Somalia

[Mac]

I don't mean to be offending or trolling, but isn't Somalia anarchist? They have no government. Is there something that separates them from real anarchy, like how the soviet union isn't really communist?

[Mac]

I probably should have posted this in the learning section. Oops.

[Smyg]

My spider sense is tingling.

Edit: *Sigh* To elaborate, this question is so basic it shouldn't be asked. I'll just go ahead and quote V for fun and profit.


Evey: All this riot and uproar, V... is this Anarchy? Is this the Land of Do-As-You-Please?

V: No. This is only the land of take-what-you-want. Anarchy means 'without leaders', not 'without order'. With anarchy comes an age of ordnung, of true order, which is to say voluntary order... this age of ordnung will begin when the mad and incoherent cycle of verwirrung that these bulletins reveal has run its course... This is not anarchy, Evey. This is chaos.

[Tommy4ever]

Anarchism is the absence of all authority. This requires the breaking down of all hierarchial social structures - the state and the class system being the most important.

The breaking down of the state but the failure to break down the class system (as in Somalia) leads to barbarism. According to Anarchists it is impossible to break down the class system whilst the state still exists.

[Mac]

Smyg, excuse my stupidity, but you don't have to be an arse.

[Tommy4ever]

I thought it wasn't a stupid question at all. Most people think anarchy just means no government.

[Wired]

Also, just because parts of Somalia dont have any officially recognized government does not mean that they do not have government.
Just because the media dont call these institutions "government" doesnt mean that they arent a form of government.

Somalia isnt in the state it is because of lack of government. Its in the state it is because theres loads of would-be-governments trying to destroy each other for supremacy.

[rednordman]

Agreed with Tommy4ever. Its now very easy for people to falsely cite somalia as an example of living anarchism. Even as a opponent of anarchism, I believe this is a very harsh and misguided thing to do.

[L'horlage]

As much as stalinists claim it was indeed an anarchist society, i think i speak for most syndicalists when i say that it was far from ideal. Capitalism still existed, but in deregulated form, we all know how that did wonders for Pinochet's Chile. Politically, im no expert but from my understanding is that most governance was localized in the form of a bunch of tribes and warlords. Having everything privatized is not what we want and is counter-productive to our cause. Hope that answers your question :)

[Susurrus]

My spider sense is tingling.

Edit: *Sigh* To elaborate, this question is so basic it shouldn't be asked. I'll just go ahead and quote V for fun and profit.

Ah, the quote that got me into politics:tt1:

A lot of anarcho-capitalists are trying to argue that somalia is in a state of anarchy, and that this has been economically prosperous for it, so I hear. So I guess it's that kind of anarchy...

[Wired]

A lot of anarcho-capitalists are trying to argue that somalia is in a state of anarchy, and that this has been economically prosperous for it, so I hear. So I guess it's that kind of anarchy...

Anarcho-capitalism isnt real anarchism to begin with.

[Dr Mindbender]

My understanding is that Somalia has descended into a state of tribalism. There is nothing progressive or egalitarian about it. Things would be just great if there was an organised united effort by the people to rebuild the country unfortunately gang leaders are seizing all of the foreign aid for their own benefit which is why nothing is getting through to people on the ground, hence they are now having a famine.

[Tim Cornelis]

By the way, since 2006 Somalia has a central government once more, so it's not even stateless anymore.

[Smyg]

In addition to the tribalism, quite a lot of the country is under control of islamist insurgents. Hint hint, this isn't anarchy.

[Dr Mindbender]

Its little publicised but Belgium was under similar circumstances


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgium

he Parliamentary elections in Belgium on 13 June 2010 saw the Flemish nationalist N-VA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Flemish_Alliance) become the largest party in Flanders, and the Socialist Party PS the largest party in Wallonia.[43] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgium#cite_note-43) Belgium has since then been governed by Leterme's caretaker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caretaker_government) government awaiting the end of the currently deadlocked negotiations for formation of a new government (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%932011_Belgian_government_formation). On 29 March 2011 this equaled the world record for the elapsed time without an official government, previously held by war-torn Iraq (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq). As this time increases to more than a year, the general understanding that the incumbent will merely continue existing and perform only urgent business becomes increasingly questioned.[44] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgium#cite_note-44)

[Luc]

Can't forget about Somaliland.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somaliland

[Forward Union]

I don't mean to be offending or trolling, but isn't Somalia anarchist? They have no government. Is there something that separates them from real anarchy, like how the soviet union isn't really communist?

Which part of it? The local warlord dictatorships? The State which runs the south of the country? or perhaps you mean the free market which deals in selling firearms, drugs and other commodities internationally. I didn't realise workers ran the means of production with a communist economic framework in any part of Somalia? where are the peoples assemblies and democratically managed armed forces?

Somalia does have a state, several of them, and numerous private business tyranny's. It's a libertarian Capitalist paradise, you can trade anything, even humans.

[Forward Union]

I thought it wasn't a stupid question at all. Most people think anarchy just means no government.

Anarchy does just mean no government, in political science anyway. I really wsh people would stop using the term, it was an insult long before it was adopted by parts of the workers movement. It sounds ridiculous, and is actually the wrong term. Anarchism however, is an actual political philosophy.

You can call total chaos "anarchy" but you can't call it "Anarchism"

[Mac]

Sorry, I didn't really know much about Somalia :blushing:

[Aspiring Humanist]

Where's the anarchist part of brutal warlords competing for power?