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bricolage
1st August 2011, 21:00
Very interesting article about Foxconns proposal to bring in one million robots. Despite it initially being linked the employee suicides I think a section later on is far more telling;

"I don't think this is a one-off. Foxconn is often seen as a bellwether of global manufacturing in China," said Alistair Thornton of IHS Global Insight, suggesting other companies would follow suit. "Workers can command higher wages and are less willing to settle for lower ones. You can no longer just double your workforce to double your output."Wages in the region have risen by around a third over the past year, experts estimate, as the proportion of young workers shrinks and their expectations rise.

Manufacturers are seeking to improve productivity, or shift production inland or overseas, as Foxconn has already done, with huge new plants in Chengdu, Chongqing and Zhengzhou and one site in Vietnam. "As labour costs rise, companies will have to invest more in automated facilities. But we shouldn't get carried away; there is still a lot of cheap labour out there," said Tom Miller, of Beijing-based economic consultancy GK-Dragonomics.

Foxconn said last year it had overhauled conditions and more than doubled salaries (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/28/foxconn-plant-china-deaths-suicides) at its vast plant in Longhua, Guangdong — from 900 to 2,000 yuan — after coming under fire over suicides by workers there.It mentions at the end that the wage increases were as a result of the suicides and I can't comment on that but was seems most important is that this is a reaction to increased wage costs and an attempt to re-assert a higher rate of profit. I'd be interested to hear some of the more economically clued up people here gives some views on this in terms of a scaling down of variable capital to be put into fixed capital and the implications of this.

A bit later on indicates that this might not actually go through;

Others questioned whether the announcement was genuine. "I am suspicious," said Liu Kaiming, of the Institute of Contemporary Observation, which supports workers in Guangdong.

"Machines can do it, but think about the cost … overall, workers are still much cheaper. This is probably just for sensational effect, [to] put pressure on workers."

Prof Huang Renmin, director of the institute of labour market research at the China Institute of Industrial Relations, agreed.

"This is the trick capitalists use to threaten workers," he said.This in itself seems very possible, similar to how the threat of privatisation can be used to force workers in public sectors to accept their lot and so forth. In this case I still think it is worth considering the severity of this, if numbers of workers can theoretically be replaced by machines is this going to become a more common way of forcing down class terms and conditions?

Essentially it is best summed up here;

"It's a positive development in that it will get rid of the really mind-numbing jobs that are done by unskilled workers and could help to improve skill levels. You still need people to manage and operate these machines," he said. "The question is, how many people are going to be laid off and are they going to be reassigned?"With this in mind if automation can both a) put workers out of jobs and b) be used as a threat to workers, could it also c) be part of a class demand in the here and now, ie. greater automation but no reduction in jobs, wages or conditions?

Original article; http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/01/foxconn-robots-replace-chinese-workers

Delenda Carthago
1st August 2011, 21:04
The automation of the production is one way road with no turning back. And I dont think its a bad thing: on the contrary, I find it exciting. Its the only way humans will abolish work and that is a undeniable term in order to achieve communism.

scarletghoul
1st August 2011, 21:12
this is interesting. with traditional commodity production you would rely on human labour to create surplus value, so the introduction of machinery would lead to a decline in the rate of profit. but i guess things like iphones are sold for much more than their objective 'exchange-value' so there would still be profit.

bricolage
1st August 2011, 21:12
The automation of the production is one way road with no turning back. And I dont think its a bad thing: on the contrary, I find it exciting. Its the only way humans will abolish work and that is a undeniable term in order to achieve communism.
I fully agree with you that as near as full automation will be integral to the abolition of work however we also have to understand the alternative role it plays here. Whilst automation under communism would not affect the living conditions of the human community, at the present it can be used to either replace workers with machines or sow in workers the fear that they are to be replaced by machines. For example I used to work at a hospital as a specimen porter picking up blood samples from clinics and taking them to a pathology lab. The task took about fifteen minutes and that was what you did all day, the same fifteen minutes. Now it is barbaric that anyone should have to spend their life living the same fifteen minutes of repeat and are we going to abolish that, fuck yeah. However at the hospital where I now work the have these tubes that shoot the samples through the air (sort of like Futurama) and in to the labs but what happened when they implemented them? Porters jobs got the axe. In this respect what would be emanicpatory under communism or whatnot is an assualt upon workers under capitalism.

Now I don't agree with those that follow from this that we should oppose any kind of technological advances under capitalism and remain static until we can restart them in some distant future. This is not going to happen and would be counter-productive. What I'm saying is that these things will go on whether we like it or not but perhaps in the here and now we can work out ways to make automation work for us as opposed to hurting us. As such as opposed to just opposing the automation of workplaces mould it into a class demand for greater automation but no reduction in workers terms and conditions.

Anyway at the end of it all I'm with Vaneigem in this vaguely-related-to-this-discussion-quote;
"One day, will we see strikers, demanding automation and a ten-hour week, choosing, instead of picketing, to make love in the factories, the offices and the culture centres? Only the planners, the managers, the union bosses and the sociologists would be surprised and worried. Not without reason; after all, their skin is at stake."

bricolage
1st August 2011, 21:16
this is interesting. with traditional commodity production you would rely on human labour to create surplus value, so the introduction of machinery would lead to a decline in the rate of profit. but i guess things like iphones are sold for much more than their objective 'exchange-value' so there would still be profit.
I suppose the problem in terms of profit comes back to that old story about Henry Ford and a union leader walking around a Ford factory. Ford, having trouble with strikes and whatnot, says to him something like "One day all these workers will be replaced by machines" to which the union leader replies "Then who will buy your cars Henry?"

Delenda Carthago
1st August 2011, 21:31
I fully agree with you that as near as full automation will be integral to the abolition of work however we also have to understand the alternative role it plays here. Whilst automation under communism would not affect the living conditions of the human community, at the present it can be used to either replace workers with machines or sow in workers the fear that they are to be replaced by machines. For example I used to work at a hospital as a specimen porter picking up blood samples from clinics and taking them to a pathology lab. The task took about fifteen minutes and that was what you did all day, the same fifteen minutes. Now it is barbaric that anyone should have to spend their life living the same fifteen minutes of repeat and are we going to abolish that, fuck yeah. However at the hospital where I now work the have these tubes that shoot the samples through the air (sort of like Futurama) and in to the labs but what happened when they implemented them? Porters jobs got the axe. In this respect what would be emanicpatory under communism or whatnot is an assualt upon workers under capitalism.

Now I don't agree with those that follow from this that we should oppose any kind of technological advances under capitalism and remain static until we can restart them in some distant future. This is not going to happen and would be counter-productive. What I'm saying is that these things will go on whether we like it or not but perhaps in the here and now we can work out ways to make automation work for us as opposed to hurting us. As such as opposed to just opposing the automation of workplaces mould it into a class demand for greater automation but no reduction in workers terms and conditions.

Anyway at the end of it all I'm with Vaneigem in this vaguely-related-to-this-discussion-quote;
"One day, will we see strikers, demanding automation and a ten-hour week, choosing, instead of picketing, to make love in the factories, the offices and the culture centres? Only the planners, the managers, the union bosses and the sociologists would be surprised and worried. Not without reason; after all, their skin is at stake."

You dont say anything that I havent already thought of. And I see where you coming from. But...

Right now, one of the biggest reasons that caused the crisis is that production automation leads to less and less jobs when more and more wealth is being producted. And as we all know, this only makes the crisis more deep. What would happen if there was no need for working class? At all.
What would be the aftermath? An economic system is like an eco system. It needs all the links of the chain, otherwise its being fucked. And this is the same thing with production under capitalism. If you dont have a working class(which is the situation that creates the overvalue), you dont have capitalism.

So there is only three ways for the capitalists. One is to let go and let communism be, a classic checkmate if you will. The second would be to destroy technology, but even if they tried to pull that off, they would still not be under the best occasions if they cant see the new miracles of technology. The third would be to eliminate everyone that is now... not useful to the system, and thats a lot, but in the end they would still end up with communism for those that they would survive.

So, the way I see it, its a dead end for capitalism. The sooner automation of production proceeds, the better for us. Thats why I m turning my main focus on things like the open source movement.

gendoikari
2nd August 2011, 00:20
Hey sweet. One step closer to the robatacized workforce.

AnonymousOne
2nd August 2011, 01:34
Luckily for Foxconn, robots don't kill themselves after being abused for days on end.

Jose Gracchus
2nd August 2011, 05:33
I fully agree with you that as near as full automation will be integral to the abolition of work however we also have to understand the alternative role it plays here. Whilst automation under communism would not affect the living conditions of the human community, at the present it can be used to either replace workers with machines or sow in workers the fear that they are to be replaced by machines.

There is also the matter of, aside from hurting wages, reducing demands, and lay-offs, of simply de-skilling labor itself, reducing its bargaining power and human dignity. Introduction of machinery to complement labor-power has always had this quality.