Why does the Nation of Islam believe that Islam is a Black Man's Religion ?

[tradeunionsupporter]

Why does the Nation of Islam believe that Islam is a Black Man's Religion ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_of_Islam

[ComradeMan]

Why does the Nation of Islam believe that Islam is a Black Man's Religion ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_of_Islam

Because they are crazy and delusional as well as anti-semitic and racist.

[Dr Mindbender]

First and foremost- i'd say its a reaction to the eurocentricism of American christianity. Depictions of the white Jesus, biblical anti black racism about the mark of Cain etc.

Secondly and perhaps for a more removed reason it draws its rationale from the idea that mankind came from the black race ie. Africa, therefore blacks are God's favoured people because they 'came first'.

[ComradeMan]

biblical anti black racism about the mark of Cain etc..

Anti-black racism in the Bible? Just where--- the people of Cain were perhaps Afghanistan if they can even be located, nothing to do with Africa implicity, unlike the Queen of Sheba. I'm curious to know if that is another thing the fundies state in the US?

[Nox]

Islam is a black religion? That's not all thats supposedly black...

Take a look at this:

HUAr7ydeEf4

EDIT: Silly religious extremists such as the Nation of Islam and the guys in this video really are a shame to the Black nationalist cause, and give people totally the wrong idea about Black nationalism.

[Dr Mindbender]

Anti-black racism in the Bible? Just where--- the people of Cain were perhaps Afghanistan if they can even be located, nothing to do with Africa implicity, unlike the Queen of Sheba. I'm curious to know if that is another thing the fundies state in the US?
I forget where exactly, (its in the story about how Satan promised to save every soul before he was thrown from heaven) but theres an old testament story where those who sided with Jesus went on to become white people, those who sided with the devil went on to become demons and those who remained in between went on to become black people (hence they were marked).

[ComradeMan]

I forget where exactly, (its in the story about how Satan promised to save every soul before he was thrown from heaven) but theres an old testament story where those who sided with Jesus went on to become white people, those who sided with the devil went on to become demons and those who remained in between went on to become black people (hence they were marked).

Jesus in the Old Testament? I don't think so somehow. Have you got a Biblical source for this because this stinks of some kind of bullshit promoted by fanatics and racists rather than an actual Biblical reference. I'm not doubting your sincerity by the way, just that this sounds like some crazy stuff.

In answer to any "Christian" who would try to use scripture to defend racism, Galatians 3:28: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus."
(Non vi è più Giudeo nè Greco, non vi è schiavo nè libero, non maschio o femmina, ma tutti voi siete uno solo in Cristo Gesù.)

[Smyg]

Jesus in the Old Testament? I don't think so somehow. Have you got a Biblical source for this because this stinks of some kind of bullshit promoted by fanatics and racists rather than an actual Biblical reference. I'm not doubting your sincerity by the way, just that this sounds like some crazy stuff.


Sure sounds more like the scriptures of some cult, such as the Mormons or the Jehova's.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Jesus in the Old Testament? I don't think so somehow. Have you got a Biblical source for this because this stinks of some kind of bullshit promoted by fanatics and racists rather than an actual Biblical reference. I'm not doubting your sincerity by the way, just that this sounds like some crazy stuff.

In answer to any "Christian" who would try to use scripture to defend racism, Galatians 3:28: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus."
(Non vi è più Giudeo nè Greco, non vi è schiavo nè libero, non maschio o femmina, ma tutti voi siete uno solo in Cristo Gesù.)

Yeah, Christ doesn't seem too big on the whole racism thing. Jesus prefers you to hate those closer to you:

"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." -- Luke 14:26

[Zealot]

I forget where exactly, (its in the story about how Satan promised to save every soul before he was thrown from heaven) but theres an old testament story where those who sided with Jesus went on to become white people, those who sided with the devil went on to become demons and those who remained in between went on to become black people (hence they were marked).

You may be referring to the so called "Curse of Ham", which was sometimes interpreted with a racist slant and often used to justify slavery during the 19th century.

NOI seems to be a useless remnant from the black civil rights movement, formed mainly as a reaction to the racism from that time. In one interview Louis Farrakhan claimed that it wasn't a black man's religion but that they were the ones who needed help most. He then went on to quote Jesus when he said that he didn't come for gentiles but for the house of israel and later extended his "salvation" to gentiles as well. Again, he talks a lot of BS but he just has a good command of words.

[Jimmie Higgins]

First and foremost- i'd say its a reaction to the eurocentricism of American christianity. More than that, Christianity was and still is largely racially segregated in the US. It was the religion used also to justify slavery (in the south, it was also the base of abolitionist organizing in the north) and then support the "natural" state of segregation and Jim-Crow. Christianity was forced on African slaves in the US and so the NOI's rejection of it is along the same cultural-nationalist logic of the NOI rejecting the names given to black slaves by the slave-owners (often their own name).

Also, more specifically for the time that the NOI was developing, the official Southern black elite was largely and had been largely oriented around the christian churches so part of rejecting Christianity was a rejection of the traditional Jim-Crow black leadership who were accommodationist and tied to white patrons and rural white elites by and large. The Civil Rights movement, as it developed, also came up against this old leadership and had to push them aside leading to new figureheads and new church leadership which was more confrontational and more independent of (rural southern) white elites.

This legacy of segregation and development of new church leadership during the civil rights struggle is why popular black christian churches now have people like Rev. Wright saying America is racist and "God Damn America" while white Christian evangelical churches say "Jesus is a blond white capitalist who loved low taxes".

[ComradeMan]

Yeah, Christ doesn't seem too big on the whole racism thing. Jesus prefers you to hate those closer to you:

"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." -- Luke 14:26

What do you think the interpretation of that, along with Matthew 10:37, actually is?

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

I forget where exactly, (its in the story about how Satan promised to save every soul before he was thrown from heaven) but theres an old testament story where those who sided with Jesus went on to become white people, those who sided with the devil went on to become demons and those who remained in between went on to become black people (hence they were marked).


Jesus in the Old Testament? I don't think so somehow. Have you got a Biblical source for this because this stinks of some kind of bullshit promoted by fanatics and racists rather than an actual Biblical reference. I'm not doubting your sincerity by the way, just that this sounds like some crazy stuff.

In answer to any "Christian" who would try to use scripture to defend racism, Galatians 3:28: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus."
(Non vi è più Giudeo nè Greco, non vi è schiavo nè libero, non maschio o femmina, ma tutti voi siete uno solo in Cristo Gesù.)


You are BOTH right. Christianity was not an explicitly racist religion, but the legion of Ham WAS used as a pretext for racism. Much like the call for religious war in Islam in defense of the faith is misused to justify the killing of civilians by terrorists.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

What do you think the interpretation of that, along with Matthew 10:37, actually is?

It seems pretty damn clear to me; Jesus (and by extension, God) is more important than friends and kin. Which is ludicrous, of course.

[ComradeMan]

It seems pretty damn clear to me; Jesus (and by extension, God) is more important than friends and kin. Which is ludicrous, of course.

Is it not perhaps a hyperbolic statement referring of the "cost" of becoming a follower of Jesus within the context of the time, similar to the idea continued in Luke 14:33 "In the same way, any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple." ?

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Is it not perhaps a hyperbolic statement referring of the "cost" of becoming a follower of Jesus within the context of the time, similar to the idea continued in Luke 14:33 "In the same way, any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple." ?

Sure, but none of us are living in the 1st century - we live in the 21st century - which is reason enough to ignore the Bible as any kind of guide to life.

[Viet Minh]

Its strange, Christianity is blamed for slavery in America (with good reason in many ways) and for some reason they also seem to blame the jews (http://www.h-net.org/~antis/papers/occasional.papers.html), and yet ignore Arab Muslim slavery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery#Europe) which even continues to this day (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery#Present_day). They don't even acnowledge the fact that the prophet himself kept slaves, although in fairness he freed many slaves as well.

[RGacky3]

but theres an old testament story where those who sided with Jesus went on to become white people, those who sided with the devil went on to become demons and those who remained in between went on to become black people (hence they were marked).

Thats not in the bible.

As for the curse of ham, its a long long long long stretch to make that about race, or even any thing more than Noah getting pissed his grandson saw him naked, and it was'nt actually a curse, like a magical curse, people say cursed be you if they are pissed.

trying to make that into a race thing makes no sense. Now they might do it, but if you can make that into a race thing you can make anything into it.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Its strange, Christianity is blamed for slavery in America (with good reason in many ways) and for some reason they also seem to blame the jews (http://www.h-net.org/%7Eantis/papers/occasional.papers.html), and yet ignore Arab Muslim slavery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery#Europe) which even continues to this day (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery#Present_day). They don't even acnowledge the fact that the prophet himself kept slaves, although in fairness he freed many slaves as well.I don't think too many people blame slavery on Christianity in the US. In Spanish colonies Christianity was used as an excuse to enslave native Americans and Africans, in the US South, slavowners used Christianity to make slavery seem "natural". But Abolitionists and Slaves themselves used Christianity to argue that slavery was "unnatural" (I guess pro or anti-Christian is the better description than natural or unnatural) or would be overcome, respectively.

In other words, religion is a surface issues that reflects more underlying material issues.

Even the NOI to my knowledge doesn't "blame Christianity" for slavery or racism, they blame white slave-masters for forcing Africans and US blacks to adopt an "alien" religion (which is true) one that was then used to justify slavery and promote a white version of Jesus and biblical people in a way to make racial inequality seem like it was part of God's will (also correct). It's just beyond these observations that the NOI draws strange conclusions about why this happened and so on.

[Viet Minh]

I don't think too many people blame slavery on Christianity in the US. In Spanish colonies Christianity was used as an excuse to enslave native Americans and Africans, in the US South, slavowners used Christianity to make slavery seem "natural". But Abolitionists and Slaves themselves used Christianity to argue that slavery was "unnatural" (I guess pro or anti-Christian is the better description than natural or unnatural) or would be overcome, respectively.

In other words, religion is a surface issues that reflects more underlying material issues.

Even the NOI to my knowledge doesn't "blame Christianity" for slavery or racism, they blame white slave-masters for forcing Africans and US blacks to adopt an "alien" religion (which is true) one that was then used to justify slavery and promote a white version of Jesus and biblical people in a way to make racial inequality seem like it was part of God's will (also correct). It's just beyond these observations that the NOI draws strange conclusions about why this happened and so on.

I'm not blaming Christianity per se, in its doctrine it is no less progressive than most other religions. However before and during the times of slavery the established christian churches held a huge amount of power and authority, and its no great leap to imagine that religious leaders who were willing to burn or drown suspected witches were equally indifferent to 'heathen' tribes in africa. Its not entirely coincidental that the begining of the transatlantic slave trade comes around the time of the inquisition either.

[#FF0000]

Islam is a black religion? That's not all thats supposedly black...

Take a look at this:

HUAr7ydeEf4

EDIT: Silly religious extremists such as the Nation of Islam and the guys in this video really are a shame to the Black nationalist cause, and give people totally the wrong idea about Black nationalism.

Ahahaha. These guys aren't NOI. They're the Isrealites. Me and my brother actually ran into them when we went to the city last weekend.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Even the NOI to my knowledge doesn't "blame Christianity" for slavery or racism, they blame white slave-masters for forcing Africans and US blacks to adopt an "alien" religion (which is true) one that was then used to justify slavery and promote a white version of Jesus and biblical people in a way to make racial inequality seem like it was part of God's will (also correct). It's just beyond these observations that the NOI draws strange conclusions about why this happened and so on.

I think the important point is that Islam no more anti-slavery than Christianity is.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I'm not blaming Christianity per se, in its doctrine it is no less progressive than most other religions. However before and during the times of slavery the established christian churches held a huge amount of power and authority, and its no great leap to imagine that religious leaders who were willing to burn or drown suspected witches were equally indifferent to 'heathen' tribes in africa. Its not entirely coincidental that the begining of the transatlantic slave trade comes around the time of the inquisition either.I didn't mean you, I was talking about historically in the context of why what was basically a decedent of Garvyism in the US (the Nation of Islam) rejected Christianity as a false religion for black people. They don't blame Christianity, they blamed white people and they saw Christianity as being a tool of white people to create black dependency on white ideas and views of the world.

As to your points above - I don't think it was "indifference" at play in either example of repression - though I do think the two examples have different historical roots. First of all the Roman Church developed a doctrine which justified the slave trade as well as the robbery of non-christian lands in theological terms. Christianity wasn't the cause, but as an institution built to protect the feudal order, Christianity developed all sorts of ideological/theological justifications for everything from serfdom to slavery and conquest.

In much the same way, non-Christians engaged in the slave trade had to create their own justifications for these practices. So in Industrial England the justifications for imperialism and conquest became "civilization" and "white man's burden". In the US where slavery was a huge ideological problem for a country founded on "All men are created equal" - a justification had to be found that worked within this ideological construct of "natural rights" and so the Slave-owners developed racist justifications: basically arguing that blacks were "naturally" inferior and deficient and needed the paternalism of rich whites to take care of them. But I don't think we'd argue that "civilization" or "democracy" are the real causes of racism and slavery... just used to justify it.


I think the important point is that Islam no more anti-slavery than Christianity is. Well I'm not a religious person, so obviously I don't think switching from one religion (that is associated with an oppressor) to another religion will do anything about getting rid of oppression in a meaningful way. And yes, historically, Islam and Christianity have been used by ruling classes to justify all sorts of things. But in the western hemisphere, Islam has never really been connected as intimately with racism and slavery as Christianity has and so I can understand why people might be attracted to that in the US as an alternative. Add to that rising national liberation movements in Africa and the Middle East at the time that the NOI was becoming popular along with some domestic "Back to Africa" cultural ideas and it makes total sense to me why some people would be attracted to Islam as an alternative at that time in US history.

[Dzerzhinsky's Ghost]

HUAr7ydeEf4


This is the greatest video on Youtube, I had no idea Tom Jones was secretly a brotha. :lol:

[#FF0000]

This is the greatest video on Youtube, I had no idea Tom Jones was secretly a brotha. :lol:

And you just look foolish for not knowing about Shakespeare :mellow:

[noble brown]

Lets keep in mind that the noi is an american social phenom. It started at a time when the black community was looking for empowerment and fire was fought with fire. Lets keep in mind that the general muslim community don't believe the same shit as the noi. Also when malcom x Travelled to mecca he realized that the noi's islam was waayy different then the rest of the muslim worlds islam. The noi is a throwback to a slightly different era. Their justifications for their racism is pretty complex and convoluted but its not as absolute as it appears. There are white who consider themselves noi. Go figure

[Dzerzhinsky's Ghost]

Lets keep in mind that the noi is an american social phenom. It started at a time when the black community was looking for empowerment and fire was fought with fire. Lets keep in mind that the general muslim community don't believe the same shit as the noi. Also when malcom x Travelled to mecca he realized that the noi's islam was waayy different then the rest of the muslim worlds islam. The noi is a throwback to a slightly different era. Their justifications for their racism is pretty complex and convoluted but its not as absolute as it appears. There are white who consider themselves noi. Go figure

I don't think the NOI could be called Islam(ic) at all. What do all Muslims regardless of whether you're Sunni, Shi'a, Sufi, Qur'anist, etc. believe? Take the shahadah for the prime example of this, "I believe there is no God but God and Muhammad is His messenger." The majority of the teachings of the NOI contradict the basic creed of Islam thus I believe them to be un-Islamic, they are something else, something different. In the same way the Baha'i came out of Islam but are different and seperate. Past this, I agree with the rest of your statements. I even think there is a hadith in which the Prophet stated blatantly that he was against racism and that it was sinful. Anyone who has read al-Qur'an can see that it's not intended for the black man, the white man or the Arab but for all people, of all nations, for all time. I'm not to well versed on the teachings of the NOI except what I have read and have heard from others whom were formerly apart of the NOI.


And you just look foolish for not knowing about Shakespeare :mellow:

Oh, I know Shakespeare was black I mean, come on, Othello?

Seriously though, I would have probably reacted the same way that other dude did.

[noble brown]

I agree n.o.I cant really be called islamic. But this is part of the packaging that it came in. It has become a very esoteric thing I've spoken to a handful of them and picked their brains too. One is even a communist now. They were misled

[Blackburn]

Guys, guys, guys.

There is a simple rule of thumb when it comes to religion.

If the religion or denomination was constructed in the United States of America then it's 'wacka doo'.

Crazy. Insane. Fruity.

Prove me wrong folks! Name one religion, constructed by modern America that is not crazy insane??

[Viet Minh]

Guys, guys, guys.

There is a simple rule of thumb when it comes to religion.

If the religion or denomination was constructed in the United States of America then it's 'wacka doo'.

Crazy. Insane. Fruity.

Prove me wrong folks! Name one religion, constructed by modern America that is not crazy insane??

Jedi'ism and Norrisism, there's two! :)

[ComradeMan]

Guys, guys, guys.

There is a simple rule of thumb when it comes to religion.

If the religion or denomination was constructed in the United States of America then it's 'wacka doo'.

Crazy. Insane. Fruity.

Prove me wrong folks! Name one religion, constructed by modern America that is not crazy insane??

Okay, non-American wacka doo religion = Juche!