The sanity of DPRK propoganda

[Aspiring Humanist]

ujtp-70zQME

honestly what the hell

[Morgenstern]

You've never shot explosive pencils from a rocket launcher before?

[thesadmafioso]

I guess the lesson to be taken from this is to make sure to do your math for dear leader, you never know when you may need to use it to coordinate pencil artillery against an American invasion.

[Commissar Rykov]

When you can't afford missiles then pencils will do! Dear Leader will bless them with the sweat from his own brow thus making them weapons of mass destruction. Just like how he feeds the whole population through his almighty willpower alone! Famines are Western Imperialist Dogmatic Propaganda!:laugh:

[Rss]

You rage over this but racist stereotypes in GI Joe are just "kids' cartoon, stop being so serious"?

Ok then.

[Valdemar]

Very good cartoon, with nice story. For those like you, who don't understand, he was doing homework and felt asleep, during his sleep he was dreaming about DEFENDING its Country&Life&Socialism against Imperialist USA (who wants to conquer and exploit), so he was dreaming about Defending his country against Aggressors! He then woke up, and throe dream he learned about degrees and usefulness of knowledge about degrees, and he shares his new knowledge with his schoolmates.

So what is Insane here ? Comrade from the imperialist west, did you ever thought about sanity of West-USA Propaganda machine ?
DPRK Propaganda is plain and simple, its sincere and not unlike USA propaganda which is subtile.

Sanity of USA propaganda, I've played games where I Killed Germans-Natzis (CoD and others), Soviets-Russians, Chinese, Yugoslavians-Serbs (SoF), Italians, Vietnamese and others in various games. In those games USA were mighty liberators, helpers, friends of oppressed and etc. also, we must not overlook gore in games, which are nothing if you compare it with this cartoon, and also we must not overlook that most of teen aged are playing those games. So what about Sanity of Western Propaganda ?

Look at movies for fk sake from holyfkingwood, where you have constant stories about good USA presidents who sacrifice for USA people, who save the world or about evil Russians or Chinese, Vietnamese, Yugoslavians who want to nuke the world. Or about brave USA soldiers fight for freedom in Afghanistan, Iraq....
I could go on and on...about USA saving earth with nukes against meteor...drunk Russian on board...crazy Canadians wanting to nuke one of the cities, or crazy Yugoslavians wanting to nuke new york.

So my western comrade, what about sanity of Western Imperialist propaganda ?

Do you know how many attrocites did USA made around the world, do you know what they did to DRPK people? If you do not, that's propaganda, and if you do know, I assume you do not know everything, or you would not be so biased. So please fk-off with your Slander about DRPK propaganda.

Sweep under the your own carpet first. Or better one, I do not know if I'm correct and I will try to paraphrase...." You have cod in your own eye, which hinders your sight, yet you want to pull my out (and you can damage my eye, because you do not see OK, first pull your own out)

[RGacky3]

Saying "Well AMMMMERRIICCAAA Does propeganda toooo." is not a defense.

And yes, the US did to atrocities againts the North Korean people, but its peanuts compared to what THE DRPK did to its own people.

[Susurrus]

The reality: "Oh, it looks like he's fallen asleep. I'll just close his book for him... what's this he's drawn? US?!?!? TRAITOR!!!!! TO THE RE-EDUCATION CAMP!!!"

[Skooma Addict]

Sanity of USA propaganda, I've played games where I Killed Germans-Natzis (CoD and others), Soviets-Russians, Chinese, Yugoslavians-Serbs (SoF), Italians, Vietnamese and others in various games. In those games USA were mighty liberators, helpers, friends of oppressed and etc. also, we must not overlook gore in games, which are nothing if you compare it with this cartoon, and also we must not overlook that most of teen aged are playing those games. So what about Sanity of Western Propaganda ?Are you saying that Call of Duty is actually U.S. propaganda?

[Rafiq]

Blah Blah Blah "DPRK propaganda isn't as humane and sane as what I except"

Who gives a fuck? Do you really have high standards for DPRK's cartoons? Is this something you would not expect out of shitty juche?

"oh I'm appalled at this".... Well I'm not.

Typical Liberalism.

[Rafiq]

Are you saying that Call of Duty is Actually U.S. propaganda?

Are you saying it isn't?

Call of Duty gets funding from the military, idiot!

[Susurrus]

So fighting nazis is a bad thing now?

[Nox]

Are you saying that Call of Duty is actually U.S. propaganda?


Well, the fact that each American soldier kills about 3240924583464230636 Nazis/Russians/Arabs kind of gives the impression of American military superiority.

[Ingraham Effingham]

So fighting nazis is a bad thing now?

No, but glorifying enlistment in a corrupted armed forces, in a package geared toward teenagers is.

[Valdemar]

Saying "Well AMMMMERRIICCAAA Does propeganda toooo." is not a defense.

And yes, the US did to atrocities againts the North Korean people, but its peanuts compared to what THE DRPK did to its own people.

I won't even try to put reason into your head, you are brainwashed, and great example of Indoctrination of the west propaganda machine.
And USA did atrocites over whole globe, and yet we don't see so many threads trashing USA, but RevLeft is full of thread trashing DRPK and who trash it from western-liberal borgiese point of view and whose source of information of DRPK is from capitalist west. Thats my problem, and thats problem of whole RevLeft as community and forum.

I did not see thread about Sanity of Western Propaganda...get my point?

[ComradeMan]

Do you really expect sanity from the insane?

[OhYesIdid]

Oh, hey, another Cracked Fiend. Hello over there, how's it hanging?

[Aspiring Humanist]

Blah Blah Blah "DPRK propaganda isn't as humane and sane as what I except"

Who gives a fuck? Do you really have high standards for DPRK's cartoons? Is this something you would not expect out of shitty juche?

"oh I'm appalled at this".... Well I'm not.

Typical Liberalism.

Holy fucking shit dude you need to relax, not everyones out to get you

[Aspiring Humanist]

Oh, hey, another Cracked Fiend. Hello over there, how's it hanging?

Lol great how you doin

[OhYesIdid]

Lol great how you doin

fine, though Doctorow accuses it of being a "content farm." This saddens me...have you seen the one with the lady that swings babies around? craaazy

[Aspiring Humanist]

fine, though Doctorow accuses it of being a "content farm." This saddens me...have you seen the one with the lady that swings babies around? craaazy

I read it but i didnt see the video, looks fake though. I dont give a fuck what anyone says cracked is hilarious

[ComradeMan]

x-FQ_kHPqk4

ZeA52LERyJA

[Commissar Rykov]

The reality: "Oh, it looks like he's fallen asleep. I'll just close his book for him... what's this he's drawn? US?!?!? TRAITOR!!!!! TO THE RE-EDUCATION CAMP!!!"
Indeed, that or shoot him on the spot for trying to create a paper portal for the US to invade through.

[DinodudeEpic]

Are you saying it isn't?

Call of Duty gets funding from the military, idiot!

Call of Duty is NOT funded by the military, you're the idiot.

It is made by private corporations that have no funding from the military. In fact, the first Call of Duty game was one of the first FPSes that had a Russian Campaign/other nations beside America.

There are games funded by the military, but they are NOT successful.

Maybe it is biased towards America since it is made by a large American corporation, but the military has nothing to do with the game.



Well, the fact that each American soldier kills about 3240924583464230636 Nazis/Russians/Arabs kind of gives the impression of American military superiority.

That is due to the game mechanics, which makes the game very easy compared to real military duty. There is also the fact that the WW2 call of duty games have a Russian Campaign where you see Soviets killing tons of Nazis. Same for Britain. Arabs play a VERY minor role in the CoD series. (Half of CoD 4. One mission in Modern Warfail 2.) Russians were mostly enemies in the non-ww2 shooters. But, the recent Call of Duty games are biased towards the Americans. (For obviously reasons, market appeal, corporations, nationality of the company.)

[ComradeMan]

FFS--- I am about to lose my patience. This is a debate about serious world issues and the plight of people who not so long ago were starving to death and perhaps forced into doing God knows what to stay alive and the whole fucking thread turns into an asinine debate about computer games. I'm glad to see the leftists here basing their politics on Call of Duty.

I really am lost for words...

[Rss]

Saying "Well AMMMMERRIICCAAA Does propeganda toooo." is not a defense.

And yes, the US did to atrocities againts the North Korean people, but its peanuts compared to what THE DRPK did to its own people.

Belittling a genocide of over 1.5 million koreans, no wonder you are restricted.

@Valdemar: Do you seriously expect something better from here? Bleeding heart liberals who moan for revolution and bail out at first opporturnity if bottomless economic prosperity isn't immediate. Then they get paid good moneeeh abroad for writing best-selling "How I escaped from Communut Whateverland: The Great Escape to Capitalist Prosperity".

wow that rant wasnt ot

[ComradeMan]

Valdemar: Do you seriously expect something better from here? Bleeding heart liberals who moan for revolution and bail out at first opporturnity if bottomless economic prosperity isn't immediate. Then they get paid good moneeeh abroad for writing best-selling "How I escaped from Communut Whateverland: The Great Escape to Capitalist Prosperity".

wow that rant wasnt ot

Oh look^^^^^ a giant strawman from Mr Revolution himself.

[Susurrus]

I can kind of see the point when people say CoD is propagandistic, when they invade Cuba and try to kill Fidel Castro

but also the Soviet campaigns are very well done, showing the spirit of the Russian people as well as atrocities committed by both sides.

Black Ops also provides a look into the sadistic ruthlessness of America during the Cold War, though still making them the good guys for some reason.

I've also heard that Modern Warfare 1 the Marines are portrayed as screwing things up with their short-sighted self-righteousness and the SAS are portrayed as morally questionable psychotic thugs. I haven't looked into it, though, and this may be wrongs.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

I wish that's how we learned about angles here, all we got is shitty Sesame Street.

[DinodudeEpic]

FFS--- I am about to lose my patience. This is a debate about serious world issues and the plight of people who not so long ago were starving to death and perhaps forced into doing God knows what to stay alive and the whole fucking thread turns into an asinine debate about computer games. I'm glad to see the leftists here basing their politics on Call of Duty.

I really am lost for words...

I just saw something really bullshit, and I just had to debunk it...

As for North Korean Propaganda, it is obvious that it is stupid as hell. Maybe even stupider then Faux News. The difference is that the STATE is broadcasting the bullshit. That's right, the government in North Korea is making it's people even stupider then they were before.

Also, I have a feeling the Regime got it's instructions from the Imperial Japanese that it overthrew....

[Valdemar]

FFS--- I am about to lose my patience. This is a debate about serious world issues and the plight of people who not so long ago were starving to death and perhaps forced into doing God knows what to stay alive and the whole fucking thread turns into an asinine debate about computer games. I'm glad to see the leftists here basing their politics on Call of Duty.

I really am lost for words...

There is no doubt that there was starvation aka famine, but you must ask yourself what is the reason?
One of the reasons is due SU collapse...
And it did not turn into debate about computer games, but how western propaganda is more successful, subtitle and powerful then DPRK. They warp it in movies, games etc. And no one is saying about it a thing...but Everyone is trashing DPRK.

Its not important if it is funded or not by military, like Noam said, in west, people enforce self censorship, if you are making product you are making it that it will be appealing to audience so you can earn money. And we all know fkingholywood is in direct pact with USA army. I've listen to many journalist who said how western colleges do not write truth, because they are afraid that they will lose job or get sanctioned...

Its not just Cod, SoF, Battlefield etc.
Sniper Elite....

http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes/empire/2010/12/2010121681345363793.html

About movies...like I said, Chinese terrorist, Cambodia, soviet-Russian, Yugoslavian, Arabs...USA President saving planet, sacrificing itself to save people. USA saving earth from comet-meteor with nuclear weapons, Thanks Ghod they have it...Oh and IRON MAN! Its all over TV! Imagine what impact does it have.
Or music, which is sponsored by the west, its all bout Money, Girls, Smex...If Someone makes music which is not in favor of capitalist west, they got banned (Lowkey). That's the world we live in! That's we must discus, and not trash some DPRK when there is so giant enemy with such superb propaganda.

And again, some guy makes thread: "The sanity of DPRK propaganda"; What about Sanity of Western Propaganda!?
They tell us Gadafi is killing people, we must stop it, people believe. They say Iraq has got biological weapon and nuclear and what not, West invades?! Bombing Yemen with drones, ATM saying its Al-Kaida!? Making games where you kill around world for peace and freedom, making ludicrous movies about saving earth etc etc etc.

That's my problem with thread "Sanity of DPRK propaganda" or any other thread Trashing DPRK, China, Cuba, Iran, Venezuela, ...

Here is song for everyone, so you can chill out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmBnvajSfWU
Every day USA it is Terrorism...sadly Some do not know and are so indoctrinated and brainwashed.

[Ingraham Effingham]

Valdemar, i totally understand where you are coming from, about western invasive propaganda.

But you simply can't use it to defend Kim's actions in NK.

[Valdemar]

Valdemar, I totally understand where you are coming from, about western invasive propaganda.

But you simply can't use it to defend Kim's actions in NK.

Thanks for your understanding, but frankly it may sound i defend it or something, but I don't defend it, I'm saying that I do not know what is happening there, and there is no way I can trust some NGO about situation in Korea.
I don't like when people trash it or its propaganda (like this cartoon) when in fact Western Propaganda is even more intensive and even more Insane, yet no one comments that. No one is talking about USA bombing Yemen atm, there are people who support intervention in Libya, believing western propaganda that they are saving people, see the power of western propaganda. There are no threads about USA doctors sent to Japan after Abomb, which are not sent to heal but study effects and were forbidden to help. There are no threads about USA wanting to nuke china and Korea during Korean Conflict, there is no thread about how UN+USA attacked North Korea and dropped more bomb on it then in whole pacific campaign during WW2 leveling DRPK infrastructre to the ground. There are no threads about USA using white phosphorus on Germans or using biological weapons in NK conflict. There are no threads about USA bombing hospitals and TV stations in Libya or when that happened in Ex-Yugoslavia. There are no threads about USA booming Vietnam and Cambodia and being partly guild for mass starvation, there are no threads about USA involvement in Chile or Gentleman, there are no threads how USA brought democracy to IRAQ yet has forbidden Sadams party to participate, and banned it etc. etc.

And that's propaganda power.
Its so giant mechanism that it is hard to explain or understand!
Did you Watched Naomi Klain's Shock doctrine...there are great examples of USA involvement in propaganda, yet only fraction of it.

All I can see trashing China, Cuba, DPRK, SU etc.....

[Apoi_Viitor]

I don't like when people trash it or its propaganda (like this cartoon) when in fact Western Propaganda is even more intensive and even more Insane, yet no one comments that.

I think a lot of it could be explained by the fact that there should be general consensus concerning those issues. Imagine how boring the board would be If we had numerous discussions on whether or not we support US imperialism, etc. Every post would just be "I don't support the US' actions..."

[RGacky3]

Belittling a genocide of over 1.5 million koreans, no wonder you are restricted.


I never belittled it, you are belittling the systematic oppression and murder of the North Korean people under the current government.


Its not important if it is funded or not by military, like Noam said, in west, people enforce self censorship, if you are making product you are making it that it will be appealing to audience so you can earn money. And we all know fkingholywood is in direct pact with USA army. I've listen to many journalist who said how western colleges do not write truth, because they are afraid that they will lose job or get sanctioned...


Its Ironic that you quote Noam Chomsky, he'd be the first one to condemn North Korea and call it the most horrific government around.


and there is no way I can trust some NGO about situation in Korea.


Well, there is evidence out there .... Denying it is as silly as denying global warming.

[Agent Equality]

Valdemar...you DO realize that the same people here who question North Korea ALSO question western countries as well, if not more, right? We hate US imperialism just as much as the North koreans do and we hate capitalism just as much as they do(or at least are told to in their propaganda, even thought the kim's love it). But there is no getting around the fact that North Korea is probably the worst, most failed communist experiment EVER. So while we ridicule the west in hundreds of other different threads, let us also ridicule this insane country and its insane ways in this one.

[caramelpence]

Do you really expect sanity from the insane?

Yeah those crazy orientals, when will they learn to be rational! It's like the Enlightenment, with all its glorious European contributors, just passed them by!

Seriously, what is so "crazy" or "insane" about this video, and what makes you think that the North Korean government is "insane"?

[black magick hustla]

i agree with caramelpence, i don't post much in threads critical of the dprk because there is always a gang of shitsticks and jokerboys making borderline racist statements about the dprk. calling them "insane", crazy etcetera and the way they make fun of kim il jung makes me think that they are making fun of kim il jung for being korean.

[ComradeMan]

Yeah those crazy orientals, when will they learn to be rational! It's like the Enlightenment, with all its glorious European contributors, just passed them by!

Seriously, what is so "crazy" or "insane" about this video, and what makes you think that the North Korean government is "insane"?

Stop building strawmen, not that you will because they are the only arguments you seem to have.

You're not seriously going to defend the Kim regime are you?

[caramelpence]

Stop building strawmen, not that you will because they are the only arguments you seem to have.

You're not seriously going to defend the Kim regime are you?

No, I don't identify with the "Kim regime". But I am interested in why you feel capable of explaining a complex set of political behaviors simply through the assertion that the government leaders are mentally ill, rather than through an analysis of class interests and the geopolitics of the region, for example. Ditto for the propaganda video. What is so "insane" about a propaganda video that plays on themes of martial strength? Most propaganda videos do that to one degree or another, including many children's tv shows.

[RGacky3]

Seriously, what is so "crazy" or "insane" about this video, and what makes you think that the North Korean government is "insane"?

Well, the concentration camps, the overwhelming totalitarian control of the populatoin, the dcestruction of all dissent, the mass propaganda, and so on.

Yeah those crazy orientals, when will they learn to be rational! It's like the Enlightenment, with all its glorious European contributors, just passed them by!


i agree with caramelpence, i don't post much in threads critical of the dprk because there is always a gang of shitsticks and jokerboys making borderline racist statements about the dprk. calling them "insane", crazy etcetera and the way they make fun of kim il jung makes me think that they are making fun of kim il jung for being korean.

Really? You think this is a race thing? If its a race thing why arn't we saying it about .... say ... south korea, or other Oriental countries.

Could it be that your the racist for assuming this has nothing to do with with actual political repression.


But I am interested in why you feel capable of explaining a complex set of political behaviors simply through the assertion that the government leaders are mentally ill, rather than through an analysis of class interests and the geopolitics of the region,

You can analyse class interest and geopolitics, but you also have to analyse the nature of the regeime, we are not saying he's mentally ill (although I would'nt be suprised), but the govenrment, its nature, has outcomes that are insane.

[ComradeMan]

Most propaganda videos do that to one degree or another, including many children's tv shows.

Propaganda for children, great idea! Where have I heard that before? "Don't Trust a Fox in a Green Meadow Or the Oath of a Jew" perhaps or the "The Poisonous Mushroom". :rolleyes:

Please, stop accusing anyone who criticises a regime that is fully worthy of critique through its own internal actions of being a racist/orientalist or western bourgeois capitalist liberal blah blah blah.... it's pathetic.

[caramelpence]

Well, the concentration camps, the overwhelming totalitarian control of the populatoin, the dcestruction of all dissent, the mass propaganda, and so on.

All good reasons to critique the DPRK as an oppressive class society, but no explanation of why the DPRK or its government is "insane". Why don't you explain exactly what you mean by insane (for example, whether you literally mean that Kim and his surrounding clique are mentally ill, or whether you mean they are insane in the sense that they are radically irrational and depart from some commonly accepted standard - in which case you need to specify what that standard actually is) and then show how the DPRK is, by that understanding, really "insane". I would also add that I don't really accept the application of totalitarianism to the DPRK. Totalitarianism is a model taken from mainstream social science that suggests highly efficient (if not absolute) control by the state, including over the economy, and an elaborate ideology that leaves no room for independent thought amongst any sectors of society. I don't find totalitarianism to be an effective way of understanding the DPRK because it ignores the highly fragmented and ad hoc nature of political decision-making, divisions within the highest levels of the regime, and highly localized (though significant) acts of dissent amongst the working population. Words like "totalitarian" and "totalitarianism" have meanings, you can't just throw them around.


Really? You think this is a race thing? If its a race thing why arn't we saying it about .... say ... south korea, or other Oriental countries.

Your arguments draw, albeit implicitly, on standard Orientalist assumptions, such as the view that non-Western peoples are inherently irrational and liable to sudden aggression. Many of the characteristics you highlighted could also be applied to Pinochet's Chile, for example - but you never hear anyone dismissing Pinochet's regime as "insane" in order to avoid an actual analysis, because that characterization is no longer so intuitively acceptable when applied to a Western society.


You can analyse class interest and geopolitics, but you also have to analyse the nature of the regeime, we are not saying he's mentally ill (although I would'nt be suprised), but the govenrment, its nature, has outcomes that are insane.

Again, according to what definition of insanity? What standard of normality? I personally find that the North Korean ruling class is not insane or irrational at all, in fact it is an extremely effective and rational ruling class, in that it has been able to maintain its power despite extreme economic challenges and has also been able to develop popular legitimacy and extract economic and strategic concessions by leveling threats against countries that are far more powerful then itself. The view that the North Korean ruling class is actually insane seems to rest not only on intuitive Orientalism but also the assumption that capitalist governments are capable of catering for the interests of the immediate producers and that there is such a thing as the interest of society as a whole. As a Marxist, however, I do not think that the interest of society as a whole exists when society is riven by class antagonisms, and nor do I think that capitalist governments are capable of serving the interests of the producers, instead, the state is necessarily geared towards preserving the interests of the ruling class, in North Korea and in every other capitalist society. On that basis I find that the rationality of the North Korean state bureaucracy should be judged according to its success in protecting its own class privileges, rather than according to whether it empowers and protects the vast majority of North Korean society, in which case the bureaucracy is very successful and rational indeed - otherwise the bureaucracy would inevitably have been toppled by one agent or another.


Propaganda for children, great idea! Where have I heard that before? "Don't Trust a Fox in a Green Meadow Or the Oath of a Jew" perhaps or the "The Poisonous Mushroom"

I didn't say propaganda for kids was a great idea, I said that the militaristic propaganda in North Korea is no less or more "insane" than similar propaganda that is used by other capitalist states, including the United States, in addition to the prevalence of militarism and nationalism amongst the non-official cultures of those other societies. Seriously, what is the real difference between North Korean propaganda, and GI Joe, which has already been mentioned? Both aid entrenched ruling classes, both are highly militaristic in content.


Please, stop accusing anyone who criticises a regime that is fully worthy of critique through its own internal actions of being a racist/orientalist or western bourgeois capitalist liberal blah blah blah.... it's pathetic.

The issue isn't whether the North Korean ruling class should be exposed - it should be, and I'm no defender of the North Korean regime. The issue is the content of criticism, and in particular whether it relies on simplistic characterizations like saying the North Korean ruling class is "insane" (with all the Orientalist assumptions that normally entails) or a nuanced analysis that begins from the standpoint of the class divisions within North Korean society and the interests of the ruling class.

[ComradeMan]

I didn't say propaganda for kids was a great idea, I said that the militaristic propaganda in North Korea is no less or more "insane" than similar propaganda that is used by other capitalist states, including the United States, in addition to the prevalence of militarism and nationalism amongst the non-official cultures of those other societies. Seriously, what is the real difference between North Korean propaganda, and GI Joe, which has already been mentioned? Both aid entrenched ruling class, both are highly militaristic in content. .

You seem to forget that no one here would defend them either.
:rolleyes:

When Kim Il died in 1994 the scenes of grief and commentary border on psychotic mass hysteria and I get the impression watching those scenes that it would not have done your health much good in the long term not to be part of the mass outpouring. The personality cult that seems to go from sublime to rificulous in an instant and the general level of propaganda on state level do not point to a sane regime or stable society.

[caramelpence]

You seem to forget that no one here would defend them either.
:rolleyes:

When Kim Il died in 1994 the scenes of grief and commentary border on psychotic mass hysteria and I get the impression watching those scenes that it would not have done your health much good in the long term not to be part of the mass outpouring. The personality cult that seems to go from sublime to rificulous in an instant and the general level of propaganda on state level do not point to a sane regime or stable society.

I know you don't defend the US, but the point is that you and others rarely dismiss the US as "insane" in the same way that you do with North Korea, even though, on this issue, the role of militaristic propaganda geared towards children, the US and North Korea exhibit important similarities.

You still have not said what exactly you mean by insane. What do you mean by insane, and, based on that understanding, what is it about the personality cult that makes the North Korean ruling class or any part of North Korean society insane? I don't see why the promotion of a personality cult makes the North Korean ruling class insane, because a personality cult is a powerful mechanism of ideological and cultural cohesion that can paper over the class divisions within a society - which goes back to what I said in my last post about the ruling class being a very efficient and rational protector of its own interests. I don't see why scenes of mass grief makes the main part of North Korean society insane - even if such grief was entirely the result of their exposure to the personality cult, it doesn't make them insane, but it's also fair to argue that the grief was a reflection of Kim Il-Sung's actual historic role as a Korean nationalist and head of a modernizing regime, and that it might also have been a distorted reflection of the problems and challenges suffered by North Korean working people in the years immediately prior to Kim Il-Sung's death, after the collapse of the USSR. To draw a comparison, there was also huge genuine mourning throughout Chinese society when Zhou Enlai died, probably more than the mourning following Mao's death later in the same year, and that was not so much to do with a personality cult, it was a reflection of widespread opposition to the negative dimensions of the Cultural Revolution, due to Zhou being perceived as a moderating influence on Mao and a source of stability, such that the mourning was a distorted form of protest. Would you also say that the outpourings of grief over Zhou Enlai were signs of mass insanity in Chinese society?

[Rafiq]

Call of Duty is NOT funded by the military, you're the idiot.

It is made by private corporations that have no funding from the military. In fact, the first Call of Duty game was one of the first FPSes that had a Russian Campaign/other nations beside America.

There are games funded by the military, but they are NOT successful.

Maybe it is biased towards America since it is made by a large American corporation, but the military has nothing to do with the game.



That is due to the game mechanics, which makes the game very easy compared to real military duty. There is also the fact that the WW2 call of duty games have a Russian Campaign where you see Soviets killing tons of Nazis. Same for Britain. Arabs play a VERY minor role in the CoD series. (Half of CoD 4. One mission in Modern Warfail 2.) Russians were mostly enemies in the non-ww2 shooters. But, the recent Call of Duty games are biased towards the Americans. (For obviously reasons, market appeal, corporations, nationality of the company.)


Okay dumbass http://hubpages.com/hub/Call-of-Duty-Commercial-Military-Recruitment



How the hell do you know if they don't?

For fucks sake, maybe if WikiLeaks tells us they did you'd be so surprised wouldn't you

[scarletghoul]

And yes, the US did to atrocities againts the North Korean people, but its peanuts compared to what THE DRPK did to its own people.
O_o this is an interesting claim. Could you uhh please tell me what the DPRK has done that is worse (or even comparable to) bombing to the ground every major town in the northern half of korea resulting in millions of civilian deaths, executing a million suspected communists in the south, installing a government in the southern half of korea composed mostly of the traitors who served in the japanese puppet government, back up by a 10000s strong military occupation that remains to this very day, imposing racist cultural values that make koreans want to look 'white' and 'beautiful' so they have eye surgery to get creepy bug eyes .. among other things..

If you knew your history, then you would know where I'm coming from.

[khad]

Also, I have a feeling the Regime got it's instructions from the Imperial Japanese that it overthrew....
See, if you talked about those precious Jews learning from the Nazi concentration camps, you'd be banned for being an anti-semite.

But say it about some non-white people, it's A-OK.

[CommieTroll]

Vlademar, I don't see why we have to support The DPRK over the USA because we are revolutionaries, you accuse everyone who disagrees with you as a ''Brainwashed, Western Imperialist Agent!!!!'' Are you actually serious?????? I don't know how any rational individual can support a militaristic, non-communistic police state that is basically ruled by a royal family. Any leftist would know how evil The North Korean government is even without ''US Propaganda''. You're accusing people of supporting the US or not openly attacking it but what you don't know is that most of RevLeft's userbase is in the US. We all know the truth about the US government so why don't you stop crying already

[ComradeMan]

See, if you talked about those precious Jews learning from the Nazi concentration camps, you'd be banned for being an anti-semite.

But say it about some non-white people, it's A-OK.

WTF? Who says it okay to start with?

What do you mean exactly about "precious" Jews learning (what?) from Nazi concentration camps?

[Apoi_Viitor]

See, if you talked about those precious Jews learning from the Nazi concentration camps, you'd be banned for being an anti-semite.

Probably not... the Israeli-Nazi comparison get thrown around a lot, and very rarely do people on revleft believe there's an anti-semitic intent behind it.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Okay dumbass http://hubpages.com/hub/Call-of-Duty-Commercial-Military-Recruitment



How the hell do you know if they don't?

For fucks sake, maybe if WikiLeaks tells us they did you'd be so surprised wouldn't you

Has anyone ever told you it's basically impossible to prove a negative?

You may disapprove of war games, but that's no reason to start baselessly accusing game developers of being in cahoots with one's ideological enemies.

[DinodudeEpic]

See, if you talked about those precious Jews learning from the Nazi concentration camps, you'd be banned for being an anti-semite.

But say it about some non-white people, it's A-OK.

Note that regimes =/= people.

Of course, the North Korean Government is an ultra-reactionary monarchist theocracy. Japan is an ultra-reactionary monarchist theocracy. (Even worse then Fascism.)

We're talking about learning from Japan's government structure and ideology. Not learning from concentration camps.

[Drosophila]

[stuff]

So both the West and the DPRK have ridiculous propaganda techniques. Where does that put the discussion again?

[L.A.P.]

Are you saying that Call of Duty is actually U.S. propaganda?

Have you seen the ridiculous plots in the Call of Duty games?

[L.A.P.]

Propaganda for children, great idea! Where have I heard that before? "Don't Trust a Fox in a Green Meadow Or the Oath of a Jew" perhaps or the "The Poisonous Mushroom". :rolleyes:

Please, stop accusing anyone who criticises a regime that is fully worthy of critique through its own internal actions of being a racist/orientalist or western bourgeois capitalist liberal blah blah blah.... it's pathetic.

He's not saying North Korea isn't worthy of critique, he's saying your critique is shit....which it is.

[Tablo]

Why such a big deal over a propaganda film? We all know it's propaganda so who cares? All countries have propaganda and all of it is ridiculous.

[ComradeMan]

He's not saying North Korea isn't worthy of critique, he's saying your critique is shit....which it is.

Yawn----- North Korea would not be able to survive if it were not for the amount of food aid it receives from China, and the "imperialists"- including the US and EU. Now, the politics behind food aid are open to debate but a regime that supports one of the most bizarre personality cults of modern times declaring how the great leader this and the great leader that yet cannot basically survive is not exactly what I would call "sane".

[caramelpence]

Yawn----- North Korea would not be able to survive if it were not for the amount of food aid it receives from China, and the "imperialists"- including the US and EU. Now, the politics behind food aid are open to debate but a regime that supports one of the most bizarre personality cults of modern times declaring how the great leader this and the great leader that yet cannot basically survive is not exactly what I would call "sane".

Again, you haven't explained why the existence of a personality cult makes an entire ruling class (or an entire society) insane by any definition. Was Argentina insane in the 1940s and 1950s because there was an elaborate personality cult around the Perons, to the extent that Eva Peron was often implicitly compared with the Virgin Mary, and was also met with mass mourning on her death? I don't really see how North Korea's dependence on food aid is related to your assertion that there is something insane about the country.

[RGacky3]

Could you uhh please tell me what the DPRK has done that is worse (or even comparable to) bombing to the ground every major town in the northern half of korea resulting in millions of civilian deaths, executing a million suspected communists in the south, installing a government in the southern half of korea composed mostly of the traitors who served in the japanese puppet government, back up by a 10000s strong military occupation that remains to this very day, imposing racist cultural values that make koreans want to look 'white' and 'beautiful' so they have eye surgery to get creepy bug eyes .. among other things..


Well, North Korea murdering thousands of intellectuals and educated peoples, priests and so on in occupied territories. Having almost 1% of the population in prisons or concentration camps (most of them political prisoners, who basically get life), where they are under foced labor, starvation (around 40% reportedly starve to death), murdered.

Taking away basically all political and personal freedoms, all freedom of speach, and freedom of information, freedom of movement and so on, and creating a class society that is worse than most Capitalist countries.

The US and South korea did terrible things during the war, but DPRK institutionalized terror.

[RGacky3]

Again, you haven't explained why the existence of a personality cult makes an entire ruling class (or an entire society) insane by any definition.

Nazism was insane, but that does'nt mean that everyone was insane, or the society was insane, or even the leadership was insane, it was an insane system though.

[caramelpence]

Nazism was insane, but that does'nt mean that everyone was insane, or the society was insane, or even the leadership was insane, it was an insane system though.

In what way was Nazism insane? The turn to Nazism by the German bourgeoisie was entirely rational in conditions of mass support for the KPD and the distinguishing feature of the Holocaust (in fact, the feature that makes it such a shocking and unique event) was that it involved the highly efficient application of modern technology, rather than killing of a wholly random or entirely inexplicable kind. The most consistent supporters of Nazism were often highly intelligent and well-edcated individuals, in that the SS, for example, were drawn mainly from Germany's best universities. You need to stop just asserting that different governments or societies are or were "insane" and actually provide an argument, first by explaining what you understand by the term.

[ComradeMan]

Again, you haven't explained why the existence of a personality cult makes an entire ruling class (or an entire society) insane by any definition. Was Argentina insane in the 1940s and 1950s because there was an elaborate personality cult around the Perons, to the extent that Eva Peron was often implicitly compared with the Virgin Mary, and was also met with mass mourning on her death? I don't really see how North Korea's dependence on food aid is related to your assertion that there is something insane about the country.

Another strawman here. Where did I say the entire society? Where did I say the entire ruling class even?

The food aid point was to highlight the fact that the "regime" cannot feed its own country and relies on aid basically yet in its delusions promotes the invincibility of the nation and the glory of the leaders. Sorry, but having a dead president named "eternal leader" is not exactly normal is it?

[caramelpence]

Another strawman here. Where did I say the entire society? Where did I say the entire ruling class even?

The food aid point was to highlight the fact that the "regime" cannot feed its own country and relies on aid basically yet in its delusions promotes the invincibility of the nation and the glory of the leaders. Sorry, but having a dead president named "eternal leader" is not exactly normal is it?

You haven't actually provided a clear argument anywhere, all you've done is assert that there is something insane about some aspect of North Korea, though you did say in post 44 that the personality cult suggests that "the regime" is not sane, whatever that means. It's up to you to clarify what you actually think about North Korea and to then substantiate that position. As for starvation and food shortages in North Korea, this goes back to what I mentioned earlier about people intuitively assuming that it is the role of governments to serve a common interest and that governments are actually capable of doing this. It only makes sense to highlight the government's failure to feed the large part of the population whilst promoting a personality cult as evidence of insanity if you think it is actually in the interests of the leaders of the state to look after the interests of North Korean producers, and if you think that they are therefore insane in their failure to do so - but this is not in their interests, and we should not expect the North Korean state to function as an agent of the common good, because North Korea is a capitalist state, and the state therefore functions as an instrument of class oppression whose role it is to stabilize the position of the ruling class. The rationality of the North Korean ruling class and their state should be judged according to their success in protecting their own class interests, and considered in this light they are very rational and sane indeed, because they have proven themselves to be a very cunning ruling class, not least in the way they have used the personality cult to maintain domestic legitimacy, at the same time as extracting compromises from other countries through geopolitical and military provocations. If you expect state apparatuses in capitalist societies to protect the interest of society as a whole then you might as well say that the US state is "insane" for its failure to respond effectively to disasters like Hurricane Katrina whilst sustaining a large military budget.

As you don't seem able to really argue, I don't think I'll be posting in this thread any more.

[RGacky3]

In what way was Nazism insane? The turn to Nazism by the German bourgeoisie was entirely rational in conditions of mass support for the KPD and the distinguishing feature of the Holocaust (in fact, the feature that makes it such a shocking and unique event) was that it involved the highly efficient application of modern technology, rather than killing of a wholly random or entirely inexplicable kind. The most consistent supporters of Nazism were often highly intelligent and well-edcated individuals, in that the SS, for example, were drawn mainly from Germany's best universities. You need to stop just asserting that different governments or societies are or were "insane" and actually provide an argument, first by explaining what you understand by the term.

ok, I'll take back my "insane" word, your really taking it literally and playing semantics arn't you, its kind of missing the point.

[Nox]

The most consistent supporters of Nazism were often highly intelligent

Did I just see "Nazism" and "Highly intelligent" in the same sentence?? :unsure:

[ComradeMan]

ok, I'll take back my "insane" word, your really taking it literally and playing semantics arn't you, its kind of missing the point.

Arguments of semantics.... :rolleyes: I suppose the next time someone starts criticising imperialism/capitalism/rightwingers as "insane" we'll have to call them out on it. ;)

Quite frankly, mass personality cults and slavish dedication to "eternal leaders" who are dead by the way and the terror instilled in people if they don't follow the cult and/or brainwashing that makes them do it are in not in my opinion signs of a sane regime- and I don't care who it is.

If we want to play the semantics game, sane- from rationality and healthiness- Latin sanus and sanitas, insane being the opposite/negation. Now if you want to argue that the regime in NK is rational and healthy in political and sociological terms... good luck.

[Tablo]

Did I just see "Nazism" and "Highly intelligent" in the same sentence?? :unsure:
To be fair, National Socialism had several highly intelligent supporters. Even today there are highly intelligent supporters. These are individuals I truly fear and those are the ones that are capable of turning other rationally thinking individuals over to their ideology. Not all Nazis are completely idiots.

[Nox]

To be fair, National Socialism had several highly intelligent supporters. Even today there are highly intelligent supporters. These are individuals I truly fear and those are the ones that are capable of turning other rationally thinking individuals over to their ideology. Not all Nazis are completely idiots but .

There are also highly intelligent supporters of Capitalism, highly intelligent supporters of anarcho-Capitalism, highly intelligent supporters of Creationism, highly intelligent supporters of Primitivism, highly intelligent supporters of Segregation

You get the picture, there are highly intelligent people that support practically everything, no matter how daft or dumb it may be

[Tablo]

There are also highly intelligent supporters of Capitalism, highly intelligent supporters of anarcho-Capitalism, highly intelligent supporters of Creationism, highly intelligent supporters of Primitivism, highly intelligent supporters of Segregation

You get the picture, there are highly intelligent people that support practically everything, no matter how daft or dumb it may be
I totally 100% agree.

[Fopeos]

Ah, now I see the importance of geometry!!

[Drosophila]

Have you seen the ridiculous plots in the Call of Duty games?

Yet Call of Duty and series like it are not created by the US government. They are made by entirely private companies.

[CommieTroll]

In what way was Nazism insane?

You cannot be serious........

[Geiseric]

Insanity is doing the same thing expecting different results. running a class society has contradictions and errors, which i'm sure capitalists know about. If they're expecting society or the world to be better because of capitalism, which we know doesnt work, they are insane because capitalism and imperialism are terrible things for mankind. Thus they know what they're doing, and don't care about how society fares with their actions. on another note, i was wondering, would capitalism be better if there were no competition? if everything was monopolised? because i read in an anarchist pamphlet, "socialism is state run monopoly" and couldn't figure out how that was a bad thing, if the state/unions/whoever organises the recources obviously distributed the wealth fairly, in the socialist sense.

[Valdemar]

Yet Call of Duty and series like it are not created by the US government. They are made by entirely private companies.

Dan, we were not just speaking about Call of Duty, but also other means of propaganda machine.
The things which are not created by US goverment can be propaganda too...take for example of hollyfkingwood. Call of Duty can be funded by goverment, so goverment do not make it, but it serves they interess. Funded can be offical or unoffical-hidden like in many NGO's.
And aftherall, they even do not need to get funds to be propaganda, they are influenced by mass media and other factors, so they act and do according to their belief. Get my point ?

Thats the beauty of Western Propaganda....

[RGacky3]

Call of duty is not funded by the government, and your coming up with conspiracy theories which are a little bit rediculous.

No one denies there is corporate propeganda in the US, but going around saying "Ammmerriiccaaa does it tooooo" is'nt an excuse, and in the US speach is not NEARLY as controlled as it is in North Korea.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

No one denies there is corporate propeganda in the US, but going around saying "Ammmerriiccaaa does it tooooo" is'nt an excuse, and in the US speach is not NEARLY as controlled as it is in North Korea.

Utterly irrelevant. The U.S. just handles it much more gently and efficiently.

To what degree it's controlled is irrelevant; in both places, it amounts to nothing. You're allowed more symbolic "freedom" because the U.S. ruling classes are much more secure in their position.

[Drosophila]

Dan, we were not just speaking about Call of Duty, but also other means of propaganda machine.
The things which are not created by US goverment can be propaganda too...take for example of hollyfkingwood. Call of Duty can be funded by goverment, so goverment do not make it, but it serves they interess. Funded can be offical or unoffical-hidden like in many NGO's.
And aftherall, they even do not need to get funds to be propaganda, they are influenced by mass media and other factors, so they act and do according to their belief. Get my point ?

Thats the beauty of Western Propaganda....

The US government doesn't fund video game companies. It allows them to exist, but that really doesn't matter.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

The US government doesn't fund video game companies. It allows them to exist, but that really doesn't matter.

And what about America's Army?

[RGacky3]

Utterly irrelevant. The U.S. just handles it much more gently and efficiently.

To what degree it's controlled is irrelevant; in both places, it amounts to nothing. You're allowed more symbolic "freedom" because the U.S. ruling classes are much more secure in their position.

TO the degree its controlled is absolutely relevant, the mainstream media is corporate controlled yes, but you can go and look up revolutionary information and not get arrested, you can join a union and a communist party if you'd like.

Its not symbolic freedom and it was'nt given to us, it was fought for over decades.

In North Korea, try start an independant union, or an opposition party.


And what about America's Army?

What about it ... If thats your comparison to say that North Korean population control is no worse than America's thats a sad example.

[Valdemar]

@dan74

You quote me, and reply with most silly reply which has nothing to do with my quote, as you did not even read my post!!!
So i really ask myself and you, did you even read why i wrote ? If you did and you did not understand, read it few times more...
Ok ?


Call of duty is not funded by the government, and your coming up with conspiracy theories which are a little bit rediculous.


I did not say it is Funded directly by USA, and I was not speaking of CoD, please read it again if you do not understand, and again and again... Also I said it can be funded unofficial, and if you think unofficial foundations are conspiracy theories...then I don't know why I'm talking to you in the first place. And like I said, (I hate repeating myself, but since I'm nice guy I will do it, just for you) It does not need to be funded, to be propaganda, the creators live in the west are influenced by its society, mass-media of the west, when they create game they also make it to be appealing to the people-market and they make it that it will not be banned by various governments (markets).



No one denies there is corporate propeganda in the US, but going around saying "Ammmerriiccaaa does it tooooo" is'nt an excuse, and in the US speach is not NEARLY as controlled as it is in North Korea.

No one denies there is corporate propaganda? But you are deniying there is USA goverment propaganda?
Excuse for what? I don't see anything wrong with such cartoon, my point is USA does it on greateer and more insane way then DRPK and it is far far far more succesful then DRPK propaganda.

Don't talk about USA freedom of speach, please don't...just don't...(you are ignorant & brainwased if you think it exists)
&
Your earlier post was that USA did not do as much crimes to (N.K) people as goverment of DRPK is just...stupid, ignorant and brainwashed.

That's it, Next time you will start talking stupid things and quoting-replying me with no connection or replying me and quoting me without actually reading it or understanding it, I will simply ignore you.
And any other guy who is similar to you or brainwashed beyond reason.

(syrsly, i don't know what else to do with people who A) Do not read what i write B) Do not understand what i wrote or C) Are brainwashed

[RGacky3]

and if you think unofficial foundations are conspiracy theories

.... For video games.


That's it, Next time you will start talking stupid things and quoting-replying me with no connection or replying me and quoting me without actually reading it or understanding it, I will simply ignore you.
And any other guy who is similar to you or brainwashed beyond reason.


Brainwashed ... Because we don't see how awesome the "great leader" is?

[Valdemar]

Brainwashed ... Because we don't see how awesome the "great leader" is?

No, you again missed the point...
Anways, back to the topic Great Leader is Great indeed! (jk)

I don't see anything wrong with cartoon, and I don't think it is Insane at all if we compare it to the western propaganda machine.
Its about boy who learns about geometry while dreaming about doing good deed-defending its life which has got social security.
&
I have problems with such posts who trash North Korea, you are spreading allready popular image of Korea which is bad, sadistic, monarchy, bad life etc. Which is image of North Korea presented by Imperialist countries and its mass media. One day USA will again attack North Korea, under charter of UN for defending humman rights, and they will play those cards YOU are spreading. And most of people will again support Imperialist agression of war for resorcues and strategic locations becasue you Spread the Image of Korea which was created by same Imperialist Countries.

[RGacky3]

On the cartoon itself, no, its not that bad at all, what is more disturbing to me is the fact that no one is allowed to read, watch or listen to other material other than that not approved by the state.

[Geiseric]

I think the image we spread about North Korea comes from people who've been there, taken pictures of the empty streets, the empty buildings which are built in front of the ghettoes so nobody sees them, and the population who has actually been brainwashed into some committing suicide when Kim Il Sung died. it pains me to see places like NK and Vietnam, they had so much revolutionary potential before they were infected with Stalinism.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

TO the degree its controlled is absolutely relevant, the mainstream media is corporate controlled yes, but you can go and look up revolutionary information and not get arrested, you can join a union and a communist party if you'd like.

Its not symbolic freedom and it was'nt given to us, it was fought for over decades.

In North Korea, try start an independant union, or an opposition party.


Those are irrelevant because even though they are allowed, there are obviously other strategies to mitigate any result such things would bring; a strategy much more effective than banning them outright, because people will be under the illusion that they are allowed those liberties, when in fact they are only allowed them insofar as they remain harmless to the established order. You can go look up revolutionary information because the state is confident it can suppress it with its multitude of methods for this very purpose. Just outright disallowing this has a tendency to result in a political backlash; thus the Western method is much more efficient at creating a sense of superiority and 'freedom' while at the same time still being repressive.


What about it ... If thats your comparison to say that North Korean population control is no worse than America's thats a sad example.

I was responding to his claims as regards video-games; America's Army is a video-game that is doubtlessly a recruitment tool for the Army and funded by them.


I think the image we spread about North Korea comes from people who've been there, taken pictures of the empty streets, the empty buildings which are built in front of the ghettoes so nobody sees them, and the population who has actually been brainwashed into some committing suicide when Kim Il Sung died. it pains me to see places like NK and Vietnam, they had so much revolutionary potential before they were infected with Stalinism.

The streets are quite often full of pedestrians, and the buildings are not empty. The fact that they line major roads is predominantly to give an impressive appearance, not to hide away less well-off areas, because those are quite clearly visible in most of the cities (they are not really ghettoes anyway, but rather areas in need of renovation and modernisation). There is indeed disturbing realities such as the fact that the inner political circle enjoys special luxury flats in a special closed part of the city centre, but the idea of all the impressive buildings being some sort of "potemkin village" is a lie. There are people that commit suicide when celebrities die everywhere, this is not something unique to the situation in the DPRK but rather a feature of any personality cult of any kind.

[RGacky3]

Those are irrelevant because even though they are allowed, there are obviously other strategies to mitigate any result such things would bring; a strategy much more effective than banning them outright

Really? lets see what happened in Wisconsin happen in North Korea, lets see what happend before the Iraq war happened happen in North Korea, lets see a civil rights movement happen in North Korea.


thus the Western method is much more efficient at creating a sense of superiority and 'freedom' while at the same time still being repressive.


Except there is more freedom and its much less repressive still than the USSR.

[RevLeft By Birth]

Those are irrelevant because even though they are allowed, there are obviously other strategies to mitigate any result such things would bring; a strategy much more effective than banning them outright, because people will be under the illusion that they are allowed those liberties, when in fact they are only allowed them insofar as they remain harmless to the established order. You can go look up revolutionary information because the state is confident it can suppress it with its multitude of methods for this very purpose. Just outright disallowing this has a tendency to result in a political backlash; thus the Western method is much more efficient at creating a sense of superiority and 'freedom' while at the same time still being repressive.

Well said, the people who argue that "free" access to information west means it is somehow superior make a mockery of themselves, and the west lacks workers power, or any of the gains of socialism, so in a materialistic analysis the DPRK is superior.

[WeAreReborn]

Well said, the people who argue that "free" access to information west means it is somehow superior make a mockery of themselves, and the west lacks workers power, or any of the gains of socialism, so in a materialistic analysis the DPRK is superior.
So you are arguing that because the DPRK makes no illusion that the worker's have no rights it is superior to America, because America just creates an illusion of freedom? Both sound pretty inferior to me...

[RGacky3]

and the west lacks workers power, or any of the gains of socialism, so in a materialistic analysis the DPRK is superior.

DPRK lacks workers power, ifact more workers power than the US, don't believe me? start a union in the DPRK.

[DarkPast]

Those are irrelevant because even though they are allowed, there are obviously other strategies to mitigate any result such things would bring; a strategy much more effective than banning them outright, because people will be under the illusion that they are allowed those liberties, when in fact they are only allowed them insofar as they remain harmless to the established order. You can go look up revolutionary information because the state is confident it can suppress it with its multitude of methods for this very purpose. Just outright disallowing this has a tendency to result in a political backlash; thus the Western method is much more efficient at creating a sense of superiority and 'freedom' while at the same time still being repressive.

I'd still rather live in a country with fake liberties than one where you can be sent to a labour camp just for cracking a joke about the "dear leader".

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

Really? lets see what happened in Wisconsin happen in North Korea, lets see what happend before the Iraq war happened happen in North Korea, lets see a civil rights movement happen in North Korea.

Except there is more freedom and its much less repressive still than the USSR.

What happened in Wisconsin? Did the protests in any meaningful way thwart the crimes to be committed? This does not mean that it will never have any results. It will only have any results if the capitalists think the price is worth paying. Slavery was not abolished under capitalism due to the good of the capitalist's hearts. The struggle against slavery succeeded because the capitalist became convinced it would benefit them, if that would happen. Many of the labour struggles during the 1900's that resulted in major improvements for the working class were temporary concessions made because the capitalist class made strategic decisions wherein they thought making those would benefit them and their rule. Indirect and subliminal repression is no less repression just because it doesn't feel as hard or because it isn't as immediate.

There's no such thing as freedom. Freedom is just a cheap empty slogan. I don't think that the DPRK is actually socialist nor do I think its ruling structure and politics are correct or agreeable, I simply dislike such unspecific and generic and ultimately pointless posturing as "oh oh no freedoms".

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

There's no such thing as freedom. Freedom is just a cheap empty slogan.

Am I the only who thinks these kind of statements are self-fulfilling prophecies? Ideas do not emerge in a vacuum, and if one endorses the idea that freedom is something worthless and therefore not worth fighting for, then it's likely that one will behave the same way.

Freedom in my opinion is not something that is handed down from on high, by authorities spiritual or temporal. It is something that has to be fought for and defended by those who desire it. The working class has to struggle the most for it, and why should they not? After all they are the true creators of society's wealth.

[Nox]

I think the image we spread about North Korea comes from people who've been there, taken pictures of the empty streets, the empty buildings which are built in front of the ghettoes so nobody sees them, and the population who has actually been brainwashed into some committing suicide when Kim Il Sung died. it pains me to see places like NK and Vietnam, they had so much revolutionary potential before they were infected with Stalinism.

Did you seriously just compare Juche to Stalinism Marxism-Leninism?

[RevLeft By Birth]

In after leaving Cuba, Che Guevara visited Pyongyang and said the DPRK "was a model to which revolutionary Cuba should aspire." This was after Cuba had been betrayed by the Soviet revisionists who did not give Cuba the authorization to control the nuclear missiles the Soviets stationed there, and even worse removed them. (IMHO this was a missed opportunity to bring the world revolution to the fore had Che Guevara and the Cubans been allowed to fire the missiles like they wanted to).

This statement by Che Guevara, a man respected to this day, is a very strong endorsement of the DPRK and the ideological line of Juche.

If the DPRK followed such a faulty ideological line, why would Che Guevara endorse it?

[Tenka]

Am I the only who thinks these kind of statements are self-fulfilling prophecies? Ideas do not emerge in a vacuum, and if one endorses the idea that freedom is something worthless and therefore not worth fighting for, then it's likely that one will behave the same way.

Freedom in my opinion is not something that is handed down from on high, by authorities spiritual or temporal. It is something that has to be fought for and defended by those who desire it. The working class has to struggle the most for it, and why should they not? After all they are the true creators of society's wealth.
Takayuki did not say that freedom was worthless, but that it doesn't exist. The working class fight is for what belongs to the working class, and not for any Braveheartian notions of "freedom" (what does that even mean, in a materialist sense?).

[Commissar Rykov]

Have you seen the ridiculous plots in the Call of Duty games?

You obviously haven't the heroes in the Game are the British SAS while the US Military is usually shown as bumbling if not outright incompetent.

[CHE with an AK]

AMMMMERRIICCAAA Does
sbjr_cPS9_A

[Revy]

The pen may be mightier than the sword, but it's not mightier than the pencil missile!:p

[RED DAVE]

the west lacks workers power, or any of the gains of socialismAre you trying to tell us that after all this time, you are still peddling that snake oil that North Korea is socialist?

RED DAVE