Best alternative to a capitalist economy

[UnknownPerson]

Which economy is the best alternative to a capitalist economy? And which sub-type of that economy, if any?
The best one for most of the people.

[Nox]

A Communist economy :)

[thefinalmarch]

Best for who? The capitalist mode of production is fucking brilliant for the capitalist classes, because it serves to maintain their class interests by raking in profits for them. Likewise, the communist mode of production is best for workers because it serves to main their own class interests* (such as entitling workers to the full product of their labour), which are in stark contrast to those of the capitalist classes - although when a communist mode of production exists workers will cease to exist as a class, but rather as an "association of free labourers".

You judge a mode of production by its class character.

*their class interests under capitalism

[Vendetta]

Likewise, the communist mode of production is best for workers because it serves to main their own class interests* (such as entitling workers to the full product of their labour), which are in stark contrast to those of the capitalist classes

And?

[thefinalmarch]

And?
I don't understand what point you're trying to make here.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

The best economy would,pre-communism,be a socialist planned economy where the needs of society are produced instead of the chaotic wants of capitalists.

[UnknownPerson]

And?

I'm sorry, but what?

[thesadmafioso]

Communism is not an alternative to capitalism, it is the next step in the historical progression of society. Though regardless of this haphazard phrasing of the question at hand here, a communist and to a lesser extent socialist mode of production would be most beneficial to the interests of the proletariat. As these ideas allow for worker control over the means of production and as they remove the parasitical existence of the capitalist class from matters of industry, they are markedly superior to capitalism in measurements of efficiency as well in matters of basic social justice.

[Broletariat]

There is no such thing as a "socialist mode of production" that would be different from a "communist mode of production" while also being different from a "capitalist mode of production."

[Comrade Trotsky]

There is no such thing as a "socialist mode of production" that would be different from a "communist mode of production" while also being different from a "capitalist mode of production."


....what? :confused:

[Broletariat]

....what? :confused:
What I'm trying to say is, Socialism is the same thing as Communism.

To try and differentiate them means that you're using more mainstream bourgeois political constructs and referring to "social democracy" as "Socialism."

[Tim Cornelis]

What I'm trying to say is, Socialism is the same thing as Communism.

To try and differentiate them means that you're using more mainstream bourgeois political constructs and referring to "social democracy" as "Socialism."

Not really. It depends really.

Using Lenin's terminology socialism means lower-phase communism and communism solely refers to higher-phase communism.

Socialism can also refer to other forms of socialism which are not Marxist, like inclusive democracy, parecon, market socialism even.

[Broletariat]

Not really. It depends really.

Using Lenin's terminology socialism means lower-phase communism and communism solely refers to higher-phase communism.

Socialism can also refer to other forms of socialism which are not Marxist, like inclusive democracy, parecon, market socialism even.
I like to stick exclusively to a scientific analysis (read as Marxism).

There's not really any reason we should call "lower-phase communism" socialism, it just adds to confusion.

I also don't really consider any of the things you listed to be socialistic at all.

[Kadir Ateş]

No economy at all would be the "alternative" to a capitalist economy. There might be different variants of capitalism whereby "social needs" are incorporated/considered into an overall market structure, but as one person has already mentioned, they have a tendency to fail because they are considered as costs against profit. If there ever was such an alternative to capitalism, it would have to lack of the law of value as its guiding principle of production and be replaced with one emphasizing social needs.

[Tim Cornelis]

I like to stick exclusively to a scientific analysis (read as Marxism).

There's not really any reason we should call "lower-phase communism" socialism, it just adds to confusion.

I also don't really consider any of the things you listed to be socialistic at all.

If we use the conventional and least controversial definition of socialism "common or government ownership of the means of production" + "workers' control of production" then parecon, inclusive democracy and market socialism all qualify as socialist.

But whatever, semantics don't really matter, the ideas do.

[Broletariat]

If we use the conventional and least controversial definition of socialism "common or government ownership of the means of production" + "workers' control of production" then parecon, inclusive democracy and market socialism all qualify as socialist.

But whatever, semantics don't really matter, the ideas do.


I wanted to be scientific ;_;

[thesadmafioso]

I like to stick exclusively to a scientific analysis (read as Marxism).

There's not really any reason we should call "lower-phase communism" socialism, it just adds to confusion.

I also don't really consider any of the things you listed to be socialistic at all.

This was a widely accepted assessment of socialism in the Soviet Union that goes back as far as the Bolsheviks, so how exactly is this bourgeois?

Russian Soviet Federal Socialist Republic, Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. I know the names themselves don't necessarily say anything, but it was still a common enough practice among theoretical circles to refer to the early stages of communism as socialism, and that is reflected in those titles.

Low phase communism and socialism, this is basically an argument over who has the better synonym.

[Broletariat]

This was a widely accepted assessment of socialism in the Soviet Union that goes back as far as the Bolsheviks, so how exactly is this bourgeois?

Russian Soviet Federal Socialist Republic, Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. I know the names themselves don't necessarily say anything, but it was still a common enough practice among theoretical circles to refer to the early stages of communism as socialism, and that is reflected in those titles.

Low phase communism and socialism, this is basically an argument over who has the better synonym.


I guess I'm just anal and like to stick to what Marx and Engels said/did. They used the words Communism and Socialism interchangeably.

It just feels like once we start using that word differently, we start down a slippery-slope where we start calling State Capitalism Socialism instead.

[thesadmafioso]

I guess I'm just anal and like to stick to what Marx and Engels said/did. They used the words Communism and Socialism interchangeably.

It just feels like once we start using that word differently, we start down a slippery-slope where we start calling State Capitalism Socialism instead.

You can still use the two interchangeably in many different situations, it is just that certain discussions require a more focused approach.

I don't think anything in that approach really qualifies as a descent down a slippery slope which would equate socialism with state capitalism, given the fact that the two are both very distinct concepts.