The Problem With RevLeft

[Flying Trotsky]

Anyone ever get the feeling that this is the problem with RevLeft?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE

[Tommy4ever]

Been said before, and its entirely true of both revleft and the left as a whole.

[Zanthorus]

oh no guys 'leftists' have disagreements how terrible hey i know the answer lets just shut off all criticism in the name of some fascile unity with murderers traitors and assorted butchers of the working-class then all the workers will hold hands and crush the evil bourgeois cuz

[Wanted Man]

Hey wow, I've never seen that before. Is that from a new movie? It's fucking hilarious!

[CynicalIdealist]

Expected that, but it's still funny and true.

[CommunityBeliever]

It is is The Judean People's Front, the Judean Popular People's Front, the Campaign for a Free Galilee, and the Popular Front of Judea that are the real problem comrade.

http://www.revleft.com/vb/group.php?groupid=679

[hatzel]

Good job this is in the politics section :)

[Aurorus Ruber]

Hey wow, I've never seen that before. Is that from a new movie? It's fucking hilarious!

It's from Monty Python's the Life of Brian, actually an older movie from the 70s.

[Aspiring Humanist]

It's from Monty Python's the Life of Brian, actually an older movie from the 70s.

I guess you didn't catch the sarcasm...

[Weezer]

Honestly, the sectarianism here isn't really as bad as opposed to the real world of minor party politics.

[Lyev]

There is also this from a 1873 letter of Engels writing to Bebel:

One must not allow oneself to be misled by the cry for "unity." Those who have this word most often on their lips are those who sow the most dissension, just as at present the Jura Bakuninists in Switzerland, who have provoked all the splits, scream for nothing so much as for unity. Those unity fanatics are either the people of limited intelligence who want to stir everything up together into one nondescript brew, which, the moment it is left to settle, throws up the differences again in much more acute opposition because they are now all together in one pot (you have a fine example of this in Germany with the people who preach the reconciliation of the workers and the petty bourgeoisie)--or else they are people who consciously or unconsciously ... want to adulterate the movement. For this reason the greatest sectarians and the biggest brawlers and rogues are at certain moments the loudest shouters for unity. Nobody in our lifetime has given us more trouble and been more treacherous than the unity shouters.Not to be rude, but this thread is heading chit-chat or the trashcan. Sorry OP

Edit; oh it was moved to chit-chat whilst I typed

[hatzel]

Edit; oh it was moved to chit-chat whilst I typed

Almost a shame how it was moved to chit-chat as soon as somebody made a post of some serious political worth, but ah well, no use crying over spilt milk...

[Flying Trotsky]

These things happen...

[Zanthorus]

There is also this from a 1873 letter of Engels writing to Bebel:

Engels to Bebel again, this time in 1882:


In France the long expected split has taken place. The original conjunction of Guesde and Lafargue with Malon and Brousse was no doubt unavoidable when the party was founded, but Marx and I never had any illusions that it could last. The issue is purely one of principle: is the struggle to be conducted as a class struggle of the proletariat against the bourgeoisie, or is it to be permitted that in good opportunist (or as it is called in the Socialist translation: possibilist) style the class character of the movement, together with the programme, are everywhere to be dropped where there is a chance of winning more votes, more adherents, by this means. Malon and Brousse, by declaring themselves in favour of the latter alternative, have sacrificed the proletarian class character of the movement and made separation inevitable. All the better. The development of the proletariat proceeds everywhere amidst internal struggles and France, which is now forming a workers' party for the first time, is no exception. We in Germany have got beyond the first phase of the internal struggle, other phases still lie before us. Unity is quite a good thing so long as it is possible, but there are things which stand higher than unity. And when, like Marx and myself, one has fought harder all one's life long against the alleged Socialists than against anyone else (for we only regarded the bourgeoisie as a class and hardly ever involved ourselves in conflicts with individual bourgeois), one cannot greatly grieve that the inevitable struggle has broken out.

[Apoi_Viitor]

I've always felt that there should just be a single organized party which allows for criticism and even gives a forum to those in the party who have dissenting views. Because of 'democratic centralism' and the "strict subordination of the minority to the majority", every minor disagreement is a reason to splinter off.

[Jose Gracchus]

You can't get anything discrete done while having broad unity for broad unity's sake. Can you imagine getting RevLeft to endorse and support any resolution that was more sophisticated than: "YAY WORKERS LOL"?

[Kadir Ateş]

I think the problem with RevLeft is that it is more of a platform to allow the calcification of stagnant, leftist ideas via unproductive debate than a place for critical inquiry. Why movements such as Stalinism or Maoism are being supported by individuals living in prosperous societies is beyond me. Anyone having the experience of growing up under an actual totalitarian government may perhaps reminisce over a (imperfect) welfare state, but certainly have no fond memories of its political expression.

RevLeft could be a way for militants and revolutionaries to come together and exchange tactics, to compare and contrast their own experiences in class struggle, daily toils at work, encounters with the boss, etc. It could be, but it isn't because the vast majority on this site only interested in fronting for some counter-revolutionary dogmatism of yet another leftist cult icon.

I therefore don't take this site seriously. There are a handful of good and insightful individuals, namely The Inform Candidate, Zanthorous, ZeroNowhere, Tom Finnegan, Broletariat, S. Artesian, Stagger Lee, Savage, et al. There are others, and you know who you are. And I give them credit for managing to wade through this swamp of theoretical, quietist mediocrity.

[Forward Union]

This is more accurate (have to have been here when the CC was around)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApoiZz4X8jU

[Sam_b]

Man people that bring this up as a serious argument are just idiots with no idea about meaningful strategy and tactics.

Also, splits do not necessary have anything to do with sectarianism you dolts.

[F9]

trots man, trots, theres the real problem!!

[scarletghoul]

marx himself made this comparison in a letter to heidegger

[CynicalIdealist]

I've always felt that there should just be a single organized party which allows for criticism and even gives a forum to those in the party who have dissenting views. Because of 'democratic centralism' and the "strict subordination of the minority to the majority", every minor disagreement is a reason to splinter off.

Huh. Come to think of it, that makes a lot of sense.

Shit. Mind=blown.

[Honggweilo]

I've always felt that there should just be a single organized party which allows for criticism and even gives a forum to those in the party who have dissenting views. Because of 'democratic centralism' and the "strict subordination of the minority to the majority", every minor disagreement is a reason to splinter off.

i lol'd bcuz eurocommunism

[Thirsty Crow]

oh no guys 'leftists' have disagreements how terrible hey i know the answer lets just shut off all criticism in the name of some fascile unity with murderers traitors and assorted butchers of the working-class then all the workers will hold hands and crush the evil bourgeois cuz
Hey, was Zanthorus drunk again?
I still rember the "drunk-left-communist-tells-you-to-piss-off" post.

[Aleenik]

I agree that it's a problem, but it seems to be unfixable. The viewpoints are just too varied. Funny clip though.:)