How do you make people pick garbage?

[TheCuriousJournalist]

So I'm still very new to communism, and as such, have a quite noobish theoretical question.

People often ask how would you make someone be a doctor in a communist society if they don't make much more than a janitor for example.

And the answers include that, well, not everyone is a doctor merely for the money. You would pay people to study, essentially taking away the negative aspects of university and education.

So I understand that aspect.

My question is, if theoretically everything a person needs is provided for, how do you make them perform menial jobs like picking up garbage for example.


I'm willing to bet that a huge portion of people in capitalists' societies only do their jobs because they need the money from it to survive.

Now you say communism would allow for people to follow their true dreams, and acquire jobs they really want, which is good.

But how many people want to be janitors? Or cashiers at fast food restaurants? Or doing menial desk work?

And if they already have what they need, how would you get the bare essentials done if everyone is looking for a more "prestigious" job.

I know this is assuming people would retain their warped capitalistic conceptions of success, but still.

Any help would be great!

[Commissar Rykov]

I had a friend who used to do waste disposal and he loved it mostly because he enjoyed the early morning hours and being able to have most of the day to do whatever he wanted after his run. I don't think it would take much persuasion to be honest and not to mention it is a civic service so I don't see it being much of a problem to fill that position to be quite honest.

People like doing menial labor because they enjoy the work even in capitalist society you see this. This would only be furthered enhanced by a Socialist/Communist society as they would no longer have the stress of having to work 5 jobs or pick up extra shifts just to put food on the table.

[Delenda Carthago]

I punch them

[thesadmafioso]

You seem to be applying the typical labor dynamic as it exists under capitalism to a society where the factors that shape that dichotomy no longer are present. It is really quite impossible to understand the nature of labor under a communistic society by using the lens of its state of being under capitalist society, as the two represent stages in the historical development of humanity which are separate.

We will not be able to eliminate the need for labor in a post revolutionary society, but we can free it from the exploitation of the capitalist and thus improve the conditions under which it is preformed immensely. There is also the supporting sense of knowing that your toils are not going towards an effort to provide a capitalist with profits, but for the betterment of society itself.

[DarkPast]

"Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun." :D

[Commissar Rykov]

"Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun." :D
I hope you are not suggesting what I think you are suggesting.

[Leftsolidarity]

So I'm still very new to communism, and as such, have a quite noobish theoretical question.

People often ask how would you make someone be a doctor in a communist society if they don't make much more than a janitor for example.

And the answers include that, well, not everyone is a doctor merely for the money. You would pay people to study, essentially taking away the negative aspects of university and education.

So I understand that aspect.

My question is, if theoretically everything a person needs is provided for, how do you make them perform menial jobs like picking up garbage for example.


I'm willing to bet that a huge portion of people in capitalists' societies only do their jobs because they need the money from it to survive.

Now you say communism would allow for people to follow their true dreams, and acquire jobs they really want, which is good.

But how many people want to be janitors? Or cashiers at fast food restaurants? Or doing menial desk work?

And if they already have what they need, how would you get the bare essentials done if everyone is looking for a more "prestigious" job.

I know this is assuming people would retain their warped capitalistic conceptions of success, but still.

Any help would be great!


Well there are better answers but I just wanted to say that I do pick up trash and clean up my neighborhood sometimes when I get bored. I also have a friend who has a job doing what he loves (music tech shit) but wants to be a janitor again. He said being a janitor was one of the most enjoyable jobs he ever had.

Basically, find the right people.

[kahimikarie]

I've heard of the jobs that few people would want to do like garbage disposal being shared among the community in shifts...?
Also under socialism not everyone would make the same wage, this is a misconception.

[Sensible Socialist]

Consider the amount of people living in a town, even a relatively small one. If each person put in a few hours, consider how often you would have to do a job you didn't find enthralling. It would be miniscule. If the community comes together for jobs that aren't in demand, the amount of work on the part of each citizen would be next to nothing. That said, I'm sure there would be people, as Rykov said, that enjoy doing those jobs because it allows them to have more time to pursue other activities.

[Apoi_Viitor]

"Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun." :D

You'll work harder with a gun in your back for a bowl of rice a day!

[La Peur Rouge]

Also under socialism not everyone would make the same wage, this is a misconception.

Why shouldn't they? Why should there be wages at all?

[thesadmafioso]

Why shouldn't they? Why should there be wages at all?

You run into some practical concerns in the immediate term if there is literally no graduation of wage in some fields. When socialism is not provided with the proper international support and it is forced to exist in the context of a capitalist dominated global economy, this only heightens the necessity for the temporary maintenance of minor wage inequities. Obviously these would not be large enough to facilitate the reemergence of class or to allow major divides in living standards, but it would still need to exist in a limited sense for the short term.

[Revolutionary_Change]

I think a key aspect of this question involves a shift from a capitalist mindset to a socialist one. Under capitalism we are made to do tasks that we do not wish to do out of economic necessity. I need a job to eat, the only job on the market is trash duty, thus I am forced to become a garbage collector.

under socialism the process changes from one of coercion to community organization. The capitalist thought process transitions to become: my community wants to get rid of trash, does anyone want to take care of garbage removal? If no one does then the community can organize a rotational system where the unpleasant chore is diluted. By making these unwanted tasks a community job we would also probably seek to produce less trash- in solidarity with our comrades on duty on any given day (as well as with the planet that is common property of all)

[A Marxist Historian]

So I'm still very new to communism, and as such, have a quite noobish theoretical question.

People often ask how would you make someone be a doctor in a communist society if they don't make much more than a janitor for example.

And the answers include that, well, not everyone is a doctor merely for the money. You would pay people to study, essentially taking away the negative aspects of university and education.

So I understand that aspect.

My question is, if theoretically everything a person needs is provided for, how do you make them perform menial jobs like picking up garbage for example.


I'm willing to bet that a huge portion of people in capitalists' societies only do their jobs because they need the money from it to survive.

Now you say communism would allow for people to follow their true dreams, and acquire jobs they really want, which is good.

But how many people want to be janitors? Or cashiers at fast food restaurants? Or doing menial desk work?

And if they already have what they need, how would you get the bare essentials done if everyone is looking for a more "prestigious" job.

I know this is assuming people would retain their warped capitalistic conceptions of success, but still.

Any help would be great!

The best answer to this question was the one Kenneth McLeod posed in his excellent communist sci fi novel, The Cassini Division.

One of the characters said that your correct answer to the question of who would pick up the garbage in a true socialist society is,

"I will."

-M.H.-

PS: In the transitional phase to socialism, in which capitalist methods would still be in use, the obvious answer would be to pay garbage workers more money than those employed in jobs most people like better.

[Aspiring Humanist]

Who the hell would make someone pick up trash? A society that forces someone into a specific job isn't the product of a socialist revolution, it needs one

[La Peur Rouge]

You run into some practical concerns in the immediate term if there is literally no graduation of wage in some fields.

Yes but I was referring to socialism in the sense of a society existing post-capitalism, other than that I don't disagree with you.

[MarxSchmarx]

As a condition of being able to enjoy the fruits of socialist society, everybody spends a miniscule fraction of their time each week doing some kind of "menial" labour.

[Susurrus]

Generally, the wage system is abolished at some point on the path to communism. At what point depends on the tendency IE Anarcho-coms immediately, and Stalinists far, far in the future.

[thesadmafioso]

Yes but I was referring to socialism in the sense of a society existing post-capitalism, other than that I don't disagree with you.

Even then, the transition to a complete state of communism can require a lengthy preparatory period of socialism with the actual time of such a stage being determined by various different factors such as internal development and international elements. This inevitably leads to the existence and need for disparity in wages even in a post capitalist society, though nearly to the extent witnessed under capitalist society and in conjunction with a plan to eliminate such a structure in the future.