make a political party?

[The Dark Side of the Moon]

i just want to say it, now.
i hate most of the leftist party's out their, and i want to make a political party of my own creation, using my own set of ideals. i just would like tips, ideas anything. and how would i make one?

[Tim Finnegan]

Trying to start a party in thine own image is an excellent way to isolate yourself from both the working class and the organised left, especially if you don't wait until you're actually Somebody do so. I mean, Tommy Sheridan can't pull it off, so what chance do you have? Look around for other groups, even small and pluralist activist groups, rather than just adding another pointless sect to the pile, especially not one which will, if we are quite frank, consist of you and maybe a handful of people with an unrecognised and essentially meaningless "party" label.

[The Dark Side of the Moon]

true but do you you know of any party's that support a legislature, a party leader, democratically voted in by the people? i havent. im not going to be able to change a larger party just because, and you logic is invalid, there are hundreds of partys,

[thesadmafioso]

I somehow doubt that there is any real aspect of factionalism on the left that has yet to be explored by some group of people at some point in time, you would probably have much better luck in joining an already existing party. Not only would you be able to have more of an impact in your activity, but it would probably just be a lot easier to manage.

[5hadowMarxist]

the party for socialism and liberation is the most act ML party in America

[Comrade Trotsky]

I somehow doubt that there is any real aspect of factionalism on the left that has yet to be explored by some group of people at some point in time, you would probably have much better luck in joining an already existing party. Not only would you be able to have more of an impact in your activity, but it would probably just be a lot easier to manage.


This.

The left is already so fractured. If you want to promote solidarity and partake in something that has the potential to make a difference, you're better off joining an already existing group.

Hopefully one that focuses more on class politics than party politics, to boot.

[Rusty Shackleford]

right now the parties in the US are not actual parties of the working class... yet.


the PSL falls under this category as well. We are not the vanguard and only in times of revolutionary struggle in a revolutionary period will the vanguard come into actual being and a party of the working class actually develop. The PSL hopes to come into this position, obviously but that is besides the point.


more parties means more waiting and bickering.

either join an organization you agree with or work in between organizations as an independent communist.

No organization is perfect. and a party of the working class or its vanguard (when it really is the vanguard) is perfect. perfection is utopian. reality is imperfect and radical.


so, do work. if you dont like the organizations that currently exist. so be it. but dont use it as an excuse to not advocate communism. join student clubs on your campus that have political characteristics and do the entryist thing and advocate real struggle.

i did that for some time. and what you will learn is liberals are shit.

but. dont give up.


do work in the interest of the working class.

[The Dark Side of the Moon]

so any parties that are close to my idea?

[Rusty Shackleford]

what are your ideas?

[∞]

Join mine. I'm sure you'll find it interesting.

[Q]

true but do you you know of any party's that support a legislature, a party leader, democratically voted in by the people?
Quite a few political groups and organisations support such basic positions. Anything more specific in mind?


im not going to be able to change a larger party just because
I'm not entirely sure what you mean here, but if you're refering to the sad democratic record of the far left, I'm inclined to agree. Many groups and organisations don't allow any type of dissent.


and you logic is invalid, there are hundreds of partys,
There are no parties of the working class. What there is, are merely small or medium sized groups and organisations of activists. Often operating in a sectarian and bureaucratic manner.


so any parties that are close to my idea?

You could try this list (http://eng.anarchopedia.org/list_of_Left-Wing_Parties_in_the_United_States_of_America). I'm sure it is incomplete though.

[Agent Equality]

Trying to start a party in thine own image is an excellent way to isolate yourself from both the working class and the organised left, especially if you don't wait until you're actually Somebody do so. I mean, Tommy Sheridan can't pull it off, so what chance do you have? Look around for other groups, even small and pluralist activist groups, rather than just adding another pointless sect to the pile, especially not one which will, if we are quite frank, consist of you and maybe a handful of people with an unrecognised and essentially meaningless "party" label.


Look at his organization and everything having to do with his profile....Vanguard party, Vanguard party. It kind of obvious he wants to isolate himself from the working class and rule them from above. To say that you want the working class to rule and then advocate for a vanguard party of eliete revolutionaries or professional revolutionaries (whatever you want to call them) is folly.

We all saw what happened with the Soviet Union and their puppet states and not to mention China.... A vanguard party is an utterly contradictory idea.

[Iraultzaile Ezkerreko]

Look at his organization and everything having to do with his profile....Vanguard party, Vanguard party. It kind of obvious he wants to isolate himself from the working class and rule them from above. To say that you want the working class to rule and then advocate for a vanguard party of eliete revolutionaries or professional revolutionaries (whatever you want to call them) is folly.

We all saw what happened with the Soviet Union and their puppet states and not to mention China.... A vanguard party is an utterly contradictory idea.

Yo man, I heard you liked anti-Leninist charicatures, so I put an anti-Leninist characature in your anti-Leninist charicature.

[The Douche]

Look at his organization and everything having to do with his profile....Vanguard party, Vanguard party. It kind of obvious he wants to isolate himself from the working class and rule them from above. To say that you want the working class to rule and then advocate for a vanguard party of eliete revolutionaries or professional revolutionaries (whatever you want to call them) is folly.

We all saw what happened with the Soviet Union and their puppet states and not to mention China.... A vanguard party is an utterly contradictory idea.

Well, surely, he'll change his mind because of your post here.


If you don't have anything constructive to add...

[The Dark Side of the Moon]

Look at his organization and everything having to do with his profile....Vanguard party, Vanguard party. It kind of obvious he wants to isolate himself from the working class and rule them from above. To say that you want the working class to rule and then advocate for a vanguard party of eliete revolutionaries or professional revolutionaries (whatever you want to call them) is folly.

We all saw what happened with the Soviet Union and their puppet states and not to mention China.... A vanguard party is an utterly contradictory idea.
oh yes, a vanguard party certainly has to have permanent members, and it also cant have its members democratically voted in by the people. oh and while your at it, they also have to have 500 times the working class wage. your so smart

[Leftsolidarity]

I'm in the SPUSA because even though it is not strictly a revolutionary party or anything like that it fits best to my ideals and I think has the best chance of actually reaching and relating to the public. It's multi-tendency so you get a bit of everything.

[The Dark Side of the Moon]

I'm in the SPUSA because even though it is not strictly a revolutionary party or anything like that it fits best to my ideals and I think has the best chance of actually reaching and relating to the public. It's multi-tendency so you get a bit of everything.
website?

[Commissar Rykov]

website?
http://sp-usa.org/

This was the last party I was with but I haven't paid dues. They are ok but as was stated they are rather multi-tendency and thus a bit all over the place.

[The Douche]

It should be noted that the SP has a historical precedent of kicking out/shutting down revolutionary tendencies when they get organized.

[Rusty Shackleford]

It should be noted that the SP has a historical precedent of kicking out/shutting down revolutionary tendencies when they get organized.
to add to this.


if you/anyone are/is serious about the SP USA then talk to Chegitz Guevara first.

[Jose Gracchus]

right now the parties in the US are not actual parties of the working class... yet.


the PSL falls under this category as well. We are not the vanguard and only in times of revolutionary struggle in a revolutionary period will the vanguard come into actual being and a party of the working class actually develop. The PSL hopes to come into this position, obviously but that is besides the point.


more parties means more waiting and bickering.

either join an organization you agree with or work in between organizations as an independent communist.

No organization is perfect. and a party of the working class or its vanguard (when it really is the vanguard) is perfect. perfection is utopian. reality is imperfect and radical.


so, do work. if you dont like the organizations that currently exist. so be it. but dont use it as an excuse to not advocate communism. join student clubs on your campus that have political characteristics and do the entryist thing and advocate real struggle.

i did that for some time. and what you will learn is liberals are shit.

but. dont give up.


do work in the interest of the working class.

This be why maybe not every PSL member is a total shitheel, and not everyone you guys educate turns out like manic.

[Rusty Shackleford]

This be why maybe not every PSL member is a total shitheel, and not everyone you guys educate turns out like manic.
c'mon. do you seriously have to attack manic?

[Jose Gracchus]

The man argues dishonestly. You do not, take it as a compliment. I am proud of you for admitting you're not a 'working-class party' and 'the vanguard' via say-so, but actually are just trying to get out there and do something so maybe that can be built. That's very conscious and realistic, and better than most (of any sect) can manage.

[Rusty Shackleford]

I am proud of you for admitting you're not a 'working-class party' and 'the vanguard' via say-so, but actually are just trying to get out there and do something so maybe that can be built. That's very conscious and realistic, and better than most (of any sect) can manage.


i just want to clarify that we are not-not a working class party or its vanguard. We are a communist organization with revolutionary intent. Membership is growing. Manic is right about that. And we are of the orientation of a workers' party ideologically, and as time goes on, more and more so materially. We are new, but we are constantly evolving.

Im mostly just aware of what is going on in Northern California (and Sacto and SF more acutely) but i can verify that we are growing. Yes our membership may not be in the multiple thousands (i dont know the number tbh) but every person who passes candidacy(which is a 6 month process) is a MAJOR development. For that kind of dedication to be happening is really impressive to me for a revolutionary movement in US that has basically been crippled since the 30s.

In fact, i just found out we have a new branch/proto-branch in the region.


but seriously. im not going to get any farther into the technicalities or wahtever of us being a party and us calling ourselves a party.

IMO manic is more knowledgeable about the PSL than i am. I believe he has been involved for longer than i have.

Also, on the issue of Membership and Candidacy (for the sake of this thread about organizations in the US)

I was really an anomaly how i was recruited to the PSL*. the way it is most of the time is we work with people for a while and they get to know us and we get to know them while doing mass work. At some point, they ask to join us or we ask them to join. If they and we accept them into candidacy then they go through a 6 month process of 12 classes (either in person or through conference calls) on 12 subjects on the basics of marxism, leninism, socialism, communism, capitalism, feminism, the environment, anti-imperialism, reform & revolution, LGBTQ issues and so on.

but it is the basics and once this is completed (along side doing actual physical work for the party) they become members. But that is not the end of development ideologically and politically. it is an ongoing process that is learned through dedication to struggle and reading.

not everyone knows what marxism-leninism is and we dont expect everyone to. That is what the candidacy period is for.




*I saw a person(who is now my comrade) with the 'Liberation' paper at an education rally almost 2 years ago and at the time i was in the SP-USA but after a while i was pretty regretful about joining the SP (no offense to SP people) and still being new to most theories(i was kind of an anarchist ideologically but was beginning to shift more towards leninism) i ended up hanging out with my now comrades and discussing politics and what not. A few months later i began my candidacy. "but but but selling papers doesnt work!":rolleyes: