Far Right ideologies

[Viet Minh]

What are the main far right ideologies in your opinion, why are the far right? I would say

White Nationalism
National Socialism
Fascism

On the basis that they all entail absolute rule by an 'elite' class or group, in these cases usually based on race and cultural/ social grouping.

[ComradeMan]

What are the main far right ideologies in your opinion, and why are they fas

Juche! :lol:
Seriously, is it really necessary to outline them though?

[Nox]

Depends on whether you're talking about the economic right or another type of right.

I'll just throw National Socialism out there, the vast majority of its followers are either uneducated or have had a girlfriend/boyfriend leave them for someone of a different race :p

[Viet Minh]

Juche! :lol:
Seriously, is it really necessary to outline them though?

Probably not, but it does help me to understand the underlying principles of such ideologies, so it may help others here too.

EDIT: Add Third Positionism, generally agreed to be far right though I'm not 100% on why

EDIT 2: This might actually be more appropriate for OI learning sorry

[ComradeMan]

Probably not, but it does help me to understand the underlying principles of such ideologies, so it may help others here too.

EDIT: Add Third Positionism, generally agreed to be far right though I'm not 100% on why

EDIT 2: This might actually be more appropriate for OI learning sorry

Third positionism was as far as I remember off the top of my head coined because of the difficulty in fitting fascism, and subsequently Nazism, within the "traditional" left-right spectrum.

[Manic Impressive]

loyalism

[Viet Minh]

Depends on whether you're talking about the economic right or another type of right.

I'll just throw National Socialism out there, the vast majority of its followers are either uneducated or have had a girlfriend/boyfriend leave them for someone of a different race :p

The two are not mutually exclusive imo, as the economy moves to the right (ie towards a free market) socially the country moves to the right as well, as the corporations begin to control Government and society.

And yeah National Socialists are idiots, I think a majority of modern-day ns would have been sent to the gas chambers

[Viet Minh]

loyalism

Loyalist to the UK? That only makes sense if the UK is a far right country, which I suppose is debatable but by the same standards Irish Nationalists are Fascist too.

[Viet Minh]

Third positionism was as far as I remember off the top of my head coined because of the difficulty in fitting fascism, and subsequently Nazism, within the "traditional" left-right spectrum.

Like National Socialism third positionism seems to be a strange mix of patriotism and romantic ideals

[Nox]

I guess neo-liberalism would be far economic right, add that to the list if you want.

[Sasha]

Third positionism was as far as I remember off the top of my head coined because of the difficulty in fitting fascism, and subsequently Nazism, within the "traditional" left-right spectrum.


nah, AFAIK its always been an self styled label for the far right to catch the workers in an corporatist agenda.
the term itself comes out of the cold war era and capitalizes on the false paradigm between east-block style "communism" and western capitalism but the tactic is of course both far older and still in use today.
Its pretty smart, you claim to be an painfree way out out of the inevitable conflict between socialism and capitalism by claiming to somehow having an magic formula than can make both sides happy and not only avoid turmoil, uncertainty and bloody revolutions but instead even gives ultimate stability by balancing both interests.
while in reality of course, like shown from mussolini's italy to gaddaffi's libya, sooner than later its the unions that get banned and the bosses that get only fatter while the workers toil with an fascist boot in their neck.

and while "third positionism" has only been used by (wanabe) regimes we would consider fascist (only doubt might be about modern day peronism) the "left" utilized the same trick often enough, from euro-communism to new-labor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Way_%28centrism%29)

[Tifosi]

Loyalist to the UK? That only makes sense if the UK is a far right country

Well yes, the UK does have some pretty vulger policies when it comes to things like, say immigration. And Loyalist gangs have helped the authoritys out when they go out attacking immigrants. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8106306.stm). Never mind how Loyalists defend the British state at virtually every turn.

[DinodudeEpic]

laissez-faire =/= far right

Even economically, most far-right groups in history prefer third position economics, neo-feudalism, or planned economies. Laissez-faire is merely a feature of the American far right. (The Tea Party.)

There are 2 main camps of far-right ideologies.

Fascism
.Third position economics
.Mobilization of the population
.National unity
.'End of class warfare'
.All-powerful state
.Revolutionary rhetoric against the current system
.Strong national/racial identity
.Supports republics over monarchies
.Appeals to all classes

Reactionaryism
.Mostly neo-feudalistic or planned economies. In America, Laissez-faire.
.Demobilization of the population
.Nationalism, but also with support for the upper class
.All-powerful state and aristocrats
.Supports current system or wants to revert back to a previous system
.Strong national/racial/religious identity
.Supports monarchies over republics (Sometimes republics though.)
.Appeals to the Aristocracy

[eyedrop]

Isn't it kinda obvious that it is the popular right that is the main threat? The other options listed in the first post are fringe movements While it is the modern anti-immigration parties/movements that represents the greatest threats ass they have been growing more acceptable over the last 10 years.

[Viet Minh]

Well yes, the UK does have some pretty vulger policies when it comes to things like, say immigration. And Loyalist gangs have helped the authoritys out when they go out attacking immigrants. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8106306.stm). Never mind how Loyalists defend the British state at virtually every turn.

Immigration is far higher in the UK than it is in Ireland, whichI believe is still one of the whitest countries in Western Europe, if not the World. Thats not to say they're necessarily racist as such but they don't allow a huge amount of immigration so again by the same standards irish Republicans would be Fascist too. The attack you linked was not linked to loyalist groups


Police do not believe paramilitaries were involved in the attacks.
There has been condemnation from all the political parties.

Both the UDA and UVF condemned those attacks as well, in fact the UDA formed an anti-racist group (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/loyalists-get-funds-to-oppose-racists-1666395.html) to talk publicly to youths in loyalist areas. There is a clear agenda by right wing groups to infliltrate and use loyalist paramilitaries, and of course left wing republcians also love to portray loyalists as fascist/ racist/ nazi etc because it gives more credence to their own cause. Luckily in the main loyalist groups such as the orange order, UVF and now even UDA reject the BNP (who btw have never stood for election in NI) and other such racist groups.

Without defending or bellittling these attacks in any way, I think part of the reason is that non white immigrants always move into loyalist areas, or neutral ones, so that is where they are attacked. And of course that doesn't necessarily mean its 'loyalists' attacking them, loyalists tend to attack republican areas and vice versa. And of course we can't immediately assume white on ethnic minority is automatically a hate crime, there have been numerous shady deals between the UVF and Chinese Triads for example, some of these have undoubtedly been due basically to a fallout between groups of gangsters.

The loyalist movement historically is not associated with fascism, although it is an unfortunate growing trend since the 70's, perhaps a growing cou8nter-culture to republican socialism. In the 1800's there was a black man by the name of George Henry Thompson who was leading a loyalist mob in the Shankill evicting nationalists, in retaliation for protestants being attacked and evicted in the pound. He was later arrested by police and went to jail. The UDA, when they made arms deals with (I think) Combat 18, sent one of their non white members, a mixed race man called Louis Scott to make the deal, to make the point they were not interested in racial politics. Later Andre and Ihab Shoukri, who are half Egyptian half British, became leaders of the UDA, and later Ihab went on to form the breakaway South East Antrim brigade with Andre and his younger brother Yuk. The Orange Order have black members in the UK and beyond, including an entirely black Manchester lodge, and several black loyalist band members, the guy who leads the pride of norris green and some in Northern Ireland too I've been told. Certainly on the 12th in Belfast there are many non white people in attendance, including asian middle eastern black and chinese/ south east asian. I have friends on social networking sites who are loyalist from all over, Sri Lanka, Indonesia, Hong Kong, and one Sicilian loyalist! The Hong Kong guy told me his brother was in jail for UVF related activities. In comparison I have never heard of any non whie members of Republican parties or paramilitaries, although I could be wrong. To be fair I'm not actively engaged with them so I can't speak for them. Gustav Wilhelm Wolff (of Harland and Wolff) was Jewish, Chaim Herzong fondly remembered his upbringing in Belfast, and Benjamin Disraeli was somewhat supportive of the loyalists. The oo also have lodges in Ghana, Togo, Nigeria, all of the members are black. Further afield the oo has lodges in the bronx, manhattan, and Canada, including one Mohawk Native american and the Italian Canadian lodge.
And we couldn't have a serious NI political debate without mentioning football :lol: Queens Park, the original protestant team in Glasgow, had the Worlds frst ever black player, Andrew Watson, who was also capped for Scotland and was on the board of directors. Queens Park can also be admired for their resistance of professionalism, remaining an amateur (but relatively successful) club to this day. The east coast protestant team Heart of Midlothian signed John Walker, originally from the Sudan. Later on in 1914 Rangers signed Walter Tull, originally from Barbados, although tragically he never got a chance to play as was killed in ww1. He joined the British Army, becoming the first ever black infantry officer, fought at the Somme and was recommended for a military cross for his bravery. Gil Heron, father of musician Gil Scott Heron celtics first ever black player whom they signed in 1951, was actually a rangers fan.

[ComradeMan]

,,,

In Italy it tends to refer to neo-fascism.

[Apoi_Viitor]

Feudalism
Monarchism
Primitivism

[Luís Henrique]

A few that aren't immediately reducible to fascism:

Ultramontane Catholicism
"Political Islam"
Tea-Party like "libertarianism"
Randite "objectivism"
Hayek's neoliberalism
Agrarianism

Luís Henrique

[Ocean Seal]

Anarcho-capitalism, minarchism, and libertarian capitalism. I would argue that neoliberalism in all of its forms, especially those that obsess with anti-statism are reactionary. Less rules for our oppressors so that they can become more efficient at exploiting us == reactionary.

[LOLseph Stalin]

To be honest, it's really hard to classify any ideology as just "far left" or "far right" since the political spectrum has more dimensions than that. Fascism may be far right socially, but economically it's actually more left-centre. Libertarianism is another example; it is far right economically while being far left socially.

[Susurrus]

To be honest, it's really hard to classify any ideology as just "far left" or "far right" since the political spectrum has more dimensions than that. Fascism may be far right socially, but economically it's actually more left-centre. Libertarianism is another example; it is far right economically while being far left socially.

Voila:
http://www.politicalcompass.org/images/bothaxes.gif

[Tim Finnegan]

Eh, the two-dimensional axis is a libertarian hobby-horse which they use to try and set themselves apart from your more typical reactionaries. Nobody outside of the internet actually takes it seriously. If you want to talk about politics in terms of more than a linear left-right axis, which can indeed be useful, then you actually have to talk about political blocs as they manifest themselves, and not just expand the fallacy of that axis to an extra dimension.

Edit: I haven't seen that version before. What the hell is the "social scale" supposed to refer to? :confused:

[LOLseph Stalin]

Voila:
http://www.politicalcompass.org/images/bothaxes.gif

Yea, that's the scale I was indeed referring to. Fascism would be in the top centre left while libertarianism would be in the bottom right.

[Susurrus]

Yea, that's the scale I was indeed referring to. Fascism would be in the top centre left while libertarianism would be in the bottom right.

Fascism in theory would be in the top center, in practice top center right.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Fascism in theory would be in the top center, in practice top center right.

Perhaps, but it's still quite centrist, at least economically.

[Viet Minh]

Eh, the two-dimensional axis is a libertarian hobby-horse which they use to try and set themselves apart from your more typical reactionaries. Nobody outside of the internet actually takes it seriously. If you want to talk about politics in terms of more than a linear left-right axis, which can indeed be useful, then you actually have to talk about political blocs as they manifest themselves, and not just expand the fallacy of that axis to an extra dimension.

Edit: I haven't seen that version before. What the hell is the "social scale" supposed to refer to? :confused:

Basically its the state control over individuals as opposed to the economy. A totalitarian government would be far right on the social scale, a minarchist government would be left. The theory being that an economically leftist country could still be authoritarian, and a free market economy could be libertarian.

In my opinion the entire premise of the double axis is fallacious, the real left right scale comes in the power balance between the individual and the corporations, ie the more power is held by the latter, the less freedom is had by the former.

[Tim Finnegan]

Basically its the state control over individuals as opposed to the economy. A totalitarian government would be far right on the social scale, a minarchist government would be left. The theory being that an economically leftist country could still be authoritarian, and a free market economy could be libertarian.
Oh, I get that, I'm just wandering why they picked that label. I don't think that it really means anything, in itself.

[The Man]

I do not believe anyone has mentioned Objectivism.

[alegab]

I do not believe anyone has mentioned Objectivism.
Ehh

A few that aren't immediately reducible to fascism:
(...)
Tea-Party like "libertarianism"
Randite "objectivism"

[Nial Fossjet]

What's wrong with

Agrarianism?

[t.shonku]

What are the main far right ideologies in your opinion, why are the far right? I would say

White Nationalism
National Socialism
Fascism

On the basis that they all entail absolute rule by an 'elite' class or group, in these cases usually based on race and cultural/ social grouping.


The whole concept of far right varies from country to country, but one thing is common about all of them and that is all of them are racist or communal in nature ( also most far right are head less and don't think logically like we do). For example - In Asian countries like India far right is generally referred to the Hindu nationalists like BJP and RSS whose sole agenda is to wipe out Muslims , Christians, Buddhists, Tribals and Dalits from face of India and make India into a Hindu only state, the Japanese nationalists were also a type of far right during 1930s they killed thousands of Chinese and Korean in name of Nationalism.


FRANKLY SPEAKING I HAVE SEEN A LOT OF FAR RIGHT AND THEY ARE OF NO GOOD , YOU SIMPLY CAN'T REASON WITH THEM,THEY ARE BRAINWASHED , THESE PEOPLE ARE SICK AND NEED MEDICAL HELP

[Klaatu]

I like this site
http://politicalcompass.org/

I always bash Libertarians, but found that I am actually more Libertarian than Authoritarian, by their questionaire.
(the politics chart goes left-right, and up-down too, like a grid)
The up-down tells how much you value personal freedom, I guess)

[Agent Equality]

Monarchism, Nationalism, Fascism, Nazism, Imperialism,etc.....Anything that really tries to uphold traditional hierarchies and the seperation and divisions of men.

[RGacky3]

No one is a monarchist, very very few people are fascist, very very few people are Nazis.

I'd say the major enemy today are neo-liberals, and corporatists (under the corporatist umbrella are libertarians who's ideas always follow their aims).