November 17th

[Faceless]

They are falling apart now as their leadership is put on trial. Other similar groups are bound to pop up though. Would you support them?

[The Feral Underclass]

I voted that they where terrorists, but not because I think they are evildoers as GWB would have everyone believe...They do give Marxists a bad name. The principles of Marxism is to have a popular revolution with educated workers fighting to achieve the overthrow of capitalism....bombing people does not put the struggle into context and pushes the workers into a hatred of marxist ideals.

Acts such as these do have a place, when the revolution has started, such tactics will be necessary. But for now, while we are not fighting the bourgeoisie, we must replace bombs with books and try and persuade the workers, through education, that Marxism or in my case anarchism, is a viable alternative to capitalism :ph34r:

[nezvanova]

:huh: I've never heard of this until now...could someone please explain?

[Faceless]

Basically N17 are a marxist urban guerrilla group in Greece. Their trademark weapon is the .45 caliber pistol and they have been responsible for several assassinations and bombing attempts. They remained remarkably well hidden until recently and now they're going to fall apart. You should do some googling to find out more. :)

[nezvanova]

okay, will do. Thanks for the info :)

[Man in the White Shirt]

Th reason they remained so well hidden for so long is the did not try and broaden their support, they took in no new people. If no one new joins your group there is no chance it is a spy or imformat. However, this means that there is no way to start new cells to strike back all over the place constently. You have to remeber there was only like 20 of them the while time. The reason they are coming apart is a couple turned themselves into police a couple of years back I believe.

A new group did come into the field about a month ago, a new leftist group did bom something, sorry but I can not remeber what or who, however it did happen.

I think this accurate, however if is not please tell me, of course with you people I reeally do not need to ask. It's understood.

[Faceless]

Yeah, I did read about a new group who made a bombing in solidarity for the leadership of N17. I forgot what they were called but I'm sure it's evidence that these groups will keep reappearing.

[pedro san pedro]

i voted they are terriosts for the same reason as anarchist tension. wonder if anyone has heard of the weather underground, who launced a bombing campaign in the usa, in protest against the vietnam war, and in the hope of kickstarting the revolution.
they, surprisingly, marginlised themselves and "the movement" greatly. we must educate the masses first.

dropping bombs on iraqis is not a good way to bring about democracy.
bombing westeners is not a good way to bring about the revolution.

i agree that violence will be needed at some point in the revolution, but this is neither the time nor place

[Marxist in Nebraska]

First of all, I voted "don't know" because I am not very familiar with this group.

I agree with pedro on this one. Guerrilla violence from a tiny cell is not terribly useful. We need a mass movement.

[Iepilei]

It's a difficult situation. While I do believe some of their actions were justified, the overall fact they did not try to rally anyone makes it difficult to support such a group in full.

The revolution is an attack by the proletariat... not against it.

[YKTMX]

The last one. They are truly ridicilous. They released one photo with a picture of Charlie and Che beside a few pipe bombs and a few guns and suddenly they are "Marxist" terrorists. The whole idea of "urban guerilla warfare" is totally absurd, it sounds like the wet dream of some angsty teenager.

[El Commandante]

Am I correct in thinking that this was the group that killed a British diplomat in Athens in the last few years whilst he was in his car?


Groups which are so insular do protect their members as they have no chance of being infilitrated by spies and traitors but it does really limit the scope of their success as there are no replacements to members who are detained. Also this type of group prevents mass support from being generated around the group which means that in the short term they may have some success such as planting bombs they have very little chance of success in the long run.

[Iepilei]

Also assassinated a CIA director who was in Athens.

[YKTMX]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2003, 08:43 PM
Also assassinated a CIA director who was in Athens.
So they hired another one. :unsure:

[Iepilei]

Originally posted by YouKnowTheyMurderedX+Oct 20 2003, 08:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (YouKnowTheyMurderedX @ Oct 20 2003, 08:44 PM)
[email protected] 20 2003, 08:43 PM
Also assassinated a CIA director who was in Athens.
So they hired another one. :unsure: [/b]
like the damn plague, they are...

[MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr]

I don&#39;t see anything wrong with assinating prominate capitalists and people with key positions within a capitalist government.

[Faceless]

I don&#39;t see anything wrong with assinating prominate capitalists and people with key positions within a capitalist government. Me neither but perhaps the question is whether or not these assassinations help to promote the cause or do nothing but alienate people from it. I couldn&#39;t give a damn about some CIA bloke but if his death provokes a negative reaction...

[MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr]

Well, its one less capitalist pig looking for people to oppress.

[Kez]

Faceless has it bang on

[CompadreGuerrillera]

well, the Italian anarchist Bresci, and his Polish freind assassinated their leaders, did it bring their ppl any closer to freedom? no. another ruler rose up in their place:( its a real shame, but i dont think that small renegade groups do much good for the revolution or for freedom on a general, as the Wether underground SEPERATED themselves from educating the ppl, and didnt work as a tool of the ppl.


A group that believes something that starts off can take two roads, one of sepearation from the rest and "guerilla" renegade activities, or the group can go with whats best for their original goals. Lets use a non-Revolutionary ideal: Islam and the spread of it, missionaries would work better than Fundamentalist Guerilla groups that seperate themselves from the rest of the Islamic population.

Its almost exactly the same for us

[Marxist in Nebraska]

I do not find assasinations particularly useful. Our problem, the capitalist/imperialist system is global. You can kill each and every leader, and another will simply rise up and take their place. Everyone is expendable. Everyone is replacable, at least from the vantage point of the system.

[ComradeRobertRiley]

I dont know enough about them, my neighbour (a communist) thinks their terrorists