I have an idea.

[∞]

Why doesn't the US and Norway have a prisoner exchange program? Where Mumia Abdul Jamal is traded with Anders.

That is unless you want Anders staying here.



NY Daily News:

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2011/07/29/alg_halden2.jpg Rex Features/AP
Inmates at Halden don't fear the showers because every prisoner has a private bathroom.

Halden Prison

Do you think prisons should be equipped with perks like rock-climbing, private bathrooms and music classes?






Iranian attorney in stoning case, Mohammad Mostafaei, applies for political asylum in Norway (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2010/08/09/2010-08-09_iran_atty_hides_in_stoning_case.html)
German tourist hailed as hero for rescue during Norway massacre (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2011/07/25/2011-07-25_norway_massacre_german_tourist_hailed_as_hero_f or_rescuing_30_more_than_hour_bef.html)
Norway cop delay cost lives (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2011/07/24/2011-07-24_cop_delay_gave_him_90_minutes_to_kill_maniac_lu red_some_to_their_death_others_ra.html)






Confessed Norwegian mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik will be climbing the walls if he winds up in the country's luxurious prison - the rock-climbing walls.
And he's likely to have a personal trainer - not a prison guard - making sure he doesn't go over the wall.
Such is life in the Halden Prison (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Halden+Prison), where doing hard time means doing without HBO (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Home+Box+Office+Inc.) - and where inmates don't fear the showers because every prisoner has a private bathroom.
"Depriving a person of their freedom for a period of time is sufficient punishment in itself without any need whatsoever for harsh prison conditions," a Norwegian prison official told The Daily Mail.
Evidently it's also punishment enough for killing 76 people in cold blood.
NORWAY TERROR ATTACKS: PHOTOS (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/galleries/explosion_rocks_downtown_oslo_norway/explosion_rocks_downtown_oslo_norway.html)
There is no death penalty in Norway (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Norway) and the most time Breivik can do is 21 years, although a prisoner still considered a threat can have his sentence extended five years at a time.
Breivik won't be looking out on the world from behind bars - there aren't any in the two-year-old facility.
http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2011/07/29/alg_halden%20.jpg
Prisoners can shoot hoops or practice their climbing skills at the gym. (Rex Features (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Rex+Features+Ltd.)/AP)
Instead, Breivik has a window in his cell - and a flat screen TV to see what else he's missing.
Each prisoner gets a mini-fridge to store snacks, and there are miles of jogging trails winding through thick forests on the 75-acre site to work off the extra pounds.
Currently, the 32-year-old right wing extremist is in solitary confinement.
http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2011/07/29/alg_halden3.jpg
Here's a spacious courtyard where inmates can unwind. (Rex Features/AP)
Should he wind up in Halden, Breivik would be encouraged to join music classes, or jam with the prison rock band or play soccer with the guards - none of whom carry guns.
A right wing extremist, Breivik fancied himself a defender of Christian values against what he perceived to be hordes of invading Islamic immigrants.
In his 1,500-page manifesto, Breivik offered some bizarre advice to other would-be "badass warriors."
http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2011/07/29/alg_halden4.jpg
Inmates can host their families for visits inside these cozy cabins. (Rex Features/AP)
"The police usually 'leak' 'retarded looking' photos to the press after raiding the cells apartment after an operation," he wrote.
So Breivik recommended sprucing up, working out - and investing in a good head shot.
"Visit a male salon if possible and apply light makeup," he wrote. "Yes, I know - this might sound repulsive to big badass warriors like us, but we must look our best for the shoot."
NORWAY MASSACRE SUSPECT ANDERS BEHRING BREIVIK OBSESSED WITH HIS IMAGE (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2011/07/27/2011-07-27_norway_massacre_suspect_anders_behring_breivik_ obsessed_with_his_image.html#ixzz1TMHVujZ8)
The latest batch of bizarre Breivik ramblings surfaced as Norway set up an independent commission to investigate their worst mass murder since World War II.
Norwegian investigators believe Breivik acted alone last Friday when he bombed an Oslo (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Oslo) government building and then went on a shooting rampage at a nearby summer camp.
Still, they have asked their European counterparts to check whether Breivik was cahoots with other extremist organizations.


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2011/07/28/2011-07-28_norway_massacre_suspect_anders_behring_breiviks _potential_prison_digs_equipped_w.html#ixzz1TSSeHz CS

[∞]

Or weee can rhuirrbilate him!

Andhers honeeey please don't kill 70 people again k? Or else we'll make you stay in a prison nicer than most people's apartments.

[AnonymousOne]

How dare Norway not abuse it's prisoners. This is an outrage.

[∞]

ikr? Mass murderers deserve rock climbing and basketball.

[AnonymousOne]

Yeah, we should always treat people like scum. That really helps rehabilitate people and gets them reintegrated with society.

I mean, we can ignore the fact that Norway's system only has a recidivism rate of 20%, we shouldn't be kind to prisoners.

[∞]

You want a grown man who killed 70 people to be "reintegrated" to society.
Rehab is for drug-addicts and mentally ill people. Not someone who has no mental illness whatsoever. Serving twenty years here for killing 70 people is like serving a couple weeks for killing one person.

And he is scum.

[Metacomet]

Shocked. Prisoners should be beaten and raped daily. it's the only way they'll learn.

[∞]

Shocked. Prisoners should be beaten and raped daily. it's the only way they'll learn.

For killing 70 people thats being nice. He deserves much worse.

Stop talking about prisoners. I'm talking specifically about this guy.

[AnonymousOne]

You want a grown man who killed 70 people to be "reintegrated" to society.
Rehab is for drug-addicts and mentally ill people. Not someone who has no mental illness whatsoever. Serving twenty years here for killing 70 people is like serving a couple weeks for killing one person.

And he is scum.

Fuck yes, I want him reintegrated into society. Why, is it better using resources to have someone live in misery for the rest of their life?

I've always been a strong proponent of restorative justice;

"Restorative justice is fundamentally different from retributive justice. It is justice that puts energy into the future, not into what is past. It focuses on what needs to be healed, what needs to be repaid, what needs to be learned in the wake of crime. It looks at what needs to be strengthened if such things are not to happen again."

Susan Sharpe, Restorative Justice: A Vision for Healing and Change, 1998


If we're simply doing it out of vengeance we're wasting our time and resources.

[∞]

You guys are insane.

[thesadmafioso]

I almost always support an approach to crime which treats societal ills and conditions to be the route cause of such, one which is inclined to support the rehabilitation of prisoners, but I simply cannot bring myself to uphold those principles unilaterally. Especially in this situation. Mass political murder with a motivation based in the politics of the far right cannot be treated in the same fashion as other crimes, this is a situation which invalidates the finer qualities of justice by the nature of its scale and political undertones.

[∞]

Jesus Christ people here are acting like he just got caught smoking pot or something.

[Sensible Socialist]

I know we shouldn't base criminal justice systems around a tiny minority of people (in this case mass murderers) but there has to be something more than rock walls and private cabins. Someone should pull a Jack Ruby on this fucker.

[L.A.P.]

This made me realize how fucked up the American prison system is. For Christ's sake, I didn't realize how uncommon it is in the Western world for prisoners to not get viciously raped. That's fucked up.

[Metacomet]

I do think the rock walls, flat screens, and private cabins are a bit much. But see nothing wrong with a lot of the other stuff.

[Nox]

Rofl that's more of a 5-star hotel than a prison.

If I was Norwegian and poor I would go rob a bank, get arrested and live a high quality of life in that prison :cool:

[Susurrus]

Seriously, Julian Assange should've fled to Norway.

[pax et aequalitas]

Rofl that's more of a 5-star hotel than a prison.

If I was Norwegian and poor I would go rob a bank, get arrested and live a high quality of life in that prison :cool:

That reminds me of a case in America where committed some small crime in order to get into prison to get medical treatment, because he couldn't pay it himself.

[Delenda Carthago]

This made me realize how fucked up the American prison system is. For Christ's sake, I didn't realize how uncommon it is in the Western world for prisoners to not get viciously raped. That's fucked up.

not all the western prisons look like this darling...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_pZDDp0Risfg/Sbft1CI6blI/AAAAAAAACSU/Rlz1G6DqApY/s400/korydalos1.jpg

this is a typical greek one.

[maskerade]

I'm pretty sure Breivik will not be receiving the usual treatment from guards as well as other inmates. Who would have a jam session with this guy? I'm pretty sure he will get brutally beaten in prison regardless of the niceties Norway offers its convicts.

And I don't think reintegration will happen either; Norway will never release Breivik, they will extend his sentence 5 years at a time until he dies.

[Dr Mindbender]

Here is the thing, what some of the treat-em-nice proponents are failing to acknowledge was that unlike most crimes that are economic in motive, this one was entirely politically motivated. regardless of how you treat him he is probably going to still hold the views that led him to commit the crime that put him there in the first place.

I don't think he deserves to be rewarded through tame imprisonment but he needs to be kept out of public circulation indefinitely.

Someone suggested in a previous thread utilising one of the many islands in the arctic circle that are under Norwegian jurisdiction. I'd go with that.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

The same pathology which produced Breivak is actually the same pathology behind the brutality of US prisons. Do you seriously want a scumbag like Breivak to win by making us like him?

There's a Nietzsche quote somewhere, "Beware those in whom the urge to punish is too strong".

[Aspiring Humanist]

As dumb as it is to be upset over him not getting raped, Breviks going to get beaten to death by a fellow inmate for sure

[CommunityBeliever]

The tragedy is not that he is not being raped (nobody should be raped) it is that he has conditions better then many people on the outside. I think this might be caused by something called "capitalism."

[Q]

And I don't think reintegration will happen either; Norway will never release Breivik, they will extend his sentence 5 years at a time until he dies.

Actually, if I got the media reporting right, that five year extension can only be applied twice, after a 21 year maximum sentence. So, given that he's 32 now, he'll be probably free again at 63.

They might change that law now though, who knows.

[Q]

The tragedy is [...] that he has conditions better then many people on the outside.

You know then what the general standard of living in Norway is? Norway scores very high on both the income equality index (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality) (spot 5 according to the Gini index (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_coefficient)) and the GDP per capita (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita) (spot 4 or 5, depending on which list you follow).

Ontopic: I also support a justice system that is geared towards letting people participate again within society, as opposed to one that is out to take "revenge" to "make you pay". In fact, Norway's system evidently works, as this site (http://frugalzeitgeist.com/recidivism-rate-in-norway/) for example reports:


Recidivism seems to sit [in Norway] at only around 20% and in May 2010 incarceration was only at 71 per 100,000 compared to USA’s 2009 figures of 743 per 100,000 and a recidivism rate of somewhere between 45-65%.

Surely as socialists, communists and anarchists, we should focus on something that both makes us better as a society and genuinely helps those that are incarcerated?

[deLarge]

So, can I move to Norway and live in their prison? It looks like a dorm. I spent all my monthly income for a studio apartment with less amenities, though there is convenient street access to drug dealers and hookers. And a scenic view of the freeway!

That said, you can't argue with success. And wanting retribution-justice to satisfy a voyeuristic revenge impulse is absolutely reactionary.

[The Douche]

:rolleyes:

I smell another ban for rape apologism.

[Luís Henrique]

Really, can't we restrict or ban imbeciles who support mistreatement of prisoners? We do that for much less!

Luís Henrique

[Luís Henrique]

I know we shouldn't base criminal justice systems around a tiny minority of people (in this case mass murderers) but there has to be something more than rock walls and private cabins. Someone should pull a Jack Ruby on this fucker.

Do you volunteer?

Luís Henrique

[Zealot]

Thanks dude, if I'm ever in Norway i'll be sure to check out this hotel.

edit: oops i should've read through it a bit more...

[Zealot]

On a more serious note - I'm not advocating the mistreatment of prisoners but i'll be honest, that place almost looks better than some of the apartments I've had to live in

[UnknownPerson]

The concept of 'blame / punishment' is pretty stupid. We should know that the only rational action to do would be preventing crimes from happening again. This may be done indirectly by blaming someone and getting them attacked and beaten by the society or it's services, but it doesn't solve the problem of stopping the crime from happening again most of the time.

We should act directly to stop the crime from happening again, that is, psychologically re-program and re-condition the person, and so on. If the person is permanently damaged, then the only solution is to isolate him or her from the society, but it doesn't mean that they should be treated like shit. They may create contributions to 'their' excluded society and the main society while living separately.

[manic expression]

Maybe emotions are clouding my judgment...but perhaps someone can explain to me why the sack of scum shouldn't be put up against a wall.

[#FF0000]

Maybe emotions are clouding my judgment...but perhaps someone can explain to me why the sack of scum shouldn't be put up against a wall.

Because it is a bad idea for us to support the state killing people.

[The Dark Side of the Moon]

I might go to prison in Norway....