Aliens and Communism

[Red Future]

Right so lets consider the possibility that a future communist society on Earth occurs and it comes into contact with a hierarchical Alien civilization which has a clear and visible stratification in it.

Should the Earth Communists spread the ideas to the other races and should International Communism also apply to non-human races.What do we think on this.?

[OhYesIdid]

Well, depends on whether you're a marxist-leninist (who would advocate building communism on earth and only later exporting revolution) or a trot (who would go KILL THEM ALL). Although it all depends on who has the technological and militaristic upper hand.

[CommunityBeliever]

It depends upon the conditions of there civilisation. The aliens could be radically different from us, so in some ways communism might not make sense for them.

[Black Sheep]

We think that this thread should be moved to chit chat ASAP.

[thesadmafioso]

'Socialism on one planet' is absolute nonsense! The universe obviously needs to experience a permanent intergalactic revolution in order for communism to see success. Workers of the universe, unite!

Also, I agree with this being moved to chit chat entirely.

[CommieTroll]

'Socialism on one planet' is absolute nonsense! The universe obviously needs to experience a permanent intergalactic revolution in order for communism to see success. Workers of the universe, unite!

Also, I agree with this being moved to chit chat entirely.

Sounds like the next Star Wars movie:laugh: Has anyone pondered the idea that alien races have already figured out what we are trying to achieve?

[Rafiq]

If Aliens have the technological capability to travel to Earth, they must be running communism

[CommunityBeliever]

Socialism in one universe?

Workers of the multiverse unite!

[Red Future]

Sounds like the next Star Wars movie:laugh: Has anyone pondered the idea that alien races have already figured out what we are trying to achieve?

Potentially yes this could occur

[OhYesIdid]

Sounds like the next Star Wars movie:laugh:

Red Wars? that's be so fucking epic.

[thesadmafioso]

Red Wars? that's be so fucking epic.

Yoda can be replaced with Marx, Lenin can be Luke, Tsar Nicholas the II can be the Emperor, Kerensky can play Vader, Trotsky can be Han, and Stalin can be some random solider with one line who is secretly plotting to take over the Rebellion at the end of Return of the Jedi.

Lenin based much of his theory on Marx just as Luke was trained by Yoda, Lenin and Trotsky worked closely during the revolution much like Luke and Han, the provisional government replaced the Tsar almost like the scene where Vader defeats the Emperor, only to be 'defeated' or luke, or Lenin in this case.

[Magón]

Not if they're this kind of Alien.

http://collider.com/wp-content/image-base/Movies/A/Alien/alien_xenomorph_01.jpg

[Metacomet]

They'd probably invade. drive us back to the world capital. They will have not checked the weather however, and freeze to death and enable us to have our glorious counter offensive. We will then drive them off our planet, then conquer half of theirs.

[xub3rn00dlex]

Sounds like the next Star Wars movie:laugh: Has anyone pondered the idea that alien races have already figured out what we are trying to achieve?


If Aliens have the technological capability to travel to Earth, they must be running communism

This is exactly what I was thinking. Who's to say that any alien civilization wouldn't view our social structure as completely backwards? Why would we be the ones to spread communism to alien civilizations, when it could in fact be the very opposite. Or even, for arguments sake, communistic ideas could be senseless to alien civilizations in the greater scope of it all, and instead be replaced by something even more radical than what we are trying to accomplish within our own species. One has to wonder how much more technologically advanced and capable a species can become relative to us, and how their environment affects them.

[Psy]

This is exactly what I was thinking. Who's to say that any alien civilization wouldn't view our social structure as completely backwards? Why would we be the ones to spread communism to alien civilizations, when it could in fact be the very opposite. Or even, for arguments sake, communistic ideas could be senseless to alien civilizations in the greater scope of it all, and instead be replaced by something even more radical than what we are trying to accomplish within our own species. One has to wonder how much more technologically advanced and capable a species can become relative to us, and how their environment affects them.
The problem would be the aliens would be so far away the Earth that going to war with a alien power would be like Napoleon wanting to annex the Moon. Just getting ships across the great divide of space would in itself would be such a enormous undergoing that also planning a armed assault when the ships eventually get there it laughable.

[OhYesIdid]

The problem would be the aliens would be so far away the Earth that going to war with a alien power would be like Napoleon wanting to annex the Moon. Just getting ships across the great divide of space would in itself would be such a enormous undergoing that also planning a armed assault when the ships eventually get there it laughable.

Lazy writers get around this by having warring space factions send massive fleets, big enough to survive for centuries and conquer planets. However, I don't remember any writer yet proposing the idea of a small colonial vanguard (like the one led by Cortez) outwitting and subduing the natives on their own. Huh, that's be kind of cool.

Hey, I'm a Mexican, so it's cool.

[thesadmafioso]

Lazy writers get around this by having warring space factions send massive fleets, big enough to survive for centuries and conquer planets. However, I don't remember any writer yet proposing the idea of a small colonial vanguard (like the one led by Cortez) outwitting and subduing the natives on their own. Huh, that's be kind of cool.

Hey, I'm a Mexican, so it's cool.

Eh, what is so special about Earth? I never understood why aliens are always being portrayed as being bent on conquest in popular sci fi, especially given the relative lack of comparative value represented by Earth. If an extraterrestrial civilization has the means to engage in war across space which would take hundreds of light years to traverse, you would think they would also be able to find an uninhabited planet, one not ravaged by humanity.

I mean, the idea itself is interesting, but I can hardly think of a realistic motive to justify it.

[OhYesIdid]

Eh, what is so special about Earth? I never understood why aliens are always being portrayed as being bent on conquest in popular sci fi, especially given the relative lack of comparative value represented by Earth. If an extraterrestrial civilization has the means to engage in war across space which would take hundreds of light years to traverse, you would think they would also be able to find an uninhabited planet, one not ravaged by humanity.

I mean, the idea itself is interesting, but I can hardly think of a realistic motive to justify it.

to paraphrase Chris Rock: "we have never thought up of truly alien aliens." Meaning, we usually think of conquest and reason in human terms, but there can be many motives for invading planet earth. Just off the top of my head:


Wanting to evangelize/convert us.
Ritual slavery.
Refugees from a bigger war.
A noble conquering the planet for the honor of it.
scientific experiments.
construction :D
expansionist colonial settlers aka lebensraum!!
hey, who says shit hits the fan upon first contact? maybe we go and join an ecumenical galatic goverment, but are later on administrated by an alien species, who goes all genocide on our ass.
"for our own good" aka a forced technological singularity

[thesadmafioso]

to paraphrase Chris Rock: "we have never thought up of truly alien aliens." Meaning, we usually think of conquest and reason in human terms, but there can be many motives for invading planet earth. Just off the top of my head:


Wanting to evangelize/convert us.
Ritual slavery.
Refugees from a bigger war.
A noble conquering the planet for the honor of it.
scientific experiments.
construction :D
expansionist colonial settlers aka lebensraum!!
hey, who says shit hits the fan upon first contact? maybe we go and join an ecumenical galatic goverment, but are later on administrated by an alien species, who goes all genocide on our ass.
"for our own good" aka a forced technological singularity


Most of those don't seem to be characteristic of a race with the technological knowledge which would dispose them to such pointless gestures. I guess they are possible, they just don't seem likely. Even with the realistic motives like expansion and colonization, it would be much more likely that an advanced alien civilization would not bother with a planet as depleted and tainted as our own.

I could almost see scientific pursuits making some sense though, but once again, I just find it more likely that we would be viewed in much the same way we view flies or ants.

[OhYesIdid]

fictional aliens are just metaphors for humanity, anyway. However, the classic Greeks made their myths compelling by humanizing their gods, so maybe there's something there for writers to learn. As for strictly alien speculation...what about them trying to stop us from acheiving the Singularity, black energy manipulation, or some other dangerous technological treshold? Maybe they have always been there, invisible to us, far away but watching over many different species, stepping in to annihilate everything once they reach the treshold. Maybe they think it's more humane? humane, lol. Alien interventionism, maybe they'll treat us like the international community treats Iran: "they're just too reckless to be trusted!" I dunno man, why don't you give any ideas? :rolleyes:

loljkkthnxbai, comrade

[thesadmafioso]

fictional aliens are just metaphors for humanity, anyway. However, the classic Greeks made their myths compelling by humanizing their gods, so maybe there's something there for writers to learn. As for strictly alien speculation...what about them trying to stop us from acheiving the Singularity, black energy manipulation, or some other dangerous technological treshold? Maybe they have always been there, invisible to us, far away but watching over many different species, stepping in to annihilate everything once they reach the treshold. Maybe they think it's more humane? humane, lol. Alien interventionism, maybe they'll treat us like the international community treats Iran: "they're just too reckless to be trusted!" I dunno man, why don't you give any ideas? :rolleyes:

loljkkthnxbai, comrade

Sort of sounds like what Karl Sagan was saying in one of the posted clips, the concept of aliens waiting to see if we ever mature to a point where we would be worthy of joining the intergalactic community. I mean, that would make perfect sense too, presuming we actually have been visited by extraterrestrial life.

Quite frankly, I would think that to be the most plausible reaction of an advanced space fairing race to our species. I imagine that Douglas Adams was pretty spot on in hitchhikers guide to the galaxy in his portrayal of earths role in the universe.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

How aliens would react and how we should respond is entirely dependant on the aliens themselves.

Nevertheless, I think that unless there is some compelling biological reason why, we should be discouraging aliens from doing something we find objectionable.

Even then, we may find ourselves in a position to alter the biology of an alien species so that they no longer have to do whatever it is we don't like. In which case we should go full steam ahead - assimilation is better than extermination any day.

[Decommissioner]

Alien society would most likely look incomprehensible to us. What makes sense for us will only make sense to us.

Who is to say they have any notions of "rights" or equality? Or who is to say they view themselves as individuals? They could have evolved to have rigid castes, and can only function in such a way. They may not think at all, and just act upon instinct. I think the most we could share with an alien race is just cold hard mathematics and science in general. They will not understand our emotions and what drives us as individuals and as societies, and we will not fully understand what compels them to behave the way will behave. Think truly alien here, get rid of the idea of some animal with "brain" or even a dna structure that we could recognise and understand. They may not require consumption of other materials to maintain their biology, the idea of a "food chain" could be alien to them.

Look at it this way, our notion of communism exists only in the realm of humanity. An alien race will think and exist on an entirely different plane than we do. If an alien race has a society that even resembles communism, it would be for far different reasons than why we would be communist. Their history wont have a "feudal, capitalist, and socialist" era, these things are mere concepts that exist in our minds, they are societal and economic structures that are tailored to human need, human nature and earthly constraints.

[noble brown]

I think they're socially advanced and they have it mostly all figured out peaceful diverse an all that but they're watch in us closely, waiting to see if we figure it out before we kill ourselves and most definetly before we interplanetary. We are like a cancer destroying everything we touch. They wanna keep us localized. No more moon:( I believe there are commonailities in all social structures. Any social species has a social structure. And communism at its core decribes very basic and natural social requirements so basic In fact that any social species with self awareness AND social awareness could potentially have a correlating understanding and be very good at getting along this way. We are at best JUST gaining social awareness and not very good at getting along at all. Shit they may just off us just to be safe.

[OhYesIdid]

Alien society would most likely look incomprehensible to us. What makes sense for us will only make sense to us.

Who is to say they have any notions of "rights" or equality? Or who is to say they view themselves as individuals? They could have evolved to have rigid castes, and can only function in such a way. They may not think at all, and just act upon instinct. I think the most we could share with an alien race is just cold hard mathematics and science in general. They will not understand our emotions and what drives us as individuals and as societies, and we will not fully understand what compels them to behave the way will behave. Think truly alien here, get rid of the idea of some animal with "brain" or even a dna structure that we could recognise and understand. They may not require consumption of other materials to maintain their biology, the idea of a "food chain" could be alien to them.

Look at it this way, our notion of communism exists only in the realm of humanity. An alien race will think and exist on an entirely different plane than we do. If an alien race has a society that even resembles communism, it would be for far different reasons than why we would be communist. Their history wont have a "feudal, capitalist, and socialist" era, these things are mere concepts that exist in our minds, they are societal and economic structures that are tailored to human need, human nature and earthly constraints.

This, my good man.
Noble Brown, who says they are "social" in any way we can comprehend?
This is becoming more and more an alien speculation thread, and I like it.
Decommisionner mentions instinct, and I think it's rather naive to beleive technology=social progress. Maybe they do not have any real technology and have somehow evolved to move from planet to planet, as a sort of predator. Maybe they're parasitical to a sort of "space whale", and only detach when they detect suitable prey. Also, the roles of carnivore and herbivore are, too,products of our own, particular evolution. Maybe an alien species is capable of feeding through many different means, and their evolution is focused therefore more on fighting other beings than on developing in a specific niche.

Another notion that is common is sci-fi is that, once a brain develops a certain number of synapses, it becomes sentient. However, as DC well said, aliens might not have a brain. If they did, however, maybe they could consider themselves sentient, and us beasts. Or maybe they could consider themselves sentient, and us gods for thinking the way we do.

[noble brown]

Social structure occurs, no matter how alien it mite be, when individuals work or live togther. Social structure does not equal intelligence but technological advancement would appear to need the knowledge retention that culture provides and culture only exists thru social structure. I'm certain that other possibilities are readily conceivable but we will probably find that social and technological advancement go hand in hand w a few exceptions. There is a natural dichotomy the exists between the individual and the group. A species natural behavior falls somwhere on this scale. Hyper individualismlike a wolverine for instance or the super organism like the ant who is hyper social. Both extremes illustrate the pros an cons. Humans hover somewhere near the golden mean we are at base social creatures with very strong individual desires this is the source of all our momentum cause its always busy in the middle whether advancing or retarding humanity is constantly in flux it is either gonna make us or break us and I have a feeling that this opera has been played out in various forms in various times an places. Super organisms lack the inner tumoil provided by the individual ego thatkeeps a species dynamic socially. Hyper idividualism lacks the knowledge retention that social grps have. Erggo we should be seeing at least a social species most likely a socially advanced species. Of course its all wild speculation

[OhYesIdid]

good point, NB. However, as has been previously stated, our concpetions of ego and society are all made up from our races' experience. There is still no way to know if these are universal absolutes.

[Rss]

UCCP Military Affairs Bureau presents:

When fascist bugs attack!

The United Communist Coalition of Planets is a vast and unconquerable fortress and the workers who made it's foundations are the greatest heroes our species has ever witnessed.

But around the walls scurries a creeping tide of fascist filth. Forever are we surrounded by these reactionary beings from dark reaches of our galaxy. Every comrade should relish the chance to send these fascists back to their religion-concieved hell.

Duty of Every Comrade

Bug society is dominated by primitive caste system. Above all bugs is the matriarch, who is assisted by council of drone generals. Other individuals are born in to the caste that they can never leave behind; this is deeply ingrained social bondage. We shall shatter these chains! Every time you take a bug soldier as prisoner, inform her of predicament she is in. Make sure she is introduced to political commander of your cadre and educated about communism.

Leaders of the young queen caste are to be shot on sight. Their pheromones dizzy the minds of their soldiers and force them to follow their orders. Remember comrade, get the young queens first! Imprisoned worker caste bugs have already formed councils to oppose imperialist aggression of bug forces near our peaceful colonies on the surface of Titan. Some of them have even joined our forces as volunteers to oppose imperialist ambitions of Bug Empire. These soldiers are to be treated as comrades in arms. Their dedication to free their kin from clutches of matriarchal oppression is an example to follow and emulate.

Onward Glorious Red Army of Humans, Transhumans and Bug workers! To victory!

Addendum: If in intimate contact with bug workers, ensure that you have your anti-allergic injections. Report to the medical commander of your cadre.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Sounds like someone's been watching Starship Troopers.

[The Dark Side of the Moon]

Taste Bullet

[The Dark Side of the Moon]

Sounds like someone's been watching Starship Troopers.
did you see the 3d series? that was fucking awesome

[OhYesIdid]

Rss's post looks kind of sarcasti...nah, I'm sure he means it.

[ColonelCossack]

The aliens might already have communism.

[gendoikari]

Liberty to all sentient beings.

[gendoikari]

The aliens might already have communism.

If they evolve from something like ants, they will. otherwise it's still a distinct possibility.

[AnonymousOne]

Right so lets consider the possibility that a future communist society on Earth occurs and it comes into contact with a hierarchical Alien civilization which has a clear and visible stratification in it.

Should the Earth Communists spread the ideas to the other races and should International Communism also apply to non-human races.What do we think on this.?

To quote Comrade Optimus Prime, "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings." If a society of oppression exists, than it is our duty regardless of species to end such oppression and empower the oppressed.

[CommunityBeliever]

imperialist aggression of bug forces

I think you could use some computer scientists on your team. We have been resisting the imperialism of the bug forces for years.

http://landoflisp.com/comic_20x_3.png

[Psy]

To quote Comrade Optimus Prime, "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings." If a society of oppression exists, than it is our duty regardless of species to end such oppression and empower the oppressed.
The problem is space is big thus it becomes not worth the effort to even care about what other intelligent life is doing as any transmission would take years to get here if they are right next door in Alpha Centauri.

[La Comédie Noire]

HAHA It'd be funny if a space fleet was sent out on a centuries long journey to conquer a planet, only to have everyone forget why they started the journey in the first place because the records were lost somewhere.

[Mr. Gorilla]

To quote Comrade Optimus Prime, "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings." If a society of oppression exists, than it is our duty regardless of species to end such oppression and empower the oppressed.

We could run in to the problem of the hierarchical species having a caste system embedded in to their very biology, affecting the way they behave and think (For either natural reasons or otherwise; either way, if the species is capable of advanced space travel and hierarchy within its society still exists, it probably isn't just a social construct). For example, worker drones may be "sentient," in being capable of basic communication with members of other castes, but they may hold primal, biological urges that compel them to serve the duties of their castes.

We could attempt to overthrow their "Queen," but it would, in the case of the worker drones being sterile, ensure the extinction of their species. If not, how they would react to their liberation is anyone's guess; in any case, given the nature of their biology, they probably wouldn't be able to exist under such circumstances and die off (Unless we simulated their hierarchy so they could coexist with us, but that would be going against our principles, which would completely defeat the point).

We could try to alter their biology, as mentioned earlier in this thread, but that may take quite some time considering how alien/different their biology is from that of what we know, so it may not be worth the effort (Which will in all likelihood be quite different; now, of course, the speed at which we obtain enough information about their biology as possible will be dependent on how efficent the post-human swarm of nano-machines we will become is).

If all else fails, there is the option of extermination, but I do not believe that is the preferable course of action; no good can come from genocide. Of course, if they were violent, posed a direct threat to us and would stop it nothing to remove ourselves from existence, then yeah, there will be war, but I think the ideal course of action (In the scenario that they are too different from us and it simply isn't feasible for our societies to communicate/trade/integrate while maintaining liberty without hierarchy) would be to establish some sort of agreement that alows our society and theirs to grow, explore the cosmos and function freely while remaining completely separate.