Info on the Greek Civil War (1946-1949)?

[Weezer]

Not talking about the current situation in Greece, but does anyone have any information on the Greek Civil War that lasted from 1946-1949?

It seems like a very obscured part of socialist history that no one talks about.

[Hoipolloi Cassidy]

Not talking about the current situation in Greece, but does anyone have any information on the Greek Civil War that lasted from 1946-1949?

On the contrary, It would be very useful to have a serious discussion of the Greek Civil here in order to face the current situation in Greece.

Hint: a bad idea to tell the Greek People they should organize according to the rules of an Armed People's Uprising, etc. I was thinking, in fact, that if some of the blowhards on this list tried to pull that kind of rhetoric in any number of town squares in Greece they'd be lucky to leave with their limbs.

[Delenda Carthago]

http://www.marxists.org/subject/greek-civil-war/index.htm

Also, Sir Comradical is a big fan of the greek communist history, ask him to let you know where you can find movies about the Civil War.

edit: subtitles for movies!

[Sir Comradical]

Pretty much everything I know comes from conversations with my Greek friends. I'm sure AttackGr knows of some good books on the topic. Anyway the experiences of ELAS proved that some wells just aren't big enough to contain all Nazi collaborators!

[Delenda Carthago]

Look up Velouchiotis! Son of Zeus and the reincarnation of Ares the God of War! He threw bolts of lightning at the fascists and traitors! Pretty much everything I know comes from conversations with my Greek friends. I'm sure AttackGr knows of some good books on the topic. Anyway the experiences of ELAS proved that some wells just aren't big enough to contain all Nazi collaborators!

Dont get me started!:lol:

I can translate lyrics from the great(as you know) songs of the period, I can answer to any questions asked, but I dont know any books in English on the subject. Never the less, I truly believe that the greek M-L history is one of the most interesting ones in the world.

Btw, Velouchiotis was a great guerrilla, but the biggest figure was the GS of KKE and head of the EAM, Nikolas Zachariadis!

http://www2.rizospastis.gr/getImage.do?size=medium&id=53054&format=.jpg

[Sir Comradical]

Didn't Zachariadis tell ELAS to hand over their weapons after the war? My friends don't have a good opinion of him for this reason.

[Delenda Carthago]

Its a more complicated situation than that. He didnt just said that because he was antirevolutionary. There was a tendecy to turn the struggle from a military one to a political one, since this was the big weapon of the communists(ELAS had the vast majority of the support of the people, but the monachofascists had the support of England and then USA). It was a bad descision never the less, but at times like these, mistakes are more dangerous.

[Sir Comradical]

Its a more complicated situation than that. He didnt just said that because he was antirevolutionary. There was a tendecy to turn the struggle from a military one to a political one, since this was the big weapon of the communists(ELAS had the vast majority of the support of the people, but the monachofascists had the support of England and then USA). It was a bad descision never the less, but at times like these, mistakes are more dangerous.

Major mistake. They had the Hotel Grand Bretagne rigged with explosives and could have blown the traitors plus Churchill to an eternity in hell if they wanted to. But hey, at least in the Peloponnese they slaughtered 1500 Nazi collaborators. Meligala must be declared a national holiday in post-revolutionary Greece.

[Delenda Carthago]

Zachariadis was a great leader. And great leaders are the ones that make great mistakes, because they take the desiscions that matter. But I believe if the revizionists didnt took over in USSR and send him to gulags and let their puppets to take over KKE, he would make a difference in the European movement. And thats something even Stalin counted on.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_gjYMdEwDXpw/TMXvEh9kZyI/AAAAAAAAAj4/N3eNnN2RXmw/s1600/meligalas.+xilioi+kaloi+xorane+skata.jpg

Meligalas: a thousand good ones can fit(greek phrase):lol:

[Delenda Carthago]

I m a disgraceful asshole. Varkiza treason was signed two months before Zachariadis came back to Greece, while he was in Dahau, so in no way its his fault.:( His fault is that he didnt took back sooner the descision to start the second round and he let the communists become victims to white terrorism and exile for so long.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/el/c/cf/Rizospastis-1945-05-30.png

The KKE newspaper from his return from Dahau.

[Sir Comradical]

I love the Meligala picture.

[Tarifas]

So, wait, let me get this straight, we are talking here that the agreement in Yalta before the end of the war had no role to play in the lack of support to us by the USSR, and possibly even to the surrender of the arms?

[Sir Comradical]

Mr AttackGR

I recently asked a Greek comrade of mine about what she thought about Nikos Zachariadis. She tells me Khrushchev had him hanged. Her grandfather was an ELAS fighter who refused to lay down his arms. For these reasons they hate Niko.

It also seems to me that Marxist-Leninist Anarchism is by no means a contradiction in Greece.

[Delenda Carthago]

So, she is applauding Khrushchev for murdering Zachariadis?

[Sir Comradical]

So, she is applauding Khrushchev for murdering Zachariadis?

Pretty much. I completely disagree with her, but we're still good friends. Apparently, many anti-Varkiza KKE families knew soon after Zachariadi was hanged & considered it justice. His execution became a rumour & eventually the facts were disclosed.

Don't shoot the messenger!

[Sir Comradical]

,,,

[Susurrus]

It also seems to me that Marxist-Leninist Anarchism is by no means a contradiction in Greece.

*sits down* Go on...

[RedTrackWorker]

Not talking about the current situation in Greece, but does anyone have any information on the Greek Civil War that lasted from 1946-1949?

It seems like a very obscured part of socialist history that no one talks about.

Revolutionary History Journal
Vol.3 No.3, Spring 1991
Trotskyism and Stalinism in Greece
Online at http://www.marxists.org/history/etol/revhist/backissu.htm has some on this.

[Sir Comradical]

*sits down* Go on...

I happen to bump into many Greeks who say they are anarchist but also have positives to say about Stalin. I think many anarchists are grandchildren of KKE fighters. Many of them feel betrayed by the modern KKE. So they adopt anarchism as an alternative.

[Susurrus]

I happen to bump into many Greeks who say they are anarchist but also have positives to say about Stalin. I think many anarchists are grandchildren of KKE fighters. Many of them feel betrayed by the modern KKE. So they adopt anarchism as an alternative.

What positive things do they say about Stalin from an anarchist perspective?

[Sir Comradical]

What positive things do they say about Stalin from an anarchist perspective?

Ask AttackGR the Greek. First see if he agrees with my above characterisations.

[Delenda Carthago]

Pretty much. I completely disagree with her, but we're still good friends. Apparently, many anti-Varkiza KKE families knew soon after Zachariadi was hanged & considered it justice. His execution became a rumour & eventually the facts were disclosed.

Don't shoot the messenger!

I m not, actually. I just think your friends are idiots:) . There is no chance you will find a non opportunist/revizionist communist in Greece that will accuse Zachariadis for that. Maybe they should get their fact right.

[Delenda Carthago]

What positive things do they say about Sttalin from an anarchist perspective?
Depends what do you mean anarchism and what do you mean "Stalin".

If you mean an post modern thing and a cruel dictator, there is nothing in common.

If you mean a workers movement and a leader of a workers movement, there are lots in common.

Also, its what Sir Comradical says. EAM fighters are our grandfathers. They were the ones that fought against fascists and capitalism. If your grandad was a ELAS fighter, and you are a working class kid, and you are a Left by nature, and you want to fight, there is a big chance you gonna end up an anarchist.

sPKk5R7Hwuc
Thats an anarchist punk-rock-hiphop band that did a remix of a guerrilla song of EAM. That tells a lot...

[Lenina Rosenweg]

A slight change of subject-there's an interesting film "The Travelling Players". It follows a Greek acting troup though the 1920s to the 1950s and goes though the monarchy, fascist dictatorship, Nazi occupation, "liberation" by the British, and the civil war.

There's a great scene where anti-fascist crowds are cheering the British as liberators.The crowd carries Soviet, US, and Briutish flags. Okay the British start firing on the crowd. they disperse. Sometime later the crowd reassembles. they are still carrying flags but this time they have only Soviet flags! Its a memorable scene.

The film is a bit hard to understand unless someone is very knowledgable about Greek history and culture (which I'm not) but its a visual masterpiece.

I was wondering what the Greek comrades on this thread think?

[Sir Comradical]

Lenina Rosenweg. I have that movie "Travelling Players". I must watch it now!

[Sir Comradical]

...

[Susurrus]

I mean the workers movement and a cruel dictator.

Then why are they anarchists and not Stalinists? It seems a little hypocritical to have an ideology that advocates the abolition of the state, then praise the dictator of one of the most oppressive states in history. :confused: It's understandable to praise the brave partisan fighters who fought the nazis and the capitalists, but only because they were fighting oppressors for what they believed would be communism, whereas Stalin has been shown to be a power-hungry dictator interested in setting up puppet states.