Starting a Collective

[WyoLeftist]

As I stated in my thread about Crimethinc, I have been in discussions with several people in my community (musicians, small business owners, college students) about creating some form of collectively owned and operated business in our area. We'd like to encompass all areas of interest. A stage for punk shows (as in rightist wyoming, its a littel difficult to get decent bookings for left leaning bands once that leaning becomes public) some sort of resturaunt/cafe, and a book store.

As I've been a laborer my entire life, I find myself just kind of hanging out and listening to people who have done similar things talk, while i just sit around and nod. I'd much rather have something to offer. So I was hoping some people around here could help me out, in any way.

How do you find a space, how do you get the funds (most of my money goes to rent, and taking care of my small family) and things of that nature.

Any help would be much appreciated.

[o well this is ok I guess]

Look for the nearest dilapidated building.
It is now yours.

[The Douche]

Keep in mind, starting a small business is not revolutionary.

[thesadmafioso]

Yeah, even if you host left leaning punk bands and hawk some radical literature, at the end of the day you are still trying to make a profit. I mean, not that there is anything necessarily wrong with owning a small business given the ineffectual nature of lifestylism in politics, but you don't need to try to play it off as some sort of haven for the revolution.

But to answer the questions at hand, you are probably going to require a loan from a bank and/or some serious investors to start. I would also do some research into demographics and competition in the area, as it seems that this sort of business may be hard pressed for long term viability and solvency in Wyoming. I don't actually know much about the area you plan to open this business in, but you make it sound like it may be somewhat adverse to this sort of enterprise.

Also, you should be prepared to survive for quite some time without netting yourself a regular salary. Start up costs for businesses are generally quite substantial and it usually takes a healthy period of time for your model to begin to turn profits. It's not something that you want to get into without a real commitment.

I don't know though, if you can find a stable enough market for that sort of niche I think it could easily work. That is really what it is going to boil down to though, the ability of your target market to sustain this sort of particular business.

[Sensible Socialist]

Keep in mind, starting a small business is not revolutionary.
Neither is hanging out on Revleft. But I'm sure we all appreciate the reminder, coming from such a distinguished revolutionary as yourself.

As to the topic, you should talk to the people in your community and find out what their needs are. There is no use starting a trendy hipster coffee shop if two already are doing well in your community. That said, once you have a good idea of what you want to do, I'd get the community involved to help raise funds. You don't neccessarily need to advertise that it will be the next hotbed of revolutionary activity. :o Doing community-based fundraising could help break down any barrier that would exist between the collective and the community. See if there are any empty or unused spaces in the town, and maybe you can buy a space pretty cheap. If you can get enough people with varied skills (electricians, plumbers, masons, etc.) you can save money on repair and construction costs. Finally, try and talk to other people who have done similar things. Find out what works and what doesn't.

[thesadmafioso]

Neither is hanging out on Revleft. But I'm sure we all appreciate the reminder, coming from such a distinguished revolutionary as yourself.

As to the topic, you should talk to the people in your community and find out what their needs are. There is no use starting a trendy hipster coffee shop if two already are doing well in your community. That said, once you have a good idea of what you want to do, I'd get the community involved to help raise funds. You don't neccessarily need to advertise that it will be the next hotbed of revolutionary activity. :o Doing community-based fundraising could help break down any barrier that would exist between the collective and the community. See if there are any empty or unused spaces in the town, and maybe you can buy a space pretty cheap. If you can get enough people with varied skills (electricians, plumbers, masons, etc.) you can save money on repair and construction costs. Finally, try and talk to other people who have done similar things. Find out what works and what doesn't.

I don't think fundraising would really be enough to generate the necessary capital to start a business from this state, especially when you take into the account the fact that this seems to be a private business. Generally speaking, people like to see a return on their investment when they are giving money to a local start up. It certainly wouldn't hurt any to try, but the results would be unlikely to provide the initial funding required to open this sort of business.

[AnonymousOne]

Keep in mind, starting a small business is not revolutionary.

Depends on how we define revolutionary. Does it lead us to a destruction of capitalism? No.

Is it an empowering thing to free yourself from being a member of the proleteriat? Yes.

I'm self-employed, and it was one of the best decisions I ever made. It's only me so I'm not exploiting others.

I'd say OP should go for it, but if you hire others it needs to be a co-op or a workers controlled buisness.

[Sensible Socialist]

I don't think fundraising would really be enough to generate the necessary capital to start a business from this state, especially when you take into the account the fact that this seems to be a private business. Generally speaking, people like to see a return on their investment when they are giving money to a local start up. It certainly wouldn't hurt any to try, but the results would be unlikely to provide the initial funding required to open this sort of business.
That's true. However, I was thinking of a local example, where in my area they raised several hundred thousand dollars for a YMCA. It's a pretty rural area, certainly not a wealthy one, and yet the money was raised over the course of a year or two.

[The Douche]

Neither is hanging out on Revleft. But I'm sure we all appreciate the reminder, coming from such a distinguished revolutionary as yourself.



Why you so mad?


Is it an empowering thing to free yourself from being a member of the proleteriat? Yes.

I'm not telling homeboy not to be a small business owner. I don't care if he is or isn't, and I hope it works out well and he makes enough money to support himself and his family, just like I hope for everybody on this website, and everybody in the world.

But "freeing yourself from being a member of the proletariat" (or in more crude terms, becoming petite-bourgeoisie) is not revolutionary. Its just being a small business owner, or being a traveller kid, or being whatever.



It always makes me laugh the way so many people will hate endlessly on traveller kids as "lifestylists" and middle class, but they think its awesome, and heap praise on somebody who starts a small business, as long as that business sells a few copies of Marx and some fair trade coffee.


OP, at least organize your workplace through the IWW. I seem to recall you being interested in encouraging unionization in your area, that would certainly give you a jumping off point.

[Delenda Carthago]

Depends on how we define revolutionary. Does it lead us to a destruction of capitalism? No.

Is it an empowering thing to free yourself from being a member of the proleteriat? Yes.

I'm self-employed, and it was one of the best decisions I ever made. It's only me so I'm not exploiting others.

I'd say OP should go for it, but if you hire others it needs to be a co-op or a workers controlled buisness.

Yeah, cause petit bourgeois class is known for its revolutionary nature...

[Os Cangaceiros]

You should start a bar. It'd be way better than some lame vegan coffee shop or something.

Anyway. Of course owning your own business isn't revolutionary. I don't think that the OP was talking about overthrowing capitalism, one small business at a time. But having a social center w/ a connection to "the scene" for people to meet at has been a part of anarchist activity since, well, anarchism was founded, just about. IMO it's about creating a destination where likeminded people can find each other, the building of a community etc. not about revolution.

[AnonymousOne]

Why you so mad?



I'm not telling homeboy not to be a small business owner. I don't care if he is or isn't, and I hope it works out well and he makes enough money to support himself and his family, just like I hope for everybody on this website, and everybody in the world.

But "freeing yourself from being a member of the proletariat" (or in more crude terms, becoming petite-bourgeoisie) is not revolutionary. Its just being a small business owner, or being a traveller kid, or being whatever.

Errr, owning a small buisness doesn't make you petit-bourgeoisie. What makes you petit-borugeoise is buying the labor power of others to use.

I don't have any employees, are you saying I exploit myself, and rob myself of surplus value, to benefit myself?

Unless of course you were just throwing the term around because it's the classic leftist buzzword.


Yeah, cause petit bourgeois class is known for its revolutionary nature...


Owning a Buisness != Petit-Bourgeoisie.

Edit: Everything I just said was incorrect. I was referring not to being petit-borugeoise but rather the haute-bourgeoise, I apologize for the confusion both cmoney and AttackGr are correct.

I think I was misunderstood, I never meant to say that owning a small buisness is a revolutionary action. It's not, never can be, and never will be. But it is a good thing I believe to stop being a member of the oppressed underclass of the proleteriat. It's a good thing to not have to bargain yourself for cheap to an employer. It's a good thing to break the chains of wage-slavery.

[Delenda Carthago]

Yes it is man. Thats exactly what it is.

[WyoLeftist]

I know it's not that revolutionary of a thing, but I just think it would be nice, like it's been stated by a few posters, to have a place for similar minded people to get together, and discuss, enjoy good music, with a good message, and maybe possibly get some curious folks to wander in and learn something, or find something that sparks a flame in their minds.

[Comrade Trotsky]

I like how people are just vaguely throwing around words like "revolutionary" and "petite-bourgeoisie".:rolleyes:

I don't think the OP is talking about forming a vanguard and storming the gates here. Just starting up a small co-op some where in his community, which isn't a bad thing at all. Implementing a democratic, self-managed work place with a stong sense of comradery is surely something that we as anarchists and communists should not discourage. Quite the opposite.

As for funds and finding a place to set up, I would suggest finding an old dilapidated building, as someone suggested earlier, but this would probably take more money than it's worth to fix up and turn into a properly functioning work place.

If your town is anything like mine, there is alot of businesses shutting their doors, leaving their property up for grabs. I would suggest finding a place like this where basic maintenance and things that need fixed up are at a bare minimum.

As for finance, I would try taking out a small loan. If you're opening this up as a cooperative with more than one person, I would suggest that you all chip in equally as well.

Hope that helps!

[Dogs On Acid]

Communism isn't a lifestyle. Some of you guys are idiots (yes, you cmoney). Engels was 100x the Leftist you are and he owned a factory.

OP, go for it, treat your co-workers well and you have my support.

I'd rather have a small-business and treat my workers well than be a slave.

[WyoLeftist]

There's about 6 of us that i would consider 'seriously' discussing this. We're all getting together sometime in the next couple of days to get into the finer details. I'm pretty sure the financial part is gonna be taken care of by the 3 or 4 of us that have the expendable income to do so (me, working at the mine, 1 small business owner, and 1, maybe 2, oil rig workers.) The cool part about those of us planning on putting up the cash for it, is we're all very working class, and all very proud of our political affiliations. The rest are musicians, artists, and college students (2 of them doing all three at the same time, haha)

[The Douche]

Communism isn't a lifestyle. Some of you guys are idiots (yes, you cmoney). Engels was 100x the Leftist you are and he owned a factory.

OP, go for it, treat your co-workers well and you have my support.

I'd rather have a small-business and treat my workers well than be a slave.

I'll just ignore your personal insult. Thanks.



Engels was not working class, and his factory was not a revolutionary project. Yes, thank you, communism is not a lifestyle. So opening a small business, is not communism. Can you own a small business and be a communist? Sure. Can having a small business build for revolution? No.

If you look at my original post, and all subsequent posts you will see that I see nothing wrong with the OP's idea, I'm just making the point that projects like co-ops are not some sort of "revolutionary project", which a lot of people try to make them out to be.

I am in favor of having community spaces, but my only issue is making sure they don't get blown out of proportion for what they are. If you pay rent and pay bills and run a business you're just another business, one that happens to run more ethically perhaps, and sell some shit that I think is cool maybe. The dynamics do change however, for things like squated social spaces, because its existance is a direct challenge to private property.

[Metacomet]

There's about 6 of us that i would consider 'seriously' discussing this. We're all getting together sometime in the next couple of days to get into the finer details. I'm pretty sure the financial part is gonna be taken care of by the 3 or 4 of us that have the expendable income to do so (me, working at the mine, 1 small business owner, and 1, maybe 2, oil rig workers.) The cool part about those of us planning on putting up the cash for it, is we're all very working class, and all very proud of our political affiliations. The rest are musicians, artists, and college students (2 of them doing all three at the same time, haha)


Good luck.

You seem to have more leftist comrades around you then I do. And your in the heart of reactionary ville and I'm in a state everyone else (and people here) say is "socialist :laugh: :rolleyes:"