EDL claims to be "a working class movement"

[SJBarley]

So for my Government and Politics class I have to read a "quality" newspaper once a week, as I can not get ahold of a decent left wing paper I go as far right as possible to have a laugh at the capitalists take on the days events. But this outright offended me. Today's Independent ran an article on the English Defense League and their facist founder Stephen Lennon -
"Mr Lennon portrayed his organisation as a working-class movement speaking up for a disenfranchised section of society ignored by the political classes. It is a similar pitch to the message of the British National Party as it chalked up a series of victories at the ballot box, culminating in the election of two Euro MEPs in 2009"
Now my issue is not with the story itself, surprisingly it seems to have been fairly critical of the EDL but rather that people hear working class movement associated with groups such as this, what can be done to prevent facist movements disguising themselves as left wing?

[Tommy4ever]

The Independent isn't really that right wing. And why would any mainstream paper not be critical of the EDL?

Finally, the EDL sort of are a movement from the working class (just a right wing segment of it) and I don't think the label working class necessarily has exclusively leftist connotations.

[pax et aequalitas]

Well, maybe because on certain points they are left wing. Politics can't be seen as just left - right. That is only regarding economics. There is also progressive - conservative and authoritarian - libertarian.

Besides. Anyone can say they are something without being it. There is little that can be done against liars.

[SJBarley]

well in my opinion i consider pretty much all the mainstream media right wing :laugh: but yeah, I just worry that people then associate working class movements with groups such as the EDL. I just don't believe the EDL can be called an working class movement when they do not encompass the working class, they encompass those of English blood, not those of the working class.

[Hit The North]

If you want to read a really right-wing "quality" daily, you should choose The Telegraph (aka "The Torygraph").

[SJBarley]

In my defense on choice of newspaper, it was all that remained when I arrived at the newsagents, but please allow us to simply discuss the EDL's claim rather than the media it is depicted in, I apologise for even mentioning the newspaper now

[Ravachol]

This is a semantics trick, being a working-class movement, as in: a movement composed of (mostly) working-class members is something different from being a working-class movement, as in: a movement agitating for working-class interests.

Given the former definition, the Sturmabteilung would be a working-class movement and so would the Muslim Defence League be, being composed of mainly young working-class asians. Don't think that'll sit well with the EDL.

Then again, Yaxley-Lenon (aka Tommy Robinson) owns a tanning salon and has several employees, so all this blabla is coming from the mouth of a petit-bourgeois moron. Needless to say, the EDL is a sectarian nationalist movement with racist tendencies which splits the working-class along national, ethnic and religious lines, actively spoke out against the student protests and denounced trade unions, not for being recuperators of struggle but for 'undermining economic stability and promoting communism'.

Whether crybaby Robinson (got your flag back from Amsterdam already, tough guy? :laugh:) likes it or not a big part of the EDL bigshots are either middle-class or downright bourgeois (EDL-puppetmaster and financier Alan Lake, for example) and the fact that there's plenty of working-class lads in the 'rank & file' has more to do with the fact that the EDL recruits from football firms (who have a largely working-class composition) looking for a good ol' ruckus with the pigs than anything else.

[SJBarley]

This is precisely my point, such an organisation should not be allowed to use the title when it so obviously has minimal links with the working class and is in essence against them! My question comrades is how do we prevent the term "working class movement" being associated with such groups

[Tommy4ever]

But when liberal newspapers like the Indpendent call the EDL a working class movement they don't mean its a movement encompassing the whole class and focused on working class interests. They just mean its a movement mostly made up of working class people - which is true.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

So for my Government and Politics class I have to read a "quality" newspaper once a week, as I can not get ahold of a decent left wing paper I go as far right as possible to have a laugh at the capitalists take on the days events. But this outright offended me. Today's Independent ran an article on the English Defense League and their facist founder Stephen Lennon -
"Mr Lennon portrayed his organisation as a working-class movement speaking up for a disenfranchised section of society ignored by the political classes. It is a similar pitch to the message of the British National Party as it chalked up a series of victories at the ballot box, culminating in the election of two Euro MEPs in 2009"
Now my issue is not with the story itself, surprisingly it seems to have been fairly critical of the EDL but rather that people hear working class movement associated with groups such as this, what can be done to prevent facist movements disguising themselves as left wing?

Do you by any chance go to a well-known boys' Grammar School?

Having to read a 'quality' newspaper once a week for Politics sounds suspiciously familiar to my days at school...

OT: you dilemma can be summed up with a few words. The EDL is a movement largely (Stephen Double-Barrelled Lennon aside) consisting of disaffected working class people. However, its composition is not the same as its class character.

You can explain it as thus:

A working class movement seeks to advance its own class via appropriate politics, whether it be Trade Unionism in defence of wages, to all out revolutionary ambitions.

A movement consisting of mainly working class people is not necessarily a working class movement in terms of its class character, if its aims, strategies and tactics are wholly reactionary and, without going into the details here, can be proved to actually be detrimental to the political and economic emancipation of the workers as a class.

I think that sums it up.:laugh:

[SJBarley]

Yes and I know this, all of us here on Revleft understand that, what I worry about is if someone who does not know much of politics hears that the EDL are a working class movement, and they do not agree with them (as they rightly shouldn't) and then hear about left wing movements as working class movements that they will instantly reject them because of this false affiliation with groups such as the EDL

[SJBarley]

Oh and El Granma no I do not attend a grammar school, quite the opposite in fact, I live in a fairly deprived area and I'm lucky to be able to attend college, many of my school friends are struggling to find places :(

[litster]

the independent is in no way the furtherest right paper you can get, that's if its right at all.

but unfortunately, the working class in this country and Europe have a history of being quite intolerant especially towards women and gays, its just a symptom of the male dominated working/pub environment that has changed and continues to change.

being working class doesn't make it a left or socialist ideology.

you can be socially conservative and economically communist, believe soviet Russia wasn't to far from that.

[SJBarley]

on the matter of the independent, i have stated already i know its not exactly the most right wing but i consider the majority of opinions expressed to be on the political right. As far as the defenition goes, i know they have a slight claim and that it clearly doesnt make them left wing, I am worried that left wing movements will become associated with groups such as the EDL by the term working class movement

[litster]

working class in Europe has general meant Left Wing, but in the US it seems to be different, the Republicans have this strange spell under alot of "white collar" workers as if they represent them.

[praxis1966]

working class in Europe has general meant Left Wing, but in the US it seems to be different, the Republicans have this strange spell under alot of "white collar" workers as if they represent them.

It's a lot more complex than that, lister. There have been plenty of fascist, proto-fascist, and quasi-fascist movements that have had plenty of working class support (if not leadership) on both sides of the pond. In the case of the EDL, it is my understanding that they grew out of the right wing of the working class and there aren't many people who'd make the mistake of calling them left wing simply by virtue of their class status.

[litster]

It's a lot more complex than that, lister. There have been plenty of fascist, proto-fascist, and quasi-fascist movements that have had plenty of working class support (if not leadership) on both sides of the pond. In the case of the EDL, it is my understanding that they grew out of the right wing of the working class and there aren't many people who'd make the mistake of calling them left wing simply by virtue of their class status.

I agree

[SHORAS]

They can claim what they want, dickheads.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

I honestly don't think that, 400 odd years into Capitalism and over 150 years post the first forays into Socialist ideologism, Trade Unionism and Labourism, that (Even with the propaganda press as it is) there is much danger of previously apolitical people confusing the EDL and left-wing workers' movements.

I really do think that the overwhelming majority of people are aware that the EDL are a racist organisation who only really attract a certain type of person, in the main.

[Manic Impressive]

but unfortunately, the working class in this country and Europe have a history of being quite intolerant especially towards women and gays, its just a symptom of the male dominated working/pub environment that has changed and continues to change.
No. It's a symptom of capitalism, it has nothing to do with enjoying going to the pub.

[Shropshire Socialist]

You confuse the term "working class" with "left wing". The two are not synonymous.

The fascist movement of the 1930s was predominantly made up of the working classes, as were the 1970s fascists, and the current BNP.

The working classes have always been divided into right and left, just as the middle and upper classes have been (albeit on a much smaller scale).

I have even heard staunch Labour voters who have been very racist and anti-immigrant. And I am not talking about Blairites but people who are would describe themselves are being on the left of the party.

It was always said in Britain that a working class Labour voter has more in common with a working class Tory than with their own party.

[Shropshire Socialist]

on the matter of the independent, i have stated already i know its not exactly the most right wing but i consider the majority of opinions expressed to be on the political right. As far as the defenition goes, i know they have a slight claim and that it clearly doesnt make them left wing, I am worried that left wing movements will become associated with groups such as the EDL by the term working class movement

The Independent is right wing Labour. Many of its columnists are Labour supporters, and its does have the odd gem, like Fisk who reports from the Middle East. Its owners are centrist and the paper has no love for the Tories.

If you really want a right wing paper read The Daily Mail.

[Thirsty Crow]

Then again, Yaxley-Lenon (aka Tommy Robinson) owns a tanning salon and has several employees, so all this blabla is coming from the mouth of a petit-bourgeois moron. Needless to say, the EDL is a sectarian nationalist movement with racist tendencies which splits the working-class along national, ethnic and religious lines, actively spoke out against the student protests and denounced trade unions, not for being recuperators of struggle but for 'undermining economic stability and promoting communism'.

Emphasis mine. This shows just how much the EDL is a working class "movement" (isn't it also quite funny that they call themselves a "movement"?), which can only be taken to mean a "movement that furthers the interests of the working class", and it is quite clear that "economic stability" within the context of the contemporary situation means only one thing - the cutting axe.

[Delenda Carthago]

There is "from working class", and there is "for working class". Right wing is NEVER, EVER EVER EVER EVER the second. Matter of fact, this is the discrimination between Left and Right wings.

[litster]

No. It's a symptom of capitalism, it has nothing to do with enjoying going to the pub.

I don't agree, sexism and homophobia have nothing to do with capitalism, these have been a staple part of alot of societies, ayn rand (as much as i hate her) pointed out that the love of money actual broke down many cultural barriers, but i would say that same love built up many more.

but my point with "pub culture" is that is has traditionally been working male, white dominated.