environmental resistance

[sapling]

Environmental problems today (global warming, pollution, and the destruction of ecosystems) are directly associated with a variety of human consequences (poverty, food shortages, water scarcity, health affects). As industrial capitalism continues its reign of terror on the planet, we are coming very close to creating a planet that not only does not provide for the peoples of the world, but literally will not be capable of providing for the Earth's human population. If we are to be internationalists, we can not ignore environmental issues.

How do people address these problems in practice? Do you merely mention environmental issues in your propaganda- if you mention such problems at all? Do you focus on energy extraction, global warming, water scarcity, or any other such problems as areas for agitation and resistance? What strategies can we take to end the destruction of the planet?

A network is forming called Deep Green Resistance. They are advocating a strategy they call: Decisive Ecological Warfare. It is a long-term approach that may indeed be capable of ending the destruction of the planet. However, they aim to bring down not merely capitalism but industrial civilization itself. Not sure how to relate to this group- it seems as though they are attempting to marry communism with primitivism. (I can't post the link- but their website is easy to find.) Any thoughts on this approach?

[ComradeGrant]

Every communist I know opposes primitivism, as do I. Despite this I do see the necessity in addressing environmental issues. I will admit that I don't know what the answer is though. I think that a lot of us see it like this: environmental issues cannot be addressed properly while capitalism exists, so make communism the main priority. I do think that any anti-capitalist movement should also be fiercely environmental.

[OhYesIdid]

There's a doc called "The Monkeywrenching Guide" somewhere on the tubes, I'm sure you can find it, though. Environmentalism ≠ Primitivism, fuckdammit. However, Enviromentalism e Socialism.

[miltonwasfried...man]

I am an environmentalist not a primitivist, anyone who wants to avoid a massive genocide should be the same. As for "Decisive Ecological Warfare" I say direct action gets satisfaction. But we must be sure to only destroy property and privilege never people.

[The Douche]

Check out John Zerzan's (oh noes, I'm suggesting somebody listen to Zerzan!!!!11!!1!) critique of DGR. I think DGR has some serious authoritarian currents about it, and Lierre Keith, who is a co-founder of DGR has called the police on anarchists in the past after being pied at a bookfair.

[sapling]

I am an environmentalist not a primitivist, anyone who wants to avoid a massive genocide should be the same. As for "Decisive Ecological Warfare" I say direct action gets satisfaction. But we must be sure to only destroy property and privilege never people.

I agree. I'm all for dismantling most of industrial production in the long run (because do we really need all those cars?), but I really can't see how DGR can argue against agriculture. Right now I'm outlining a document describing the kind of work that I think revolutionary anti-capitalists should be do around the environment. I think that a serious approach to environmental questions should involve research, resistance, and education. I’ll post it for feedback in a few days.

[Mac]

Government must stop spending money on useless crap and rather control pollution, spend more money to research non polluting fuels, and create a birth regulation.

[miltonwasfried...man]

Government must stop spending money on useless crap and rather control pollution, spend more money to research non polluting fuels, and create a birth regulation.

Why would they do that? The capitalists make money off the "useless crap", and guess who controls the government? You guessed it...

[Magón]

Doesn't that Deep Green Resistance network you're talking about, get it's whole plan of action from the book of the same name by Derrick Jensen? He's kind of strange himself.

[MarxSchmarx]

Check out John Zerzan's (oh noes, I'm suggesting somebody listen to Zerzan!!!!11!!1!) critique of DGR. I think DGR has some serious authoritarian currents about it, and Lierre Keith, who is a co-founder of DGR has called the police on anarchists in the past after being pied at a bookfair.

I suppose a stopped clock can be right twice a day. You don't happen to have a link to those or some coverage of this drama do you?

[The Douche]

I suppose a stopped clock can be right twice a day. You don't happen to have a link to those or some coverage of this drama do you?

I don't its on Zerzan's radio show, which there are archives (with notes) for, though.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I think one of the main things that would be a step up for the environmental movement would be more of a focus on environmental inequality and environmental racism. Every slum in modern capitalism is either the current or historical location of pollution within cities. Why has South Central LA been the home of the white, then black, and now black and latino working-poor... because this is where all the factory pollution used to collect. Why did New Orleans 9th ward flood... because they built the slums in a sub sea-level swamp.

This would bring race and class into the environmental equation - something that has been historically lacking - and bring these issues literally "close to home".

Contrary to how liberals and mainstream environmentalists see it, production, not consumption is the key to a lot of environmental destruction and pollution. This means a movement is necessarily going to have to take on companies and industries individually as well as the very nature and logic of how things are produced in this society - obviously class-oriented socialists and anarchists have a lot to contribute in these areas.

[pastradamus]

I think a good doc on envoirnmental issues is that Documentary called "gas land" if anyone has seen it? frightening stuff.

[sapling]

I think one of the main things that would be a step up for the environmental movement would be more of a focus on environmental inequality and environmental racism.

I strongly agree. I remember, for example, a group in Seattle fighting for "environmental justice" for poor people of color. Also, the problem is not limited to the poor within any particular country; the class conflicts between countries allow for "developing" nations to get the blame for pollution emitted in the production of goods for America and Europe. Which ties in nicely to your second point...


Contrary to how liberals and mainstream environmentalists see it, production, not consumption is the key to a lot of environmental destruction and pollution. This means a movement is necessarily going to have to take on companies and industries individually as well as the very nature and logic of how things are produced in this society - obviously class-oriented socialists and anarchists have a lot to contribute in these areas.There's a really great essay on the Monthly Review about this. I especially appreciated part III.A: "Capitalism Is a System Which Must Continually Expand".

monthlyreview.org/2010/03/01/what-every-environmentalist-needs-to-know-about-capitalism

[sapling]

Doesn't that Deep Green Resistance network you're talking about, get it's whole plan of action from the book of the same name by Derrick Jensen? He's kind of strange himself.

There is a Deep Green Resistance book, yes. Don't know if the network or the book came first, but the same people are involved in both. Derrick Jensen was given co-author credit. Most of the book was written by Lierre Keith and Aric McBay. I figured they wanted Derrick's name on the cover because he has some degree of popularity/notoriety.

Is Mr. Jensen a strange person? How so? He writes very close to his heart, and espouses a profound love for nature, as well as a horror at the subjugation of the natural world. He cares for humans as well, but he says in interviews that he would measure the success of his actions in terms of natural indicators (the population of wild salmon, for example). He does not mention indicators of human wellbeing, which certainly makes him unusual. I enjoy his columns in Orion Magazine. I wouldn't uphold him as a political leader.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Great point about people (mainstream environmentalists) blame the third world for environmental damage - or seek to argue against the development of the economy and living standards in the 3rd world.

When I was in school I took a class on environmentalism and one of the profs. was an anti-immigrant, anti-3rd world development environmentalist who was part of a faction within the Sierra Club to move their politics to the right and combine anti-immigrant and protectionist politics with environmentalism. He also argued for state-mandated birth allowances. He was also friends with that "eco-warrior" Sea-Captain guy that has a show on cable now. He came to our class as a guest one day and talked about how bad-ass and macho his activism was:lol:

[Magón]

There is a Deep Green Resistance book, yes. Don't know if the network or the book came first, but the same people are involved in both. Derrick Jensen was given co-author credit. Most of the book was written by Lierre Keith and Aric McBay. I figured they wanted Derrick's name on the cover because he has some degree of popularity/notoriety.

Is Mr. Jensen a strange person? How so? He writes very close to his heart, and espouses a profound love for nature, as well as a horror at the subjugation of the natural world. He cares for humans as well, but he says in interviews that he would measure the success of his actions in terms of natural indicators (the population of wild salmon, for example). He does not mention indicators of human wellbeing, which certainly makes him unusual. I enjoy his columns in Orion Magazine. I wouldn't uphold him as a political leader.

The book came first, and the group formed around it, making the book a type of manifesto for them. At least that's what I get from their site.

Anyway, the reason Jensen is strange to me, isn't because he's really into nature; I'm cool with that part, but some of his stuff and interviews, have to me, a sort of "You're either with us, or against us" mentality when it comes to talking about other environmentalists, or just people interested in general. I mean, I've done my share of helping with environmentalist work, but I've just never really come up against someone so fixed as he was on that sort of mentality. But I guess the same can be said about me, when it comes to someone talking about politics, I'm pretty cemented in on my ideas, but I still don't have that mentality of "You're either with us, or against us".

[The Douche]

The book came first, and the group formed around it, making the book a type of manifesto for them. At least that's what I get from their site.

Anyway, the reason Jensen is strange to me, isn't because he's really into nature; I'm cool with that part, but some of his stuff and interviews, have to me, a sort of "You're either with us, or against us" mentality when it comes to talking about other environmentalists, or just people interested in general. I mean, I've done my share of helping with environmentalist work, but I've just never really come up against someone so fixed as he was on that sort of mentality. But I guess the same can be said about me, when it comes to someone talking about politics, I'm pretty cemented in on my ideas, but I still don't have that mentality of "You're either with us, or against us".

I mean, Jensen is a primitivist, and that sort of thought "you're either for civilization or you're against it", is par for the course in primitivism. Jensen is just far more abrupt in the way he presents it.

On his forum for instance, you are not allowed to be a member unless you agree with all the Endgame premises.

[ellipsis]

I think one of the main things that would be a step up for the environmental movement would be more of a focus on environmental inequality and environmental racism. Every slum in modern capitalism is either the current or historical location of pollution within cities. Why has South Central LA been the home of the white, then black, and now black and latino working-poor... because this is where all the factory pollution used to collect. Why did New Orleans 9th ward flood... because they built the slums in a sub sea-level swamp.


You forgot where SF pushed all its black folks, bay view/hunter's point. land down there is super polluted.

[ellipsis]

I think a good doc on envoirnmental issues is that Documentary called "gas land" if anyone has seen it? frightening stuff.
The DHS conducted surveillance of people screening this movie and opposing natural gas drilling in west VA.

[sapling]

I mean, Jensen is a primitivist, and that sort of thought "you're either for civilization or you're against it", is par for the course in primitivism. Jensen is just far more abrupt in the way he presents it.

Dogmatism is fairly ubiquitous, and it afflicts people of all political strains. I can see how dogmatic primitivism could be particularly scary, though.

[Deep Green Resistance]

The bottom line is that we have to do something... Here’s where the solutions are. In one place, clearly laid out. The time for action is now. Now this war has two sides…

98% of the old growth forests are gone. 99% of of the prairies are gone. 80% of the rivers on this planet do not support life anymore. We are out of species, we are out soil, and we are out of time. And what we are being told by most of the environmental movement is that the way to stop all of this is through personal consumer choices. It’s time for a real strategy that truly addresses the scope of our predicament.

Where is your threshold for resistance? To take only one variable out of hundreds: Ninety percent of the large fish in the oceans are already gone. Is it 91 percent? 92? 93? 94? Would you wait till they had killed off 95 percent? 96? 97? 98? 99? How about 100 percent? Would you fight back then?

Good people have stayed silent for too long. We’re tired of ineffective, symbolic acts – piecemeal, reactive, and sad. Now our despair and anger can be matched by an even deeper joy, beyond compare, the joy of beginning to fight back, effectively. We are pleased to announce the formation of DGR Action Groups worldwide. Take the first step and join the resistance.

Learn more about the strategy, find groups that have formed near you, or find out how to start your own group at:

www.deepgreenresistance.org (http://www.deepgreenresistance.org)

[ellipsis]

this seemed relevant here: Protesters in CA disabling gas pumps.

http://www.revleft.com/vb/protesters-disable-california-t154261/index.html?t=154261


There's a doc called "The Monkeywrenching Guide" somewhere on the tubes, I'm sure you can find it, though. Environmentalism ≠ Primitivism, fuckdammit. However, Enviromentalism e Socialism.

I host it on my blog (http://sites.google.com/site/therevolutionscript/AFieldGuidetoMonkeywrenching%2C3rdedition.pdf?attr edirects=0&d=1).

[The Douche]

The bottom line is that we have to do something... Here’s where the solutions are. In one place, clearly laid out. The time for action is now. Now this war has two sides…

98% of the old growth forests are gone. 99% of of the prairies are gone. 80% of the rivers on this planet do not support life anymore. We are out of species, we are out soil, and we are out of time. And what we are being told by most of the environmental movement is that the way to stop all of this is through personal consumer choices. It’s time for a real strategy that truly addresses the scope of our predicament.

Where is your threshold for resistance? To take only one variable out of hundreds: Ninety percent of the large fish in the oceans are already gone. Is it 91 percent? 92? 93? 94? Would you wait till they had killed off 95 percent? 96? 97? 98? 99? How about 100 percent? Would you fight back then?

Good people have stayed silent for too long. We’re tired of ineffective, symbolic acts – piecemeal, reactive, and sad. Now our despair and anger can be matched by an even deeper joy, beyond compare, the joy of beginning to fight back, effectively. We are pleased to announce the formation of DGR Action Groups worldwide. Take the first step and join the resistance.

Learn more about the strategy, find groups that have formed near you, or find out how to start your own group at:

www.deepgreenresistance.org (http://www.deepgreenresistance.org)

1) DGR is a primitivst organization, and primitivists are restricted here.

2) DGR advocates an armed, insurrectionary, underground organization as part of its strategy, co-existing with a legal, above ground element. One of the people who started DGR is Lierre Keith, Ms. Keith has called the police on activists in the past. Why should individuals feel comfortable engaging in illegal acts when there are people like that involved?

[Magón]

The bottom line is that we have to do something... Here’s where the solutions are. In one place, clearly laid out. The time for action is now. Now this war has two sides…

98% of the old growth forests are gone. 99% of of the prairies are gone. 80% of the rivers on this planet do not support life anymore. We are out of species, we are out soil, and we are out of time. And what we are being told by most of the environmental movement is that the way to stop all of this is through personal consumer choices. It’s time for a real strategy that truly addresses the scope of our predicament.

Where is your threshold for resistance? To take only one variable out of hundreds: Ninety percent of the large fish in the oceans are already gone. Is it 91 percent? 92? 93? 94? Would you wait till they had killed off 95 percent? 96? 97? 98? 99? How about 100 percent? Would you fight back then?

Good people have stayed silent for too long. We’re tired of ineffective, symbolic acts – piecemeal, reactive, and sad. Now our despair and anger can be matched by an even deeper joy, beyond compare, the joy of beginning to fight back, effectively. We are pleased to announce the formation of DGR Action Groups worldwide. Take the first step and join the resistance.

Learn more about the strategy, find groups that have formed near you, or find out how to start your own group at:

www.deepgreenresistance.org (http://www.deepgreenresistance.org)

Damn you nearly gave us the whole song & dance, like a true salesman. :rolleyes: