Pretty depressing I d say

[Delenda Carthago]

The economy is an inch away from blowing up in the center of the world, and we havent seen a single text about it. Not as a presence on the social dialog, not as a presence on the unions, not even in Revleft. The president took the role of the people's hero. I guess the revolution is not even an option over there...:(

[RadioRaheem84]

Are you talking about greece or the US? In the US there is a phony debt crisis with the political parties both using it as an excuse to gut social programs. The economic powers want to bring the economy down if they don't get their way.

But I don't see financial apocalypse. Do you?

[Delenda Carthago]

I see something big, that at least should be analysed and discussed by the Left in the States. I havent seen a single text about it in here, and this I think makes it safe to say that the same state of apathy is in general in US society(about the Left opinion on the matter). If this is not a subject to do a struggle, what the fuck is? How you want to do a revolution when you are not present when shit like that go down?

[OhYesIdid]

:blink: are you saying we should be talking about how the banks are loaded with toxic debt? Are you asking for an in-depth discussion on the long term effects of the inevitable second financial crisis? I don get it, what's the issue here?

[Delenda Carthago]

:blink: are you saying we should be talking about how the banks are loaded with toxic debt? Are you asking for an in-depth discussion on the long term effects of the inevitable second financial crisis? I don get it, what's the issue here?

If that wont be a problem on the very creative discussions on antispeciesm and Glenn Beck that take place every day in here, I think there might be an interest on this irrelevant thing called economic crisis...

[The Dark Side of the Moon]

thats life for you

[OhYesIdid]

If that wont be a problem on the very creative discussions on antispeciesm and Glenn Beck that take place every day in here, I think there might be an interest on this irrelevant thing called economic crisis...

Ok, I think that the conservative right will step up against globalization and give power back to local oligarchies. I think religion will see great growth, especially Islam, and that the Arab Spring will end with a series of new neoliberal regimes that hypocritically support international trade while the first world wallows in petty nationalism and racism. I think Mitt Romney will be America's next president, a kind of Reaganesque airhead who will let the CIA secretly re-enforce its reign of terror all around the world. I think China will seize the opportunity to increase its sphere of influence. I think Chavez won't make it past another election and that pretty soon we'll have a Cuban Tiannamen, which will be the undoing of the current regime, and the advent of capitalist reform.
Jeez, happy now?

[Delenda Carthago]

Ok, I think that the conservative right will step up against globalization and give power back to local oligarchies. I think religion will see great growth, especially Islam, and that the Arab Spring will end with a series of new neoliberal regimes that hypocritically support international trade while the first world wallows in petty nationalism and racism. I think Mitt Romney will be America's next president, a kind of Reaganesque airhead who will let the CIA secretly re-enforce its reign of terror all around the world. I think China will seize the opportunity to increase its sphere of influence. I think Chavez won't make it past another election and that pretty soon we'll have a Cuban Tiannamen, which will be the undoing of the current regime, and the advent of capitalist reform.
Jeez, happy now?

you are an idiot

[OhYesIdid]

you are an idiot

well excuuuse me, princess, but I though I'll talk about what you where *****ing about being ignored. Not that I consider myself perfect, but not pointing out why I'm so fucking stupid seems more than a little idiotic. Tell me, what will happen because of the coming crisis?

[Delenda Carthago]

well excuuuse me, princess, but I though I'll talk about what you where *****ing about being ignored. Not that I consider myself perfect, but not pointing out why I'm so fucking stupid seems more than a little idiotic. Tell me, what will happen because of the coming crisis?

I was pointing out that there havent been a single analysis by a party or an organisation from the States about the whole thing, or even a single topic about the thing that goes down with US economy. The fact that you think the whole issue is something irrelevant that we better troll about, shows a lot.

[~Spectre]

The U.S. "crises" is pretty much manufactured. Even if they miss the (self imposed) August 2nd deadline, there's no reason to believe anything major will happen. In fact, if you read the business press, a lot of investment banks are keeping large amounts of cash on hand to snatch up any U.S. debt that is dumped on August 2nd, because it will still be the safest investment in the entire world.

Likewise the U.S. won't actually default on August 2nd. The various government institutions have enough tricks to keep up with things for a while after.

As for what will pass: Either a simple extension, or an extension with some spending cuts (most of it being due anyway with lowered war footprints), that leave Social Security and Medicare pretty much untouched.

Obama almost succeeded and cutting into Social Security (again, he's already stolen from this pot), but the political will doesn't seem to be there. His party is putting self preservation first.

[RadioRaheem84]

I don't think anything is going to happen, honestly.

But we will probably lose more ground as workers somehow.

And Americans still won't rise. That is depressing. That Americans think they're being "civil" for not protesting in droves for worker interests. They think what the Greeks are doing is barbaric.

I really don't know what it will take? Total destitution?

We really are the most successfully repressed nation in the world.

[Jose Gracchus]

It is amazing how docile we sometimes are.

[Libertador]

We really are the most successfully repressed nation in the world. Not to sound pessimistic but I don't believe anything short of total societal and economic collapse will ever shake the American psyche into opening up its eyes.

[RadioRaheem84]

I don't doubt that is probably what it will take but not before some turn to fascism.

[L.A.P.]

I don't doubt that is probably what it will take but not before some turn to fascism.

I definitely believe we will have a complete societal collapse and then be promised into hope by some fascist supported by big executives and the people who support the tea party, thus causing him to come into power and starting some hyper-imperialist campaign like Nazi Germany except with no one to oppose him before we even think about considering socialism. That's how bad I feel about the political morale of Americans.

[~Spectre]

I definitely believe we will have a complete societal collapse and then be promised into hope by some fascist supported by big executives and the people who support the tea party, thus causing him to come into power and starting some hyper-imperialist campaign like Nazi Germany except with no one to oppose him before we even think about considering socialism. That's how bad I feel about the political morale of Americans.

Damn. If only all Americans were as smart as you. Then, maybe, we could avoid such a global genocide...

[Libertador]

I definitely believe we will have a complete societal collapse and then be promised into hope by some fascist supported by big executives and the people who support the tea party, thus causing him to come into power and starting some hyper-imperialist campaign like Nazi Germany except with no one to oppose him before we even think about considering socialism. That's how bad I feel about the political morale of Americans."And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up." - Daniel 8:23

I think I know what the religious right would think.

[Madslatter]

Things are getting better for the left in the US compared to a year ago even. I have hope that the US won't fall (further) towards fascism, as we are frighteningly close to it, but not much that we'll get revolutionary. I think a return to a 60s level of radicalism is likely but not much beyond that. The radicalism would be profoundly different, and thus might be able to put in place some progressive reforms, which are better than nothing but galaxies from being something to settle for.

[L.A.P.]

Damn. If only all Americans were as smart as you. Then, maybe, we could avoid such a global genocide...

Not understanding your sarcasm.

[The_Outernationalist]

Don't worry, the anarchists will achieve revolution!!! they're waving placards and chanting through megaphones, this has the fascist bourgeois state shaking in it's boots!

Violence isn't the answer--placards and dancing in front of banks is! :laugh::rolleyes:

[Blackscare]

Don't worry, the anarchists will achieve revolution!!! they're waving placards and chanting through megaphones, this has the fascist bourgeois state shaking in it's boots!

Violence isn't the answer--placards and dancing in front of banks is! :laugh::rolleyes:

Warning for derailment and tendency baiting.

[Delenda Carthago]

The U.S. "crises" is pretty much manufactured. Even if they miss the (self imposed) August 2nd deadline, there's no reason to believe anything major will happen. In fact, if you read the business press, a lot of investment banks are keeping large amounts of cash on hand to snatch up any U.S. debt that is dumped on August 2nd, because it will still be the safest investment in the entire world.

Likewise the U.S. won't actually default on August 2nd. The various government institutions have enough tricks to keep up with things for a while after.

As for what will pass: Either a simple extension, or an extension with some spending cuts (most of it being due anyway with lowered war footprints), that leave Social Security and Medicare pretty much untouched.

Obama almost succeeded and cutting into Social Security (again, he's already stolen from this pot), but the political will doesn't seem to be there. His party is putting self preservation first.

First of all, the crisis is not a faked one. That is SO unrevolutionary to say. Capitalism has crisis that happen periodicaly and this is probably the deepest one ever.

What is faked, and its a worldwide thing, its the talk on the "national debt". This is something that is an ideologicaly victory of the System. And its the stepping stone for the further attack on the working class by the capitalists.

The Left have to talk to the working class. The parties, unions and organisations have to make the picture more clear. They have to analyse the crisis in depth and give it to the people simplisticly. They have to even say that there is no need for the cuts and that the crisis should be paid by the ones that created it and that we were not partners in their gains so why the fuck should we pay their loses? Where are all the texts, the demos, the blogs, the banners, the posters, the action in general that there should be at times like these? This is my question!

This is what a decent movement is doing when the working class is being attacked. On the contrary, what I get in here is trolling, mockery and excuses that there is not going to be a collapse. Seriously, I dont even know if I should bother more...

[RadioRaheem84]

I think Spectre was talking about the debt crises and raising the debt ceiling as being fake, not the actual structural financial crisis which is very real.

Why don't you explain to us AttackGR, why you believe in an imminent attack?

[Olentzero]

I was pointing out that there havent been a single analysis by a party or an organisation from the States about the whole thing, or even a single topic about the thing that goes down with US economy.If you were from the States I'd wonder what rock you'd been hiding under, but seeing as how I understand how difficult it was to know the Greek political scene from the US when I lived there, I'm cutting you a lot of slack. Just because you don't see it here, however, doesn't mean it isn't happening. Start here (http://socialistworker.org/2011/07/27/party-which-people), then read through the 'Related articles' link on the right-hand side of the page. There's plenty of analysis going on in the US radical left, if you know where to look. This is a good place to start.

[~Spectre]

On the contrary, what I get in here is trolling, mockery and excuses that there is not going to be a collapse. Seriously, I dont even know if I should bother more...

If you're going to misread everything to suit your paranoia, then yes perhaps you shouldn't bother. Your premises simply aren't true, re: No "explanations" or demos.

Thousands of people are rallying everywhere, striking, and threatening to strike, fighting not only against the Federal government's manufactured debt crisis, but against the very real campaign of austerity that the individual state governments are carrying out:




UNITED STATES


AFL-CIO chief amplifies warning to Democrats
By Kevin Bogardus - 06/07/11 01:42 PM ET
AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka amplified his call for a politically independent labor movement Tuesday and said unions too often are holding "a canceled check" after Election Day.

Trumka rallied hundreds of nurses at a conference hosted by the National Nurses United. The nurses are in Washington this week to lobby lawmakers for a financial transactions tax that could help pay for social services.

Trumka said unions want “an independent labor movement” that doesn’t support just one political party or candidate. Labor has often been unhappy with its traditional allies in the Democratic Party, and Trumka said friends of unions in Congress have often paid little heed to workers’ needs.

“For too long, we have been left after Election Day holding a canceled check waving it about — ‘Remember us? Remember us? Remember us?’ — asking someone to pay a little attention to us. Well, I don’t know about you, but I’ve had a snootful of that s--t,” Trumka said to cheers.

The head of the nation’s largest labor federation said unions must be dedicated to helping workers, not politicians.

“See, our goal is not to help candidates or parties. Our goal is to improve the lives of working people and strengthen our country, and that’s exactly what we are going to do,” Trumka said.

Trumka also repeated his metaphor of “the wrecking ball” when warning Democrats, which he used last month during a speech at the National Press Club that distanced labor from the party.

http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/165151-afl-cio-chief-amplifies-warning-to-democrats

NEW YORK
http://cbsnewyork.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/budget-cuts-protest.jpg?w=400

NEW YORK (CBS 2) — Union workers expressed their opposition to potentially devastating budget cuts by camping out overnight in the shadow of City Hall, Jay Dow reports.

They’re trying to save thousands of jobs. District 37 Union members and their supporters called the encampment “Bloombergville.”

“We need more money, we need contracts, we need everything,” said union member Sylvia Williams.

“They might as well put us on welfare with everybody else, because we can’t afford to live off what they pay us now,” said Josie Bennett, president of Local 1505.

District 37 is New York City’s largest public employees union. Members said City Hall’s proposed budget, which calls for laying off 4,100 city workers, cuts too deeply. They cite a union research report that claims the city could soften the blow by tapping more than $800 million in newly-identified potential revenue sources, including uncollected taxes.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/06/15/nyc-union-workers-camp-at-bloombergville-to-protest-budget-cuts/

New Jersey:
rE7OFMMbXTk

Note how they're symbolically burring the democrats and turning more radical.


Connecticut:


HARTFORD — Gov. Dannel P. Malloy and union leaders announced Friday that Connecticut’s state workers had rejected a deal meant to produce $1.6 billion in labor savings over two years, blowing a hole in the state’s budget and raising the likelihood of widespread layoffs.
The rejection was a startling slap to both the union leadership and to Mr. Malloy, who was elected in November with enthusiastic labor support.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/25/nyregion/connecticuts-budget-plans-are-upended-by-state-workers-vote.html

And that's just copied and paste'd from a single thread. There are hundreds more like that, let alone the Wisconsin battles that dwarfed anything the right wing was able to put out, and drew solidarity from the Egyptian protesters and workers.

American workers know full well about cuts. They've been going on since before the "debt crises" made your google news feed, son.

Protip: If you don't see something on page 1 of the Revleft politics section, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Keep that in mind the next time you feel like lashing out at everything around you and making an ass out of yourself.

But never mind, facts, YEAH BRA' AMERICAN WORKERS ARE SO TOTALLY DOCILE AND STUFF RAWR DOWN WITH THE FIRST WORLD !!1mjfefje

[Ingraham Effingham]

This is kind of a repost for me but:

I believe there are 2 problems facing the person who would otherwise be mobilized toward positive change:
1. The truth of our current circumstance is overwhelming
2. The average person can't do shit about it (at first glance)


These progressive articles and websites floating around the Internet are fantastic, but they fail. They fail hard and they fail often. Despite how well-crafted they are and how legit their message, they fail to penetrate into the popular conscience.

Now, you can ***** about the right wing propaganda and the general stupidity of the Masses, but *****ing just makes you a defeatist and ultimately alienates all those who could be persuaded to help.

We get people to help--we get an audience and mobilize that audience--by dealing with these two problems.

First, we give people a helping of the truth that they can handle--we don't make a video or write an article about the totality of the shit that's destroying this world. That's been done. It gets old. When a moderate person hears about corporate abuses delivered in sum, (like this 'crisis') he thinks he's hearing conspiracy theory. There's just too much distasteful truth to swallow in one sitting, and too many progressive organizations are fixed on delivering it all in one spoonful.

Second, we give people something they can actually do. How many times have you been fired up by a documentary about some bad shit, only too cool off at the end when you're told "How You Can Help"? Stop buying stuff, write a letter to your congressman and donate money. The only roles you're offered to play in the effort are passive and futile. People have a serious frustration inside them right now, and that frustration needs to be channeled into action--action beyond the passive and the futile.

[Fulanito de Tal]

I don't know if a serious economic crisis is imminent, but I'm stocking up on rice, canned food, ammo, fuel, and alcohol just in case.

[Metacomet]

I don't know if a serious economic crisis is imminent, but I'm stocking up on rice, canned food, ammo, fuel, and alcohol just in case.
You forgot gold and seeds.

[RadioRaheem84]

Look, there is going to be another financial calamity but you can be sure it is largely one that is manufactured on top of the bigger structural crisis, and it will be used to gut social programs and privatize the remaining public sector.

It will leave us in a worse state, but I don't think it will leave us with riots in the streets and people being hurled into FEMA camps.

It will be up to the people with what they want to do with the crumbling living standards.

I put my money on unions in American raising some hell along with some left wing groups but for the most part most Americans will not even lift a finger to do anything about it. They will remain in their homes because they think that protesting is beneath them or that they will get hurt because they think that protests are dangerous (out of fear of cops or "crazy anarchists").

I place a lot more hope in Europeans at this point to really raise hell and awaken the American public, mainly because the Arab Spring movements have been largely co-opted and solidified by the military into neo-liberal regimes. Also the press here seems to pain the Arab Springs as battles between Islamists, dictators and liberals.

[Mindtoaster]

America isn't going to default next week, if thats what this is about.

The Democrats can't possibly cave in anymore to Republican demands, which means if there still isn't progress made by the first of August, Obama will likely pass the budget unilaterally, without congressional support, and invoke a constitutional crisis.

Article 4 I believe of the 14th amendment gives him the power to do this. The Untied States cannot constitutionally default on its debt, and the country isn't by any means in a position where it has no choice but to default. So I wouldn't hold your breath for another financial meltdown just yet. A budgets getting passed one way or another

[danyboy27]

America isn't going to default next week, if thats what this is about.

The Democrats can't possibly cave in anymore to Republican demands, which means if there still isn't progress made by the first of August, Obama will likely pass the budget unilaterally, without congressional support, and invoke a constitutional crisis.

Article 4 I believe of the 14th amendment gives him the power to do this. The Untied States cannot constitutionally default on its debt, and the country isn't by any means in a position where it has no choice but to default. So I wouldn't hold your breath for another financial meltdown just yet. A budgets getting passed one way or another

the damage is already done, no need for default, the us debt will probably be downgraded anyway, and the economy is gonna tank some more.

all this posturing about the debt demonstrated to the credit rating agencies and the inherent instability of the U.S economy.

[~Spectre]

the damage is already done, no need for default, the us debt will probably be downgraded anyway, and the economy is gonna tank some more.

all this posturing about the debt demonstrated to the credit rating agencies and the inherent instability of the U.S economy.

No it won't and no it didn't.

U.S. debt is still considered, and will still be considered the safest investment in the world. Rather than take the politicians at their word, read the business press and see how investment banks and fund managers are salivating at the chance to scoop up large amounts of debt in a possible panic.

A U.S. credit downgrade would result in a downgrade for almost everyone. Why exactly is any credit agency going to to this, particularly when the U.S. has demonstrated that it can go far higher in terms of debt v. GDP than it currently is?

[RadioRaheem84]

There is no debt crisis when looks at the gross debt, something which the US media avoiding.

There most likely will not be a default but I do believe that the two parties are looking for an excuse to lower living standards by gutting social programs. That is why they're blowing all this out of proportion.

[Rusty Shackleford]

http://www.pslweb.org/liberationnews/news/debt-crisis-drama-contrived.html

[Delenda Carthago]

If you're going to misread everything to suit your paranoia, then yes perhaps you shouldn't bother. Your premises simply aren't true, re: No "explanations" or demos.

Thousands of people are rallying everywhere, striking, and threatening to strike, fighting not only against the Federal government's manufactured debt crisis, but against the very real campaign of austerity that the individual state governments are carrying out:




UNITED STATES



http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/165151-afl-cio-chief-amplifies-warning-to-democrats

NEW YORK
http://cbsnewyork.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/budget-cuts-protest.jpg?w=400


http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/06/15/nyc-union-workers-camp-at-bloombergville-to-protest-budget-cuts/

New Jersey:
rE7OFMMbXTk

Note how they're symbolically burring the democrats and turning more radical.


Connecticut:


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/25/nyregion/connecticuts-budget-plans-are-upended-by-state-workers-vote.html

And that's just copied and paste'd from a single thread. There are hundreds more like that, let alone the Wisconsin battles that dwarfed anything the right wing was able to put out, and drew solidarity from the Egyptian protesters and workers.

American workers know full well about cuts. They've been going on since before the "debt crises" made your google news feed, son.

Protip: If you don't see something on page 1 of the Revleft politics section, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Keep that in mind the next time you feel like lashing out at everything around you and making an ass out of yourself.

But never mind, facts, YEAH BRA' AMERICAN WORKERS ARE SO TOTALLY DOCILE AND STUFF RAWR DOWN WITH THE FIRST WORLD !!1mjfefje

You are kinda right. Even though I never talked on the working class of US, for which I have many times express the best opinions.

The fact is I feel a huge wave of shit coming to us and sometimes I might get a litle bit over-*****y. But that never out of lack of respect. Well, except for those who deny to get down and talk maybe.Whatever.

Just to my defence, I have to say that my research is not only based on revleft. I have many friends that are politicly active, coast to coast, and I was doing a litle research and nobody had anything to say. So I said what I said in order for it to be a wake up call, not an elitist accusation. Now we can talk about the more serious mode.

[litster]

Hi, long time reader thought it would be apart time to contribute.

I have to say this american "debt crisis" is all partisan bull. creating huge problems to score points.

what makes me laugh about the republicans in USA and the Torys in the UK is that the use this fiscal responsibility line, and how the debt is soooo bad, but forget their beloved capitalism is based on debt, and always will be.

they will raise the debt ceilling and life will go on. and in a few years we'll have this conversation again.

[CommunityBeliever]

I place a lot more hope in Europeans at this point to really raise hell and awaken the American public, mainly because the Arab Spring movements have been largely co-opted and solidified by the military into neo-liberal regimes.

This is truly a global meltdown, all workers will raise hell from the Americas to Eurasia. The Chinese state-capitalist system is also in turmoil right now. And don't lose hope in the Arab Spring yet, it is ongoing and it will keep on going until significant change occurs.

[bcbm]

You forgot gold and seeds.

in an actual total collapse gold would be basically worthless, you're better off having things like batteries, soap, toothpaste, etc to trade

[Salyut]

in an actual total collapse gold would be basically worthless, you're better off having things like batteries, soap, toothpaste, etc to trade

Alcohol and weed. As the filk song goes:


Chorus:
Black powder and alcohol
When the states and the cities fall.
When your back is against the wall,
Black powder and alcohol.

Give me charcoal to the measure two.
Send the bullet where you want it to.
Give me sulfer to the measure three.
Make that powder gonna keep you free.
Give me salt peter, measure fifteen.
Sweetest shootin' that you've ever seen.

Gimme water, yeast, and veggie trash.
Leave it sittin' in a slurry mash.
When it's ready, put it in the still.
If you can't heat it then the sunlight will.
Draw the alcohol away, and then
Ya put the slurry back and start again.

Booze will clean your cuts or run your car.
You can make it anywhere you are.
Black powder in your cartridge shell
Will send the robbers runnin' clean to hell.
You can make 'em if you just know how,
So kids, remember what I'm tellin' you now.

Again,

Yah

Note the recipe in the song is wrong - or so I've read.

[CommunityBeliever]

Not as a presence on the social dialog, not as a presence on the unions, not even in Revleft.

Don't be depressed comrade, that is merely because the media isn't going to cover the collapse of its own system but assure you the revolts and the dialogues are there. This system is coming down.

[danyboy27]

No it won't and no it didn't.

U.S. debt is still considered, and will still be considered the safest investment in the world. Rather than take the politicians at their word, read the business press and see how investment banks and fund managers are salivating at the chance to scoop up large amounts of debt in a possible panic.

A U.S. credit downgrade would result in a downgrade for almost everyone. Why exactly is any credit agency going to to this, particularly when the U.S. has demonstrated that it can go far higher in terms of debt v. GDP than it currently is?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/27/us-credit-rating-downgrade-likely_n_910513.html

[syndicat]

there's a good piece on this topic by Mike Davis here called "Crash Club":

http://www.zcommunications.org/what-happens-when-three-sputtering-economies-collide-by-mike-davis

[~Spectre]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/27/us-credit-rating-downgrade-likely_n_910513.html

That's all just political noise. They're leaking things like that to try and get political will behind austerity, but it will never happen.

As a rule, ignore any serious economic matters on political mouthpieces like the Huffington post.


Anyone seriously pushing this idea at a rating agency is likely to have their car explode before it ever comes to that. Not joking.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

The US won't "collapse" any time soon and I don't think we'll see classic 1930s fascism either, although one can't deny there is a whiff of it.

The budget crisis is stage managed to an extent, fear mongering to enforce the "shock doctrine", the tried and true tactic to create a crisis and then pr4esent neo-liberalism as the cure.

Having said this could the US right, in the absence of a real left, deliberately drive the USW into further economic difficulties? We all know how bogus this whole thing is but could a downgrading of US credit rating and or a default be the proverbial shit that hits the fan? I wish I knew a bit more about this.

[RadioRaheem84]

There wasn't even a real crisis in Greece. There isn't a real crisis anywhere except a structural one that only concerns the major players, meaning their luck in managing a system they created has been undone. They're just using the excuse of crisis to push austerity in the West, nothing more. They're willing to lower our living standards to get what they want too.

That is all that is going on. A giant worldwide class struggle. It's up to us to wake people up and let them know that their nations are not broke, that elites just want us to pay for their mistakes.

[danyboy27]

That's all just political noise. They're leaking things like that to try and get political will behind austerity, but it will never happen.

As a rule, ignore any serious economic matters on political mouthpieces like the Huffington post.


Anyone seriously pushing this idea at a rating agency is likely to have their car explode before it ever comes to that. Not joking.

i dont know, i read the article and the sources quoted seem to be ''legimimate'' has far has standard and poor can be legitimate.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Funny thing is I read this thread and then started to go off on my rounds of leftist sites to see what kinds of things they're talking about and the first page I go to the first thing I see is an article on the subject by the PSL.

http://www.pslweb.org/liberationnews/news/debt-crisis-drama-contrived.html

That's pretty simplistic and straightforward right? And then there's that whole thing about people occupying Wall Street in September and creating assemblies like they did in Greece. Although I just see that ending when the cops show up and fire tear gas into the crowd. The U.S. isn't like Greece where we have these really deep roots, the last generation of radicals ditched their peace signs and scruffy beards for the dollar and business suits. Our CP is so ridiculous, take for instance their article released today in one of their papers:
http://www.politicalaffairs.net/debt-ceiling-showdown-time-to-look-deeper/

Their way of attack is exactly like liberals, scream at Republicans and how bad they are and then just say Obama could be doing a better job and to save us we need AT LEAST another Franklin D. Roosevelt.

There is organizing going on and we are talking about it. The problem is it seems we're so marginal what we do barely ever even gets on the news. And even when we're so marginal you have many "communists" and "anarchists" analyzing events and critiquing things like a liberal would.

[Iraultzaile Ezkerreko]

I was pointing out that there havent been a single analysis by a party or an organisation from the States about the whole thing, or even a single topic about the thing that goes down with US economy. The fact that you think the whole issue is something irrelevant that we better troll about, shows a lot.

http://socialistworker.org/department/Opinion/Editorials

Starting with "The Great Debt Diversion" on June 8 all the way until now, every editorial in SW has been about the economy - apart from one editorial about Libya.