College?

[Mazzen]

What if people in a communist society do not want to go to college? I've realised that college is not for everyone. So what if one wishes to pursue a career in construction or something of the likes? If a guy wants to flip hamburgers for a living b/c he doesn't have any specific interest to further his knowledge, where does he fit in communist society? Which leads me to another question. How does it all mix in a commie society? You have people that want to educate themselves further and perhaps be a scientist, dr., teacher, &c. and you have people that just want to be finished with school after high school, and further more...what about the people that don't want to finish HS? What I really want to know is...who're the people that will "volunteer" to be garbage men or your school lunch lady? If in a commie society, one has the right to pursue his/her true career path, how do you get people to do crummy jobs that are undesireable and whatnot?

[UnionofSovietSocialistRepublics]

theres sumthing 4 everyone, if you drop out at HS there are fewer options open to you obviously as your less skilled, some of these people are the ones that will do physical jobs i presume rather than mental ones.

[Pete]

Manual labour is the most fulfilling of all the kinds of I've done. Working with my hands is exhillerating. But I also like my education, so what can you do? whatever you want to

[Iepilei]

It's always been my theory that people have their own intentions and own desires when it comes to what they want to be, and how far they wish to progress.

School is not for everyone, but I believe a BASIC understanding should be required as part of the standard "informing" process every citizen of a modern civilisation must pass through. Is college for everyone? Most certainly not, but it should be OPEN for ALL who WISH to attend. I know many individuals whom are not attending college, yet a form of trade school - learning how to rebuild engines, work in webdesign, network and repair computers, etc, etc. All of which, are decent paying jobs in the "Modern" American capitalist society.

The major statement made by alot of the capitalist supporters is that "the rich are only rich because they are intelligent and hard-workers" - which is not only far from true, but a HORRIBLE generalisation. I hardly view market and people manipulation as qualities of a "intelligent" individual. Granted it takes some dedication to do such, but it's no more of a skill than a thief has - and the hell if we allow those individuals to practice their vocation in the modern world.

In reality, what the capitalists fail to realise is the importance of ALL working individuals. Educated or not, our modern society would be nowhere without the people who think up concepts, and the people who put them together.

[redstar2000]

Here's the most recent thread on the subject...

http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?a...&f=6&t=17106&s= (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=6&t=17106&s=)

http://anarchist-action.org/forums/images/smiles/redstar.gif

The RedStar2000 Papers (http://www.anarchist-action.org/marxists/redstar2000/)
A site about communist ideas

[Pepe Cy]

Comrade Mazzen i understand your argument and you are right base on what we experience today. But you forgot something important:

WE ALL HAVE THE RIGHT AND FREEDOM OF EDUCATION in a socialist/communist society

if some people dont want to go college is their choice. but it should be clearly their will and choice

[Anarchist Freedom]

heres how i see it, it should be optional i mean it wont matter if you of course it would help you and then again this is a choice we would encourage you to go to college because it expands you mind



:che:

[Bradyman]

About the crummy jobs such as garbage men. Now I'm pretty sure that no one would strive to be a garbage man, but there is the possibility of civic duty. Dividing the undesirable jobs between the people in the community. Maybe you drive the truck once a month or so. Just an idea.

[truthaddict11]

not everyone wants to go to college and we shouldnt force people into this decision either.

[Pete]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2003, 06:45 PM
About the crummy jobs such as garbage men. Now I'm pretty sure that no one would strive to be a garbage man, but there is the possibility of civic duty. Dividing the undesirable jobs between the people in the community. Maybe you drive the truck once a month or so. Just an idea.
You may not want to be a garbage collector, but that hardly means that noone would want to be one. I mean some people could say that about cleaning toilets in a large campground, but it is far from true. This I can attest to.

[suffianr]

Most certainly not, but it should be OPEN for ALL who WISH to attend.

Exactly! Education, within a communist society, should be a right, not a privilege. People should be encouraged to study, to get qualifications etc. but the value of paper qualifications should be dumbed down a little.

Most people who go to college do so in order to secure better pay and better promotion opportunities when they work, regardless of whether it's for the government or the private sector. Their biggest motivational factor is, in a most cases, merely that.

[El Commandante]

Not everyone needs to go to college, at the moment in the UK there is a massive shortage of skilled labour ... brick layers, electricians, plumbers. Many people in these professions are able to earn salaries equivalent of that of a doctor and this is around the same as three times as much as a doctor - both who have university qualifications. People should strive for qualifications to improve themselves and the system but it does not necessarily have to be academic qualifications; vocational qualifications and apprenticeships are just as valid, if not more so given the current demand for some professions over people with media studies degrees.

[Xprewatik RED]

Well, In the USSR what we did is we had rigoruous examinations after highschool and if you couldn't cut it you were channeled to a manual labor school, i.e technical school. The smart people who made it to a great college joined into the communist party while the rest didn't.

[BuyOurEverything]

Well, In the USSR what we did is we had rigoruous examinations after highschool and if you couldn't cut it you were channeled to a manual labor school, i.e technical school.

What's wrong with that? If there's only a certain amount of room in a college, what better way to decide than intelligence and academic aptitude? It's far better than whoever can afford it.

[Xprewatik RED]

What's wrong with that? If there's only a certain amount of room in a college, what better way to decide than intelligence and academic aptitude? It's far better than whoever can afford it.

Yeah, I wasn't complaining not like now where my dad is saving money so I can go to a Western University since a former Soviet one no matter how good they are won't get me a job in a city with tons of unemployment.

[Pete]

Originally posted by Xprewatik [email protected] 16 2003, 04:39 PM
Well, In the USSR what we did is we had rigoruous examinations after highschool and if you couldn't cut it you were channeled to a manual labor school, i.e technical school. The smart people who made it to a great college joined into the communist party while the rest didn't.
Is it wrong for me to find it disturbing that the only people allowed into The Party where those would could make it into University or College? I mean I know many many intelligent adults who are self educated but do not have a degree or diplomia, partially because they fucked around in highschool. It has no bearing on their pysche if they where able to motivate themselves. Why, then, would the workers, those who do the labour that society rests on, be excluded from the mechanics of society as they exist? That is one of the problems with Western society as well...

[Xprewatik RED]

Is it wrong for me to find it disturbing that the only people allowed into The Party where those would could make it into University or College

No anyone that wanted to do well in college had to join the party, thats the point with the Soviet Union there was no freedom.

[Pete]

So, to go to college you had to be in the party.

Could you be in the party without going to college? That is perhaps a clearer way of stating my question.

[MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr]

My personal feelings on the subject is that a highschool education should be compulsatory, and a college education should be highly encouraged and be made redily available for everyone. Furthermore, I think education is the most important thing that you do in your life at that stage in your life, so I think school should be at least 240 days a year, or even compulsatory boarding school till age 18 should be encouraged. Futhermore, that enables the state to indoctrinate children with a Marxist ideology from a young age, and furthermore, discourage them from persuing a religious lifestyle. Although indoctrination of children is generally looked down upon, I feel it is better for a communist state to take that responsibility rather than to leave it to the parents. Regardless of weather or not you are going to use all the information you learn in your lifetime, I feel that a person has nothing to lose by being educated.

[Xprewatik RED]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2003, 07:34 PM
So, to go to college you had to be in the party.

Could you be in the party without going to college? That is perhaps a clearer way of stating my question.


No, but I'm sure someone could bring up a rare occasion of this happening.

[Pete]

Originally posted by Xprewatik RED+Oct 18 2003, 01:43 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Xprewatik RED @ Oct 18 2003, 01:43 PM)
[email protected] 18 2003, 07:34 PM
So, to go to college you had to be in the party.

Could you be in the party without going to college? That is perhaps a clearer way of stating my question.


No, but I&#39;m sure someone could bring up a rare occasion of this happening. [/b]
Thanks - that would be one noose around the parties neck, a separation from it and they people it is supposed to be working for. Sadly, such is the case of many parties in the world.

[Xprewatik RED]

The party wasnt a person to us, it was like a gigantic tower so tall it cast a shadow over your house, and every second it governed you.