China

[Yazman]

What I mean, is that do you think there will be any reforms made to China in order to make it a socialist nation again? Anybody know anything about their current leader, Hu Jintao?

[VI Koba]

The situation in China has reached a level where 'Reform' is out of the question... China is a full blown capitalist society now with a middle class and bourgeoisie class (factory OWNERS).

The only hope for China is to revolt against the counter revolutionary usurption of power.

Any reform attempts will just get bogged down by your standard revisionists who now control the state. In order for a state to persue a revolutionary path it must first have a revolutionary state to lead it. It would be self defeating to work with counter revolutionaries.

[Man in the White Shirt]

I think if any country could make revolutionary change through reform, it is China. They already had their "great" revolutionary leader, Mao, and I think if they try to return to Mao's orginal goals then there is a chance China could "return to the correct path".

However, that being said, I m no Maoist, and generally disagree with what Maoists agree with, but using it as a conerstone for a drive to "pure" Marxism/communism, they could have some success, althought I doubt it, the party as stated above is corrupt. Maybe some great, visionary factory worker or peasent will appear someday, although I doubt it, given the fact most party members are educated elites, a flaw that will hunt China for the years to come.

[Bradyman]

I agree with the rest of you guys. China is a capitalist nation, no doubt about that, but they do have the ability to change. I know little about this Hu guy, but from the basis of Chinese actions taken with respect to labor and industry, he seems to be far from the Mao China once had. But, China does have one of the largest industrial workforces in the world, so much crap in my room seems to be made from China. And with that labor force comes power, power that the labor at the present moment does not believe it has. All it needs is a strong leader or a group of loud voices to remove the obvious exploitation in the country. Heck, all the capitalists countries need some voices.

[Discontinuity]

I would blame the trend of China towards capitalism on the need to maintain the capitalist systems of Hong Kong and Macau. Hard to keep people happy in a socialist system when you have such dens of greed and corruption on your very doorstep, neh?

[VI Koba]

White Shirt:

Perhaps a bit off topic.. but what do you disagree with about on Maoists? I know several of them and agree with them on several issues.. perhaps we can find some unity somewhere. If you like make a seperate thread so it doesnt drift this one.

Bradyman:

The United States has one of the largest workforces in the world as well.. so doesnt India. Do you think that a labour leader in government would be able to bring sweeping changes to those countries as you believe it would in China? I'd have to disagree with that. China's revolution needs to start from teh ground up again. The Communist Party of China has long since been polluted with bourgeoisie thought and therefore it has lost its function to serve the interests of the proletariat. You have to think... the obvious exploitation in the country is coming from the chinese government.. so therefore wouldnt it make sense to remove the government?

Discontinuity:

I think in your logic about Hong Kong and Maccau you are saying that they do not have an exploited class in these areas.. Hong Kong is indeed a haven for bourgeoisie but we also have to think about what makes the bourgeoisie thrive? Isnt it the proletariat? I think we need to think more about Hong Kong and Maccau and reconsider what effects they have on China. Are we revolutionaries who will oppress the oppressor or are we reformists who will compromise and work with the oppressors? These are the questions we need to consider in regards to Hong Kong and Maccau.

[Hawker]

The Chinese people have tried hundreds of times to revolt against the Iron Fist Consumerist government of China,but in the end they've all been met with hails of bullets and tanks.The Chinese people are completely oblivious to the chance of revolution because they've all tried to solve the problem through peaceful means.But can't they see that sometimes you have to put down the pen and take up the gun and become the vanguard of the people.Someone needs to tell them how to fight.If this continues,then reform in China is completely out of the case,and the only way to bring down the government is with a bullet.

[marxstudent]

There is no hope. China is just becoming more capitalist everyday. I don't know if communism can work in every nation- one of these is China. China is so big that if they became fully capitalist, they would practically control all of the international business. By doing this, they could take over the world.. seriously. It's a scary thought. :(

[Jesus Christ]

well thats a great attitude
there is always hope, the day you believe there is no hope left is the day you become weak and lose

[marxstudent]

Ok keep telling yourself that, buddy. There's a time to fight your heart out and there's a time when you know you're going to lose. Why sacrifice everything you have and after the fight, not have enough for the future?

[crazy comie]

There is no hope for china unless there is a revoulotion.

[Jesus Christ]

if you are fighting for a certain cause, marxstudent, it is important to know your limits, but no tell yourself that your going to lose, even if the odds are against you
you have to increase your ability and power
you can always win
history shows this
there may be no hope for China to stray from capitalism by itself
but there is always hope for another revolution

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2003, 09:08 PM
There is no hope. China is just becoming more capitalist everyday. I don't know if communism can work in every nation- one of these is China. China is so big that if they became fully capitalist, they would practically control all of the international business. By doing this, they could take over the world.. seriously. It's a scary thought. :(
...more scary than US as the world COP?

China has been attacked through history... As Hu JinTao said, " We know what is the meaning of suffering, we really know the historical pain of our nation~"

I guess China won't be a problem, if, one day it became the strongest nation. It is not aggresive at all, it is culturally ingrained that the Chinese civilization, something about Confucius.

[marxstudent]

if you are fighting for a certain cause, marxstudent, it is important to know your limits, but no tell yourself that your going to lose, even if the odds are against you
you have to increase your ability and power
you can always win
history shows this
there may be no hope for China to stray from capitalism by itself
but there is always hope for another revolution

True that. You got a point there. :)

[Jesus Christ]

:) why thank you

[crazy comie]

so china will have another revoulotion.

[Jesus Christ]

hopefully

[Hawker]

Hopefully!? Hopefully won't cut it.The Chinese people are ripe for revolution,but they are too afraid or weak to act.They need a strong leader to lead them,they need someone like Mao to rise from their rank and lead to the road to Beijing.

[crazy comie]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2003, 11:54 PM
Hopefully!? Hopefully won't cut it.The Chinese people are ripe for revolution,but they are too afraid or weak to act.They need a strong leader to lead them,they need someone like Mao to rise from their rank and lead to the road to Beijing.
true but hopefully someone more like lenin

[Jesus Christ]

yea Hawk, but not a leader who is gonna starve millions needlessly afterwards

[crazy comie]

lenin didn't starve millions

[Jesus Christ]

never said he did

[crazy comie]

okay sorry i misunderstud you

[Faceless]

Perhaps you people are being a bit hasty to suggest that China is a fully blown capitalist state. It's private sector accounts for something like 1/3 of the GDP in China. That's a hell of a lot more socialist than the US or Europe. I can't say I know if the Chinese leadership are willing to push this to full privatisation. I, for one, would rather see a partial socialist state as the leading super power than the likes of the US or a united Europe. Of course, this is not to say that I wouldn't rather see China reverse it's privatisation.

[crazy comie]

yes we acnoledge china will not be compleatly capitalist for a while.