Fetishes of the Non-Marxist Variant

[Imposter Marxist]

Me and a friend were recently having a discussion about which one of us has the "weirder" fetish.

He enjoys choking his partner during the act of sex.

I find respirators, and gas masks, specially of the gothic/steam punk esque kind, sexually appealing.

EDIT: By the way, you people are the only people I can ask about this without fear of revealing personal info's or alienating anyone, so deal with it

[Princess Luna]

Gas mask is weirder, because i have never heard of it before. Choking on the other hand is a pretty common feature in BDSM from what i can gather.

[Nuvem]

In regards to erotic asphyxiation,


Author George Shuman describes the effect as such :"When the brain is deprived of oxygen, it induces a lucid, semi-hallucinogenic state called hypoxia. Combined with orgasm, the rush is said to be no less powerful than cocaine, and highly addictive".

There are empirically observable and scientifically proven reasons for why choking and/or being choked during sexual activity can be enjoyable, aside from the conditioned (learned) attraction to emotional responses to the act itself (power or powerlessness). The gas mask fetish relies entirely on socially conditioned responses to an object and is not related to material causes, and I would therefore posit that it is less "normal" and more "weird" if viewed from a naturalistic standpoint. Pleasure from choking is at least in part derived from a chemical effect on the brain and body while fixation with a particular garment on one's person is entirely a conditioned response to an object which otherwise has no sexual connotations and is in fact entirely removed from and dissimilar from the human anatomy.

[Welshy]

Neither are particularly weird. I've had partners who liked the second option, though I've never tried the gas mask thing.

[Angry Young Man]

Gas mask, simply because it's a foreign object.

[NoOneIsIllegal]

He enjoys choking his partner during the act of sex.
I fucking hate pigs like that.

[Obs]

I fucking hate pigs like that.
OH GOD WHY CAN'T I THANK THIS POST

Also, yeah, that gas mask thing is pretty weird.

[scarletghoul]

ahasGwxoi_o

[Aspiring Humanist]

Choking your partner sounds like it should be sexist or something

[Queercommie Girl]

Choking your partner sounds like it should be sexist or something

Why assume the choked partner must be a woman? (Or the choker a man) Also, why assume this is an one-way process, that one cannot allow oneself to be choked by one's partner (regardless of gender or sexuality) as well?

Seems to be based on heteronormative assumptions to me...

[Queercommie Girl]

I don't mind any kind of "weird" sexual fetishes, as long as they are safe and healthy.

What I hate are those people who explicitly or implicitly apply a patriarchal and heteronormative standard onto the whole thing.

Back to the original topic, I find both to be quite "weird", but I've had fantasies of being choked by my boyfriend during sex. However, I've never had the "gas mask" fantasy.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I must admit to a dislike of choking because it reminds me too much of that "Max Hardcore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Hardcore)"-style bullshit that makes me angry instead of arousing me. What's worse is that this fuckstick has imitators.

Gas masks on the other hand I can understand, because they make the face anonymous. I must admit that seeing a veiled face does make me wonder what's underneath, and as an imaginative young male that means I hopefully won't have to spell it out to you any further.

[bricolage]

meh, choking each other is pretty common so it doesn't seem that 'weird', you also get those guys who end up hanging themselves jacking off cos they don't bite the lemon in time or something. I've never heard of the gas mask before so I'd have to vote for that, each to their own though I'm not judging.

[NoOneIsIllegal]

meh, choking each other is pretty common
wut.
you're making me nervous for my romantic date on tuesday.

[Sasha]

Me and a friend were recently having a discussion about which one of us has the "weirder" fetish.

He enjoys choking his partner during the act of sex.

I find respirators, and gas masks, specially of the gothic/steam punk esque kind, sexually appealing.

EDIT: By the way, you people are the only people I can ask about this without fear of revealing personal info's or alienating anyone, so deal with it

your friend needs to combine your fetishes now!

choking is very dangerous, it can easily damage very essential stuff inside your throat if there was ever an topic where "its all fun and games until someone gets killed" applies too its BDSM.
best way for safe asphyxiation play is an old school gasmask with an piece of hose in place of the filter that you can close with your hand
here is an guide too (more) safe aspyx play.
http://www.fortunecity.com/westwood/carving/417/breathplay.html
http://public.diversity.org.uk/deviant/bfbreath.htm#Safety

seriously, your friend needs to find an safe way for his fetish because this very well might kill one of his partners one of these day

[Nuvem]

I fucking hate pigs like that.


Choking your partner sounds like it should be sexist or something

The "Ultra-Sensitive Leftist" tendency strikes again. All right, fuck it, no anonymity; I'm the friend and I engage in erotic asphyxiation with my partner. I suggest you hold your very offensive comments until you understand the situation rather than jumping to unreasonable conclusions. To keep the details short, she chokes me as well and the act is mutual and consensual between us.

Frankly I think it's very hetero-centric to assume that I'm a male who chokes his partner for the thrill of exercising some sort of "gender dominance". What if I were gay? What if I only enjoyed BEING choked and not doing it to others? There are numerous questions that you made no attempt to investigate and simply leaped ahead to insults. Consider some investigative and intellectual integrity before you go calling names.

[bricolage]

ITT psycho deals out truth.
but yeah I agree this 'fetish' doesn't have to be about gender domination at all.

[NoOneIsIllegal]

The "Ultra-Sensitive Leftist" tendency strikes again. All right, fuck it, no anonymity; I'm the friend and I engage in erotic asphyxiation with my partner. I suggest you hold your very offensive comments until you understand the situation rather than jumping to unreasonable conclusions. To keep the details short, she chokes me as well and the act is mutual and consensual between us.

...What if I only enjoyed BEING choked and not doing it to others? There are numerous questions that you made no attempt to investigate and simply leaped ahead to insults. Consider some investigative and intellectual integrity before you go calling names.
If I'm overly sensitive, so be it. I'm not crying my heart out over it, I just find it personally disturbing and become completely unaroused. I can understand your point if it's consensual (the only way it should be...) and such, but it still disturbs me. To each their own, but a lot of people who do it seem to have a dominance factor to it, not saying that about you necessarily.

Frankly I think it's very hetero-centric to assume that I'm a male who chokes his partner for the thrill of exercising some sort of "gender dominance". What if I were gay?
Okay, choking a person during sexual intercourse doesn't change anything unless you're pointing to the sexist comment. I find it degrading, whether it's to a man or woman.

[Sasha]

more about the dangers of ashyxiation play:

The Medical Realities of Breath Control Play

by Jay Wiseman

This is a copy of Jay Wiseman's essay on breath control. You can find this and several other informative articles by Mr. Wiseman at his site: Submissive Women Kvetch (http://members.aol.com/OldRope/) including more essays on this subject (http://members.aol.com/OldRope/breamain.htm). He is also the author of SM 101: A Realistic Introduction, an excellent book for those interested in BDSM. It is published by Greenery Press (http://www.greenerypress.com/).

(This is a copy of an essay that I have posted many times in internet newsgroups, particularly soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm (news://soc.subculture.bondage-bdsm))
Hi folks,
As many of you know, the subject of breath control play pops up here from time to time, and I often participate in the resultant threads. I notice that I repeatedly tend to post the same basic information about the physiology of what's involved, and such "re-inventing the wheel" is unnecessary. I have therefore been working on a basic "position paper" of what's involved for some time, and here it is. Assuming that it's factually accurate (and I cordially invite informed challenge on this point), this will become my "boilerplate" statement on the matter.
Given that "any subject can be written about at any length" it has been a distinct challenge to write this article. I have tried to keep it short enough so that people will actually read it, but also make it long enough to cover what I consider are the important points. I have tried to provide relevant physiological and biochemical information, but not go so deeply into detail that the average reader would get lost. I have tried to provide basic "starting point" references for my points and concerns for those who wish to research this matter further on their own (and I certainly encourage such research), but not to provide such an exhaustive list of citations that the researcher would become overwhelmed. Hopefully, my efforts have been at least adequate. My best wishes to all.
Regards,
Jay Wiseman
Copyright issues footnote: I wrote this article with the hope that it would be widely read and distributed, and without any particular expectation of financial compensation in return for writing it. Therefore, I consent to the following uses of this essay:



It's fine with me if you read it.
It's fine with me if you send it, in unaltered form and including the foreword, in private e-mail to approriate others.
It's fine with me if you post it, as mentioned in point # 2, to newsgroups and closed mailing lists.
If you put it up on a private, no-fee-to-access, website, please put it up as mentioned in point # 2 and include a link to the Greenery Press website (http://www.greenerypress.com/).
I do require that you get my specific prior permission before putting this article up on a pay-to-access website, putting it in a book offered for sale, or otherwise charge for any sort of access to it.


http://www.evilmonk.org/A/images/gp_ban.gif (http://www.greenerypress.com/)
The Medical Realities of Breath Control Play

Copyright © 1997 by Jay Wiseman, author of SM 101: A Realistic Introduction. All rights reserved. For some time now, I have felt that the practices of suffocation and/or strangulation done in an erotic context (generically known as breath control play; more properly known as asphyxiophilia) were in fact far more dangerous than they are generally perceived to be. As a person with years of medical education and experience, I know of no way whatsoever that either suffocation or strangulation can be done in a way that does not intrinsically put the recipient at risk of cardiac arrest. (There are also numerous additional risks; more on them later.) Furthermore, and my *biggest* concern, I know of no reliable way to determine when such a cardiac arrest has become imminent.
Often the first detectable sign that an arrest is approaching is the arrest itself. Furthermore, if the recipient does arrest, the probability of resuscitating them, even with optimal CPR, is distinctly small. Thus the recipient is dead and their partner, if any, is in a very perilous legal situation. (The authorities could consider such deaths first-degree murders until proven otherwise, with the burden of such proof being on the defendant). There are also the real and major concerns of the surviving partner's own life-long remorse to having caused such a death, and the trauma to the friends and family members of both parties.
Some breath control fans say that what they do is acceptably safe because they do not take what they do up to the point of unconsciousness. I find this statement worrisome for two reasons: (1) You can't really know when a person is about to go unconscious until they actually do so, thus it's extremely difficult to know where the actual point of unconsciousness is until you actually reach it. (2) More importantly, unconsciousness is a symptom, not a condition in and of itself. It has numerous underlying causes ranging from simple fainting to cardiac arrest, and which of these will cause the unconsciousness cannot be known in advance.
I have discussed my concerns regarding breath control with well over a dozen SM-positive physicians, and with numerous other SM-positive health professionals, and all share my concerns. We have discussed how breath control might be done in a way that is not life-threatening, and come up blank. We have discussed how the risk might be significantly reduced, and come up blank. We have discussed how it might be determined that an arrest is imminent, and come up blank.
Indeed, so far not one (repeat, not one) single physician, nurse, paramedic, chiropractor, physiologist, or other person with substantial training in how a human body works has been willing to step forth and teach a form of breath control play that they are willing to assert is acceptably safe -- i.e., does not put the recipient at imminent, unpredictable risk of dying. I believe this fact makes a major statement.
Other "edge play" topics such as suspension bondage, electricity play, cutting, piercing, branding, enemas, water sports, and scat play can and have been taught with reasonable safety, but not breath control play. Indeed, it seems that the more somebody knows about how a human body works, the more likely they are to caution people about how dangerous breath control is, and about how little can be done to reduce the degree of risk.
In many ways, oxygen is to the human body, and particularly to the heart and brain, what oil is to a car's engine. Indeed, there's a medical adage that goes "hypoxia (becoming dangerously low on oxygen) not only stops the motor, but also wrecks the engine." Therefore, asking how one can play safely with breath control is very similar to asking how one can drive a car safely while draining it of oil.
Some people tell the "mechanics" something like, "Well, I'm going to drain my car of oil anyway, and I'm not going to keep track of how low the oil level is getting while I'm driving my car, so tell me how to do this with as much safety as possible." (They may even add someting like "Hey, I always shut the engine off before it catches fire.") They then get frustrated when the mechanics scratch their heads and say that they don't know. They may even label such mechanics as "anti-education."
A bit about my background may help explain my concerns. I was an ambulance crewman for over eight years. I attended medical school for three years, and passed my four-year boards, (then ran out of money). I am a former member of the American Academy of Family Physicians and a former American Heart Association instructor in Advanced Cardiac Life Support. I have an extensive martial arts background that includes a first-degree black belt in Tae Kwon Do. My martial arts training included several months of judo that involved both my choking and being choked.
I have been an instructor in first aid, CPR, and various advanced emergency care techniques for over sixteen years. My students have included physicians, nurses, paramedics, police officers, fire fighters, wilderness emergency personnel, martial artists, and large numbers of ordinary citizens. I currently offer both basic and advanced first aid and CPR training to the SM community.
During my ambulance days, I responded to at least one call involving the death of a young teenage boy who died from autoerotic strangulation, and to several other calls where this was suspected but could not be confirmed. (Family members often "sanitize" such scenes before calling 911.) Additionally, I personally know two members of my local SM community who went to prison after their partners died during breath control play.
The primary danger of suffocation play is that it is not a condition that gets worse over time (regarding the heart, anyway, it does get worse over time regarding the brain). Rather, what happens is that the more the play is prolonged, the greater the odds that a cardiac arrest will occur. Sometimes even one minute of suffocation can cause this; sometimes even less.
Quick pathophysiology lesson # 1: When the heart gets low on oxygen, it starts to fire off "extra" pacemaker sites. These usually appear in the ventricles and are thus called premature ventricular contractions -- PVC's for short. If a PVC happens to fire off during the electrical repolarization phase of cardiac contraction (the dreaded "PVC on T" phenomenon, also sometimes called "R on T") it can kick the heart over into ventricular fibrillation -- a form of cardiac arrest. The lower the heart gets on oxygen, the more PVC's it generates, and the more vulnerable to their effect it becomes, thus hypoxia increases both the probability of a PVC-on-T occurring and of its causing a cardiac arrest.
When this will happen to a particular person in a particular session is simply not predictable. This is exactly where most of the medical people I have discussed this topic with "hit the wall." Virtually all medical folks know that PVC's are both life-threating and hard to detect unless the patient is hooked to a cardiac monitor. When medical folks discuss breath control play, the question quickly becomes: How can you tell when they start throwing PVC's? The answer is: You basically can't.
Quick pathophysiology lesson # 2: When breathing is restricted, the body cannot eliminate carbon dioxide as it should, and the amount of carbon dioxide in the blood increases. Carbon dioxide (CO2) and water (H2O) exist in equilibrium with what's called carbonic acid (H2CO3) in a reaction catalyzed by an enzyme called carbonic anhydrase. (Sorry, but I can't do subscripts in this program.)
Thus: CO2 + H2O <carbonic anhydrase> H2CO3
A molecule of carbonic acid dissociates on its own into a molecule of what's called bicarbonate (HCO3-) and an (acidic) hydrogen ion. (H+)
Thus: H2CO3 <> HCO3- and H+
Thus the overall pattern is:
H2O + CO2 <> H2CO3 <> HCO3- + H+
Therefore, if breathing is restricted, CO2 builds up and the reaction shifts to the right in an attempt to balance things out, ultimately making the blood more acidic and thus decreasing its pH. This is called respiratory acidosis. (If the patient hyperventilates, they "blow off CO2" and the reaction shifts to the left, thus increasing the pH. This is called respiratory alkalosis, and has its own dangers.)
Quick pathophysiology lesson # 3:
Again, if breathing is restricted, not only does carbon dioxide have a hard time getting out, but oxygen also has a hard time getting in. A molecule of glucose (C6H12O6) breaks down within the cell by a process called glycolysis into two molecules of pyruvate, thus creating a small amount of ATP for the body to use as energy. Under normal circumstances, pyruvate quickly combines with oxygen to produce a much larger amount of ATP. However, if there's not enough oxygen to properly metabolize the pyruvate, it is converted to lactic acid and produces one form of what's called a metabolic acidosis.
As you can see, either a build-up in the blood of carbon dioxide or a decrease in the blood of oxygen will cause the pH of the blood to fall. If both occur at the same time, as they do in cases of suffocation, the pH of the blood will plummet to life-threatening levels within a very few minutes. The pH of normal human blood is in the 7.35 to 7.45 range (slightly alkaline). A pH falling to 6.9 (or raising to 7.8) is "incompatible with life."
Past experience, either with others or with that same person, is not particularly useful. Carefully watching their level of consciousness, skin color, and pulse rate is of only limited value. Even hooking the bottom up to both a pulse oximeter and a cardiac monitor (assuming you had either piece of equipment, and they're not cheap) would be of only limited additional value.
While an experienced clinician can sometimes detect PVC's by feeling the patient's pulse, in reality the only reliable way to detect them is to hook the patient up to a cardiac monitor. The problem is that each PVC is potentially lethal, particularly if the heart is low on oxygen. Even if you "ease up" on the bottom immediately, there's no telling when the PVC's will stop. They could stop almost at once, or they could continue for hours.
In addition to the primary danger of cardiac arrest, there is good evidence to document that there is a very real risk of cumulative brain damage if the practice is repeated often enough. In particular, laboratory studies of repeated brief interruption of blood flow to the brains of animals and studies of people with what's called "sleep apnea syndrome" (in which they stop breathing for up to two minutes while sleeping) document that cumulative brain damage does occur in such cases.
There are many documented additional dangers. These include, but are _not_ limited to: rupture of the windpipe, fracture of the larynx, damage to the blood vessels in the neck, dislodging a fatty plaque in a neck artery which then travels to the brain and causes a stroke, damage to the cervical spine, seizures, airway obstruction by the tongue, and aspiration of vomitus. Additionally, there are documented cases in which the recipient appeared to fully recover but was found dead several hours later.
The American Psychiatric Association estimates a death rate of one person per year per million of population -- thus about 250 deaths last year in the U.S. Law enforcement estimates go as much as four times higher. Most such deaths occur during solo play, however there are many documented cases of deaths that occurred during play with a partner. It should be noted that the presence of a partner does nothing to limit the primary danger, and does little or nothing to limit most of the secondary dangers.
Some people teach that choking can be safely done if pressure on the windpipe is avoided. Their belief is that pressing on the arteries leading to the brain while avoiding pressure on the windpipe can safely cause unconsciousness. The reality, unfortunately, is that pressing on the carotid arteries, _exactly_ as they recommend, presses on baroreceptors known as the carotid sinus bodies. These bodies then cause vasodilation in the brain, thus there is not enough blood to perfuse the brain and the recipient loses consciousness. However, that's not the whole story.
Unfortunately, a message is also sent to the main pacemaker of the heart, via the vagus nerve, to decrease the rate and force of the heartbeat. Most of the time, under strong vagal influence, the rate and force of the heartbeat decreases by one third. However, every now and then, the rate and force decreases to zero and the bottom "flatlines" into asystole --another, and more difficult to treat, form of cardiac arrest. There is no way to tell whether or not this will happen in any particular instance, or how quickly. There are many documented cases of as little as five seconds of choking causing a vagal-outlfow-induced cardiac arrest.
For the reason cited above, many police departments have now either entirely banned the use of choke holds or have reclassified them as a form of deadly force. Indeed, a local CHP officer recently had a $250,000 judgment brought against him after a nonviolent suspect died while being choked by him.
Finally, as a CPR instructor myself, I want to caution that knowing CPR does little to make the risk of death from breath control play significantly smaller. While CPR can and should be done, understand that the probability of success is likely to be less than 10%.
I'm not going to state that breath control is something that nobody should ever do under any circumstances. I have no problem with informed, freely consenting people taking any degree of risk they wish. I am going to state that there is a great deal of ignorance regarding what actually happens to a body when it's suffocated or strangled, and that the actual degree of risk associated with these practices is far greater than most people believe.
I have noticed that, when people are educated regarding the severity and unpredictability of the risks, fewer and fewer choose to play in this area, and those who do continue tend to play less often. I also notice that, because of its severe and unpredictable risks, more and more SM party-givers are banning any form of breath control play at their events.
If you'd like to look into this matter further, here are some references to get you started:




Emergency Care in the Streets by Caroline (I'd recommend starting here.)
Medical Physiology by Guyton
The Pathologic Basis of Disease by Robbins
Textbook of Advanced Cardiac Life Support by American Heart Association
The Physiology Coloring Book by Kapit, Macey, and Meisami
Forensic Pathology by DeMaio and Demaio
Autoerotic Fatalities by Hazelwood
Melloni's Illustrated Medical Dictionary by Dox, Melloni, and Eisner


People with questions or comments can contact me at http://www.greenerypress.com/ (http://www.greenerypress.com//) or write to me at
P.O. Box 1261, Berkeley, CA 94701. Regards,
Jay Wiseman

[Nuvem]

Frankly, I do it to my partner because she requests that I do, but I never take her to the dangerous territory of hypoxia because she's afraid of the dangers that Psycho listed above. l enjoy the sensation because it causes a rush not dissimilar from various drugs. As I quoted above,


"When the brain is deprived of oxygen, it induces a lucid, semi-hallucinogenic state called hypoxia. Combined with orgasm, the rush is said to be no less powerful than cocaine, and highly addictive".

^This is why I do it. I'm mostly the one who's being choked in this scenario. I don't find it degrading, and she doesn't find it degrading when I do it to her. This is why I found the comments so offensive.

[synthesis]

Gas masks because they make me think of 1. riot police and 2. Fallout, both of which I would place on my list of the twenty least sexually appealing things ever.

[Sasha]

problem with choking is that you are most often not only messing with you oxygen intake but also with the blood flow towards your brain so you run an very real risk on strokes etc.
also your necks artery's are pretty fragile and you dont have back up if you destroy one, it will lead to brain damage fast.

again, i hope you and your GF are willing to think about more safe ways to find the same rush in your sexplay, i dont say dont do it, i say do it more safe.

[synthesis]

Also, the gas mask make me think of that scene in Eastbound & Down where Kenny Powers is calling a prostitute on the phone and asks her, "Can I wear the Scream mask? The mask from Scream. While I do you from behind," and then she hangs up on him.

bgDaVLCaBzQ 2:55

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

Fuck all your weird fetishes. The only thing I have a fetish for is ass, and that's becoming more and more socially acceptable as time passes.

[Obs]

I fucking hate pigs like that.


OH GOD WHY CAN'T I THANK THIS POST

Also, yeah, that gas mask thing is pretty weird.
I retract my previous statement, I honestly thought NOII was making a joke about cops.

[Il Medico]

Neither of these are really all that weird truth be told.

Come back to me when the choices are something along the lines of getting your genitals rubbed with warm honey and tickled with a dead badger.

[Manic Impressive]

what's also good is when you get a cloth soaked in amyl nitrate and cover each others mouths and noses with it for a few seconds, especially when you're about to climax.

[Taikand]

Why don't you just use drugs?Safer, same effect.

[Aurora]

Come back to me when the choices are something along the lines of getting your genitals rubbed with warm honey and tickled with a dead badger.
I'd give it a shot, would want to wear a gas mask though in case of TB :thumbup1:

[The Man]

This thread scares me:ohmy:

[Obs]

This thread scares me:ohmy:
Seriously? What are you, 15?

Oh, right...

[Il Medico]

Also, out of curiousity, what the fuck would a Marxist fetish be? Stalin-Trotsky Role play? (one gets an ice pick in the end) Stalin cos play with free mustache ride? The rising of the poletariat to seize the means of seduction? Possibly with a brief discussion of rear-entryism?

[Obs]

Also, out of curiousity, what the fuck would a Marxist fetish be? Stalin-Trotsky Role play? (one gets an ice pick in the end) Stalin cos play with free mustache ride? The rising of the poletariat to seize the means of seduction? Possibly with a brief discussion of rear-entryism?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_fetishism

[LegendZ]

I like being roughed around. Just something about being powerless that makes me want more. rawr.