Super Congress

[Cyberwave]

Super Congress: Debt Ceiling Negotiators Aim to Create New Legislative Body. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/23/super-congress-debt-ceiling_n_907887.html)

This is pretty stupid, really. There's really no accountability or competence left within Congress, it seems. America seems pretty desperate now.

[Libertador]

This just shows how broken the American way of doing things is. Honestly America is going to destroy itself before the Liberal-Marxist-Anarchist-Muslim-Homosexual-Socialist agenda does.

I keep telling my Latino friends they may want to consider moving back to Latin America and that I may very well join them.

[Revy]

Shortly after taking office, Obama held a major conference on deficit reduction and subsequently created, by executive order, The National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform. The White House made two telling appointments to chair the commission: The first was former Sen. Alan Simpson (R-Wy.), a well known and ill informed critic of Social Security who earned notoriety by suggesting, among other things, that the American government had become "a milk cow with 310 million tits!"

His Democratic appointment was even more indicative of whose interests took priority, former Sen. Erskine Bowles (http://www.morganstanley.com/company/governance/board.html)(D-N.C.). Bowles is a member of Morgan Stanley's board of directors; an adviser to Carousel Capital, a private equity firm; and is a director of Cousins Properties Incorporated, a firm with significant investments in commercial and mixed-use real estate.Oh those two are perfect to reduce the debt.:rolleyes:

[Die Neue Zeit]

The Presidium of the All-Russia/All-Union Central Executive Committee and the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR were much better at this function than this glorified committee.

[Susurrus]

Look up in the sky! It's a bird! It's a plane! No, it's Super Congress in their private jets flying above the ruin of America.

[Libertador]

Look up in the sky! It's a bird! It's a plane! No, it's Super Congress in their private jets flying out of the ruin of America.

Fixed.

[heyjoe]

the use of a "super congress" committee, which will be handpicked to ensure the desired result, and the subsequent limitation on debate and ability of individual members of congress to add amendments to what the super congress comes up with and an up or down vote only, is to ensure the result that Wall St., international bankers and the top 2% want which is more for themselves and less for us without the messiness of actual debates and amendments.

[Martin Blank]

The 18th Brumaire of Barack Obama, anyone?

[Gustav HK]

The 18th Brumaire of Barack Obama, anyone?

You think he will make a coup and declare himself emperor?

[JustMovement]

I actually think that would be kind of awesome, in a very apocalyptical scary way. We are on the brink of a new Era, an Era of Obamunism!

[Martin Blank]

You think he will make a coup and declare himself emperor?

If this "Super Congress" idea is implemented, it would be akin to the 18th Brumaire: the date when Bonaparte overthrew the National Assembly. Obviously, it would not be an exact match -- history rarely gives us literal replays -- but the dynamics would be similar. And as for being emperor, the imperial presidency in the U.S. is already as close to such a position as one can get without inclusion of dynastic succession.

[danyboy27]

America, the politburo 2.0.

in a close future, congress and the senate will be nothing but a series of bureaucratic rubber stamp approving what the supercongress decide dictated by corporations instructions.

[Jose Gracchus]

If this "Super Congress" idea is implemented, it would be akin to the 18th Brumaire: the date when Bonaparte overthrew the National Assembly. Obviously, it would not be an exact match -- history rarely gives us literal replays -- but the dynamics would be similar. And as for being emperor, the imperial presidency in the U.S. is already as close to such a position as one can get without inclusion of dynastic succession.

The new "Super Congress" panel, by including the political leaderships and chamber leaderships, would in essence be a new Senatus in the Roman sense; a collegial body or senior statesmen, who held their auctoritas by virtues of their magistrates and completion of a cursus honorum. It would basically amount to a constitutional abrogation of Congress by robbing it of any de facto political legitimacy and initiative. And how more perfect to accomplish this than by that siren call for bipartisanship?

[Martin Blank]

The new "Super Congress" panel, by including the political leaderships and chamber leaderships, would in essence be a new Senatus in the Roman sense; a collegial body or senior statesmen, who held their auctoritas by virtues of their magistrates and completion of a cursus honorum. It would basically amount to a constitutional abrogation of Congress by robbing it of any de facto political legitimacy and initiative. And how more perfect to accomplish this than by that siren call for bipartisanship?

I had been thinking more in terms of a Privy Council, but your analogy is equally valid.

[Die Neue Zeit]

The new "Super Congress" panel, by including the political leaderships and chamber leaderships, would in essence be a new Senatus in the Roman sense; a collegial body or senior statesmen, who held their auctoritas by virtues of their magistrates and completion of a cursus honorum. It would basically amount to a constitutional abrogation of Congress by robbing it of any de facto political legitimacy and initiative. And how more perfect to accomplish this than by that siren call for bipartisanship?

Most Americans today hold a very, very low opinion of "Congress" and the House, in particular. There isn't much de facto political legitimacy and initiative to grab from the House these days. I think the 435-member limit (as opposed to the Article the First / Thirty Thousand.org proposal) has much to do with this.

[Jose Gracchus]

I had been thinking more in terms of a Privy Council, but your analogy is equally valid.

The Roman Senate originally existed for the advice and faith of the Roman Rex, and means literally Council of Elders (from senex; "old man"). So there really is near to no substantial difference. The res pvblica was founded when the Senate's leading families launched a coup against the Etruscan monarchs. In the case of either oligarchical power beside a king or ostensibly 'republican' principate, the function and logic is essentially the same.

I think it is safe to say that the American republic is under substantial political decay, and the grand bourgeoisie may no longer feel they have enough freedom of movement restrained (however lightly) by traditional constitutionalism. The archaic character of the U.S. Constitution provides substantial limitations to the kind of austerity ram-throughs that have occurred in parliamentary Europe.

[heyjoe]

interestingly this proposal for a super congress has been meeting as much opposition and condemnation from the tea party right as the left in the last few days. of course Wall St. and big business remain enthralled with the concept.

[Martin Blank]

interestingly this proposal for a super congress has been meeting as much opposition and condemnation from the tea party right as the left in the last few days. of course Wall St. and big business remain enthralled with the concept.

The thing is, though, that these objections from the liberals and the Nativists are not over the anti-democratic character of the Super Congress, but over what they might do. The liberals oppose it because it might lead to cuts in Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid; the Tea Party opposes it because it might lead to higher taxes on the wealthy. No faction of the ruling classes has objected to the existence of this body in and of itself.

[Welshy]

Any updates on this? Is in the bill that just passed the House and is Reid still supporting it?

[heyjoe]

it s in the bill the house just passed.

[Martin Blank]

The House passed the "Cut, Cap and Balance" deal demanded by the Nativist wing, but it was quickly voted down in the Senate. That clears the way for Harry Reid's "compromise" proposals, which are the same as Boehner's, except that it would push debt negotiations further down the road by about six months (from fall 2011 to spring 2012). The "Super Congress," cuts and such will be a part of this Democratic Party "compromise".

[Welshy]

Well there has been a change made to this Super Congress.

If there measures aren't adopted by the government, then there is an automatic 1.8 trillion dollar cut to spending specifically going after social spending (Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, etc) around Thanksgiving. This is meant to pressure congress into accepting this measures.

EDIT: Here is the Huffington Post article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/31/super-congress-debt-ceiling-deficit-deal_n_914272.html

I also heard this on Msnbc just a couple minutes ago.

[eric922]

This whole argument over the debt ceiling is so stupid. They never had a problem raising it before, hell Ron "Small Government" Reagan raised it 18 times and spent more than every president before him combined.

Seriously I think this all just a way to push through austerity measures and cut SS and medicare. The social-safety net for the working class in American is already very weak compared to the one in Europe and this just shreds it even more.

I'll say this Kucinich,Sanders, and whoever else votes against cutting those programs has my respect for at least caring about the working class even if I disagree with their politics.

[TheGodlessUtopian]

Ah, American politics. While I should never be surprised about what bullshit they comes up with next, I continuously am.

[RED DAVE]

Actually, it should be called the "Supper Congress." They are going to eat the rest of us for supper.

RED DAVE

[ckaihatsu]

What's the next step for them after that -- inbreeding???!

[Die Neue Zeit]

I think it is safe to say that the American republic is under substantial political decay, and the grand bourgeoisie may no longer feel they have enough freedom of movement restrained (however lightly) by traditional constitutionalism. The archaic character of the U.S. Constitution provides substantial limitations to the kind of austerity ram-throughs that have occurred in parliamentary Europe.

Because of the political situation and organizational mess in the US, would two revolutionary stages be necessary?

I know I've ranted against council fetishes from those of left-coms and Marxist Humanists to those of Arendt, but they might be useful for the first and more populist revolutionary stage, preceding the more organized and working-class stage of party-movement revolution.

[RED DAVE]

Because of the political situation and organizational mess in the US, would two revolutionary stages be necessary?

I know I've ranted against council fetishes from those of left-coms and Marxist Humanists to those of Arendt, but they might be useful for the first and more populist revolutionary stage, preceding the more organized and working-class stage of party-movement revolution.What the fuck are you ranting about?

SUGGESTION: Go out and join a revolutionary organization, any one, any tendency, or just a mass organization, antiwar, whatever, and start pushing your idea du jour. Let us know what happens.

RED DAVE