So Boner walks out - BUT - Obama CONFIRMS that he was willing to sacrifice SS, etc.!!

[tanklv]

Do you want the bad news or even worse news?

Yea! (cough, cough) we're heading for the cliff!!!

Any deal to resolve this contrived "debt crisis" is off for now because Boner (the dick - but I repeat myself) refused to consider any - ANY - tax increases on the vermin millionairs and BILLIONAIRS who CAUSED THIS DEPRESSION IN THE FIRST PLACE and MADE OUT LIKE BANDITS while the rest of us are suffering by seeing the great TRANSFER OF WEALTH FROM THE POOR AND MIDDLE CLASSES TO THE UBER WEALTHY continue uninterrupted.

But - what has been confired at the same time by OBAMA HIMSELF: Obama - in SECRET talks - agreed to 650 BILLION dollars in CUTS TO SOCIAL SECURITY, MEDICAID, & MEDICARE - which is MORE than the 500 billion dollars that was the best repuke offer on the table, BTW!

And THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE A GOOD THING!!!

I want to pull what little hair I have left out!!!

So - this poker player, who had shit cards, just out bluffed the bandits who hold ACES when they called - after betting that these bandits would not only be allowed to rape his wife and daughters, hand over the ranch and limo, plus all the cash piled on the table, while the bandits gambled with cutting his salary and letting them keep the cash they already stole from the bank - but they were so stupid/greedy/pick one - that they STILL FOLDED - is supposed to be THANKED and PRAISED for this strategy?!!!

Sorry for this ill composed diatribe - but maybe someone could compose a better synopsis...

[Metacomet]

Anyone else want to go start a co-op farm in Mexico somewhere?

[Ocean Seal]

Anyone else want to go start a co-op farm in Mexico somewhere?
Nope, what I do want to do is organize our class and end this shit right now. The worst part of it all is that even after all of this happens we don't do anything to retaliate. I remember I was at a talk one day and I heard a man who said that the fact that there were no strikes, riots, or uprising's after Bush was elected the first time and voter fraud was probable showed how culturally advanced Americans were. I still think it just shows how poorly our class is organized and the oppressor is laughing at our "cultural advancement".

[Metacomet]

Nope, what I do want to do is organize our class and end this shit right now. The worst part of it all is that even after all of this happens we don't do anything to retaliate. I remember I was at a talk one day and I heard a man who said that the fact that there were no strikes, riots, or uprising's after Bush was elected the first time and voter fraud was probable showed how culturally advanced Americans were. I still think it just shows how poorly our class is organized and the oppressor is laughing at our "cultural advancement".


I said that to someone today.

The worst part will be is the fact that people won't be mass rioting in the streets ala Greece when we get what is going to amount to our "austerity package"

[tanklv]

What's really pathetic, if all the polling statistics are correct, is that almost HALF of the country is just ducky with the REPUKES!!!!

Put that in your pipe and smoke on it for awhile...

The blatent lies/propaganda that is allowed 24/7/365 without a comparable counter has boosted these modern KKK/brownshirt IGNORANT sheeple to actually vote AGAINST their true self interests!

The isolation of the average individual, do to "creature comforts" and all the other mindless diversions is truely gargantuan.

The IGNORANT idiots - many of them COLLEGE EDUCATED see themselves as just THIS FAR AWAY from getting the BIG BREAK to make themselves the NEXT MILLIONAIRE, instead of seeing that actually but for their incredible LUCKY CIRCUMSTANCE, they are just a few missed paychecks away from joining the worst of the abject poor and powerless.

They believe ACTUAL LIES - even when confronted with the undeniable proven TRUTH! They get to just "believe" in their closely held "beliefs" no matter what - and don't anybody DARE to show them anything different!

Just showing them something on tape that has someone actually saying the opposite of what they claimed they "never said" produces the most amazing gymnastics of trying to claim what is recorded is not true!

It is truly amazing to see.

To even try to shake things up and organize, is like rolling the perverbial boulder up a hill...

[~Spectre]

Do you want the bad news or even worse news?

Yea! (cough, cough) we're heading for the cliff!!!




I think you watch too much cable news.

[Lucretia]

What's really pathetic, if all the polling statistics are correct, is that almost HALF of the country is just ducky with the REPUKES!!!!

Put that in your pipe and smoke on it for awhile...

The blatent lies/propaganda that is allowed 24/7/365 without a comparable counter has boosted these modern KKK/brownshirt IGNORANT sheeple to actually vote AGAINST their true self interests!

The isolation of the average individual, do to "creature comforts" and all the other mindless diversions is truely gargantuan.

The IGNORANT idiots - many of them COLLEGE EDUCATED see themselves as just THIS FAR AWAY from getting the BIG BREAK to make themselves the NEXT MILLIONAIRE, instead of seeing that actually but for their incredible LUCKY CIRCUMSTANCE, they are just a few missed paychecks away from joining the worst of the abject poor and powerless.

They believe ACTUAL LIES - even when confronted with the undeniable proven TRUTH! They get to just "believe" in their closely held "beliefs" no matter what - and don't anybody DARE to show them anything different!

Just showing them something on tape that has someone actually saying the opposite of what they claimed they "never said" produces the most amazing gymnastics of trying to claim what is recorded is not true!

It is truly amazing to see.

To even try to shake things up and organize, is like rolling the perverbial boulder up a hill...

Looks like another angry liberal stuck in the beltway two-party mindset. How do they keep ending up on a revolutionary leftist web site?

Just remember that Republican "intransigence" has spared entitlement programs so far. Something Obama is furious about. This should disabuse you of this notion that Democrats are friends of the working-class and standing up to those evil "Repukes." You shouldn't be surprised at what is happening. It is predictable. Austerity, the rolling back of the social safety net, has been enacted all throughout the western world. The state is being asked to step out of potentially profitable services. (Capitalism, it turns out, needs it instead.) Did you think the US would be spared? Did you think Democraps would stand up against it? I'm just surprised it took as long as it did for this nonsense to get underway here. I suppose the 2010 midterms were the reason for that. Oh, and also the fact that the US was at the epicenter of the meltdown.

[Martin Blank]

I think it's pretty easy to stand back and give objective responses to someone's outrage over what's happening in Washington when you're not directly affected by the outcome. I'm very worried about the situation, because I receive Social Security and am on Medicare. And, yes, the bulk of my anger is directed at "Bush's Third Term" Obama, since he was the one willing to cut into these programs even deeper than the GOP proposed.

[Pretty Flaco]

I'm not on SS or medicare, but my grandmother and older uncle are and they're going to be in deep shit if both of those services disappear.

Thanks Obama, o great leader of the people, bringer of progress.

[ZeroNowhere]

This person reminds me of pranabjyoti. I would almost feel a sense of nostalgia, but on second thought I won't.


I think it's pretty easy to stand back and give objective responses to someone's outrage over what's happening in Washington when you're not directly affected by the outcome.So clearly those who are simply have to put in special effort. It's hardly the greatest hardship they'll have to endure in the coming months, after all.


REPUKESI initially had no idea what this meant. I presently have no idea why it exists.

[Geiseric]

This person reminds me of pranabjyoti. I would almost feel a sense of nostalgia, but on second thought I won't. So clearly those who are simply have to put in special effort. It's hardly the greatest hardship they'll have to endure in the coming months, after all. I initially had no idea what this meant. I presently have no idea why it exists. I know what you mean.

[tanklv]

Well fuckingthankyouverymuch to all the '"purists" that have responded.

"Oh, lookit this ignorant newcommer - ha ha ha ha ha - he's so "last century"! ha ha ha ha ha That'll create solidarity fast - NOT!

"Purinboti" (I'm purposly mispelling that) what the fuck is that shit? Try speaking in terms so everyone can understand, OK? I, along with many others, am still learning the ropes, having tried to work within the "system" and finally, slowly realizing the futility of that process now after many years. It's quite a shakeup personally.

"Repukes" for the uniformed is our ridicule of the term for republicans because we puke a little everytime we think of them let alone speak their term. It's a direct result for a long time of their deliberately using the term "democrat" as an adjective - anything to denegrate democracy and they get to use democRAT - cute, get it? At the same time, they get to emphasise "republican" for general discourse, to legitimize their Party and delegitimize "democratic" and "democracy". Of course I'm being sarcastic here. Yes it's also childish - but we refuse to even give them any form of "respect" where none is deserving.

But go ahead - I'm new to all this here, as are many others now - denegrate anyone who isn't already a "revolutionary" for many years - you'll fit in well with all the obamabots who love to denegrate anyone who isn't in lock step with their "saint".

I thought we were here to further in the struggle for the betterment of mankind - you know, EVERYONE. We do see that the very wealthy have finally gotten out-of-control - again - and appeasement no longer works. They have no concept of "faiir play" or even empathy for the common man - their concepts are so twisted: Like the boss who says to you "Yeah, I too am suffering JUST LIKE YOU!" (who can't get to work because your shitcan 20 year old car broke down) "I just had to take my porche convertible out of storage and can't get a decent detailer so I can take a trip to my vacation home in the mountaints!"

My last bosses just bought brand new bently sportscars that they parked in their parking spaces right next to us employees, at the same them they are laying off workers because they can't afford us!!!

The US isn't like pre-revolutionary Russia or France - people are not running around in abject destitution - oh - there are small pockets of it that can be ignored by the PTB - but most are fucking downright COMFORTABLE no matter how much they may "complain" and half are misdirected by their religious fundamentalism, and cable Tee Vee and IPODS (that they go into huge debt for) to actually agree with the very wealthy who are screwing us all!

They all think that they are going to be the next MILLIONAIRE or BILLIONAIRE if only this ONE thing goes their way or they just get their next "lucky break"! no matter that they are being foreclosed on and just lost their job of twenty years and have no health care. LOOK! - OVER THERE! SOME FILTHY BLACK MOTHER OF 2 JUST GOT A FOODSTAMP! LAZY SONSOF*****ES! THEY'RE STEALING FROM MEEEEE! Couple that with: YOU HAVE A SUCCESSFUL UNION AND I DON'T!!! GOT TO FIGHT YOU TO FORCE YOU TO RID YOU OF YOUR UNION SO YOU CAN HAVE SHIT WAGES AND CONDITIONS JUST LIKE MEEEEEE!!!

When in truth, they will NEVER get that "lucky break" because it's all in WHO you know, not WHAT you know or no matter what your skills/merits are.

And we're dealing with supposedly very educated people here!

Then you have half the other half who think this is nothing but a freaking ballgame - and as long as it's THEIR "team", what ever their team does is just ducky, even if just seconds before, those they fought agains DID THE VERY SAME THINGS!!!

So spare us your platitudes and slogans...

[tanklv]

I think you watch too much cable news.

Funny - I laughed, too at that...

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

What's really pathetic, if all the polling statistics are correct, is that almost HALF of the country is just ducky with the REPUKES!!!!

I think that's almost half of registered voters, which is far from half of the total number of people in the country. The last time I checked, less than half of the population is registered to vote.

[tanklv]

I think that's almost half of registered voters, which is far from half of the total number of people in the country. The last time I checked, less than half of the population is registered to vote.

That's a good point. I think it's around 33%.

But along with "it's not the vote that counts, but who counts the votes", those that vote ARE the defacto pool that is considered when counting people's affiliations.

I know I'm so disgusted after 40 plus years of voting, that for the first time I, along with my also disgusted partner, am not definitely not going for "the lesser of 2 evils" anymore.

I think that figure is going to get MUCH worse and even much less "representative"...

[Lucretia]

Well fuckingthankyouverymuch to all the '"purists" that have responded.

"Oh, lookit this ignorant newcommer - ha ha ha ha ha - he's so "last century"! ha ha ha ha ha That'll create solidarity fast - NOT!

"Purinboti" (I'm purposly mispelling that) what the fuck is that shit? Try speaking in terms so everyone can understand, OK? I, along with many others, am still learning the ropes, having tried to work within the "system" and finally, slowly realizing the futility of that process now after many years. It's quite a shakeup personally.

"Repukes" for the uniformed is our ridicule of the term for republicans because we puke a little everytime we think of them let alone speak their term. It's a direct result for a long time of their deliberately using the term "democrat" as an adjective - anything to denegrate democracy and they get to use democRAT - cute, get it? At the same time, they get to emphasise "republican" for general discourse, to legitimize their Party and delegitimize "democratic" and "democracy". Of course I'm being sarcastic here. Yes it's also childish - but we refuse to even give them any form of "respect" where none is deserving.

But go ahead - I'm new to all this here, as are many others now - denegrate anyone who isn't already a "revolutionary" for many years - you'll fit in well with all the obamabots who love to denegrate anyone who isn't in lock step with their "saint".

I thought we were here to further in the struggle for the betterment of mankind - you know, EVERYONE. We do see that the very wealthy have finally gotten out-of-control - again - and appeasement no longer works. They have no concept of "faiir play" or even empathy for the common man - their concepts are so twisted: Like the boss who says to you "Yeah, I too am suffering JUST LIKE YOU!" (who can't get to work because your shitcan 20 year old car broke down) "I just had to take my porche convertible out of storage and can't get a decent detailer so I can take a trip to my vacation home in the mountaints!"

My last bosses just bought brand new bently sportscars that they parked in their parking spaces right next to us employees, at the same them they are laying off workers because they can't afford us!!!

The US isn't like pre-revolutionary Russia or France - people are not running around in abject destitution - oh - there are small pockets of it that can be ignored by the PTB - but most are fucking downright COMFORTABLE no matter how much they may "complain" and half are misdirected by their religious fundamentalism, and cable Tee Vee and IPODS (that they go into huge debt for) to actually agree with the very wealthy who are screwing us all!

They all think that they are going to be the next MILLIONAIRE or BILLIONAIRE if only this ONE thing goes their way or they just get their next "lucky break"! no matter that they are being foreclosed on and just lost their job of twenty years and have no health care. LOOK! - OVER THERE! SOME FILTHY BLACK MOTHER OF 2 JUST GOT A FOODSTAMP! LAZY SONSOF*****ES! THEY'RE STEALING FROM MEEEEE! Couple that with: YOU HAVE A SUCCESSFUL UNION AND I DON'T!!! GOT TO FIGHT YOU TO FORCE YOU TO RID YOU OF YOUR UNION SO YOU CAN HAVE SHIT WAGES AND CONDITIONS JUST LIKE MEEEEEE!!!

When in truth, they will NEVER get that "lucky break" because it's all in WHO you know, not WHAT you know or no matter what your skills/merits are.

And we're dealing with supposedly very educated people here!

Then you have half the other half who think this is nothing but a freaking ballgame - and as long as it's THEIR "team", what ever their team does is just ducky, even if just seconds before, those they fought agains DID THE VERY SAME THINGS!!!

So spare us your platitudes and slogans...

You will get nowhere fast on this board trying to chide people for not applauding your one-sided harangue against Republicans, as if the Democrats are any better. Your post reveals you still think the problem with Obama and the Democraps is that they are bad negotiators or bad strategists. They're not. These austerity packages, slanted toward redistributing wealth upward through privatization, is a core principle of the democratic party. They are a bourgeois party, always have been, and will always will be. They are devoted to pursuing the interests of the bourgeoisie, though their approach and tone are sometimes different from the bad-cop brethren. There was a time when bourgeois interests coincided with a strong economic safety net buttressed by social welfare programs. Not any longer. The sooner you break free from viewing politics through the obscuring prism that cable news creates, the sooner actual politics will begin to make sense to you.

[Martin Blank]

So clearly those who are simply have to put in special effort. It's hardly the greatest hardship they'll have to endure in the coming months, after all.

True enough, but you miss the point. An attack on Social Security and Medicare by the ruling classes will elicit, at the very least, a very visceral and emotional response among not only those of us who are recipients, but also among those who are nearing the point where they will become recipients, such as my parents. While it is true that there will be a need for the rational and scientific in discussions of what to do now and in the immediate future, especially since the visceral and emotional (and moral) outrage will become an object of exploitation by all of the bourgeois and petty-bourgeois parties (including some self-described socialist and communist organizations), there will have to be an understanding of the relationship between that outrage and the necessity of overthrowing capitalist rule.

Anger is a gift: a Pandora's Box wrapped in the paper of heinous acts and tied with the ribbons of social discontent ... and there is no instruction manual included. We as communists need to be able to bring that anger to a higher level, from unconscious outrage to conscious activity. Intersecting that anger is crucial, but also dangerous, since it is ripe fruit for demagogues. And the worst part is that much of what we do in that intersection cannot be planned in advance; we will have to rely on the strength of principle and methodology to achieve the right balance in our activity.

[socialistjustin]

While the Repubs are an easily identifiable enemy, the dems aren't any better. They also believe in cutting social programs to reduce the deficit. Some might believe in preserving and strengthening the programs, but they are few and far between. At some point we should realize that Obama isn't just compromising when he makes these deals, but he actually believes in cutting social programs.

[Ingraham Effingham]

While the Repubs are an easily identifiable enemy, the dems aren't any better. They also believe in cutting social programs to reduce the deficit. Some might believe in preserving and strengthening the programs, but they are few and far between. At some point we should realize that Obama isn't just compromising when he makes these deals, but he actually believes in cutting social programs.

The obama admin maybe the worst kind of enemy: the kind with a smile up front and a dagger behind the back.

Better the enemy you know, right?

[DaringMehring]

Of course he was and is willing to sacrifice core social programs. He is the leading executive of the bourgeois state. To have illusions in him is the province of the CPUSA, not Marxists.

The whole fake debt ceiling drama is just a battering ram to break down the population's resistance to austerity.

As the comrades from The Spark put it:


Obama’s ‘Big Deal’ – a Big Load of Crap

President Obama and Congress are making big noise about the government’s debt ceiling – that is, the limit put on the total U.S. government borrowing from private sources. Republicans say they won’t raise the ceiling until spending is reduced, because the debt has become “catastrophic.” Obama says that if Congress doesn’t raise it by August 2, the government will not be able to borrow any more money and Social Security checks won’t go out. Both parties make the situation sound really dire.
In fact, voting to increase the debt ceiling is nothing new. Congress has voted to raise it 73 times since 1940 – including 16 times under Reagan, seven under George W. Bush, and three so far under Obama.
But this time, both parties are trying to use this vote as a bludgeon to ram through huge attacks on the population. The Republicans want across the board cuts on all domestic programs. Obama’s proposal, which he calls a “Grand Bargain” or a “Big Deal,” puts “everything on the table.” He proposes to cut Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security, and to cut aid to the states – which means even further cuts to social programs, public services and education at the state and local level.
What both parties propose is an attack – like the austerity plans European governments are pushing to attack their populations – even if U.S. politicians try to hide it behind all their blather about a budget crisis.

[Rusty Shackleford]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/tea-party-leader-john-boehner-has-to-go/

[tanklv]

You will get nowhere fast on this board trying to chide people for not applauding your one-sided harangue against Republicans, as if the Democrats are any better. Your post reveals you still think the problem with Obama and the Democraps is that they are bad negotiators or bad strategists. They're not. These austerity packages, slanted toward redistributing wealth upward through privatization, is a core principle of the democratic party. They are a bourgeois party, always have been, and will always will be. They are devoted to pursuing the interests of the bourgeoisie, though their approach and tone are sometimes different from the bad-cop brethren. There was a time when bourgeois interests coincided with a strong economic safety net buttressed by social welfare programs. Not any longer. The sooner you break free from viewing politics through the obscuring prism that cable news creates, the sooner actual politics will begin to make sense to you.

"Sorry" if it chaps your ass. I never said democrats were "better" - at least not today's democrats. I made sincere statement, and get garbage propaganda responses.

Yes I'm "new" here, and increasingly discouraged by the crap in the US that presents itself as alternative political discourse, when it's two sides of the same coin just bullshitting the rest of us. The "core principles" of the Democratic Party WAS for the WORKERS, the poor, and the voiceless, not the elite, as you try to claim.

They have not been "slanted toward redistributing wealth upward through privatization", and that has NEVER been "a core principle" of the democratic party - far from it. If you believe that, you don't know what the fuck you're spewing.

Political parties in the US are quite fluid over the long term. Don't forget, the Party of Lincoln, for the abolition of slavery, is now comprised of racists and bigots, while the party of slavery had morphed into the party of the downtrodden. We are witnessing the transformation again of the party structure. One or both of the parties will become like the Whigs, and cease to exist.

It has always been a "big tent" party, with everyone from liberals (it's a GOOD thing to be a liberal, BTW) to conservatives, but they had a platform that was once pretty good. Civil rights, equality, unionism, nationalized health CARE (not "insurance"), etc.

The problem is, the repukes have become a bat shit insane fundamentalist party, and the once "normal" republicans of old have drifted to the democratic party and have taken it over now. And this has been going on for many years now. Anybody remotely progressive or left leaning is outright ridiculed now.

Maybe soon we can have a real left party - many people like me are seeking out alternatives at long last. And if people like you continue to ridicule and denegrate sincere efforts to reach out to like minded individuals, then don't be surprised to continue to find yourselves on the fringes and left in your own self-righteousness - and ALONE -like you have been...

[A Marxist Historian]

"Sorry" if it chaps your ass. I never said democrats were "better" - at least not today's democrats. I made sincere statement, and get garbage propaganda responses.

Yes I'm "new" here, and increasingly discouraged by the crap in the US that presents itself as alternative political discourse, when it's two sides of the same coin just bullshitting the rest of us. The "core principles" of the Democratic Party WAS for the WORKERS, the poor, and the voiceless, not the elite, as you try to claim.

They have not been "slanted toward redistributing wealth upward through privatization", and that has NEVER been "a core principle" of the democratic party - far from it. If you believe that, you don't know what the fuck you're spewing.

Political parties in the US are quite fluid over the long term. Don't forget, the Party of Lincoln, for the abolition of slavery, is now comprised of racists and bigots, while the party of slavery had morphed into the party of the downtrodden. We are witnessing the transformation again of the party structure. One or both of the parties will become like the Whigs, and cease to exist.

It has always been a "big tent" party, with everyone from liberals (it's a GOOD thing to be a liberal, BTW) to conservatives, but they had a platform that was once pretty good. Civil rights, equality, unionism, nationalized health CARE (not "insurance"), etc.

The problem is, the repukes have become a bat shit insane fundamentalist party, and the once "normal" republicans of old have drifted to the democratic party and have taken it over now. And this has been going on for many years now. Anybody remotely progressive or left leaning is outright ridiculed now.

Maybe soon we can have a real left party - many people like me are seeking out alternatives at long last. And if people like you continue to ridicule and denegrate sincere efforts to reach out to like minded individuals, then don't be surprised to continue to find yourselves on the fringes and left in your own self-righteousness - and ALONE -like you have been...

That the Democrats were ever the party of the poor and downtrodden is just plain wrong. They never were, any more than they are now.

They swallowed the Populists in the 1890s and started using some populist rhetoric now and then, but they were still the party of white racism and US imperialism, as Woodrow Wilson proved when he finally knocked the Republicans out of the White House.

FDR? Capitalism was in big trouble in the 1930s, so FDR saved capitalism. As he himself said loud and long, this was no secret.

By forging an alliance with the labor leaders vs. the Republicans, he tied the labor movement to US corporate capitalism. It pretty much had been before, but FDR with the New Deal officialized this, and we've been suffering from that ever since. Just look at the Wisconsin disaster for the latest example.

What's more, it was exactly Roosevelt who made sure that most of the benefits of the New Deal were Whites Only. While his wife was making liberal speeches, FDR was cutting deals with Southern Dixiecrats. He wouldn't even support an anti-lynching law!

During and ever since WWII, the Democrats have been simply one of the twin parties of US imperialism, the one that makes lying promises to the poor people and never fulfills them, whereas the Republicans don't. Which is the only difference between them.

In fact, nowadays both parties are so utterly dependent on big business finance that they practically quote candidates on the stock market.

The ultimate way to find out what a political party is is to "follow the money," like they used to say during Watergate. Both the Democrats and the Republicans are financed by the ruling class in this country, and always have been.

The "beginning" of any progressive political activity in America is a *total* break with both the Democrats and Republicans. And not some "third party" like the Greens which is really just a pressure group on the fringe of the Democrats either.

-M.H.-

[Jose Gracchus]

The Democratic Party is just the historical party of white supremacism, including white nationalist class-collaboration with white workers. Its been in continuous decline since it abandoned those key planks and attempted to integrate the various social movements into its permanent popular front via identity politics. And since they have no where to go, having demobilized their constituents away from radical change, the Democrats have had nothing to stop them from becoming the somewhat multicolored party of imperialist and corporatocracy.

[Sasha]

view from an progressive liberal


Why Does Boehner Hate America? (http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2011/07/29/why-does-boehner-hate-america)

Posted by Goldy (http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/goldy/Author?oid=4904583) on Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 1:25 PM

Let's be honest, there's a reason why House Speaker John Boehner is finding it so difficult to secure enough votes within his own party to raise the debt ceiling, whatever the terms: a large chunk of congressional Republicans want the federal government to default.
I'm not being hyperbolic; that's just a fact. Many of the teabagger freshmen who gave Boehner his majority have come flat out and said it. They will not vote for a debt ceiling lift, no way, no how. Others would only do so only under the harshest, obviously unacceptable terms.
And I don't think they're being cynical. Most understand they could be provoking an economic catastrophe, but they feel they absolutely have no choice. This is the only way to tame the national debt, they believe, and shrink government towards the dystopian libertarian scope they are confident is they only path towards economic prosperity and freedom. Others truly believe that President Barack Obama is evil, and that if he's not defeated in 2012, our nation will surely slide into a socialism. Dramatically tanking the economy would virtually assure Obama's defeat, they believe, leaving conservative Republicans in control of all three branches of government. The end justifies the means, and all that.
As totally fucking crazy as they may be, at least these teabaggers are principled and patriotic, but Boehner... not so much. He's conservative all right, but he knows better. He knows exactly how irresponsible it would be to provoke a default. And yet he refuses to consider the one option that could quickly end this artificial crisis and allow the nation to move on to solving our real problems: leading the handful of non-crazy Republicans left in his caucus across the aisle to vote with the Democrats.
At the moment the Republicans hold a 240 to 193 advantage in the House. That means that if Nancy Pelosi can deliver her votes, it would take only Boehner and 23 other sane Republicans to vote with the Democrats to raise the debt ceiling. That is, assuming they love their country more than they love their own jobs. No doubt such a bold maneuver wouldn't cost Boehner the speakership. But sometimes, that's the kind of sacrifice a true patriot has to make.

[soyonstout]

a witticism that i thought expressed it nicely (heard from an Internationalist Perspectives cde) was, "the statement, 'the Democrats are the lesser of two evils' is only half true--they are evil"

Do other people think there may be a promising response to austerity in the US, a la Spain and Greece, albeit in a more dispersed form?

[rockstars must die]

I have a question everytime i see bohner or other republicans speaking why do they refer to "The goverment" as an abstract enity that thinks and acts all by itself. I thought are ellected officals were the goverment how can they not control it?

[Lucretia]

"Sorry" if it chaps your ass. I never said democrats were "better" - at least not today's democrats. I made sincere statement, and get garbage propaganda responses.

Right. You're still devoted to the meme that the democrats are fundamentally a decent party with core values consistent with supporting the working class. It's just that recently they've been led astray. This shows you know very little about American political history.


Yes I'm "new" here, and increasingly discouraged by the crap in the US that presents itself as alternative political discourse, when it's two sides of the same coin just bullshitting the rest of us. The "core principles" of the Democratic Party WAS for the WORKERS, the poor, and the voiceless, not the elite, as you try to claim.Uh huh. So for huge swaths of American history, when the democrats were in power, you think that the workers, the poor, and the voiceless were actually in power? After all, the Democratic party represented those constituencies, right? Certainly they didn't represent the economic elites.


They have not been "slanted toward redistributing wealth upward through privatization", and that has NEVER been "a core principle" of the democratic party - far from it. If you believe that, you don't know what the fuck you're spewing.Re-read what I said and you might learn something. I never said that their policies have always resulted in a bifurcation in the distribution of wealth. I said that the democrats have always been a bourgeois party, but that being a bourgeois party did not always means having to pursue policies that accelerated income upward. In fact, there was a brief period during the postwar boom when bourgeois politicians were completely on board with a strong social safety net. That's not the case anymore. Guess why. This is the problem with liberals, and why liberalism isn't okay. It fails utterly and completely to explain basic issues like why your beloved democratic party is working at cross-purposes with the constituencies they claim to represent. The most it can do is try to peg everything on "the repukes." Yes, the Republicans are to blame for everything. :rolleyes:


It has always been a "big tent" party, with everyone from liberals (it's a GOOD thing to be a liberal, BTW)It's good to be a liberal, eh? Admins, why is this poster not resticted? We have to deal with stupid shit like this virtually everywhere else in our daily lives and on the Internet. We try to have one slice of the Internet devoted to providing a forum for revolutionary leftists, and we have to put up with idiotic liberal paeans to the democratic party? Don't think so.