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RED DAVE
23rd July 2011, 00:35
Le Bourgeois s'amuse.


A lose-lose political proposition on the debt ceiling debate

By Chris Cillizza (http://www.washingtonpost.com/chris-cillizza/2011/02/24/AB7OmvI_page.html)
President Barack Obama makes a statement in the Brady Briefing Room at the White House in Washington, Friday, July 22, 2011 on the break down of debt ceiling talks. (AP Photo/Manuel Balce Ceneta)

The death of a grand bargain on raising the debt ceiling (http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/senate-rejects-conservative-budget-proposal-as-obama-boehner-reach-for-grand-bargain/2011/07/22/gIQAzskYTI_story.html?hpid=z1)— announced moments ago by President Obama — not only heightens the policy stakes as the default deadline rapidly approaches but creates the very real possibility that the issue will be a major political loser for everyone involved.

“We have now run out of time,” Obama said in a hastily called public event Friday evening in which he was barely able to contain his anger at the inability of the two sides to cut a deal.

He said he planned to bring the Congressional leaders of both parties to the White House on Saturday at 11 a.m. to figure out whether there was a way forward to avoid default.

While sources in Congress suggested that a smaller bore deal was likely since no one wanted to risk the political and financial consequences of default, the process of negotiating a debt ceiling increase has been so unpredictable that predicting the future outcome is a dangerous game.

What’s less difficult to predict is that the blame game that will dominate the news over the next 48-72 hours — and likely beyond that — will further sour people on the federal government and the politicians who operate within it.
And that’s very bad news for both parties.

There is already widespread discontent with how Washington works. In a Washington Post.\/ABC News poll (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/polls/postabcpoll_071711.html) released earlier this week, 80 percent — yes, 80! — of people said they were either angry or dissatisfied with the way the Washington works. That was the highest angry/dissatisfied number since 1992 in Post/ABC polling.

That same poll showed that 63 percent of registered voters said they preferred to look for “someone else” other than their current incumbent when they vote for Congress in 2012 — the highest that number has ever been in Post/ABC polling.

So, even before the debt deal collapsed, the level of discontent with the government broadly and the performance of Congress specifically was at historic lows. And the nastiness that will fill peoples’ television screens over the next days — and perhaps even after a smaller-sized deal is cut — will only add to that disgust with Washington and everyone who works there.
That sentiment virtually ensures that neither Obama nor Congressional Republicans will emerge politically bolstered from this protracted fight over the country’s budget priorities.

For Obama, the lack of a big deal undermines his political brand which is directly tied to the idea that he can make government work for people again.
Obama is at his best when he is big, when he can point to major policy victories that back up his soaring rhetoric. Angry press conferences — like the one he just held — may enliven the Democratic base but do little to help him with moderate and independents voters who are regarded by both sides as critical to a 2012 victory.

For Republicans, their victories in 2010 were conditional — at best. Party strategists admitted in the wake of those wins that the public remained skeptical about their ability to responsibly play a role in governance and that the work of the next two years was to prove they were ready to lead.

With Obama seemingly committed to using the bully pulpit afforded him by the presidency to castigate Republicans as intransigent and in the pocket of the tea party, GOP congressional leaders now have a tall task to prove to the public that putting the kybosh on a deal was actually the responsible thing to do.

It’s possible that the eventual deal — if there is one — will change public perception and convince people that Washington does actually work.

But, it’s not the likeliest scenario — not by a long shot. And, the nastier the fight gets in Washington, the more likely voters, already mad as hell, decide not to take it anymore. That spells trouble for any and every elected official in both partiesRED DAVE

tanklv
23rd July 2011, 01:33
One thing I know that will happen - NOTHING.

Not a goddamn thing.

The Amerikkkan Sheeple still have their Cable, football starts in another month or so, and almost 2/3 don't even pay attention at all - ever.

There is no true "left" - just slightly differing versions of the same right parties - one that is true conservative right, and the other that is BAT SHIT INSANE FASCIST RELIGIOUS WACKO right wing.

But - hey - they're all "equally" "crazy" - so let's split the differenct down the middle to the new - ever rightward moving - imaginary "center" - because - god damn it - it's "Amerikkkan Exceptionalism" rah rah USA USA don't cha know!!!

Amerikkka will have it's own unique version - but - we're in the disfunctional Weimar Republic phase of this century - and Germany is the good ol' USA.

At least, for those academics who have always wondered - we get to see what would have happened if Hoover and the 1920's Republicans got their way instead of FDR.

I honestly don't see the average Amerikkkan (how egocentric is that adjective, BTW) going the street demonstration route like Egypt et all - they are far to fat (literally) and lazy...

So instead we all get to see Amerikkka's version of the NAZI party (Tea anyone) play out to full fruition.

I hope that the rest of the world will be there to save our asses/stop us when the time comes. Please don't let us "progress" that far...

Red_Struggle
23rd July 2011, 01:51
One thing I know that will happen - NOTHING.

Not a goddamn thing.

The Amerikkkan Sheeple still have their Cable, football starts in another month or so, and almost 2/3 don't even pay attention at all - ever.

There is no true "left" - just slightly differing versions of the same right parties - one that is true conservative right, and the other that is BAT SHIT INSANE FASCIST RELIGIOUS WACKO right wing.

But - hey - they're all "equally" "crazy" - so let's split the differenct down the middle to the new - ever rightward moving - imaginary "center" - because - god damn it - it's "Amerikkkan Exceptionalism" rah rah USA USA don't cha know!!!

Amerikkka will have it's own unique version - but - we're in the disfunctional Weimar Republic phase of this century - and Germany is the good ol' USA.

At least, for those academics who have always wondered - we get to see what would have happened if Hoover and the 1920's Republicans got their way instead of FDR.

I honestly don't see the average Amerikkkan (how egocentric is that adjective, BTW) going the street demonstration route like Egypt et all - they are far to fat (literally) and lazy...

So instead we all get to see Amerikkka's version of the NAZI party (Tea anyone) play out to full fruition.

I hope that the rest of the world will be there to save our asses/stop us when the time comes. Please don't let us "progress" that far...

Third Worldism, huh?

tanklv
23rd July 2011, 02:00
I think (do I really need "IMO" - everything I post is "my honest opinion") that the US really needs to crash and burn - let it all collapse - only then will anything POSITIVE begin to be done.

It's like a relative constantly making excuses for and keep rescueing an alcoholic loved one from their latest drunk binge - they have to truely reach bottom before any chance of real recovery can begin...

RED DAVE
23rd July 2011, 15:34
I think (do I really need "IMO" - everything I post is "my honest opinion") that the US really needs to crash and burn - let it all collapse - only then will anything POSITIVE begin to be done.Next time you're doing some labor organizing, be sure to use this line.


It's like a relative constantly making excuses for and keep rescueing an alcoholic loved one from their latest drunk binge - they have to truely reach bottom before any chance of real recovery can begin...I admitted I was powerless over capitalism – that my life had become unmanageable.

Sounds good to me.

RED DAVE

ckaihatsu
24th July 2011, 00:42
I admitted I was powerless over capitalism – that my life had become unmanageable.


1. I admitted I was powerless over capitalism – that my life had become unmanageable.

2. I came to believe that a power greater than capitalism could restore me to sanity.

3. I made a decision to turn the economy over to the care of the working class as I understand it.

4. I made a searching and fearless moral inventory of capitalism.

5. I admitted to co-workers, to labor militants, and to another anti-capitalist the exact nature of capitalism's wrongs.

6. I am entirely ready to have the working class remove all these defects of capitalism's character.

7. I humbly asked the working class to remove us from capitalism's shortcomings.

8. I made a list of all persons capitalism had harmed, and became willing for the ruling class to make amends to them all.

9. I made demands for direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

10. I continued to take an inventory and when capitalism was wrong I promptly admitted it.

11. I sought through labor actions to improve my conscious contact with the working class as I understand it, fighting only for knowledge of class struggle and the power to carry that out.

12. Having had a proletarian awakening as the result of these steps, I have tried to carry this message to other workers, and to practice these principles in all of my affairs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve-step_program#The_Twelve_Steps

¿Que?
24th July 2011, 00:59
The rallying cry for Republican has been that Obama never presented forward his own plan. As disingenuous as that is, considering that first of all any plan put forward by Obama would have been disavowed by any self-interested Republican, Obama did put forward a pathetic "compromise" involving roughly a 1 to 3 proportion of tax increases (for the wealthy one would presume, but you never know...) to social welfare cuts. Needless to say, there is hardly any reason why the issue of revenues and cuts has anything to do with increasing the debt ceiling, which, as I understand from watching TYT, is targeted towards towards previous spending (under Bush Jr.).

In any case, this really has me worried a little. Someone told me we could just issue more bonds, which is essentially doing the same thing as raising the debt ceiling, and so there's really no major cause to think that we would actually default if the deadline passes. Still, tho, who really knows.

ckaihatsu
24th July 2011, 01:28
The rallying cry for Republican has been that Obama never presented forward his own plan. As disingenuous as that is, considering that first of all any plan put forward by Obama would have been disavowed by any self-interested Republican, Obama did put forward a pathetic "compromise" involving roughly a 1 to 3 proportion of tax increases (for the wealthy one would presume, but you never know...) to social welfare cuts. Needless to say, there is hardly any reason why the issue of revenues and cuts has anything to do with increasing the debt ceiling, which, as I understand from watching TYT, is targeted towards towards previous spending (under Bush Jr.).

In any case, this really has me worried a little. Someone told me we could just issue more bonds, which is essentially doing the same thing as raising the debt ceiling, and so there's really no major cause to think that we would actually default if the deadline passes. Still, tho, who really knows.


So who's this "we" you're talking about, paleface...?


= D


Incidentally, from a class perspective, seeing non-staged infighting within the ruling class is a *good* thing. (The various *branches of government* don't usually resort to pointing their fingers at each other -- hence another genuine meltdown and constitutional crisis....) Indications seem to be that public opinion is soundly against continuing the tax cuts for the rich.


The Deficit Battle

http://www.socialistproject.ca/bullet/527.php

¿Que?
24th July 2011, 01:35
So who's this "we" you're talking about, paleface...?

Yeah, poorly phrased to be sure. I meant, the US government.

ckaihatsu
24th July 2011, 01:52
Yeah, poorly phrased to be sure. I meant, the US government.


Okay, your act of voluntary self-criticism here is exemplary and will shine as a beacon for others. Nonetheless you're going to have to read _The Communist Manifesto_ twice and sing 'The Internationale' ten times.


= )


x D


(Sorry.)

Rusty Shackleford
24th July 2011, 02:35
so it looks like pollies have until 4pm Eastern time to get something going before Asian markets open. thats 1 PM tomorrow for us west coasties.

Aspiring Humanist
24th July 2011, 02:38
I haven't been keeping up to date with the debt ceiling issue. I know that there are gonna be some pretty heavy austerity cuts, regardless of whos deal passes, but when is this going to happen? August 2nd right?
Someone update me please