russia sees no gaddafi role in shaping libya's future

[bcbm]

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2011-07/22/c_131003348.htm

[scarletghoul]

Who cares what the russian government thinks, ultimately its the direct fighting on the ground in libya that will determine whether gaddafi or whoever else plays a role in shaping the countrys future

[Os Cangaceiros]

what the Russians think is important, as they and China are responsible for being the geopolitical thorn in the USA's side, everywhere from Sudan to Syria to Iran.

Also, NATO could crush the Libyan military in a day if it really wanted to.

[Jose Gracchus]

Who cares what the russian government thinks, ultimately its the direct fighting on the ground in libya that will determine whether gaddafi or whoever else plays a role in shaping the countrys future

This for me encapsulates why most "anti-imperialists" live in a dream world. They think that marginal nation-states on the edge of a capitalist society triumph politically, militarily, or economically via sheer acts of will.

No modern nation-state can survive isolated from the world market and world geopolitical system. In the case of Libya, that will almost certainly mean clientage to one or another imperialist faction. At least I could understand what clowns spouting this thought in the 1970s or something, when they thought there really were major "socialist" powers which could have given 'anti-imperialist' states some options. Today they have to settle for deluding that Venezuela, Belarus, and Zimbabwe needling the Anglo-American imperialist camp while clinging off the side of the BRICS bloc might mean some tangible progress toward revolution, and thus drop all the revolution and focus purely on moralistic welfarist question begging.

[scarletghoul]

This for me encapsulates why most "anti-imperialists" live in a dream world. They think that marginal nation-states on the edge of a capitalist society triumph politically, militarily, or economically via sheer acts of will.

No modern nation-state can survive isolated from the world market and world geopolitical system. In the case of Libya, that will almost certainly mean clientage to one or another imperialist faction. At least I could understand what clowns spouting this thought in the 1970s or something, when they thought there really were major "socialist" powers which could given 'anti-imperialist' states some options. Today they have to settle for deluding that Venezuela, Belarus, and Zimbabwe needling the Anglo-American imperialist camp while clinging off the side of the BRICS bloc might mean some tangible progress toward revolution, and thus drop all the revolution and focus purely on moralistic welfarist question begging.
youre missing my point, which is that the question of who will govern libya is being decided immediately by the military situation on the ground. the views of the various imperial powers are interesting but in terms of determining the role of gaddafi etc they are of secondary importance

its not like the soldiers on the front line are gonna think "shit, we lost the moral support of the kremlin, whats the point" and put down their weapons, is it

[Jose Gracchus]

No, but whether the respective ruling classes think they have a future of material comfort and good relations and economic and military support ahead for them, or whether they do not, has an immense impact on their will to fight. Gaddhafi, and more importantly, his underlings, are banking that there will be someone for them to sort of get by with without being a total pariah state.

[scarletghoul]

And do you really think any emerging power would be stupid enough to let all that oil just sit there unsold for the sake of principles..

[Jose Gracchus]

If Gaddhafi's Tripolitana rump state is so devastated and blockaded that the BRICS think they had have a better cut simply showing up to the UN vulture committee that will oversee a settlement with Benghazi, then they will do that. Russia's throwing Gaddhafi to the wind might be just the start of something like that.

How long do you think North Vietnam would ever have lasted without Soviet support?

[Comrade Jandar]

Funny thing is client states of China usually are treated better then the clients states of the US. China engages in more qu

[Geiseric]

Whether or not their treated "better" doesn't defeat the point that they're still subject to the same kind of imperialism as other 3rd world countries by a state who claims to be socialist.

[Weezer]

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lgslkeScwS1qak6iwo1_500.jpg