Some Misconceoptions

[vox]

Damn, I leave for a few days and some right-wing garbage troll takes over. How very sad.

I just want to clarify a few things. I don't actually call myself a communist, though I'm not opposed to the term. I call myself a Marxist.

As I recall, and I may be wrong, Marx and Engels used the term communist to separate themselves from the Utopian Socialists of the age. See, Marxism isn't about Utopia. I don't believe that we can have a perfect society. I think we can have a better one.

Indeed, Marx was anti-utopian. Check out The German Ideology (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1845/german-ideology/index.htm) for more on that, for I fear that a lot of people, Left and wrong, don't know enough about Materialism.

I've noticed one similarity between Marx and hardcore capitalist drek, however, and that's in the desire to predict the future. Marx, as brilliant as he was, fell prey to that. Right-wing filth, as vain as they are, can't seem to help it!!!

Now, if you've something to say, I'll respond. I doubt, however, that you have anything to say. Just another garden-variety reactionary troll, hoping to validate himself by the attention of those whom he presumes to hate.

How pathetic.

vox

[Ernestito]

I loved your post....
I have to agree with you...

[vox]

Hey, thanks.

It's always nice to know that someone is reading this and has an opinion.

vox

[DaNatural]

i agree as well vox well put my friend, i stated before that i wasnt a marxist i was sorta in between a few things but id have to saythat i am, marx believed in communism in the purest sense, how it is intented to be. meaning people are equal and noone controls our destiny but us, however now people seem to have twisted it and think communism is staln or mao, or hell even fidel thats all bullshit, theres no need to move away from communism because it hasnt changed, people have tried to modify it and disaster has happened but if u look at it in the purest form u will see that it is the answer. so i guess ill have to im a marxist or communist to death. peace
forgive me for being ignorant but i dont see the difference between a marxist and a communist. if someone can explain differences please correct me. thanks

(Edited by DaNatural at 12:34 pm on Oct. 25, 2001)

[Anonymous]

thanks for the link vox, interesting reading...

[Fantomas]

Right Wing garbage------very interesting; as opposed, I guess, to Left Wing garbage.

[Chief Rebel Angel]

i am very leaning towards socialism and the ideologies of socialism that i read elsewhere... so i try to tell the ppl i know (who care) about it... i have read here a bunch of times that communism (or socialism) will only work (or will work better) in a rich country, a capitalist country... and i was sorta convinced by the arguement for that... so i was having a conversation with a friend that led to me saying that point... he then told me "if a system is devoted to make the world a better place, then shouldnt it be workable anywhere?"... now that confused me... and i thought of two possibilities: either i misunderstood the point that i presented, or their's a flaw within the socialist system... kindly clearify that for me if u could, since both i and that friend of mine would benifit from that...

(Edited by Chief Rebel Angel at 3:21 am on Oct. 26, 2001)

[Chancho]

Quote: from Fantomas on 10:47 pm on Oct. 25, 2001
Right Wing garbage------very interesting; as opposed, I guess, to Left Wing garbage.


Fantomas... I'm humbled by your intellectual prowess.

[DaNatural]

rebel i will attempt to clarify the question you were asking, I personally think communism can work in any country rich or poor. The reason it would work more in a rich country is because in a country that is extremely rich you usually have people who are extremely poor. 5% of the population controls 95% of the wealth. Obviously this will lead to conflct so i think that is why it is thought that communism will work in a rich country. However if we notice communism or left wing parties usually gain more control in severly poor countries. But this is also the result of a large amount of wealth in the hands of few. Also another reason it is beleived to work and last in a rich country is because a country that is rich has seen what wealth can do, where as a poor country has no clue and might be tempted by riches. Thats my take on it, I hope I helped out comrade. P.E.A.C.E.
Power Equality Allah Cees Everything

[Chief Rebel Angel]

thanx DaNatural.. r u Muslim?

[DaNatural]

rebel no im not muslim, although i was at one point, my girlfriend is muslim, i respect islam alot and will probably raise my kids on it, out of all the religions i beleive it is the most intersting and also the one that makes most sense.however i dont feel that atleast in this point of my life i need religion to tell me if im good or bad. peace

[Chief Rebel Angel]

peace :)

(ps u shouldnt need religion to tell u whether u r good or bad, u should know that by urself)

[The Invisible Hand]

Hey-

I wont have anyone bashing my boy Sir/St Thomas More. I understand that there are modern popular and political terms that have grown out of the original concept of "Utopia". However, anyone who considers themselves to be a utopian, socialist or otherwise probably understands the word utopia better than people here do, and probably are/were making a deeper commentary than you are giving credit for.

Even operating within the narrow ideological confines of this discussion's concept of Utopia, you should understand that the text itself never claimed that the government or society described was perfect. In fact, towards the end of the book, there was a prayer asking for further insight and revelation which stated that Utopians were always looking for a better way. Was Marx a Utopian? Unfortunately not. While insightful, he was unable to protect his legacy from people who could never move past the 19th century. 1848 came, 1848 went. What progress has there been? Who has risen to do justice to the true depth of vision Marx began? Who has a misconceived notion of how to spell misconceptions?

Forgive me for being coarse, but I am beginning to lose patience with the stereotypical and shallow threads of conversation on this list. I had really hoped to find someone capable of engaging me, of getting the fires of discussion burning, and I haven't seen a topic with any real depth as of yet.

[DaNatural]

i guess i worded that wrong rebel, what i meant to say is that i feel that as long as i lead a morally virtuous life if there is a heaven i should be going. i dont feel the need to pray to God i think that if i lead a good life and am fair and good to people im doing exactly what god would want from me. also i have a problem with religion because it tends to divide as we can see in our current situation. if people were educated it wouldnt be a problem but we unfortunately have people calling Muslim's "A-rabs" that is not religions fault that is has divided it is the lack of education. so for various reasons i stay away. Peace.

[Chief Rebel Angel]

i hate to "preach", but i hope u wont mind this, DaNatural.. leading a morally vertuoes life is very important indeed... but that is ur duty towards ur society, ur fellow human beings... if u only do that, then its like u only did half of the job, because u ignored ur duty towards God... praying is a form of showing gratitude to God... by not praying, u r being ungreatful..

yes, and uneducated ppl call all Leftists "communists", and all Jews "Zionists", and the list goes on and on... but really, so what? u do what u gotta do...