What subculture is acceptable...

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

... to some of revleft's anti-hipster people? If being a 'hipster' is all middle class and what-not, then what is the purest, most proletarian social tribe for the youth to subscribe to?

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/5637/workingclasspeople300x2.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/823/workingclasspeople300x2.jpg/)

Don't worry, I found an appropriate dress code.

[bcbm]

"communist" "anarchist"

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

That's not a subculture bruh

[Johnny Kerosene]

Anarcho-Punk then. Or like a young stalinists society. Kind of like the young republicans club, or the future businessmen of america club in High Schools, but with Stalinists.

[Sasha]

subcultures are bourgois

[bcbm]

That's not a subculture bruh

yeh it is

[Dogs On Acid]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7c/Peasants_3French_Best.jpg

[Il Medico]

Punks of course!

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Stop obsessing about 'sub-culture' and concentrate on just being, 'bruh'.

Class isn't determined by how you act, it's determined by your relationship to the MoP. C'mon.:rolleyes:

[Obs]

My boss is a hipster.

As if I needed more reasons to hate him.

[Angry Young Man]

If being a 'hipster' is all middle class and what-not, then what is the purest, most proletarian social tribe for the youth to subscribe to?

Chav.

[Angry Young Man]

I just can't believe I'm the first person to say that.

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

Stop obsessing about 'sub-culture' and concentrate on just being, 'bruh'.

Class isn't determined by how you act, it's determined by your relationship to the MoP. C'mon.:rolleyes:

I know, bruh. Some folks on this forum said hipsterism has class characteristics/interests (paraphrase), so this is a little bit of satire at those who think that subcultures have class alignments in and of themselves.

[Obs]

I know, bruh. Some folks on this forum said hipsterism has class characteristics/interests (paraphrase), so this is a little bit of satire at those who think that subcultures have class alignments in and of themselves.
Good luck finding a proletarian yuppie.

[The Douche]

subcultures are bourgois

**Culture is bourgeois.

[Manic Impressive]

I know, bruh. Some folks on this forum said hipsterism has class characteristics/interests (paraphrase), so this is a little bit of satire at those who think that subcultures have class alignments in and of themselves.
What about yuppies then? Did they not have a class characteristic?

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

Yuppies were a clearly defined group though, that were defined largely by their relationship to the means of production. Try and define other subcultures using class characteristics and you will likely fail - punks, hipsters, emos, hardcore kids, skinheads and even chavs span across the class spectrum. Yuppies are a special case.

[The Douche]

Yuppie is difficult to view as a subculture though, since it stand for "young urban professional". One can easily be a young urban professional without appearing to be a yuppie.

Preppy on the other hand (in the sense of the 60s-80s interpretation of it) is a clearly defined subculture with class characteristics.

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

I agree, cmoney. I was actually gonna use preppie as an example but forgot.

[Manic Impressive]

Yuppies were a clearly defined group though, that were defined largely by their relationship to the means of production. Try and define other subcultures using class characteristics and you will likely fail - punks, hipsters, emos, hardcore kids, skinheads and even chavs span across the class spectrum. Yuppies are a special case.
I think you're misunderstanding class characteristic, it's not how many members of a class are also members of a sub culture. The origins of all of the sub cultures you mentioned are proletarian except perhaps hipsters and emo's (which I don't fully understand). They are a reaction to the social conditions met by the working class which is what gives them their class characteristic.

Take for instance the skinheads which came about through the immigration of people from the west indies and the fusion of their culture with white working class youths due to them being of the same class and thus facing similar conditions.

On emo's and goths that culture stemmed as far as I know through the progression of punk. With bands like Joy division and the cure being fore runners in that field. It's still a proletarian reaction but formulated in a different way.

[Angry Young Man]

Being class-conscious should make you reject subcultures as divisive.

But since there aren't really any emos anymore, the only predominant working-class youth subculture is chav. Opposite this is rahs, the bourgeois youth subculture

[The Douche]

Being class-conscious should make you reject subcultures as divisive.

But since there aren't really any emos anymore, the only predominant working-class youth subculture is chav. Opposite this is rahs, the bourgeois youth subculture

subculture has nothing to do with class consciousness, especially when certain subcultures are able to make a transition into counter-culture.

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

I agree that some subcultures are born out of economic conditions, but that is not to say that their influence and characteristics don't span across the class spectrum. Using subcultures as an indicator for the class of an individual or group of individuals is as divisive as doing the same with skin colour, or hair colour, or eye colour, therefore leftists should have no business doing such a thing. That's my point when I jokingly ask what is the most proletarian subculture, as the question is as pathetic as the notion that you can identify a person's class background by looking at their fashion sense and musical taste.

[L.A.P.]

I don't know, I hated hipster before I was a communist. The only thing I cared about at that time was music and despised, I mean absolutely despised hipsters for their perspectives on music.

[brigadista]

I don't know, I hated hipster before I was a communist. The only thing I cared about at that time was music and despised, I mean absolutely despised hipsters for their perspectives on music.

what is hipster music?

[Quail]

what is hipster music?
Obscure bands. You wouldn't have heard of them.

[Angry Young Man]

^+1

[synthesis]

Hipsters were cool before they got all mainstream

[brigadista]

Obscure bands. You wouldn't have heard of them.

how do you know?
lol

[Dogs On Acid]

how do you know?
lol

He's a hipster, whatdoyouknow?

[tm315]

what is hipster music?
If you go by the generalization, Indie.

[Gustav HK]

I don't know, I hated hipster before I was a communist.

Roflhoxha.

Was that on purpose?

[Angry Young Man]

Hipsters were cool before they got all mainstream

Lol. I was in the hair dressers the other day and they had some dodgy pop music channel on the telly. One of the videos was someone in a trilby and red skinnies.

He's actually well fit.

[bcbm]

man hipster critique is stuck in like 05/06

[L.A.P.]

Roflhoxha.

Was that on purpose?

I don't quite understand.:confused:

[Angry Young Man]

Hipsters are stuck in 1976. There was the whole thing in the adbusters article about hipsters bathing in the hallmarks of the working class, so do you think in 30 years time their kids'll be all in sports gear with patterns shaved into their head?

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

Hipsters are stuck in 1976. There was the whole thing in the adbusters article about hipsters bathing in the hallmarks of the working class, so do you think in 30 years time their kids'll be all in sports gear with patterns shaved into their head?

Probably. I've thought that before. Thinking about chavs, they don't really exist now as they did. The people I knew who were chavs (I guess I was one at a point) adopted the football casual look, wearing stone island and stuff. Then they became indie, and those styles were pretty much borrowed from the 80s and early 90s. Now they look kinda like jocks, with wedge hair cuts and UCLA hoodies, but they're still 'chavs' as in they're still working class kids.

I might not be completely accurate, but the point is that fashion trends are recycled, so old fashions 'come back'. A lot of what is called 'hipster fashion' in the stereotypical sense appears to me to be similar to what some people were wearing in the 60s/early 70s.

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

But yeah, I meant to pretty much say that I reckon the 'chav' look will come back in 20 years or so, Chavs and emos are almost comparable to mods and rockers in many ways. Mods got so much shit in their day, much like chavs, but it became cool a few decades later. Fashions are recycled.

[Angry Young Man]

I'm in social housing where most of the people are 16-18, and they are mainly chavs in style - trackies, zip-up hoodies, broad trainers and rosary beads for whatever reason.

But what I should say is no subculture's acceptable to me, but the predominant one for working-class kids is chav, for want of a better word. I just wonder what'd happen to their aesthetic if they became class-conscious on a bigger scale. If I had anything to do with it, braces, odd-coloured sneakers and cheap jewellery would be the hallmarks of self-aware working-class youths, and they'd all worship Suzanne Vega.

[bcbm]

Hipsters are stuck in 1976.

hipster fashions ranges from the 1960s

http://pics.streetpeeper.com/sites/default/files/image_cache/68fd81a05ca9a994a4507a38736b16ec_w470.jpg

to the 1990s

http://pics.streetpeeper.com/sites/default/files/image_cache/eb23c52454bf311110f81cce34439c5d_w470.jpg

thats the point its a totally amorphous label, people who try to pigeonhole it into like "oh they listen to indie and wear blah blah" don't get it. in my medium sized city there are grungy hipsters who dress like punks and listen to r&b and rap who hang out with well dressed mod looking kids listening to disco and shoegaze who hang out with skinheads into dubstep...


There was the whole thing in the adbusters article about hipsters bathing in the hallmarks of the working class, so do you think in 30 years time their kids'll be all in sports gear with patterns shaved into their head?

already exists...

[Susurrus]

I can't wait for the hipsters to stumble upon the world of old soviet paraphernalia.

Also, yippies/woodstock nation.

[bcbm]

hipsters have been way ahead of you on both accounts...

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

bcbm understands. My brother dresses like he's fresh out of the 90s ( he looks like J Mascis) and he's called a hipster. I vary between looking like a 70s cop or a Jarvis Cocker wannabe and I'm called a hipster too.

There's no defining set of conventions apart from perhaps not fitting into other stereotyped social tribes, usually with intention.

[Manic Impressive]

But yeah, I meant to pretty much say that I reckon the 'chav' look will come back in 20 years or so, Chavs and emos are almost comparable to mods and rockers in many ways. Mods got so much shit in their day, much like chavs, but it became cool a few decades later. Fashions are recycled.
It has to go before it comes back, a lot of people round my way still dress like that. I don't see too many kids with their socks pulled up over their tracksuit bottoms any more and considerably less gold than there used to be. I used to have a gold ring on every finger sovereigns, belt buckles and a playboy ring that girls used to wear around their neck on a chain. And the baseball cap that stuck up at a 45 degree angle, with a french crop haircut you know 4 on the top 2 on the side with a fringe that I used to gel up. Ben sherman shirts and addidas trousers, I was all about the addidas. Yeah that's when chavs were chavs :lol:

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

Haha yeah I had the whole chav phase, it was the dominant tribe in secondary school and I just fell into it. Embarrassing on reflection, but then teenagers are teenagers aren't they? I still know one or two old friends in their twenties who still hang about in tracksuits and hats, listening to drum n bass, drinking on the streets and many of them are in and out of prison. I live in the birthplace of the term 'chav' though, funnily enough (that's enough to give away my location :p).

[Quail]

Trackies tucked into socks is something that should stay dead.

I was a bit of a goth in secondary school. Kind of funny to look back on I guess. Everyone dresses like an idiot as a teenager though. :lol:

[Gustav HK]

I don't quite understand.:confused:

It is just that "I hated hipster before I was a communist", sounds a bit like the stereotypical hipster phrase "I liked "something" before it was cool"

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

Trackies tucked into socks is something that should stay dead.

I was a bit of a goth in secondary school. Kind of funny to look back on I guess. Everyone dresses like an idiot as a teenager though. :lol:

I had to do it the other day when I was on my bike because the end of my jeans kept nearly getting stuck in the chain :blushing:. At least it wasn't trackies though lol

[Lacrimi de Chiciură]

http://www.glogster.com/media/3/8/78/48/8784888.jpg

also this:

http://www.chuntaritos.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/20100809_08.jpg

[Angry Young Man]

Goonies reunion?

[Rusty Shackleford]

really the only 'subculture' i haded was the 'bros'

this is more of a high school thing.


basically, all the douchey, rich, sexist, fit dudes all being massive douchebags.

driving escalades and shit when they are 17.

[Lacrimi de Chiciură]

really the only 'subculture' i haded was the 'bros'

this is more of a high school thing.


basically, all the douchey, rich, sexist, fit dudes all being massive douchebags.

driving escalades and shit when they are 17.

lol, I never heard of 'Bros' until I went to college.

From my experience the essential Bro rituals are the things you mentioned, but also: Baseball, playing Halo, and drinking Natty Ice.

[Rusty Shackleford]

lol, I never heard of 'Bros' until I went to college.

From my experience the essential Bro rituals are the things you mentioned, but also: Baseball, playing Halo, and drinking Natty Ice.
beer pong, fraternities, popped collars.


seriously, being 'bro' has more class connotations than hipsterism.

[Angry Young Man]

Are those like American rah boys?

[Rusty Shackleford]

Are those like American rah boys?
rah?

[Jimmie Higgins]

I vary between looking like a 70s cop or a Jarvis Cocker wannabe. Lol awesome! Also looking like you're from the 1970s or looking brit-pop are both 1990s-retro. Yay, the clothes I had in high school are back in.

I have a friend who recently moved back to his parents house and he found all his old clothes and he wears cross-colors and a giant X Malcolm shirt with a matching hat... people totally think he's wearing it after finding it in a thrift store, hilarious. Kids in East Oakland have started shaving designs into their hair too - it was like black US subculture being reinterpreted by Latino kids and then adopted by black kids again:lol:. Young people in Oakland have really nice style and a lot of organic youth culture here, it's the part of living in this town that I love.

Anywya, I think all subculture is fine and can be fun, the only political problem with subcultures I have are when people think that the sub or counter-culture can be an alternative to the system. It may even work for brief times but from Jazz to Hippie to Hip-Hop, all counter-cultures tend to get re-appropriated back into the system rather than fundamentally changing it. So then the subculture morphs again - and I think hipsterism as a tendancy (faddishness and some cultural snobbery and rejection of anything that seems to be gaining wider acceptance) is an expression of frustration with capitalism's cultural hegemony... even if hipsters themselves can not see beyond the system. It's sort of a knee-jerk rejection of anything that could possibly be corporate, but it's also kind of shallow ultimately. As much as "slacker" culture or "grunge" was "irionic" it was at least much more direct in hating corporate mainstream culture - it was more of a "fuck you" to fabricated culture whereas hipsterism takes the same basis but says, "oh I sooooo LOVE this stupid hair-metal band".

I prefer slacksterim to hipsterism as far as aesthetics go, but it probably has more to do with formulating my music and cultural tastes when underground rock and early gangster rap were first gaining a wider audience.

[Angry Young Man]

rah?

Posh boys in Ralph Lauren.

[synthesis]

There are plenty of working-class bros. I'm always wary of people who say things like "those fucking middle-class [subculture]" - it generally says more about the speaker and their life experience than it does about the subculture.

[Angry Young Man]

Are there a lot of working-class boys in pink ralph lauren polo shirts?

Or does their income not allow such vanity?

[Delenda Carthago]

Subcultures are the best way to downgrade your conscioussness. Fuck em all.

[Obs]

Posh boys in Ralph Lauren.
Okay, dude, this is a bro:

Imagine a man in his twenties in either a brightly coloured polo shirt with the collar popped or a very large, very loose t-shirt and baggy shorts. If he's wearing shades, they're probably shutter shades. He's also wearing a baseball cap, but even if it would protect his eyes from the sun, he refuses to wear it correctly. In his hand is a bottle of the worst expensive beer available in your area. He notices you looking for a second, and because he's really aware how stupid he looks, but too proud to change styles, he will approach you with such respect for your personal space that you begin to wonder if he's an untreated autistic. "You got a problem, man?" he bleats in a pubescent voice that belies his age, making sure to extend the "o" sound as if he only has a vague idea of how to stress a word in speech. Within seconds, his identical friends surround you and repeat the same phrase, and when you don't answer, they grow confused and, after poorly insulting you a few times, scatter and are never heard from again.

You're welcome.

[ZeroNowhere]

It is just that "I hated hipster before I was a communist", sounds a bit like the stereotypical hipster phrase "I liked "something" before it was cool"
No, it's like saying that you hated something before it became cool.

[Rss]

Gopniks, nerds and metalheads are all acceptable, but no fucking vampires.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Okay, dude, this is a bro:

Imagine a man in his twenties in either a brightly coloured polo shirt with the collar popped or a very large, very loose t-shirt and baggy shorts. If he's wearing shades, they're probably shutter shades. He's also wearing a baseball cap, but even if it would protect his eyes from the sun, he refuses to wear it correctly. In his hand is a bottle of the worst expensive beer available in your area. He notices you looking for a second, and because he's really aware how stupid he looks, but too proud to change styles, he will approach you with such respect for your personal space that you begin to wonder if he's an untreated autistic. "You got a problem, man?" he bleats in a pubescent voice that belies his age, making sure to extend the "o" sound as if he only has a vague idea of how to stress a word in speech. Within seconds, his identical friends surround you and repeat the same phrase, and when you don't answer, they grow confused and, after poorly insulting you a few times, scatter and are never heard from again.

You're welcome.
:lol:




you win.

[Angry Young Man]

Why's everybody on about "popped" collars? Does this mean wearing your collar up? It's the best way. I have a dress shirt that's always worn with the collar up. They were originally meant to be up to protect from sunburn.

[Obs]

Why's everybody on about "popped" collars? Does this mean wearing your collar up? It's the best way. I have a dress shirt that's always worn with the collar up. They were originally meant to be up to protect from sunburn.
Please tell us all you're joking.

[Angry Young Man]

Why? Should I not wear my collar up? It's a blue cotton hip-cut shirt, not a pink polo shirt

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

@ Jimmie Higgins - I can't quote your post because of this shitty browser, but I agree on 'slackerism'. I feel like the film Slacker best represents my life and I'd rather be known as a slacker than a hipster haha.

[Angry Young Man]

Do you find the term 'bohemian' pretentious?

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

Not particularly. Haven't heard it since that Dandy Warhols one hit wonder anyway.

[Angry Young Man]

They're like hipsters only less closet-conservative and more weird

[JustMovement]

Hipster style. Revolutionary style.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/it/b/b8/Anni_di_piombo2.jpg
Notice those flared jeans and leather shoes. also notice the gun and balaclava

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/it/b/bd/Anni_di_piombo3.jpg
Here we see the ironic "goofy" hat, with shades and a scarf. Also notice how they replaced the traditional raised fist with the "raised glock"- fucking hipsters...

[Jimmie Higgins]

Hipster style. Revolutionary style.
Ha, yeah like this:

http://www.msac.org/gallery_images/Trevino184.jpg

Funny moustache, tight jeans, boots, vest...
fucking hipsters...

[Quail]

I think "popped" collars look kind of weird, and associate them with dickhead creepy men in clubs.

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

Danny Dyer pops his collar and he's a right fucking bellend.

[Angry Young Man]

I heard he had a paddy and quit his show after something Frankie Boyle said on Charlie Brooker's show.

But yea, it looks totally different on a long-sleeved button-up shirt.

[Chambered Word]

there are very few people, like James Dean, who could wear their collar like that without looking like a massive tosser.

[Angry Young Man]

You're still missing out on the kind of shirt. Polo shirts make you look like a wanker whatever the collar's like.

[Manic Impressive]

Danny Dyer pops his collar and he's a right fucking bellend.
why do people find him attractive? some women I know describe him as their ideal man.

[Who?]

Why are hipsters such a hot topic this year?

I don't really like hipsters or anything, I've indeed met some of them who are pretentious and condescending. But I don't see them as a problem, I see them as confused young people who for some reason latched onto a particular subculture. I don't think it's right to dismiss them as petit-bourgois considering that a lot of the ones I've met can barely afford to pay their rent.

I just wish more of them were like your typical slacker/indie rock fan. Like the ones who dress like normal people and don't really care about seeming like they know esoteric concepts.

[Jimmie Higgins]

like your typical slacker/indie rock fanPfft! Like whatever dude.

Anyway, I think they are a big topic because I think everyone realizes that hipsterism died with the stock market. The new militant slacker underground just hasn't replaced them yet.

[Who?]

I agree that the recession has been polarizing the hipster community. But I don't see any slacker underground rising up. At least not in New York.