Why is the American term of 'libertarianism' so different?

[WyoLeftist]

As an American, and as someone who constantly hears people refer to themselves as 'libertarians' to avoid the label of Conservative, I've been wondering why libertarian has a hard-right meaning in America, and a seemingly socialist/anarchist/far-left meaning else where in the world. Why the difference, and when did the schism happen?

[La Peur Rouge]

As an American, and as someone who constantly hears people refer to themselves as 'libertarians' to avoid the label of Conservative, I've been wondering why libertarian has a hard-right meaning in America, and a seemingly socialist/anarchist/far-left meaning else where in the world.

Basically their brand of "libertarian" means you're completely free to be a wage-slave under capitalism, or starve.

These people are "libertarians" in a sense that they want capitalism to have the "liberty" to have free reign over everything, with minimal government intervention, and minimal government in general. Privatize everything, etc. They see government as the cause of economic problems, maybe if they thought a little deeper they would realize that maybe capitalist economy is the cause of economic problems (but that's asking for a lot).


Why the difference, and when did the schism happen?

I don't really know much about the history of the term but this should help:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism


The use of the word "libertarian" to describe a set of political positions can be tracked to the French cognate, libertaire, which was coined in 1857 by French anarchist communist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist_communism) Joseph Déjacque (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_D%C3%A9jacque) who used the term to distinguish his libertarian communist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist_communism) approach from the mutualism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutualism_%28economic_theory%29) advocated by Pierre-Joseph Proudhon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre-Joseph_Proudhon).[23] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism#cite_note-Graham-22)[24] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism#cite_note-dejacque-23)[25] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism#cite_note-D.C3.A9jacque1857concerning-24) Hence libertarian has been used as a synonym for left-wing anarchism or libertarian socialism since the 1890s.

[miltonwasfried...man]

Liberty to the american capitalists is freedom from the government to intervene in their affairs. And by affairs I mean the raping of the working class and environment.

[Aurorus Ruber]

I believe it happened sometime in the 70s with the establishment of the Libertarian party with its platform of anti-state capitalism. It borrowed the previously obscure (to Americans at least) term "libertarian" and used it to describe their own political philosophy.

[RadioRaheem84]

Libertarianism literally means liberty-lovers in the American sense. Liberty of course, being the liberty of owners of capital to do what they want while everyone else are only given the liberty to become owners of capital.

[agnixie]

This actually predates the 70s by a bit; Rothbard is largely responsible for this right-ward shift of the expression, as well as for the notion of anarcho-capitalism, which he later came to reject as anarchist.

[syndicat]

this goes back to the '60s. if you read "Capitalism & Freedom" by Milton Friedman, published in 1962, he doesn't call himself a "libertarian". he says "classical liberal." in the late '60s a group of U.S. ideological advocates of laissez faire decided to capture the word "libertarian " for their viewpoint. previously the word had been used to refer to a socialist tendency, that is, anarchism or libertarian socialism.

they claim...and conservatives like to claim...that laissez faire capitalism is a "free society".

the dispute is over what liberty is or whose liberty. "libertarian" refers to a viewpoint that allegedly places a strong emphasis on liberty. the right wing libertarians are really fanatical defenders of the absolute rights of private property owners. as such they are defenders of dictatorship of landlords over tenants and of capitalists over workers.

to put it another way, they are concerned with the liberty of capitalists whereas left libertarianism or libertarian socialism is concerned with the liberty of the working class & oppressed.

[WyoLeftist]

How can you call yourself a capitalist and an anarchist? I've read Rothbard, many times over, and regardless of how he tries to spin it, you still can't convince me of the idea of a true 'anarcho-capitalist.' I've gotten into MULTIPLE arguments about how the term 'libertarian socialist' (which is how I used to describe myself) was an 'oxymoron' or a 'contradiction in terms.'

[GPDP]

IMO it has more to do with the American left being weaker than its counterparts in Europe than with ideologues stealing the word. They managed to appropriate it here precisely because there was no opposition to it. The fact that pro-capitalist American jingoism makes constant appeals to "liberty" doesn't help matters either.

[Tim Cornelis]

It's not entirely true though. Chomsky popularized the notion that "libertarianism means something entirely different in the rest of the world" but it's false.

Just look at the German wikipedia page:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarismus

And the Spanish page:

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarismo

Without speaking a word German one can see that it's filled with referneces to Rothbard, minarchism and an Ancap flag.

The same goes for the Netherlands. The word "libertariër" is used by right-wing properarians as well, though this may be the result of American influence on Dutch language as a result of the internet. Most Dutch people (and other Europeans of coursE) learn about political philosophy from the internet in the English language and translate these words literally back to our language.

So it may be that Europeans just literally translate wikipedia from English without native etymology which leads to the degeneration of th word.

[LegendZ]

Because everything in America is fucked up.

[Bronco]

This actually predates the 70s by a bit; Rothbard is largely responsible for this right-ward shift of the expression, as well as for the notion of anarcho-capitalism, which he later came to reject as anarchist.

Rothbard rejected Anarcho-Capitalism? News to me

[WyoLeftist]

Rothbard rejected Anarcho-Capitalism? News to me

I was gonna say the exact same thing. Everything I've read from Rothbard seemed to keep with his original ideal of 'anarcho-capitalism.' The closest to rejecting the term I ever saw was his rejection of the left wing of the original libertarian movement in America. To his credit, tho, he also rejected the creation and platform of the American 'Libertarian Party' as well, and from what I can see, had nothing to do with the party itself.

[Black Sheep]

Chosmky.Try to ignore the greek subtitles i've added =/
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