Vince Cable lists Marx as one of the greatest economists of all time

[Zanthorus]

In an article for the Daily Mail here (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-2014647/Karl-Marx-John-Maynard-Keynes-Ten-greatest-economists-Vince-Cable.html) listing the top ten economists of all time Cable put Marx in at #4. Unfortunately it's a mixture of the 'Marx as a student of capitalism rather than advocate of it's demise' crap and the standard 'Marx ironed out the inconsistencies in Ricardo/improved on classical economics' line of people who never bother even to read subtitles, but still maybe of minor interest:


OK, Marx might now be remembered as a revolutionary advocate of communism - he co-wrote The Communist Manifesto - but he was a leading 19th-century economist in the 'classical' tradition. Indeed, in many ways he is the father of Economic History, having developed explanations for the evolution of the economic structure from feudalism to capitalism. The German philosopher, sociologist and economist, who spent much of his life in London (and is buried in Highgate Cemetery), developed theories to explain why capitalist economies - which he opposed - have fluctuations and crises. However, despite his belief in capitalism's self-destructive tendencies, much of his economic thinking stands up to scrutiny. Had it not been for The Communist Manifesto, I think Western commentators would recognise more readily today his role in advancing economic thinking.

I'm just hoping this doesn't lead to another round of 'Cable is a secret Marxist/left-winger' type hysteria.

[Die Neue Zeit]

"Much of his economic thinking stands up to scrutiny" is more a reference to Cable's limited knowledge of Marx's critique rather than an objective statement. Honestly, Marx the crisis economist is so so overrated.

[Jose Gracchus]

How is "Marx the crisis economist" "so so overrated"? I can't wait to hear this.

[Aurora]

What a fuckin idiot, seriously, except for Marx's analysis of the absolute bankruptcy of capitalism he was a great guy, give me a fuckin break like.

[Red Commissar]

I've seen this alot. While it's a good change from the "evil Marx" standpoint that used to be fairly common, it still muddles his contributions in the end. I've seen this mentioned by many economists in some form regarding Marx nowadays like Z says in his post.

One thing that often bugs me about this "new" interpretation is they often append something like "utopian" in their description about Marx, odd considering how much Marx and Engels blasted the very notion of utopianism. Man, I might as well have a drinking game over how many times "utopian" is mentioned when these guys discuss Marxism.

[Jose Gracchus]

I've seen this alot. While it's a good change from the "evil Marx" standpoint it still downplays his contributions in the end. I've seen this mentioned by many economists in some form regarding Marx nowadays like Z says in his post.

One thing that often bugs me about this "new" interpretation is they often append something like "utopian" in their description about Marx, odd considering how much they blasted that very notion. Man, I might as well have a drinking game over how many times "utopian" is mentioned when these guys discuss Marxism.

Its just the de rigueur bullshit for a respectable bourgeois academic.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Vince Cable is a doddery old fool.

He always seems to be trying to position himself just to the left of everyone else, but can't hide his class allegiance and overall shitty politics.

A perfect example of a wolf in an ugly sheep's clothing.

[Hit The North]

At least he left that idiot, Mises, out of his list.

[Nox]

Vince Cable lists Marx as one of the greatest economists of all time


and rightly so.

[Kiev Communard]

At least he left that idiot, Mises, out of his list.

I would say that Friedman also does not deserve to be included in this list. If it is necessary to include some of the more "mainstream" economists there, it should have been Jevons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Stanley_Jevons) or Walras (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Léon_Walras) (save for the fact that they laid the foundation for the current mainstream economics' fixation on individual consumer preferences to the detriment of the large social factors determining prices and ultimately value).

[agnixie]

I actually think Friedman on such a list is interesting because he's one of the very few successors to Hayek's neoliberal economics to outright admit that market efficiency is bullshit. I like Friedman mostly because of admissions like these which betray a number of problems.

[Kiev Communard]

I actually think Friedman on such a list is interesting because he's one of the very few successors to Hayek's neoliberal economics to outright admit that market efficiency is bullshit.

Interesting. Do you mind providing a link to that statement of him?

[agnixie]

Interesting. Do you mind providing a link to that statement of him?

Right now, this is the only reference to it I can remember (http://www.byjustinfox.com/2006/11/milton_friedman.html) and I probably lost other stuff in a bookmarks purge. Will try to locate.

[Die Neue Zeit]

How is "Marx the crisis economist" "so so overrated"? I can't wait to hear this.

Because his analysis of exploitation is more important, and because his political activity in the IWMA and related programmatic work are more important. Naturally, all of that is underrated.

[Jose Gracchus]

Because his analysis of exploitation is more important, and because his political activity in the IWMA and related programmatic work are more important. Naturally, all of that is underrated.

That doesn't explain why Marx the crisis economist is "overrated," which implicitly suggests that his crisis economics is flawed or problematic and thus overhyped. Overrated doesn't mean "other stuff by the same person doesn't get enough credit." What makes Indiana Jones overrated isn't that people don't appreciate THX-1138 enough.

[maskerade]

That doesn't explain why Marx the crisis economist is "overrated," which implicitly suggests that his crisis economics is flawed or problematic and thus overhyped. Overrated doesn't mean "other stuff by the same person doesn't get enough credit." What makes Indiana Jones overrated isn't that people don't appreciate THX-1138 enough.

You watch your mouth about Indiana Jones

[Zanthorus]

You will have noticed by now a very distinctive pattern to DNZ's posts. He will tend to post one-liners in a thread which either contain obscure jargon words or are formatted in such a way as to be gauranteed to rile up some of the more established or theoretically adept members of the board and subsequently seek to cover himself in some convoluted fashion. In traditional netspeak this is referred to as 'trolling', and it's generally advised that instead of responding, you ignore the troll so as to starve them of material to feed upon.

[Die Neue Zeit]

That doesn't explain why Marx the crisis economist is "overrated," which implicitly suggests that his crisis economics is flawed or problematic and thus overhyped. Overrated doesn't mean "other stuff by the same person doesn't get enough credit." What makes Indiana Jones overrated isn't that people don't appreciate THX-1138 enough.

Fair enough. Bourgeois economists and sensationalists focus squarely on crisis economics when it comes to the likes of Marx and Minsky, so I generally downplay those and focus on what I said earlier.

It should also be noted that too much emphasis on crisis economics tends to lead to certain opportunist political strategies that aren't viable in the long run.