Conservatives: "Stalin was building a communist society"

[RedMarxist]

I get so much crap from conservatives-school, home(my bro hates communism but admits he never read anything about it because he doesn't feel like it:laugh:), etc. I came across one "justification" for why communism is scary:

"oh well, Stalin, that guy was building a communist society. We can't let that shit happen again"

it is shit like this that I have become accustomed to in school especially if I bring up anything remotely socialist. Stalin was communist, so therefore communism is evil and 'it can never come back for the good of mankind'

I really don't know how to diffuse something like that. If it came up again(God help us all) from some loser conservative in school I would find myself dumbstruck

Why is this so?

well, I know what to say, its just when I say it they[conservative morons] are so hard core that they refuse to believe it. When I mention how Stalin's "communist" society was class based, the reward system, bosses in the soviet workplaces, etc. I get a weird look, as if educating yourself is a bad thing.

I have no idea in general on how to diffuse an argument[thank god they are rare at school] with someone who, when confronted with pure logic, refuse to believe it.

"I know enough about communism" or "I never read Marx but..." is usually the response when I point out holes in their faulty logic.

High School sucks! I can't wait to go back! :lol:

[Impulse97]

Dude, most HS students are like this. All they do is parrot back what they've been spoon fed all their lives as if it was the gospel truth. They learn it from their parents, pastors, teachers, textbooks and t.v. a.k.a people and things they trust to give them accurate info, so they never question it. It doesn't matter if it's faulty, even obviously so, because it's been pounded into them all their lives they'll find a way to justify it. If their conservative it's even worse, because they believe the even more outrageous shit that the GOP spews out. They're more likely to be patriotic (or even nationalistic) and that just makes it worse, because anything that goes against god and his chosen land has to be lies/bullshit.

All, you can do is look for the more liberal ones and try to befriend them. Then at least you might stand a chance of having a constructive conversation. Their politics aren't set in stone yet so they may be more open to new ideas.

In my school no one really cared about politics and I was given weird looks for giving a shit especially about something they've been taught to fear. Only really met a few hard-line cons. One of which at least has a reasonably good understanding of economics (for a HS student anyway) so we had some more intense debates and he was able to hold his own somewhat. Granted this kid probably coulda been in mensa so he was far from your average student. Met, a few too who where the Social-Dem types, not too keen on Socialism, but recognized that Capitalism wasn't working too well. Most of their reservations about Socialism came from the same place all the others got it from, parents, media etc. etc.

[RedMarxist]

I remember when I was debating with some friends about socialism. I made the mistake of bringing up the cliche "communism can work" line. As you can imagine I was told human nature makes communism unworkable, your stupid for thinking such a system can work, and so forth.

My lunch 'debates' are always interesting lol!

Oh, People always seem me in class as 'that really smart guy' who knows his shit. I'm 'that guy' who comes off kind of nerdy, but at the same time doesn't give a rats ass:D I'm a BIG history nerd, I know about stuff from the revolutionary war all the way to the Cold War and beyond(I read about war strat too got a nice illustrated civil war battle book)

people always ask me "how the hell do you know that?". anyways, I see no possible way to get someone to buy my communist rhetoric-too many conservative hardliners at my school.

[Astarte]

I get so much crap from conservatives-school, home(my bro hates communism but admits he never read anything about it because he doesn't feel like it:laugh:), etc. I came across one "justification" for why communism is scary:

"oh well, Stalin, that guy was building a communist society. We can't let that shit happen again"

it is shit like this that I have become accustomed to in school especially if I bring up anything remotely socialist. Stalin was communist, so therefore communism is evil and 'it can never come back for the good of mankind'

I really don't know how to diffuse something like that. If it came up again(God help us all) from some loser conservative in school I would find myself dumbstruck

Why is this so?

well, I know what to say, its just when I say it they[conservative morons] are so hard core that they refuse to believe it. When I mention how Stalin's "communist" society was class based, the reward system, bosses in the soviet workplaces, etc. I get a weird look, as if educating yourself is a bad thing.

I have no idea in general on how to diffuse an argument[thank god they are rare at school] with someone who, when confronted with pure logic, refuse to believe it.

"I know enough about communism" or "I never read Marx but..." is usually the response when I point out holes in their faulty logic.

High School sucks! I can't wait to go back! :lol:

Its a simple formula. In the USSR and PRC the state owned all property and means of production and the Party owned the state, and under Stalin, Stalin "owned" the Party. Was this actually "communism" though? Tell them to look up the word "communism" in any real dictionary and they will find it is a classless society. Clearly, since the vanguard party installed itself as a new bureaucratic centralist ruling class, the "Communism" of Stalin, the USSR and the PRC was not "Communist", but a modernized form of a kind of society in which private property is marginalized or absent in favor of state managerial society. In truth, communist society was the dominant mode for 9/10ths of human existence - hunter gatherer society was indeed communal.

[jake williams]

You're not going to have a lot of luck arguing with high school students about Stalin.

Try to have real conversations about history. Try to get people to think critically. Try to get people to think about class politics. Try to engage with the political issues people care about. If you're not talking the same language everyone else is, if you're not establishing any common ground, then you're not going to have a real conversation.

[RedMarxist]

I know, but how would I 'get' them to care about history even? Most people in my history class FAILED even though the work was incredibly easy.

Me and like this one girl were the only people who gave a shit about history, so ya. she was OBSESSED with the French Revolution though, so that was kind of cool.

Whereas she liked the French Revolution, my expertise was in the Russian Revolution.

But she represented like 1% of the population of the whole school it seems so I guess I'll have no luck arguing about Communism or even bringing it up in a common day to day issue, such as salary decreases at the local McDonalds.

I mean, I guess I could be like "the lowering of the wages of high school student workers shows that A) corporations only exist to exploit the worker and B) this is class warfare at its clearest form" but then I'd look like an ideologue so ya, not that I have not already come off as one.


I mean when Someone like me suggests banks should be nationalized and workplaces placed under democratic worker control, it looks weird(I haven't done that yet...) but politically I think nationalization/worker control of industry(not the same thing but whatever) is a good thing, seeing as how corrupt bank of America is(you know they made a record loss today paying off investors they cheated out of their money, its on the bbc)


So I'm at a loss. all the cons think nationalization is evil, and they have no clue what worker control means. any extra pointers?

[jake williams]

It isn't easy at all, and there aren't short or simple answers (including "It's all Stalin's fault, I'm talking about the communism that no one else has ever done and so none of the problems anywhere else will exist with the thing I'm talking about").

But if you're a communist, you believe that workers have a set of basic common interests. This presumably includes most of the students at your school, unless you're going to a pretty ritzy private school, in which case you're not going to have a lot of luck anyway (although for that matter, lots of bougie kids are into communism to piss off their parents, so you might).

Everyone has problems. Try to get to know people, try to get to sympathize with people, try to explain what the real solutions to their real problems are. People can't relate to Soviet history in the 1930s. You don't have to sound dogmatic, but you do have the right answers. It takes a lot of patience to always be right, and to always have to disagree with people, but if you're consistently reasonable and you're consistently correct, people will start to agree with you.

Have a sense of humour and be self-effacing. Listen to what people say and respect them. Be logical and have arguments and evidence.

[Pioneers_Violin]

Hi RedMarxist.

Now you're starting to see what most people are like. They have been indoctrinated with a world view from an early age and would rather die than admit it could be wrong or even incomplete. Talk with your history buff... It sounds like she might be willing to learn.
You two might well be the only students there with anything like an open mind!

For everyone else, diving right into Anna Louise Strong or whatever is a bad idea.


Remember that most people consider their world view to be absolute truth. Attacking it directly probably won't work.

Lately, I've been studying Stalin. He was probably the best committee person ever and could get a whole country full of dissenting ideas to agree on what needed to be done.

Learn from Stalin! His number one attribute? Listening.

Good luck,
PV

[Obs]

Learn from Stalin! His number one attribute? Listening.
the fuck

[piet11111]

Since such idiotic arguments carry such weight why not godwin them and say Hitler was a capitalist.

[Delenda Carthago]

For the Constitution of the 1936 there had been 500.000 assemblies in working plces and neibourhoods, there were 9.000 letters send to the commity and ended up with 14 articles being changed. Thats under the cruel dictator Stalin. In our democracy, the politicians offen piss on the constitutions they by themselves deside.

[RedMarxist]

I go to a big city public school

what bugs me is why can't we take cues from the USSR? assemblies sound like a good idea and yet we have not adopted that yet? wtf!

I do hope the Greek people can topple the regime and set things on the right path.

But really, "I know enough about communism..." translates to "I'm bullshitting you. I know jack about communism."

how can you call yourself and anti communist when you don't even know what communism is?

[agnixie]

If he was building a communist society, he was taking his sweet time at reducing the state and was probably doing workers' democracy by reverse psychology.

[RHIZOMES]

You're not going to have a lot of luck arguing with high school students about Stalin.

Try to have real conversations about history. Try to get people to think critically. Try to get people to think about class politics. Try to engage with the political issues people care about. If you're not talking the same language everyone else is, if you're not establishing any common ground, then you're not going to have a real conversation.

This was the mistake I fell into, in my "high school socialist" years. My school was extremely working-class yet I think I didn't win any converts by spouting outdated jargon and focusing on historical debates about an era in revolutionary history which is long gone. The advice I'd give any high school socialist is: Try seeing how capitalism negatively affects your fellow students and their families, and use that as a starting point. "Communism" is a word with loaded connotations in most people's minds, you gotta ease people into that sort of thing. I think this problem can't be reduced to simply your fellow students being stupid/ignorant and therefore you should just not bother with reasoning with them, it's a bit more complex than that.

[RedMarxist]

My school has many inner city/working class people attending it too. Yet even they are anti communist. I know some people very well who are very impoverished, and it saddens me that capitalism, the root cause of their poverty, is allowed to continue its onslaught unfettered.

I probably told you about that immigrant girl before right? well I guarantee you, capitalism is 99.9% to blame for her poverty, that and blatant racism. Yet, even she blindly accepts capitalism. I haven't outright said to anyone yet, contrary to what you may think, that I am indeed a communist. so she doesn't think I'm a total nut. These days I don't even know what she thinks, seeing all the shit she has to put up with. Lets just say that damn racist Arizona/Georgia law affected her family.

I'm convinced. The only way out of this system of 'white terror' is revolution. But how? It is so depressing knowing that it may never come, waking up everyday knowing that your beliefs may be for nothing, being ostracized by your family and peers. Maybe I should have chosen to be a democrat supporter/liberal, instead of believing in a "dead" ideology?

He was not "building communism". propaganda. The Stalin era USSR was so far from socialism as opposed to 1917 Russia immediately following the October Revolution.

[Rafiq]

Don't waste time thinking about it too much. Or else you'll stoop to their intellectual level.

[Impulse97]

Warning Sectarian shitfest in 5...4...3...2...1...

:rolleyes:

I considered commenting on that listening post, but decided not too since RM has managed to start a constructive thread that had yet to be derailed...

C'mon guys, lets stop now before it gets out of hand and we lose sight of the OP.

Being a Left Comm, I'm sure you all know my views on the terrible stalinsky so I won't post them. I'd hope everyone else can do the same.

[RedMarxist]

their intellectual level is ZERO. just kidding

but really what do you think. I'm not getting into specifics as to why but I care about her(as a friend). Do you think she'd be poor in a socialist society? if she was, at least then the state would provide incentives to keep her family afloat economically.

but who am I kidding we live in a capitalist society. People like her and even me must deal with the shit storms caused by bankers why said bankers make the big bucks $$. Things will never change, ha ha ha.:lol:

seriously though. Everyday I put up with stupid comments from friends/family, while being especially looked down upon by my parents, just because I have my own [unpopular] opinions and they have their mainstream ones. When I go to the library to check out books, its usually ones by Lenin or Trotsky/history books about Russian revolution My parents who sometimes take me there reluctantly let me check the books out. I don't see why educating yourself, again, is a bad thing.

[Leftsolidarity]

I have a VERY good experience dealing with the whitest and most conservative highschool in my entire state. I have some sort of twisted gift of turning some of the most hardcore tea-baggers onto the ideas of Marx and shooting down their arguments. It's rather fun and if you want any help PM and I'd love too.

[DiaMat86]

"oh well, Stalin, that guy was building a communist society. We can't let that shit happen again"





The history and culture of the USA is biased against communism. Most peoples historical knowledge is really a collection of lies. Big lies and small lies to make the USA look good and belittle everything else.

Here is some straight talk about Stalin that most workers never hear.

http://red-channel.de/Ordner_Lit/Literatur_Sprache.htm#e

[Impulse97]

@ RM

I'm supriesed your library even has those books. The only books ours has are 2 copies of the manifesto and two of Capital. Oh and a few biographies. Got a really good one on Che there. That's about it though for pro-Marxist stuff. Anti-Marxist books outnumber them 4:1. Lots of snazzy tittles. Saw one that read something like "Why Communism Failed and got Laughed off the World Stage"

[Impulse97]

I have a VERY good experience dealing with the whitest and most conservative highschool in my entire state. I have some sort of twisted gift of turning some of the most hardcore tea-baggers onto the ideas of Marx and shooting down their arguments. It's rather fun and if you want any help PM and I'd love too.

Please....tell me your secrets! I live in a rather small midwestern town full of wannabe rednecks, closet racists and proud nationalists.

[Leftsolidarity]

Please....tell me your secrets! I live in a rather small midwestern town full of wannabe rednecks, closet racists and proud nationalists.

Just PM me and give me some more insight into your area. It sort of changes for each situation that's why it's hard to just post up on a wall and have it work like magic.

[RedMarxist]

I'm in the most, by contrast, non-whitest school in the whole state-a very liberal school at that.

And even I can't convince people that socialism is a good thing. Well, to tell you the truth, I haven't really blatantly attempted a serious discussion...yet.

Now that I'm going back to school soon, I don't want to ruin my reputation in front of new people. Anyway to be subtle about it?

If I could change the whole world, I'd eliminate racism and sexism. I'd eliminate all inequality under capitalism. I'd eliminate capitalism. You'd think the most liberal school in the state[not true but still] would be less racist, but apparently when black/white/Latino/Asian people are forced to attend classes together, racist ignorance becomes a problem.

[Revolutionary_Change]

I would recommend starting with something like the ideas and arguments of "a people's history of the US" "lies my teacher told me" or "confessions of an economic hit man"
make them first question the what they have been taught (People's History) and the way they have been taught it (Lies)
then debunk capitalism supposed peaceful and freedom fueled rise to power.

just attacking an indoctrinated mind with alien concepts is ineffective. They will become defensive and cling even tighter to their erroneous beliefs.
you have to start small, slowly allowing them to take baby steps away from the mythology of America/Capitalism with less controversial historical facts they can accept. For example:Most students will agree that history text books are boring, and inaccurate; so talk with them about the history that's been left out: talk about the century of rebellions between the Am. Revolution and Civil war, and about the militant struggle for the 12,10 and then 8 hour day. By talking about things that they don't have a trained response to, you can often get people to make significant progress and slowly let go of their indoctrinated views in general. After they begin to get some distance from and perspective on their former ideology they will seek alternatives on their own.
and then you begin to talk about communism/socialism/anarchy

[RedMarxist]

that is the thing. They are scared of revolution, yet our country came about as a result of revolution from an unjust monarchy.

and in my opinion, we are living under an unjust oligarchic government. I do think it is time for a second American Revolution(I'm for real), but that will never come in my life time. right now it is only the product of fiction.


thanks for the advice. :)

people tend to forget their roots. Today, it seems every revolution world wide is categorized as "terrorism". huh? I do believe the Swamp Fox was a terrorist then too! :D


as for that girl, how to bring up capitalist exploitation and poverty without coming off as a jerk?

[Commissar Rykov]

that is the thing. They are scared of revolution, yet our country came about as a result of revolution from an unjust monarchy.

and in my opinion, we are living under an unjust oligarchic government. I do think it is time for a second American Revolution(I'm for real), but that will never come in my life time. right now it is only the product of fiction.


thanks for the advice. :)

people tend to forget their roots. Today, it seems every revolution world wide is categorized as "terrorism". huh? I do believe the Swamp Fox was a terrorist then too! :D


as for that girl, how to bring up capitalist exploitation and poverty without coming off as a jerk?
People are scared of Revolution because things are not bad enough for them yet. Economic and Material Conditions have to get to a certain point before people get agitated enough to want to get up off the couch and fight back. Not everyone will but just give it time.

[RemoveYourChains]

"oh well, Stalin, that guy was building a communist society. We can't let that shit happen again"

You'd do best to concentrate on becoming clear about your own political positions and your justification for them - then work on economizing how to best communicate those positions and the arguments in favour of them.

Getting side tracked by debates about Stalin (or past attempts at establishing socialism generally) is not fruitful. The subject matter is too complicated for the patience of most audiences, especially in informal circumstances.

The best way to avoid this distraction, is to not "wave your flag" as a "communist" in such an environment, but instead put forward (and argue on behalf of) communist positions. While it's consoling to have refuge in a social identity for personal reasons, it will do you no good in debating brainwashed youth (or many other segments of society for that matter.)

Titles/labels can be very "loaded" with baggage - much of it quite unfair. But that is the state of things. You'll find that you'll get further bypassing the emotional conditioning of people, and engaging them on substance. Their indoctrination - while powerful - is really quite superficial. It centers mostly on names, and personalities.

Of course, you will run into some slightly more informed reactionaries who will recognize that what you're describing is "communism" and then seek to drag you down into the kind of digression I mentioned earlier. The best thing to do in such a situation is to insist on a rebuttal of the substance of what you advocate - tell them outright that you have no interest in being an apologist for any given historical individual or institution - and that if there really is something causal unifying your positions with the alleged crimes and failures of the individuals said reactionaries insist on bringing up, they should be able to sufficiently demonstrate such by a critique of your platform. And then caution them, that if they cannot, they should consider the possibility that the historical foibles they're referencing have nothing to do with the intrinsic logic of socialism - just as "crappy people" have little bearing on the intrinsic value of "humanity" itself.

[Red_Struggle]

Well, if you want some good lit to read, I can possibly help you out.

http://red-channel.de/Ordner_Lit/Literatur_Sprache.htm Red Channel is a goldmine for finding book quotes about the USSR. It features stuff from the wage structure, to industrialization, to the 1937 purge.

http://www.mltranslations.org/Ireland/ico.htm If you want something on economics and revisionism, this should give you some good firepower.

http://www.departments.bucknell.edu/russian/const/1936toc.html The 1936 Soviet Constitution which you can read in its entirety.

http://www.historycooperative.org/journals/ahr/110.5/goldman.html An article on the 1937 purge and how it wasn't a paranoid outburst, but rather an inadequate attempt to rid the state and its enterprises of corruption and bureaucratism. It's also got a couple rare photos of workers attending and voting at accountability meetings and shop committees.

http://espressostalinist.wordpress.com/online-library/ And finally, there are a good amount of free PDFs you can access here.

[p0is0n]

All of this academic bullshit. My biggest regret now that I am older is that I didn't just punch most smug stupid people in the face back in school. Fuck the hippie bullshit, fuck the academic bullshit, fuck the ideological convincing and fuck the steptoeing. Fuck dressing up as oil barrels in some fucking G8 protest.

Class-fucking-war, nothing less.

There's no point in argumenting against these fucking people, they won't change their god damn minds, you're wasting your time and you'll only be dragged down to their level eventually and be frustrated by the fucking insane amount of stupidity displayed. Keep it up and eventually you'll become a cynical academic.

As a bonus I've included a list of a handful of my favourite responses to ugly liberals and other dumb people I can't be bothered to deal with:

1. Fuck you, class enemy (if generally anti-communist)
2. Fuck you, class traitor (if working class)
3. One good thing about Stalin was that he had 0people like you shot or imprisoned so you couldn't threaten the purity of the human race with by breeding forward your stupidity
4. You are so fucking ugly I want to stamp your face for hours
5. I hate you and I wish you die a painful death
6. I will ram my fist up your ass and work your mouth like a puppet to recite the entire first verse of the internationale you fucking twat

I hope these responses will help you in your battle of wills. Have a nice day.

[RedMarxist]

You've been very helpful

now, should I even bring up to her the issue of poverty under capitalism? or would that just be rude? I'm serious here, I feel pissed that someone I know is exploited due to class/race/situation and feel that I should bring up in passing how capitalism tends to 'work that way'

Then again I really don't want to come off as hurtful, as it could easily backfire on me. Best to not to even ponder it I guess.

anyways, I will be sure to check out those articles. Bookmarked some already. :D

[Red_Struggle]

now, should I even bring up to her the issue of poverty under capitalism? or would that just be rude?

Of course you should. It wouldn't be rude at all to point out the massive class differentiations and income gaps here in capitalist society; it's the right thing to do. Try pointing out that workers, no matter what their income, can never get back the full value of their labor because the profit they produce goes to a small amount of hands who are free to invest it in their own interests. It's probably be helpful to point out the exact income gap in the US and UK as examples (I don't have them off the top of my head so you'll have to look them up).

When it comes to the issue of "race," point out that many returning African American veterans following WW2 were denied FHA loans because of their skin color, thus making the whole idea of suburbia a "whites only" zone, and forcing the majority of said people to locate to inner cities. Or you could simply point out Jim Crow laws in the South and how they produced after effects that still exist to this day because of the radically institutionalized economic and social disadvantages that African Americans were thrown into.

[Red_Struggle]

1. Fuck you, class enemy (if generally anti-communist)
2. Fuck you, class traitor (if working class)
3. One good thing about Stalin was that he had 0people like you shot or imprisoned so you couldn't threaten the purity of the human race with by breeding forward your stupidity
4. You are so fucking ugly I want to stamp your face for hours
5. I hate you and I wish you die a painful death
6. I will ram my fist up your ass and work your mouth like a puppet to recite the entire first verse of the internationale you fucking twat

Have you ever tried St. John's Wort?

[Le Socialiste]

I'm convinced. The only way out of this system of 'white terror' is revolution. But how? It is so depressing knowing that it may never come, waking up everyday knowing that your beliefs may be for nothing, being ostracized by your family and peers. Maybe I should have chosen to be a democrat supporter/liberal, instead of believing in a "dead" ideology?

You should never just give up and succumb to the pressures of a corrupt and unjust system. By doing so, you simply give in to the propaganda that's fed to us every day of our lives - that the democrats and republicans represent two different ideological camps, that this competition proves essential to American "democracy", and that a free market is the ultimate representation of our nation's commitment to the basic principles of liberty. Communism (or socialism and anarchism) never died. It wasn't buried along with the Soviet Union (I could say why I believe that, but like others I'd rather not see this thread devolve into another tendency war).

[Leftsolidarity]

All of this academic bullshit. My biggest regret now that I am older is that I didn't just punch most smug stupid people in the face back in school. Fuck the hippie bullshit, fuck the academic bullshit, fuck the ideological convincing and fuck the steptoeing. Fuck dressing up as oil barrels in some fucking G8 protest.

Class-fucking-war, nothing less.

There's no point in argumenting against these fucking people, they won't change their god damn minds, you're wasting your time and you'll only be dragged down to their level eventually and be frustrated by the fucking insane amount of stupidity displayed. Keep it up and eventually you'll become a cynical academic.

As a bonus I've included a list of a handful of my favourite responses to ugly liberals and other dumb people I can't be bothered to deal with:

1. Fuck you, class enemy (if generally anti-communist)
2. Fuck you, class traitor (if working class)
3. One good thing about Stalin was that he had 0people like you shot or imprisoned so you couldn't threaten the purity of the human race with by breeding forward your stupidity
4. You are so fucking ugly I want to stamp your face for hours
5. I hate you and I wish you die a painful death
6. I will ram my fist up your ass and work your mouth like a puppet to recite the entire first verse of the internationale you fucking twat

I hope these responses will help you in your battle of wills. Have a nice day.

You know it's not inevitable that we will have a revolution right? You at least to need educate the working class but your mentality will completely push them away.

[RemoveYourChains]

All of this academic bullshit. My biggest regret now that I am older is that I didn't just punch most smug stupid people in the face back in school. Fuck the hippie bullshit, fuck the academic bullshit, fuck the ideological convincing and fuck the steptoeing. Fuck dressing up as oil barrels in some fucking G8 protest.

How do you account for me then - I was persuaded by the force of argumentation?

You cannot have an open confrontation with capital, w/o establishing a base of support. Alienating the people one claims to be interested in helping through cathartic outbursts of rage is entirely counter-productive.

[Commissar Rykov]

All of this academic bullshit. My biggest regret now that I am older is that I didn't just punch most smug stupid people in the face back in school. Fuck the hippie bullshit, fuck the academic bullshit, fuck the ideological convincing and fuck the steptoeing. Fuck dressing up as oil barrels in some fucking G8 protest.

Class-fucking-war, nothing less.

There's no point in argumenting against these fucking people, they won't change their god damn minds, you're wasting your time and you'll only be dragged down to their level eventually and be frustrated by the fucking insane amount of stupidity displayed. Keep it up and eventually you'll become a cynical academic.

As a bonus I've included a list of a handful of my favourite responses to ugly liberals and other dumb people I can't be bothered to deal with:

1. Fuck you, class enemy (if generally anti-communist)
2. Fuck you, class traitor (if working class)
3. One good thing about Stalin was that he had 0people like you shot or imprisoned so you couldn't threaten the purity of the human race with by breeding forward your stupidity
4. You are so fucking ugly I want to stamp your face for hours
5. I hate you and I wish you die a painful death
6. I will ram my fist up your ass and work your mouth like a puppet to recite the entire first verse of the internationale you fucking twat

I hope these responses will help you in your battle of wills. Have a nice day.
Yes, "Fuck Intellectualism" or any other use of persuasion. Violence is a tool and like any tool is only applicable to certain situations. You can't go around smashing everything with the same tool and expect results.

[RedMarxist]

look, shouting insults at people will only make them not like communists even more.

You have to try and reason with them(as much as you can). For if you don't, they will continue to hate communism without actually knowing what it is.

Besides, our school has a no swearing policy(damn) so saying 'fuck you class enemy' to someone would get you in deep shit.


Revolution is only not inevitable if we make it so. We must educate the working classes about their historical role and get them on our side.
'Fuck you class traitor' is not a legitimate way to bring them over to our side.

but thanks for the wonderful suggestions.

[ComradePonov]

All of this academic bullshit. My biggest regret now that I am older is that I didn't just punch most smug stupid people in the face back in school. Fuck the hippie bullshit, fuck the academic bullshit, fuck the ideological convincing and fuck the steptoeing. Fuck dressing up as oil barrels in some fucking G8 protest.

Class-fucking-war, nothing less.

There's no point in argumenting against these fucking people, they won't change their god damn minds, you're wasting your time and you'll only be dragged down to their level eventually and be frustrated by the fucking insane amount of stupidity displayed. Keep it up and eventually you'll become a cynical academic.

As a bonus I've included a list of a handful of my favourite responses to ugly liberals and other dumb people I can't be bothered to deal with:

1. Fuck you, class enemy (if generally anti-communist)
2. Fuck you, class traitor (if working class)
3. One good thing about Stalin was that he had 0people like you shot or imprisoned so you couldn't threaten the purity of the human race with by breeding forward your stupidity
4. You are so fucking ugly I want to stamp your face for hours
5. I hate you and I wish you die a painful death
6. I will ram my fist up your ass and work your mouth like a puppet to recite the entire first verse of the internationale you fucking twat

I hope these responses will help you in your battle of wills. Have a nice day.


How are we any better than the Neo-Nazi's if we adopt this state of mind?

We must hold intelligent discussion with our collegues. Socialism is supposed to be carried out by the people. Generaly, "you will never change their minds" is another way of saying "I am too lazy / stupid to debate this with you, so I won't."

I hear a lot of Neo Nazi's say "I won't change your mind any way, so I won't argue with you."

[Dogs On Acid]

How old are you, RedMarxist?

[Dogs On Acid]

All of this academic bullshit. My biggest regret now that I am older is that I didn't just punch most smug stupid people in the face back in school. Fuck the hippie bullshit, fuck the academic bullshit, fuck the ideological convincing and fuck the steptoeing. Fuck dressing up as oil barrels in some fucking G8 protest.

Class-fucking-war, nothing less.

There's no point in argumenting against these fucking people, they won't change their god damn minds, you're wasting your time and you'll only be dragged down to their level eventually and be frustrated by the fucking insane amount of stupidity displayed. Keep it up and eventually you'll become a cynical academic.

As a bonus I've included a list of a handful of my favourite responses to ugly liberals and other dumb people I can't be bothered to deal with:

1. Fuck you, class enemy (if generally anti-communist)
2. Fuck you, class traitor (if working class)
3. One good thing about Stalin was that he had 0people like you shot or imprisoned so you couldn't threaten the purity of the human race with by breeding forward your stupidity
4. You are so fucking ugly I want to stamp your face for hours
5. I hate you and I wish you die a painful death
6. I will ram my fist up your ass and work your mouth like a puppet to recite the entire first verse of the internationale you fucking twat

I hope these responses will help you in your battle of wills. Have a nice day.

That sort of language is unnecessary and just shows how immature you probably are. Wash your mouth. If I was a Mod I would be giving infractions for this sort of foul behaviour.

[Delenda Carthago]

There should be a sticked thread for that matter.

OK.

A. This type of anticommunism is not a bad thing. If to these people communism is a totalitarian, antidemocratic regime that a nut dictator is ruling with iron fist, its not a conservative thing to be against it. On the contrary.

B. The only way to show what communism is all about, its to give the everyday struggle. Only if you fight people will understand what you are about. The fact that people accepted Black Panthers was not that they managed to make every single one of their supporters accept maoism just because, but the fact that they gave fights for that cause. Plus, nobody will support something because of what it used to be back then, but what it has to offer today. Even if the capitalist propaganda wanted Stalin to be a saint, nobody would care if there wasnt any answers for today. And on the contrary, people dont give a shit if Stalin was cruel if m-ls today have answers.

[Leftsolidarity]

^That^

[RedMarxist]

I'm in my teens but at our high school the fucking teachers take a hard line stance against swearing, even though no one cares of course at that age. Well, the teachers I had were weird...:lol:

this is the school that tells people to dress 'conservatively'(don't they all do that!). Its not like your sinning or something if you wear a revealing shirt or dress in front of a guy(s)

ya so its interesting how the 1936 constitution provided apparently for more democracy then the US constitution...yet the society was totalitarian.

like I said before, swearing like a sailor, throwing insults is a horrible way to get people to become communists/agree with communism. how old are you?

[Impulse97]

ya so its interesting how the 1936 constitution provided apparently for more democracy then the US constitution...yet the society was totalitarian.

Lots of dictatorships use constitutions to seem legitimate, when in reality they're meaningless. Sadly, even 75 years later people are still being fooled by it.

[Dogs On Acid]

I'm in my teens but at our high school the fucking teachers take a hard line stance against swearing, even though no one cares of course at that age. Well, the teachers I had were weird...:lol:

this is the school that tells people to dress 'conservatively'(don't they all do that!). Its not like your sinning or something if you wear a revealing shirt or dress in front of a guy(s)

ya so its interesting how the 1936 constitution provided apparently for more democracy then the US constitution...yet the society was totalitarian.

like I said before, swearing like a sailor, throwing insults is a horrible way to get people to become communists/agree with communism. how old are you?

Well people should be cautious with their swearing. It's not being conservative, it's being civil and mature. Trotsky defended this idea.

Dress codes can be good or bad, depending on the situation. I think it's ok to wear a school-uniform, but there should not be a ban on piercings, haircuts or tattoos.

How old is "in my teens"? I will tell you why I'm asking in a minute.

[RedMarxist]

so your suggesting the US constitution means nothing? I agree...kind of.

at the time it was written it WAS revolutionary, but now it seems stale in comparison to what direct democratic movements in Greece/Spain can offer us. No doubt if in the highly unlikely scenario where ALL of Europe starts flying the true democracy banner, America could become a 'holdout' for representative democracy, if not fascism.

I highly doubt the US elites would provide true democracy for the people. That is why you have to take it for yourself, and if that means the ruin of the rich class and political elite, so be it.

I'd rise up against this system-but right now I'm "too young". if the revolution happened today, my parents would not let me leave the house to rise up if a massive revolutionary wave hit our city.

even if the Soviet constitution meant nothing, I'd still recommend to this government to use the assemblies to its advantage. Assemblies would allow them to coordinate with the people to make more just and fair laws, but who am i kidding-the bankers don't want that.

[agnixie]

so your suggesting the US constitution means nothing? I agree...kind of.

at the time it was written it WAS revolutionary, but now it seems stale in comparison to what direct democratic movements in Greece/Spain can offer us. No doubt if in the highly unlikely scenario where ALL of Europe starts flying the true democracy banner, America could become a 'holdout' for representative democracy, if not fascism.


So your examples are a constitutional monarchy and a parliamentary system that also uses indirect elections? Because until they show anything to the table, Greece/Spain are offering protests, class consciousness, but this is very much not The Revolution yet.

[RedMarxist]

The popular assemblies in Greece vowed to topple the government, I'm sure they will deliver on that promise.

If they do this, it will send shock waves across Europe. I doubt America will want this, and who knows-it could all fall apart here too like in Greece.

I doubt people will just sit there, see how great true democracy is, and not do anything about it in America. there will be huge protests if the Greek people succeed in America.

anyways, Why would FightTogether even bother to ask my age? am I immature? what? the suspense is killing me!

[ComradePonov]

I'm in my teens but at our high school the fucking teachers take a hard line stance against swearing, even though no one cares of course at that age. Well, the teachers I had were weird...:lol:

this is the school that tells people to dress 'conservatively'(don't they all do that!). Its not like your sinning or something if you wear a revealing shirt or dress in front of a guy(s)

ya so its interesting how the 1936 constitution provided apparently for more democracy then the US constitution...yet the society was totalitarian.

like I said before, swearing like a sailor, throwing insults is a horrible way to get people to become communists/agree with communism. how old are you?


You're not suggesting that the stalinist elitist constitution of 1936 meant any thing at all, are you?


I don't want to divert the main point of this thread, but keep in mind that the constitution certainly didn't stop stalin from carrying out the many purges which happened after 1936. Nor did it stop Stalin from killing dozens of fellow comrades and old Bolsheviks.


There aren't many constitution-free states in the world. The question is, how many of these constitutions mean anything? The answer is 0.

[Impulse97]

so your suggesting the US constitution means nothing? I agree...kind of.

No, I mean that the constitutions of tyrants and dictators are worthless. Not that you aren't correct, it just wasn't my point.

Now if you will, I'm getting dangerously close to breaking my own advice, so I think I'm gonna go dig up something related to the OP to post.

[Dogs On Acid]

anyways, Why would FightTogether even bother to ask my age? am I immature? what? the suspense is killing me!

Because people treat you differently according to your age, so I want to get a better understanding of your situation in high school.
The younger you are the less importance people give to your arguments.

[RedMarxist]

late teens. specifically if I may 16-17teenish

With that out of the way, I'd just like to say, and because I think this thread kind of went on a tangent and has nothing to do with conservatives, that what bugs me about conservatives is, and technically this should be for another thread, but what bugs me is the christian conservative's blind faith in religion.

Not to offend anyone who may be a Christian, I myself kind of am one but really don't know what I am, but you ever wonder how in the world Noah could have gotten all the animals, microscopic organisms included, onto the arK?

plus, lets not forget forcing public schools to ban books "on witchcraft" and to get rid of evolution in place of creationism.

This is why I can't really call myself a true believer, yet my parents do just fine as well as my bro.

[Dogs On Acid]

late teens. specifically if I may 16-17teenish

With that out of the way, I'd just like to say, and because I think this thread kind of went on a tangent and has nothing to do with conservatives, that what bugs me about conservatives is, and technically this should be for another thread, but what bugs me is the christian conservative's blind faith in religion.

Not to offend anyone who may be a Christian, I myself kind of am one but really don't know what I am, but you ever wonder how in the world Noah could have gotten all the animals, microscopic organisms included, onto the arK?

plus, lets not forget forcing public schools to ban books "on witchcraft" and to get rid of evolution in place of creationism.

This is why I can't really call myself a true believer, yet my parents do just fine as well as my bro.

The only reason you consider yourself Christian is because your parents are. It's a kind of indoctrination. If you were born in Saudi Arabia, chances are you would be Muslim, for the same reason, parents.

Truth is you are probably agnostic, or possibly atheist, but never actually took the idea seriously.

I recommend you read Richard Dawkin's book: The God Delusion

Also most communists tend to be atheists for a reason. We are Materialists, Humanists and Scientists. If someone tells you Marx was a Jew, it's not exactly correct, he was a Jewish Atheist.

[RedMarxist]

The reason i haven't really thought about it is cause my parents are worried about me, faith wise. I have said I'm agnostic but I'm first of all forced to go to church. I don't really want to. I just can't believe in something so ludicrous. my parents say "they worry about my soul". again the soul does not exist, as how can it? I mean is there evidence for the existence of a soul? I don't think there is.

If i got caught reading that book My parents probably would not even let me continue to read it, and if they did they'd be even more concerned

so your right about indoctrination into something I don't see myself as. I'm not amoral I can just not believe in it. My parents know some evangelicals who are diehard fanatics, who think atheism is the most amoral thing ever, that the Buddha is a false idol, voodooism is satanic, and that harry potter should be banned/burned to prevent people from becoming witches and wizards.:crying:

I'd like to see there reaction after I tell them(and I wont) that I'm an atheistic Communist.

[Dogs On Acid]

The reason i haven't really thought about it is cause my parents are worried about me, faith wise. I have said I'm agnostic but I'm first of all forced to go to church. I don't really want to. I just can't believe in something so ludicrous.

If i got caught reading that book My parents probably would not even let me read it, and if they did they'd be even more concerned

so your rights in indoctrination into something I don't see myself as. I'm not amoral I can just not believe in it. My parents know some evangelicals who are diehard fanatics, who think atheism is the most amoral thing ever, that the Buddha is a false idol, and that harry potter should be banned to prevent people from becoming witches and wizards.:crying:

Wow... Get the fuck out of that house. No wonder religion should be abolished, it's reactionary and promotes ignorance.

[RedMarxist]

I know. and thats not the worst part. My parents arent evangelicals. Even they have doubted their religion. But I get responses like when discussing the fallibility of biblical stories like: "I just have to believe" or "if there is no God then what is the point"

[Dogs On Acid]

I know. and thats not the worst part. My parents arent evangelicals. Even they have doubted their religion. But I get responses like when discussing the fallibility of biblical stories like: "I just have to believe" or "if there is no God then what is the point"

It's called faith, it's irrational and people act on it without thought or judgement. This leads to extreme situations like suicide bombers or armed religious groups (including Christians).

I honestly hope you haven't inherited the pro-life bullshit... or the anti-stem cell research, have you?


I'd like to see there reaction after I tell them(and I wont) that I'm an atheistic Communist.

Tell them. What's the point in hiding who you are? By doing so you are being false. Tell them you don't want to go to church any more because you don't believe in God (it's not necessary to say you are Atheist, that word has been made demoniacal, they might call an exorcist). You are suffering from a form of oppression. We communists fight against that.

Also if a political discussion comes up, you don't have to tell them you are Communist, just say that the current Capitalist system doesn't work and you believe that it needs to change to something more fair and equal.

[RedMarxist]

I'm pro-choice and see no reason why one cannot use stem cells to cure humanities' ills.

Apparently a cell is more important then the life of a grown adult.

and apparently a fetus is living organism and its murder if you abort it even if you get raped

again, my parents aren't die hard Christians. They are moderate but they are no doubt influenced by the evangelicalism

these evangelicals I will just say actually sent their son to a christian college, you know the ones that divide female and male dorms, etc. and teach creationism. I thank goodness will be sent to a regular college...phew

And that brings me onto another topic. According to them[the evangelicals] pre-marital sex is a sin, well so apparently its a sin now to have sex with your bf or gf, even if you might marry regardless. i never got why American culture thinks marriage is so important. I know people who arnet married but live together happily


why do people keep saying the Buddha is a false idol? and why is voodooism evil(hint its not). and why the fuck should we burn harry potter!

your right. it is a form of oppression. But again, my parents think I'll will, overtime become amoral/"go to Hell" because I denounced God basically. How does being an atheist make you amoral?


furthermore, if I DON'T believe in a soul, then how can I worry about going to Hell or not? furthermore, what gives God the authority to judge me based on my life decisions?

[Reznov]

You're not going to have a lot of luck arguing with high school students about Stalin.

Try to have real conversations about history. Try to get people to think critically. Try to get people to think about class politics. Try to engage with the political issues people care about. If you're not talking the same language everyone else is, if you're not establishing any common ground, then you're not going to have a real conversation.

Basically don't mention Communism or Socialism, just mention the workers and the rich exploitation, struggles etc...

Works every time, because usually I get people agreeing with me, and then I start talking about Marx or Lenin to them, usually not knowing who they are, become interested but almost have a heart attack when you mention they were Communists.

It's not the theory, its just the name and what is constantly tried to associate with it.

[Dogs On Acid]

I'm pro-choice and see no reason why one cannot use stem cells to cure humanities' ills.

Apparently a cell is more important then the life of a grown adult.

and apparently a fetus is living organism and its murder if you abort it even if you get raped
That's basically how stupid religion is.


again, my parents aren't die hard Christians. They are moderate but they are no doubt influenced by the evangelicalism
Well... That's a start...


these evangelicals I will just say actually sent their son to a christian college, you know the ones that divide female and male dorms, etc. and teach creationism. I thank goodness will be sent to a regular college...phew

Jesus Christ (no pun intended :lol:), I would rather leave home and squat in some old building than be forced to go to Godsucker school.


And that brings me onto another topic. According to them[the evangelicals] pre-marital sex is a sin, well so apparently its a sin now to have sex with your bf or gf, even if you might marry regardless. i never got why American culture thinks marriage is so important. I know people who arnet married but live together happily
I don't plan on ever getting married. It's pointless. Most people marry these days for legal/economical reasons, it's all false anyway.


why do people keep saying the Buddha is a false idol? and why is voodooism evil(hint its not). and why the fuck should we burn harry potter!
Because it's God's will. :laugh:


your right. it is a form of oppression. But again, my parents think I'll will, overtime become amoral/"go to Hell" because I denounced God basically. How does being an atheist make you amoral?
So? Let them think what they want, it won't change who you are, a soldier for our cause, like the rest of us.



furthermore, if I DON'T believe in a soul, then how can I worry about going to Hell or not? furthermore, what gives God the authority to judge me based on my life decisions?


Okay here is a tricky one, how do you define "soul"?

Edit: why is my comment all fucked up?

[RedMarxist]

its that magical thing inside you that makes you have emotions and morals and shit like that. and when you die, it magically teleports outside of your body and descends into heaven...wtf am I smoking? :blink:

I think Karl Marx's The German Ideology talks about this religious thing a lot as I read some of it barely?

At least 'm not a soldier for God's Army, which according to good old wikipedia is: an armed Christian terrorist group in rebellion against the Theravada Buddhist, military government of Myanmar
yes, rebelling against an unjust military oligarchy...makes you a terrorist. +1 points!:D

I should persuade my parents to let me wear a hammer and sickle t-shirt. on the first day back to school, it will make for a great conversation starter. ;)

Really, what is your stance, just because I'm curious, on teen dating/flirting? because those same evangelicals say its a sin for teens to date or something like that, and that flirting is wrong as it is promiscuous. well they did not really say it its just my parents told me this.

because there was/is this thing going on at school, wherein this girl whom I knew very well seemed to like me(really liked me judging by her actions). Too bad school ended before it went anywhere. but if I see her again, what should I say?

[Dogs On Acid]

its that magical thing inside you that makes you have emotions and morals and shit like that. and when you die, it magically teleports outside of your body and descends into heaven...wtf am I smoking? :blink:

:lol:

[RedMarxist]

I know. anyways, is dating/flirting wrong? I'm serious here.

[Dogs On Acid]

I know. anyways, is dating/flirting wrong? I'm serious here.

No, it's good.

[RedMarxist]

so what would you do in my situation? about the girl?

[Dogs On Acid]

so what would you do in my situation? about the girl?

Attraction is only a transition to a relationship. It's lost unless you build on it at the moment it happens.
She has already lost attraction.
So unless you can create attraction again, you will just be friends.

Google "The mystery method". It explains attraction and routines to get a girl.

Here is a quick definition of Attraction and it's triggers:

Full Definition:
Attraction triggers have been studied by every guru and pickup school in their quest to understand the origins of what we humans refer to as “attraction”.

“Female attraction” is associated by most schools of thought to originate from “value”. That is, the display of social value of a man within our society.

In MM:

Attraction triggers, as defined in MM is the hard-wired responses in a female’s brain through millions of years of sexual selection and evolution to a man of high S&R value. Different women may feel varying degrees of attraction; some may even have very unique things they like about a man. However, the following triggers are consistently proven in field to be attraction triggers:

On an external level:

Physical looks and style, combining to form an avatar
Calm, stable demeanor that subcommunicate higher value (body language, eye contact, movement)
Subtle sense of entitlement in life, that is conveyed in body language, eye contact, and many other ways
Social alliances and social proof at venue (situational confidence)
On a thematic and characteristic level:

Pre-selection – either having real women around you at all times or conveying that the PUA has women in his life via stories.
Leader of men – the ability to lead other men and groups to achieve a goal.
Protector of loved ones – the ability to protect those he cares for, which is also related to how one controls and attains power.
Ability and willingness to emote – to feel the right emotions of protection correctly given tough situations.
Having a purpose greater than oneself – being passionate about a cause or entity that is great than the individual.
The process of becoming a PUA, according to the MM school of thought, is to learn how to develop and embody these attractive characteristics.

In other schools of thought:

Most causes of attraction from other schools all have origins in evolutionary biology.
Not included in the mystery method list are many other triggers for creating attraction in women
These can include things like having a grounded personality, having options in life, being outcome independent, living in freedom, or as Zan would say, “the way we MOVE through life”
Variances in attraction depending on calibration to the exact girl (i.e. not all girls will find every attraction trigger equally appealing)
Most importantly, closing a woman requires more than attraction. A minimum level of comfort and trust needs to be established (connection triggers) before a full close can happen with most women.
Attraction triggers for men are centered around the woman’s looks. Most notably youth and beauty. However, for high value men, the abundance of physically attractive women prompts him to look for other things such as personality, promiscuity, ambition, tendency for nurture, among other things that women need to develop in addition to their physical beauty.

[RedMarxist]

dammit! ya so as you can see I'm surrounded by ignorant Christians.

I never got the chance to IDK date her really or get to know her better because things got in my way, + I told you[same girl] about all that crap she had to deal with + it was so sudden and out of no where, in terms of her flirting. last time was, get this, like the last day of school. Tool Late. :crying:

If I most likely see her again I wonder how she will react. I guess I will just be her friend unless she still likes me, well I guess she still could[wishful thinking?]

it sucks being surround by evangelicals. the last thing I wanna do is buy a bunch of harry potter, then burn the books, thus making money for JK Rowling.

[Dogs On Acid]

dammit! ya so as you can see I'm surrounded by ignorant Christians.

I never got the chance to IDK date her really or get to know her better because things got in my way, + I told you[same girl] about all that crap she had to deal with + it was so sudden and out of no where, in terms of her flirting. last time was, get this, like the last day of school. Tool Late. :crying:

If I most likely see her again I wonder how she will react. I guess I will just be her friend unless she still likes me, well I guess she still could[wishful thinking?]

it sucks being surround by evangelicals. the last thing I wanna do is buy a bunch of harry potter, then burn the books, thus making money for JK Rowling.

Oh and 1 word of advice, don't cling to a girl, and never, ever think "she is the one". It makes you needy, it's not attractive to other women and will get you nowhere in a relationship.

One of the most attractive things about a guy is not running after a girl, it's having a girl running after you. It's all about status and personality.

Edit: This conversation is off-topic. If you want any more advice send me a PM.

[Leftsolidarity]

The only reason you consider yourself Christian is because your parents are. It's a kind of indoctrination. If you were born in Saudi Arabia, chances are you would be Muslim, for the same reason, parents.

Truth is you are probably agnostic, or possibly atheist, but never actually took the idea seriously.


This is how I was for a few years while living with my mom. I was basically just a deist who believed jesus existed and didn't like organized religion. Then I realized that it was just indoctrination and was all I knew so I became agnostic. I was agnostic for like a month before I realized that was stupid and I should make up my mind on whether I believe or not so I became it atheist. I was actually scared for awhile that I was like now doomed to hell or something:laugh:. I got over it and now I'm a happy little atheist.

This whole situation did get me kicked out of my mom's house though so maybe if any of you lose your faith don't let anyone know if they are crazy evangelicals or catholics. (My dad still says im Roman Catholic. He says it's a family thing not a choice :rolleyes:)

[Dogs On Acid]

This whole situation did get me kicked out of my mom's house though so maybe if any of you lose your faith don't let anyone know if they are crazy evangelicals or catholics. (My dad still says im Roman Catholic. He says it's a family thing not a choice :rolleyes:)

I prefer to be kicked out than to live with Religious nuts. I've been kicked out before for other reasons, it was refreshing.

The first thing I would do is squat the house next door.

[Leftsolidarity]

I prefer to be kicked out than to live with Religious nuts. I've been kicked out before for other reasons, it was refreshing.

The first thing I would do is squat the house next door.

Yeah my mom kicked my out a few times. Mostly for stuff like "listening to devil's music :laugh::laugh::laugh:" and shit like that. It was sort of nice to be out of there haha

(wow way off the topic the OP started sorry)

[RedMarxist]

no its cool. Ya, my parents aren't that radical. Rock and roll is cool with them. My family loves Rock.

Its upsetting knowing that Christians pray for you, despite the fact that you don't believe in God. What does it do? nothing I suppose. She[my mom] told me she worries about my soul, but how can "I" worry if a soul does not exist? I feel bad that she/my family feels that way, so I feel as if I have to stay Christian to make them not worry.

[Leftsolidarity]

no its cool. Ya, my parents aren't that radical. Rock and roll is cool with them. My family loves Rock.

Its upsetting knowing that Christians pray for you, despite the fact that you don't believe in God. What does it do? nothing I suppose. She[my mom] told me she worries about my soul, but how can "I" worry if a soul does not exist? I feel bad that she/my family feels that way, so I feel as if I have to stay Christian to make them not worry.

Just lie to them and tell them that you are but you don't need to personally believe that nonsense. Going along with their game won't really hurt and lets them sleep better at night and honestly I wish I did more to be nicer to my mother when I was still able to see her, you might feel the same someday. If you do want them to know your true beliefs though put in a friendly way such as "If there is a God I know he loves me and knows I'm just doing what I think is right. He would have a plan for me." Play into their christianity to get them to accept you.

[Dogs On Acid]

Just lie to them and tell them that you are but you don't need to personally believe that nonsense. Going along with their game won't really hurt and lets them sleep better at night and honestly I wish I did more to be nicer to my mother when I was still able to see her, you might feel the same someday. If you do want them to know your true beliefs though put in a friendly way such as "If there is a God I know he loves me and knows I'm just doing what I think is right. He would have a plan for me." Play into their christianity to get them to accept you.

I won't lie to anyone about my beliefs, family or not... I am myself and if people don't like it they can piss off. And if your parents are hostile towards you due to difference in opinion, then they are the assholes, not you!

My family is capitalist, it doesn't bother me. I'm communist, why does it bother them?

[RedMarxist]

I'd never lie either. I admitted I was a Communist. When I first old them, they laughed. But eventually the had to come to grips with.

My mom and dad just burst into uncontrollable laughter when I said I was a Communist. They could not believe that someone, especially their son and an American, would want to be a communist.

To Them "Communism" is Stalin, Pol Pot, and Red Terror. To me it is freedom. freedom from this shitty system falling apart in Europe and in the world.

My parents were in SHOCK when I told them about the Nepalese Revolution, The Indian Revolution, and the Philippine Revolution

They said "oh well I thought communism was dead, Guess we were wrong"


Good news everyone(they should call this the random conversation thread)


The central committee meeting of the ‘Unified’ Communist Party of Nepal (Maoist) resumed on Sunday. But the meeting was postponed 15 minutes after Puspa Kamal Dahal ‘Prachanda’ tabled his document concerning ‘peace and constitution’.
Nowadays, Prachanda, who ruled the party well over 20 years, has faced formidable challenge from revolutionary leaders and workers. Many cadres want to clip Dahal’s wings in the party and curtail his role, because he has already abandoned party’s structured policies. He has repeatedly violated party’s decisions and collective understanding, which has been reflected on various occasions and on various issues. Prachanda has treated the party organization like his personal property. He, therefore, is no longer the party leader, but the leader of a small faction and clique comprising some of his henchmen.
Decentralization of power is the main subject of debate in the current situation. Recently, Mohan Baidhya and Baburam Bhattarai factions in the party have reached a political understanding on issues concerning decentralization of power and other tactical issues. This has created strong ripples within and outside the party. Interestingly and dramatically, general secretary of the party Ram Bahadur Thapa ‘ Badal, who in the past always supported Puspa Kamal Dahal, has now sided with ‘Baidhya-Bhattarai’ faction, which should be taken into note that a new equation and change is being developed in the party.
There are, definitely, plenty of curiosities and questions concerning this alliance. The new equation and alliance in the Maoist party has concerned everyone in the country including media and intelligentsia. The media have covered this issue with high prominence and greater degree of importance. Analysts have their own views—most of whom have dubbed these developments as the beginning of decline of Dahal’s power and prowess in the party and also outside.
Here are some of the newspaper headlines that tell a tale on the internal power struggle in the Maoist party: ‘Dahal’s decline in the party has begun’; ‘Hatred against Chairman Dahal is intensifying’; ‘Unholy alliance between Baidhya and Bhattarai’; and ‘Once invincible personality is now being challenged’; and so on. The media close to Dahal are making a big hue and cry. The objective analysis of the present situation and developments both within and outside the party are indicative of the fact that Prachanda has, indeed, failed in all fronts. Still his faction has begun alleging that the unity between Baidhya and Bhattarai was apolitical and unholy alliance.
This ‘alliance’ has raised a lot of questions in the revolutionary camp, as well. Revolutionary cadres have raised some ideological and political issues and questions. According to leaders belonging to Baidhya faction, authoritarian working style of Puspa Kamal Dahal compelled them to make an alliance with Bhattarai, which may be true to some extent. But, ideologically, Bhattarai is still pleading Trotskyism, ‘theory of productive forces’ and ‘neo–Marxism’. Bhattarai’s pro-Indian posture is yet another subject of concern for the revolutionaries, who are fighting for national liberation and against Indian expansionism and hegemony. Against this background, is it ideologically and politically correct for the revolutionaries to enter into alliance with him? These are the questions which are yet to be answered. According to leaders of Baidhya faction, ‘this is neither the ideological and political alliance nor is it a long-term one but an understanding to check authoritarian style and attitude of the party chief. This is just an understanding on some tactical issues, mainly aiming to check Dahal’s authoritarian role in the party. It is clear to us and we also want to make clear to all that there will be no compromise on ideology and revolution.’
We were optimistic that after Palungtar meeting changes would take place in the party and also on ideological front. But Prachanda showed his true face and real colour. He violated the decision made by the central committee. He suddenly and surprisingly made his arbitrary decision of disarming and surrendering the PLA in the name of integration. Prachanda’s abrupt and arbitrary decision shocked and worried the revolutionary camp and leaders in the party, which compelled comrade Kiran, leader of the revolutionary camp, to register notes of dissent one after another. The revelatory camp then began to create public opinion on their views and stance as well as the arbitrary and authoritarian decisions of party’s main leader. An 18 point note was prepared which clearly stated the points of differences with Dahal and it was distributed among the cadres and also disseminated massively.
‘It is Dahal, who compelled us to make an ‘alliance’ against his authoritarion attitudes.’ It may be justified at the present moment which aimed at checking the authoritarian tendency in the party, but it by no means would solve the ideological questions that are being raised in the party. This is also not a long–term solution. It is still not sure the party would take correct decisions and move towards correct direction even after the decentralization of power. Ideologically, politically and organizationally, the party has already been ruined and corrupted. This type of party organization is not likely to achieve its goal. Any kinds of cosmetic changes would be worthless and would not serve the real purpose of the party. It would be like taking painkiller when a patient has developed a tumor inside the body and needs a surgery. So this type of cosmetic changes and patch up would not cure the disease that the party has suffered. The party now needs rectification and a total revamping and reshuffle. If we want to build a Bolsevik type of party, we, first of all, have to solve ideological questions. In the absence of revolutionary line, a strong party organization and a dynamic leadership, we can do nothing to achieve the revolutionary goal.
‘Save the revolution’ must be our slogan. It means the continuation of the revolution. It means sharpening of the two line struggle–the ideological struggle. Then we must take some bold decisions. We must keep in mind that ‘right to rebel’ is people’s fundamental right.
that is right. the Chairman of the Nepalese Unified Communist Party is being challenged politically. Whats more is he is losing power, in a bid by other party members to decentralize the party.

I especially like:


The party now needs rectification and a total revamping and reshuffle. If we want to build a Bolsevik type of party, we, first of all, have to solve ideological questions. In the absence of revolutionary line, a strong party organization and a dynamic leadership, we can do nothing to achieve the revolutionary goal.and


‘Save the revolution’ must be our slogan. It means the continuation of the revolution.
just thought I'd get this out so people who have not seen it can see this nice article. Maybe all hope in Nepal is not lost after all? thoughts?

[Leftsolidarity]

I won't lie to anyone about my beliefs, family or not

I never lie to people about my beliefs either but it does cause problems. haha

My family are very religious, racist, and are on the verge of being tea-baggers. It's quite funny listening to my dad talk about politics like he knows everything. hahaha

[Dogs On Acid]

I never lie to people about my beliefs either but it does cause problems. haha

My family are very religious, racist, and are on the verge of being tea-baggers. It's quite funny listening to my dad talk about politics like he knows everything. hahaha

Yep, like my dad saying "communism doesn't work because people don't own anything, Communists like you would take away my television, I won't allow that"

[RedMarxist]

out of curiosity, what kind of racists are they?

my #1 favorite anti-communist slogan of all time: "Communism can never work because of Human nature."

Its funny because I recall Engels directly addressed this issue in Origins Of The Family

99.9% of "anti-communists" have most likely never read Engels or Marx. especially your dad.


So, what do you guys, just out of curiosity once more, think of that article on Nepal I reproduced. On Nepal itself? do you think the revolution can be fulfilled?

[Leftsolidarity]

out of curiosity, what kind of racists are they?

my #1 favorite anti-communist slogan of all time: "Communism can never work because of Human nature."

Its funny because I recall Engels directly addressed this issue in Origins Of The Family

99.9% of "anti-communists" have most likely never read Engels or Marx. especially your dad.


My dad is racist although he doesn't think he is. He has pre-determined assumptions about people based on their skin color. My step-mom and her family are pretty overtly racist (they are high-class yuppies) and talk down about "the coloreds" in the "bad" parts of the city.

That's a good one because it is REALLY easy to shoot down in an argument too.

About the Nepal thing, I'm not sure.

[RedMarxist]

did you read the article?

[Leftsolidarity]

did you read the article?

Honestly, no. haha

I'm busy sewwing at the moment and I have never followed the Nepal movement in the first place.

[RedMarxist]

anyone? do you think the Nepalese revolution can continue. An alliance has been formed by party members against the chairman, who seek to check his power and continue the revolution while creating a bolshevik type party. That is the gist of it.

[Red_Struggle]

anyone? do you think the Nepalese revolution can continue. An alliance has been formed by party members against the chairman, who seek to check his power and continue the revolution while creating a bolshevik type party. That is the gist of it.

There was no reason for them to lay down weapons in the first place. They had the majority of the population's support and instead of establishing a DOP, they gave up fighting and formed a coalition with bourgeois parties.

[RedMarxist]

‘Save the revolution’ must be our slogan. It means the continuation of the revolution. It means sharpening of the two line struggle–the ideological struggle. Then we must take some bold decisions. We must keep in mind that ‘right to rebel’ is people’s fundamental right.



well, now that there are those in the party who seek to end the autocracy imposed by the party chairman, what do you think there chances are of "continuing the revolution?" and forming "a Bolshevik-style party"?

Do they still have an army? how would they get the people to wage war against the government, if that is what they mean by a continuation of the revolution?

could they have a revolution without a PLA, instead with sheer support of the people?

Can anyone answer these questions. I'm having trouble wrapping my head around it all.

[khad]

Hi RedMarxist.

Now you're starting to see what most people are like. They have been indoctrinated with a world view from an early age and would rather die than admit it could be wrong or even incomplete. Talk with your history buff... It sounds like she might be willing to learn.
You two might well be the only students there with anything like an open mind!

For everyone else, diving right into Anna Louise Strong or whatever is a bad idea.


Remember that most people consider their world view to be absolute truth. Attacking it directly probably won't work.

Lately, I've been studying Stalin. He was probably the best committee person ever and could get a whole country full of dissenting ideas to agree on what needed to be done.

Learn from Stalin! His number one attribute? Listening.

Good luck,
PV


the fuck
See, this comes from not having lived in the socialist world.

Stalin was actually famous for his ability to hear people out. One of his favorite phrases, one that he actually said instead of merely attributed to him by bourgeois western historians, was "let's talk it over." He'd always give his subordinates a full hearing, even if he didn't take their advice in the end.

Even if he didn't, he made it look like he cared, truly.