How do you feel about Cuba's ban on professional sports?

[RedSonRising]

Hello all. I've been interested for some time in the approach that the Cuban government takes on sports, and their restriction on professional competition. They have a very strong amateur and olympic talent pool of athletes, but they rarely get to compete on a global scale and excel as individual participants. My guess is that it avoids the income of foreign money falling into the hands of individuals with so much of the population having so much less, but I'm not sure this practice is all that effective. Recently, a wave of top Cuban boxers fled Cuba in order to compete professionally in Boxing. Their stories have peaked my interest, and I was wondering if any of you guys could provide any information or just give your thoughts on the matter, as it doesn't seem like a cut-and-dry dilemma.

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[Dr Mindbender]

Fuck, think i just heard the twang of the thread snapping that is my last iota of hope that Cuba has any vaguely redeeming socialist characteristics left.

I mean what the fuck, why stop at sports? Why not ban professional anythings?

[RedSonRising]

Fuck, think i just heard the twang of the thread snapping that is my last iota of hope that Cuba has any vaguely redeeming socialist characteristics left.

I mean what the fuck, why stop at sports? Why not ban professional anythings?

Well they still provide an excellent standard of living, and considering it has limited productive capabilities, one can guess it's because the workers have an influence on the way production is executed and distributed. It's hard to have both a ruling class and an equitable redistribution of wealth that gives regionally superior indicators and statistics in a third world setting. There are a few resources I could point you to (as well as my personal experience visiting the island) that show the model isn't a failure of working class revolution; while recent reforms are an alarming sign of retreat, their fundamental structures of popular socialism remain for now.

In any case, this specific part of Cuban politics is unique in that the ban prevents a strong connection between individuals who may become able to amass huge amounts of wealth abroad, and the capitalist world abroad. I'm looking to increase my knowledge on the subject, as well as examine the complicated reasons behind the move, and it's positive and negative effects.

From Wiki:

Post Revolutionary Cuba prides itself on its success in sports. What the Revolution has done for sports in Cuba can be summed up by the phrase “Sport for All.” Fidel Castro believes that sports should be “the right of the people,” not the right of the wealthy. He compared Pre-Revolutionary and Post-Revolutionary Cuba by explaining that while before only the wealthy could enjoy sports, now everyone can enjoy sports. He also explains that talent in sport comes from hard work, and a strong will. These are not traits the naturally wealthy have; rather these are traits that working class people have. In modern Cuban society, sport and physical education begin when a child is only 45 days old. The mothers are taught to exercise their children's limbs and massage their muscles to keep them healthy. Children are taught at a later age to play games that resemble physical exercise. These ideas were the basis for the modern sports program in Cuba, and clearly it is working. Considering that Cuba’s population is only around 11 million (the size of just a couple US cities), Cuba has a demanding 7.5 to 0.70 lead against the US in the number of sports medals won per million occupants.

....

Cuba’s new sports program also began to pay for itself when many of the best players were allowed to retire early and take up position on apposing countries teams. These other countries wanted to hire them because of Cuba’s fantastic success in training winning athletes. These players would earn a large salary, and about 80% of it would go directly to the Cuban government. The players would then pocket the other 20%, which was more than what the average Cuban in Cuba was earning. It is worthy to note that Fidel abolished professional sport in Cuba in the beginning of the Revolution. What this meant was that all leagues and teams are considered amateur. This concept was imbedded in the ideals of the revolution, that everyone should be equal. However this outflow of the best athletes and trainers began to take its toll. In 1997 Cuba ended its 10-year, 152-game, winning-streak at the baseball International Cup by losing to Japan 11 to 2. To fix this problem, Cuba began to offer material incentives like houses and cars to the good players to keep them from playing for other countries. These offerings weren’t to completely prevent talented Cuban’s from leaving the country instead they were there to keep the system balanced. By the year 2007 there were 50 nations around the world who employed several hundred Cuban sports trainers and coaches.


It seems to me that given the still limited material wealth of the average Cuban, the State chooses to favor Egalitarianism over "meritocratic" rewards given to individual athletes. Perhaps if the State had a more flourishing economy at their disposal, communities might be able to go beyond the essential needs of the citizen, and surplus wealth wouldn't cause such a social divide that would surely lead to myriad dilemmas within the system.

[Jose Gracchus]

Professional sports in capitalism is almost invariably an excuse to sell shit.

[Bandito]

Money fucked up football.
Money fucked up boxing.

Money fucked up virtually all sports, and every true fan out there is is against "modern" sports, not knowing that professional sports is what he/she is against to begin with.

I vaguely remember sports in former Yugoslavia that were semi-professional. Boxing, for example, was never allowed to be a professional sport, only amateur. Football and other sports, on the other hand, were, to say, semi-professional, with players having a ban of leaving the country to play abroad until they turn 27 years of age. The result of that policy was amazing. Yugoslavia, a small country, had tons of great athletes, domestic competitions were very, very good and the national teams won medals in virtually every sports there is. Basketball, football, tennis, volleyball, water polo, handball, boxing, you name it.

Professional sports actually fuck up the sports.

[Principia Ethica]

Well they still provide an excellent standard of living, and considering it has limited productive capabilities, one can guess it's because the workers have an influence on the way production is executed and distributed.

I'm just curious, have you lived there? I have friends that go often and they go for the "bang-for-the-buck" factor. I don't know what "excellent standard of living" qualifies for in other countries but when fat, crotchety, old white men go somewhere because the "pussy flows at bargain basement prices" and "every woman married with children or not" are considered for "sale". . .basically a situation where anyone will "holla" for a dolla, I *seriously* have to question the "excellent standard of living" concept.

I'll personally refrain from categorizing cuba as somewhere that has "excellent standard of living." I also don't think a country with "excellent standard of living" would have droves of people willing to risk their lives on rickety boats to come to a shit hole like amerika.

[RedSonRising]

I'm just curious, have you lived there? I have friends that go often and they go for the "bang-for-the-buck" factor. I don't know what "excellent standard of living" qualifies for in other countries but when fat, crotchety, old white men go somewhere because the "pussy flows at bargain basement prices" and "every woman married with children or not" are considered for "sale". . .basically a situation where anyone will "holla" for a dolla, I *seriously* have to question the "excellent standard of living" concept.

I'll personally refrain from categorizing cuba as somewhere that has "excellent standard of living." I also don't think a country with "excellent standard of living" would have droves of people willing to risk their lives on rickety boats to come to a shit hole like amerika.

Well first world countries still have a disproportionate amount of opportunities in the job market, especially because of the larger middle classes that develop because of the advanced markets and professional demands by the bourgeoisie. You are always going to have immigration from the third world to the first world until powerful regional blocks truly socialize the means of production and form a base of strong trade relations, destroying the colonial divisions in wealth and power. The standard of living is regionally exceptional; that is, the literacy and health rates exceed the average standards of almost every other Latin American country. That does not mean people do not struggle and live in a bubble unaffected by the world capitalist system.

Prostitution on the individual level is certainly a problem in Cuba, and worldwide recession has reached the island and made things very difficult for certain people. Everyone gets their basic needs met in terms of education, literacy, and minimum nutrition, but everyone wants the best possible for their family and the island simply can't do it alone in terms of providing this. I'm not sure how many perverted rich white men you personally talk to that have gone there for such activities, but when I visited i was able to see both the material lacking in the country (unkempt buildings, sidewalks, etc.) and the intelligence and stability of the people available through the system. I reccommend the visit to anyone, the scenery and culture is absolutely beautiful.

[Principia Ethica]

Well first world countries still have a disproportionate amount of opportunities in the job market, especially because of the larger middle classes that develop because of the advanced markets and professional demands by the bourgeoisie. You are always going to have immigration from the third world to the first world until powerful regional blocks truly socialize the means of production and form a base of strong trade relations, destroying the colonial divisions in wealth and power. The standard of living is regionally exceptional; that is, the literacy and health rates exceed the average standards of almost every other Latin American country. That does not mean people do not struggle and live in a bubble unaffected by the world capitalist system.

Prostitution on the individual level is certainly a problem in Cuba, and worldwide recession has reached the island and made things very difficult for certain people. Everyone gets their basic needs met in terms of education, literacy, and minimum nutrition, but everyone wants the best possible for their family and the island simply can't do it alone in terms of providing this. I'm not sure how many perverted rich white men you personally talk to that have gone there for such activities, but when I visited i was able to see both the material lacking in the country (unkempt buildings, sidewalks, etc.) and the intelligence and stability of the people available through the system. I reccommend the visit to anyone, the scenery and culture is absolutely beautiful.

You raise some good points.

For me, the jury is out as far as the ban on the professional sports thing.

I used to date a defense lobbyist (don't shoot me) and he and his buddies on the Hill basically say the Cuba is a shit hole as far as the non tourist areas (kinda like Jamaica) and that the areas designated for tourists are absolutely beautiful. . . and cheap. And that husbands turn a blind eye to their wives making money off tourists (you know that kind of money I mean.) They thought this just so hilarious. $20 all night long for the caliber of woman as far as looks that they would pay thousands for all night in the US. I found it disheartening.

I found it disgusting that they thought it funny that they could spend the whole night at her house knowing that the husband had ushered himself and the kids elsewhere for the night. Family pictures and toys all around the house so they knew there was a family in the picture. Yeah dudes, hilarious.

So this is why I think that the standard of living might not be so high. I don't fault the people who do this out of need at all by the way. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

[RedSonRising]

You raise some good points.

For me, the jury is out as far as the ban on the professional sports thing.

I used to date a defense lobbyist (don't shoot me) and he and his buddies on the Hill basically say the Cuba is a shit hole as far as the non tourist areas (kinda like Jamaica) and that the areas designated for tourists are absolutely beautiful. . . and cheap. And that husbands turn a blind eye to their wives making money off tourists (you know that kind of money I mean.) They thought this just so hilarious. $20 all night long for the caliber of woman as far as looks that they would pay thousands for all night in the US. I found it disheartening.

I found it disgusting that they thought it funny that they could spend the whole night at her house knowing that the husband had ushered himself and the kids elsewhere for the night. Family pictures and toys all around the house so they knew there was a family in the picture. Yeah dudes, hilarious.

So this is why I think that the standard of living might not be so high. I don't fault the people who do this out of need at all by the way. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.


Definitely a sad sad tale that reflects the struggle that some have to go through. All the same, I recommend the trip. It's far from a shithole and the people are admirable honest individuals.

[RedSonRising]

Money fucked up football.
Money fucked up boxing.

Money fucked up virtually all sports, and every true fan out there is is against "modern" sports, not knowing that professional sports is what he/she is against to begin with.

I vaguely remember sports in former Yugoslavia that were semi-professional. Boxing, for example, was never allowed to be a professional sport, only amateur. Football and other sports, on the other hand, were, to say, semi-professional, with players having a ban of leaving the country to play abroad until they turn 27 years of age. The result of that policy was amazing. Yugoslavia, a small country, had tons of great athletes, domestic competitions were very, very good and the national teams won medals in virtually every sports there is. Basketball, football, tennis, volleyball, water polo, handball, boxing, you name it.

Professional sports actually fuck up the sports.

Interesting details, thank you! Do you know what the rules were for amateur boxing in Yugoslavia?

[Bandito]

Interesting details, thank you! Do you know what the rules were for amateur boxing in Yugoslavia?

The boxers were obliged to wear head protection, and the winner was based on a number of clean punches landed on specific parts of the opponent. It was maximum of four rounds for fight, but mostly 3 rounds consisting of 2 minutes per round. It only played under the official tournaments, and not blood-thirsty, manager arranged fights for profit. The most prestige came, of course, on the Olympics, who still hold amateur boxing as the only acceptable form of that sport.

When it comes to Yugoslavia, most prominent fighter was a Croat named Mate Parlov, who won the Gold medal at the 1974 Olympics and also won the World championship in Havana later that year. At the end of his career, he was picked by the pros that he "only wins with head gear on", and than he turned professional, but was kicked out of the national team for doing so. He was the WBC light-heavyweight of the world immediately after he turned pro.

[pastradamus]

Interesting details, thank you! Do you know what the rules were for amateur boxing in Yugoslavia?


I hate the use of this term "professional". I boxed as an amateur when I was younger and I feel to call the effort and preparation that goes into the sport as being "amateur" is a bit insulting.

But all that aside, in Ireland where we have the Gaelic Athletic Association (GAA) - the governing body of Gaelic Football and Hurling (our two national games) they own and control 8 of the top 50 biggest stadiums in Europe, including the third biggest stadium Croke Park as well as a massive infrastructure of clubs and associations centred around the sport, and in a country where Soccer and Rugby clubs financially struggle every day the GAA clubs never do - and this is all in complete spite of the fact that none of its players get paid. Its a completely "amateur" sport. The sheer dedication shown by its players to train 5 days a week and then play a game on sunday is amazing and the sport is healthier than ever.

When somebody is paid to play a particular sport it unfortunetly drags with it a lot of corporate sponsors and money grabbing incentives which drive a wedge between fans and its players as the player becomes more motivated by fame and finance then by entertaining fans.

However, the one thing I will say about professional sports is that it allows the sports person more time to train and participate in the sport and so will increase the quality and entertainment value of it. One example is Rugby. Since becoming professional it has boomed and its players have switched from a bunch of part-times with beer bellies to a bunch of well-trained athletes. So I think there is than black and white to this argument.

[pastradamus]

Just to add that despite cuba's ban on professional boxing it still manages to produce people such as Felix Savon - a three-time Olympic Gold Medalist with a record of 326-21. The most remarkable this about him must be the fact that he refused to fight Mike Tyson in a pro bout a number of years ago which would have been worth millions to him.

jhi5rTgYu70 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMto2zQIBUY)

[Dr Mindbender]

I still fail to see how the curtailing of sports in Cuba as a viable career option benefits anyone, least the Cuban people.

I don't think North Korea's participation in the last world cup did them any harm.

[RedSonRising]

I still fail to see how the curtailing of sports in Cuba as a viable career option benefits anyone, least the Cuban people.

I don't think North Korea's participation in the last world cup did them any harm.

The fear that they might leave once made available to foreign sports institutions, I suppose. Not that some aren't already.

It also creates a huge conundrum when you have athletes who have access to the resources of the US and international incomes, which immediately make them able to afford a higher standard of living. They may not be able to own exploitative property, but they would be at such an advantage that would seem a barbaric inequality under the current system and the conditions of the country's economy. That's what I think, anyway. Wiki says the offer material incentives to athletes without giving them access to capital or large amounts of hard currency.

[Black Sheep]

Being an athlete isn't a profession... It doesn't produce anything,doesn't advance scientific knowledge,doesn't provide services,doesn't teach anything.

Sports is a HOBBY,not a job or a day's work.Jesus.
Of course professional sports should be "banned" (like advertisers and bankers).

[Sensible Socialist]

Being an athlete isn't a profession... It doesn't produce anything,doesn't advance scientific knowledge,doesn't provide services,doesn't teach anything.

Sports is a HOBBY,not a job or a day's work.Jesus.
Of course professional sports should be "banned" (like advertisers and bankers).
Would you apply the same standard to an actor? After all, it doesn't produce anything tangible. What actors and professional athetes provide is a show, really. They put on a performance for an audience. For that performance to reach the levels we see today in many sports does require training on a full-time daily basis.

Go watch Lionel Messi or Cristiano Ronaldo dribble down the field, spinning past defenders, and placing a perfect ball in the upper left corner, and then you tell me that professional sports don't provide anything. It's art, plain and simple.

[Black Sheep]

Well,i would argue that an actor/musician etc aren't professions either.
The very least, they shouldn't be considered as such, during the building of socialism , at the hard times.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

I still fail to see how the curtailing of sports in Cuba as a viable career option benefits anyone, least the Cuban people.

I don't think North Korea's participation in the last world cup did them any harm.

It's actually a very principled, Socialistic position to take.

The idea being that in a Socialist society, people should be paid the value of the labour they provide, whereas we can see that in Capitalist society, there is no equilibration between the productivity of sportspeople and those in the arts and their remuneration.

Sport, as Fidel Castro has rightly said, should be enjoyed by all, and Cuba's policy on sport gives people the opportunity to do this. This isn't to say that Cuba is a failure when it comes to sport. You only have to look at their baseball stadiums and the interest that sport draws, and their olympic performances post-revolution to see that they are a very successful sporting nation in many sports the play, relative to their size and development.

Your point is only correct if you value success as the ability of an individual to make an inordinate amount of money that bears no relation to his/her productive talent, which I would hope any Socialist would not.

[RedSonRising]

Well, actors and artists and athletes provide an intangible service that is considered highly valuable. I feel that if individual laborers pay to see them with their own money and they're competing at the highest level of competition possible, then I think they should be entitled to some of that for an income. As was said, it's hard to be a top athlete and do anything else without hampering you.

[pastradamus]

Athletes, like Actors, Writers, Singers and Artists produce something cultural which benefits society. I personally see this as something which is important in life. Culture breaks up the monotany of life. So by going to a football game, play or listening to a concert not only enhances the life of the individual but society also.

To suggest that sports does not produce economic wealth is simply untrue when you take into account that football revenue alone in Italy is worth a large percentage of the economic wealth of that country and I remember seeing a few years ago when all Italian football games were suspended for a while, a decrese in the Italian economy occured.

[Coggeh]

Incase people forgot socialists supported the calls for football to be made a professional game. One should not be punished economically for playing the game they love. If its the case people are arguing it shouldn't then artists, musicians etc should all have their pay scrapped. Football is the most popular game on earth, its history is what sets it apart from all other sporting cultures in that it directly stems from working class culture and struggle.

Also even arguing that players should have a reduction in pay(under capitalism) i would not support. Players are what create the wealth, they score the goals, bring in the fans etc etc if their wages were to be cut it would just mean more profit for shareholders and executives etc. Obviously this wouldn't be the case in socialism but we should still maintain under socialism football should still be a professional game.

[Coggeh]

Back to topic anyway. I would completely disagree with Cuba's policy on professional games. Especially when it comes to boxing, the wealth boxers create by putting their bodies on the line for cultural entertainment they should be rewarded quite generously in my view, most of the money involved in professional boxing is a product of capitalism, sponsorships, tv rights, organisers etc etc leeches in other words. This would be completely done away with under socialism, fans would be able to easily afford to go to those fights which are seriously overpriced now, but also the revenue generated once other fees such as workers in the stadium etc should go to the boxers, trainers etc themselves

[RedSonRising]

Back to topic anyway. I would completely disagree with Cuba's policy on professional games. Especially when it comes to boxing, the wealth boxers create by putting their bodies on the line for cultural entertainment they should be rewarded quite generously in my view, most of the money involved in professional boxing is a product of capitalism, sponsorships, tv rights, organisers etc etc leeches in other words. This would be completely done away with under socialism, fans would be able to easily afford to go to those fights which are seriously overpriced now, but also the revenue generated once other fees such as workers in the stadium etc should go to the boxers, trainers etc themselves

That seems fair. Boxers specifically go through a lot, and the reward merits lie there stronger than any other sport. But what if the country is in a situation like Cuba's? Socialism in a third world country with consistent pressure from the United States, with foreign enterprise looming and threatening to create imbalances and inequality in the country. What should Cuba do to balance an egalitarian system with proper handling of sports?

[Black Sheep]

To suggest that sports does not produce economic wealth is simply untrue when you take into account that football revenue alone in Italy is worth a large percentage of the economic wealth of that country and I remember seeing a few years ago when all Italian football games were suspended for a while, a decrese in the Italian economy occured.
While i agree i was a little... too materialist about the culture they offer, this ^ is irrelevant.The amount of income something provides is irrelevant to its value, especially under capitalism, where loads of people pay their hard earned cash to go and watch crap, crap that is transformed into luxuries by capitalism.

I consider today's football MADNESS as , if not a form of crap, a common mundane sport that has been transformed into "the kickass event of the year".

Like a song goes,free translation:
"22 sasquatches running after a ball, interests all around milking the fly
they overprice each game, in order to sell seaweed for silk ribbons"

Om noam noam.
VLbckGjuYpk

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Athletes, like Actors, Writers, Singers and Artists produce something cultural which benefits society. I personally see this as something which is important in life. Culture breaks up the monotany of life. So by going to a football game, play or listening to a concert not only enhances the life of the individual but society also.

To suggest that sports does not produce economic wealth is simply untrue when you take into account that football revenue alone in Italy is worth a large percentage of the economic wealth of that country and I remember seeing a few years ago when all Italian football games were suspended for a while, a decrese in the Italian economy occured.

Don't get me wrong, first of all, i'm not one of these dry 'Socialist realism' types. I love sports, the arts and so on and support it to the hilt.

My point is more of a basic Marxist economic one.

In a Capitalist world, yes, sportspeople [let us say] attract wealth. But let us be clear about this. The wealth is often not 'created' out of thin air. It often comes from the pockets of foolhardy fans like you and I. Look at football, a classic example. The hyperinflation that exists in European football, and the transfer of wealth from non-wealthy fans to already hyper-wealthy footballers and owners is a case in point of the mirage of wealth creation.

I would also rather that people were paid a fair wage for their days cultural work, and that in this situation people like me can participate in grassroots sport, rather than having the mirage of wealth creation lead to a transfer of wealth from ordinary folk to a tiny clique of grossly overpaid 'superstars', whilst lower-level sportspeople and amateurs struggle to survive and cannot get funding for basic facilities.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Players are what create the wealth, they score the goals, bring in the fans etc etc if their wages were to be cut it would just mean more profit for shareholders and executives etc.

Why does it matter if it is John Terry or Roman Abramovich who receives tens of millions of pounds out of mine and yours pockets? Materially it makes no difference, when neither of them deserves more than a Nurse or a Firefighter, surely.

I somewhat agree with you on the Professional v Amateur thing, especially in regards to already developed sports in already developed markets, like Football in Europe. But we have to understand that there has to be a stop to the gross flow of money from fans to the actual sportspeople, as well as the greedy directors and shareholders.

[Coggeh]

While i agree i was a little... too materialist about the culture they offer, this ^ is irrelevant.The amount of income something provides is irrelevant to its value, especially under capitalism, where loads of people pay their hard earned cash to go and watch crap, crap that is transformed into luxuries by capitalism.

I consider today's football MADNESS as , if not a form of crap, a common mundane sport that has been transformed into "the kickass event of the year".

Like a song goes,free translation:
"22 sasquatches running after a ball, interests all around milking the fly
they overprice each game, in order to sell seaweed for silk ribbons"

VLbckGjuYpk
Ya and i don't like jazz, 99% of art, classical music, books that are fiction or non political. But i don't doubt there cultural significance, or base my political resolve on my tendency to like them. Fact is the world cup final is the most watch event in history. Fact is football is the most played and most followed sport in the world.

Also, unlike most other recreational things, football has its roots directly in the class struggle. Why do you think all English teams play there games at 3pm on a saturday? because most football teams were formed out of work teams Arsenal (the gunners) etc, they fought for a half day on saturday just to play there matches, employers and capitalists tried to ban football for years until it became so popular they realised they couldn't and instead sought profit in it.

Also since were using videos:
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iQ4jtmHaFHA
FyhqolEKQ3g
Show me any other sport with fans like this.

[Coggeh]

Why does it matter if it is John Terry or Roman Abramovich who receives tens of millions of pounds out of mine and yours pockets? Materially it makes no difference, when neither of them deserves more than a Nurse or a Firefighter, surely.

I somewhat agree with you on the Professional v Amateur thing, especially in regards to already developed sports in already developed markets, like Football in Europe. But we have to understand that there has to be a stop to the gross flow of money from fans to the actual sportspeople, as well as the greedy directors and shareholders.
I agree completely. I agree that working class fans are being priced out of going to games to support the team they have grown up with. The point is a pay cut in players wages won't amount to changing that. What has to be changed is capitalism's grip on football as a sport. There should be supporters ownership of each club, democratically elected people from the supporters to decide where the profits or money is placed. Ticket prices should be slashed down to where it is not just not a burden for working class people but very cheap for people to go games. We might think if there very cheap then there will be riots at man utd games or chelsea games but thats not true, the majority of teams out there can never even fill there stadium unless an extremely good team comes to town.

Capitalism is destroying the peoples game, a game derived from real class struggle, a game that has been turned into a distraction for many by the capitalist class. Its time to reclaim it rightfully for workers.

[Fulanito de Tal]

I was at a batting cage near the Jose Marti airport one time. The machine was sending the balls incredibly fast, but the batter was nailing them consistently. I was like, "Damn! These guys (Cuban people) can play some ball!" After talking to people in the cafe next to the cage, it turns out he was on the Industriales (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industriales)team. Still, he was at a batting cage and it was no big deal; he was just another person. I think it would be different in the US if a famous player were at a local batting cage.

Also, in Cuba, they call sports players in the US and like leagues mercenaries because the players typically go to the team that offers the best deal. The only things that are Miami about the Miami Heat the name and that most games are played there. In Cuba, you can only play for the team that represents your home. A person that lives in Santiago de Cuba can only play for the Santiago de Cuba team. So, when Santiago de Cuba plays Ciego de Avila, it really is those two areas playing each other.

[RedSonRising]

Also, in Cuba, they call sports players in the US and like leagues mercenaries because the players typically go to the team that offers the best deal. The only things that are Miami about the Miami Heat the name and that most games are played there. In Cuba, you can only play for the team that represents your home. A person that lives in Santiago de Cuba can only play for the Santiago de Cuba team. So, when Santiago de Cuba plays Ciego de Avila, it really is those two areas playing each other.

That's a pretty cool way to set up the teams, all politics about professional sports aside. I always find it awkward when Latin American players are being cheered by European fans for bringing their particular cultural region glory and pride, or baseball players from the west coast being cheered by east coast fans every time they score a run. Actual area vs area competition seems baddass.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

I agree completely. I agree that working class fans are being priced out of going to games to support the team they have grown up with. The point is a pay cut in players wages won't amount to changing that. What has to be changed is capitalism's grip on football as a sport. There should be supporters ownership of each club, democratically elected people from the supporters to decide where the profits or money is placed. Ticket prices should be slashed down to where it is not just not a burden for working class people but very cheap for people to go games. We might think if there very cheap then there will be riots at man utd games or chelsea games but thats not true, the majority of teams out there can never even fill there stadium unless an extremely good team comes to town.

Capitalism is destroying the peoples game, a game derived from real class struggle, a game that has been turned into a distraction for many by the capitalist class. Its time to reclaim it rightfully for workers.

I guess that it's immaterial to speculate on isolated policy responses to the problems in Premier League Football in England, for example, for two reasons:

In a post-Capitalist society, such Capitalist relations won't exist.
In a Capitalist society, such changes would never be effected anyway.

But if we were to be able to effect isolated changes to English football then the following would be a good start:

Gradual (say 3-5 year) reduction in highest wage (via a cap), down to something normal say 50-100k per year.

Maximum ticket price introduced at something more affordable.

All clubs must be at least 50% fan owned and fan trusts to have power of veto, with fan trusts holding legal ownership of the club, ground, players and so on.

Agents fees to be capped at 0.01% of the players' first year's wages. No agents fees from transfer fees to be allowed.

Clubs with a high revenue must invest a certain amount back into:
local charities/community projects
grassroots football around the country.

Transfer fees to be capped at the wage equivalent (in years) of 40 minus the age of the player. So the max transfer fee for a 25 year old offered a £100,000 per year contract is £1.5mln.

Obviously not 'revolutionary' policies, but would nonetheless bring football back to the working classes and, in the long term, improve the quality of footballer that we produce in this country, which is extremely important if our national game is to develop.