Dealing with apathy

[the Leftâ„¢]

Do any of you struggle with being more of an armchair scholar?

For me I love reading a ton of leftist theory, being able to describe the complex globalized economy we live in, or just raise some avant garde style questions that challenge the status quo. For me I enjoy being a leftist intellectual and I truely have a thirst for knowledge and a genuine curiosity about the world.

But sometimes being a leftist is depressing and can be offputting. A lot of people I know who are leftists are very defeatist and tend to come across as people who have "Given up" or are too cynical to actually get out in the world and make a difference.

So the question I pose to my comrades it this. How do you deal with the apathy, the hopelessness, the generally anxiety and despair accompanied with living in a capitalist society and a economic structure you find oppressive and unjust? Sometimes I just can't handle the trauma and feel uneasy about the world and resort to escapism-- video games, movies, etc.

So what do you to combat apathy and try to remain positive?

[Tablo]

I really don't know. I'm very apathetic and have no hope for socialism coming in my lifetime. So I mostly focus on helping with short term goals that I know are possible. Even the smallest of gains in the fight against the bourgeoisie are worthwhile.

[o well this is ok I guess]

I don't really care enough to combat apathy.
dohohohohohoho

[bcbm]

drinking

[Os Cangaceiros]

I usually just smoke a doob.

[Sensible Socialist]

I get off revleft. Honestly, being on here too long makes me feel no hope for any working-class advance. The people are here are depressing as hell. Smart and knowledgable, but depressing and very hopeless.

If you're ever feeling down about your own life, take a trip to a homeless shelter, or a soup kitchen, and realize that very few people have the ability to be a damn armchair scholar, as you call it. Personally, I detest armchair scholars, but to each his own, I guess.

[maylocnuocnano]

sometimes i can't do anything to combat apathy :(

[black magick hustla]

If you're ever feeling down about your own life, take a trip to a homeless shelter, or a soup kitchen, and realize that very few people have the ability to be a damn armchair scholar, as you call it. Personally, I detest armchair scholars, but to each his own, I guess.

thats a slippery slope dude. like i hate that argument. *u have it bad look at starving african childre*. but starving african childre might be better than people who are mentally ill, blind etc its a stupid argument dont use it please

[Sensible Socialist]

thats a slippery slope dude. like i hate that argument. *u have it bad look at starving african childre*. but starving african childre might be better than people who are mentally ill, blind etc its a stupid argument dont use it please
That's not the point. I'm tired of people feeling so down and depressed that the glorious revolution hasn't swept them off their feet and taken them out to dinner. This forum is quite representative of that: people who have become so damn jaded (I'm jaded, for different reasons) because they're not the Minister of Revolution. It's in those times, when people are depressed, that they should see what real depression feels like. They need to see that their little online depression doesn't amount to shit when it comes to the real world.

[Karp]

The best way to combat apathy is to listen to some inspiring leftist music. Just play the Internationale, Paul Robeson's version of the soviet anthem, or anything at all by Billy Bragg, and completely ignore the vast and terrible hopelessness of it all, at least for the duration of the song.

[Os Cangaceiros]

That's not the point. I'm tired of people feeling so down and depressed that the glorious revolution hasn't swept them off their feet and taken them out to dinner. This forum is quite representative of that: people who have become so damn jaded (I'm jaded, for different reasons) because they're not the Minister of Revolution. It's in those times, when people are depressed, that they should see what real depression feels like. They need to see that their little online depression doesn't amount to shit when it comes to the real world.

Clinical depression refers to an imbalance in brain chemistry, it's not a factor of how your life is going.

[Sensible Socialist]

Clinical depression refers to an imbalance in brain chemistry, it's not a factor of how your life is going.
I never referenced clinical depression. I used the word depressed in an oft-handed way.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Well, you did refer to "real depression"...

It's kind of a bad point anyway. How rich a country is does not equate to how happy it is...in some of those "happiness" surveys they do, countries in the "global south" like Colombia and Vietnam come out near the top, with the USA way down the list. Louisiana was ranked the happiest state in the USA, despite some extremely poor areas in northern Louisiana/southern Arkansas area, while states with larger economies like California and New York were some of the most depressed. etc.

[Revolutionary_Change]

how has no one suggested actually doing something to escape feeling impotent?

when I start feeling hopeless or trapped by society I try to do something politically positive: make a pamphlet, organize a meeting, or even just go talk to one of my house mates. One of capitalism's greatest strengths is its current monopoly on legitimacy in the public sphere. due to capital's control over the media education and employment, most people hardly ever engage with real socialist/communist/anarchist ideas. I think one easiest and ways to fight the system is just to bring these ideas into people's lives.

The revolutions spring from action.
whether I live to see it or not, I fight for socialism because it is what we as human beings deserve. If I can spend my entire life working to bring the end of capitalism even a day closer then it is time well spent.

[Zav]

Short answer: I read.
Long answer:
Several years ago, I was naïve and oh so ambitious. When I realised that the Revolution wasn't really around the corner and that I could not reason with random people on the street corner about the superiority of Communism and the many faults of Capitalism, I became depressed, and that led to a general apathy towards everything, especially the Leftist movement(s). Eventually I decided that if I couldn't change the world, I'd just change a small part of it, and damn it if I wasn't going to die trying (Somewhere about this time I went from Marxist to Anarchist, and got involved with the Environmentalist movement). And so I channelled the energy I spent being apathetic and hateful into learning. I found that learning made me a lot happier, so I went forth industriously learning about Leftism in general, especially Anarchism and Environmentalism, learned languages, and developed a taste for classic literature (Homer, Chaucer, Thoreau, Whitman, etcetera).

[MarxSchmarx]

Short answer: I read.
Long answer:
Several years ago, I was naïve and oh so ambitious. When I realised that the Revolution wasn't really around the corner and that I could not reason with random people on the street corner about the superiority of Communism and the many faults of Capitalism, I became depressed, and that led to a general apathy towards everything, especially the Leftist movement(s). Eventually I decided that if I couldn't change the world, I'd just change a small part of it, and damn it if I wasn't going to die trying (Somewhere about this time I went from Marxist to Anarchist, and got involved with the Environmentalist movement). And so I channelled the energy I spent being apathetic and hateful into learning. I found that learning made me a lot happier, so I went forth industriously learning about Leftism in general, especially Anarchism and Environmentalism, learned languages, and developed a taste for classic literature (Homer, Chaucer, Thoreau, Whitman, etcetera).

no offence man but that sounds a lot like becoming an arm chair revolutionary.

[ellipsis]

I could not reason with random people on the street corner about the superiority of Communism and the many faults of Capitalism,

Sounds like you need to work on your agit-prop skills. This might help.

NGcE1H0Zil4

Or havie fun reading theory that you will never apply to your as-of-now-non-existent praxis.

[Aleenik]

I get really down too. It seems almost like Communism will never come. If it will, it sure doesn't seem like it'll happen in my lifetime. Hate to say I'm a defeatist, but when I look at the world in that regard I look at it in a realistic sense. Not sure how to overcome the down feeling I have because of Communism seeming so far off. I deal with that and many other things because of my support of Anarchist communism

[DinodudeEpic]

The real problem is that a lot of the userbase here are teenagers, and it's hard for teenagers to spread radical or intellectual ideas in today's climate. Due to persecution by parents, intellectually bankrupt students promoting that everyone who is intellectual should be persecuted, political apathy, lack of knowledge, anti-revolutionary sentiment, and just plain lack of interest.

And, teenagers don't usually have the freedom to travel much. (Since, the driving age, and the fact that parents probably wouldn't have their children be sent to a communist/socialist group for even an hour.) And, there is homework and school which pretty much cuts into the times of the teenage members.

Note that most of this only applies to American teenagers. I noticed from another thread that teenagers form a significant part of the user population of this site.

And of course, this is the internet. The center for apathetics. (Just look up political youtube comments. And, you'll know how WHINY they are.)

[genstrike]

There are lots of legitimate reasons for radical leftists to be depressed. If you're involved with some organizing project that doesn't seem to be going anywhere, then you might start to resent the grind. Especially if it is small, you could feel some social isolation, and possibly overwork if it's gotten to the point where you're just trying to keep something alive but all the work is falling on you. In addition, working as a radical in larger organizations can be extremely frustrating if you're dealing with an incurably reformist leadership made up of careerist liberals and social democrats, plus that bureaucratic social layer of staffers and full-time officials.

On top of that, we're seeing what is essentially a breakdown of the postwar social contract where a good chunk of people could expect to work for half-decent wages and have a pension, benefits, job security, etc., so for young people there is some generational anxiety in realizing that they will have to go through more education to be less well-off and much less secure than previous generations.

I play Dungeons and Dragons. It forces me to keep one time of the week free of meetings and other crap so I can play, and gets me interacting with a whole bunch of decent people who I can hang out and talk about something other than politics with. There's nothing wrong for a radical to take some time to enjoy life now and then - you're not so important that the revolution won't happen if you take a day off.

Secondly, I consciously try to not take on too many things. Trying to do too much can seriously impact your physical and mental health, especially if it starts cutting into things like proper eating and sleeping. In addition, there's a good chance that some of those things are bullshit, dysfunctional, or some other kind of fucked up.

[electro_fan]

If your fed up with being an armchair scholar, then go out and find a left wing group or a campaign you're passionate about and GET INVOLVED IN IT. for example are there cuts in your area of public services etc, are there protests about that? the next time you hear of a strike in your area go to the picket line and offer them your support, bring some food perhaps.

Ultimately socialism is about improvements and fighting for the WORKING CLASS, it's not about whether everyone passes a magic ideological test, I know I don't lol :D its about nobody is ever going to confirm to some perfect ideal of a marxist. you have to take people as they come, and if you jus sit here you'll get nowhere, that means getting involved in local events and protests,or just talking to people that you meet about politics. As long as you don't start talking about how great Stalin, Mao or North Korea is you will be fine, the actual concepts are something a lot more people agree with than you think.

don't worry about groups, the more you involved in politics, the more you will become familiar with the ideologies and meet people in the different groups, and you will become comfortable with what group best meets your ideas and what you want to join. Don't worry about joining a group right away though, or necessarily joining one at all, although what i will say is that it's a lot harder on your own.

it doesn't matter if it doesn't conform to some ideological purity test, if you're that passionate about you think, raise those ideas in the campaign. the chances are lots of people will think the same way as you.

i see a lot of people on here complaining that nobody thinks the same as them, nobody cares, etc etc etc, and how difficult it is etc, but i get the impression that a lot of people aren't very active beyond writing on this website, and if you are isolated etc it's very easy to become disillusioned (i kno this from experience!)

[ВАЛТЕР]

The only way to revive the fighting spirit of the revolutionary left, is by organizing actions. From strikes and protests, to in extreme cases, militant action. Apathy is a result of the world we live in, we feel hopeless since the imperialists do as they please, they bomb and occupy nations, steal from the public, and allow corporations to gain too much power. The media is nothing but sensationalist horseshit. The old saying: "Give them bread and circuses" applies. This is the exact method used to pacify the masses, we have cnn, bbc, fox news, jersey shore, reality programs, and gameshows to keep our minds off of the things that are happening. I suggest spreading information by any means, post links to information on facebook, talk to your friends if you see that they can be influenced (if they are already taken in by the system, it is useless.) I suggest talking with others, spreading information by way of social media, and leaving flyers in public places.

[No_Leaders]

I combat apathy with writing lots of music, and also alcohol. I know the feeling all too well of working with an organization and eventually feeling like it's getting nowhere. It can be very rough to combat apathy. You really just have to keep your head up and keep fighting for change. I think the first step is realizing we won't see an overthrow of capitalism and the state in our time.

[ellipsis]

I think the first step is realizing we won't see an overthrow of capitalism and the state in our time.

That's pretty defeatist.

[thesadmafioso]

Eh, it's sort of an occupational hazard that comes with the territory. Political consciousness and the ability to properly comprehend and analyze the exploitative mechanisms of capitalist society is bound to inevitably lead to some moments of hopelessness.

We are not the first generation to experience apparent apathy due to the lack of revolutionary situations, it is an occurrence that has arisen throughout history often enough.

I know that's a pretty mediocre answer, but I like to think that it's preferable to not being equipped with the theory to make sense of the course of historical development and the state of contemporary capitalist society.

[RED DAVE]

Okay, having waited for the revolution for longer than most of you (over 50 years), let me give you part of my formula as it works out in practice.

(1) The Revolution is going to happen.

(2) Do not put your life on hold waiting for it. Get a job that fulfills you (if you can get one, especially in this economy).

(3) Get into a long-term, committed relationship, preferably with someone of your views (or close enough to them so you don't argue too much about politics). Have kids or adopt kids. However, if your significant other changes their politics, do not stop loving them. You could just as easily have been the one to change. Don't expect your kids to inherit your politics.

(4) Never stop reading and studying. (The Collected Works of Marx and Engels is over 40 volumes. That will hold you for awhile.)

(5) Write. And I don't mean post on the Internet. Write articles. Write a book when you're ready. (You'll know.) Fiction is not a cop-out.

(6) Do not become an addict or an alcohholic. You will end up in rehab and 12-step meetings long before the Revolution and they are about as entertaining as watching "Meet the Kardashians."

(7) Never watch "Meet the Kardashians."

(8) Do not spend inordinate amounts of time alone. Have lots of sex, even if it's with yourself.

(9) Be very careful before you actually join a revolutionary organization. To paraphrase "Eat, Pray, Love," it's kind of like getting a tattoo on your face. You want to think about it for awhile before you do it.

(10) Remember that most of your comrades are going to stop being revolutionaries after awhile. Don't cut yourself off from them unless they become fascists. It could have been you.

(11) Laugh as often as possible. Music is good too. Enjoy nature. Get a dog, a cat, a bird, some fish.

(12) Travel as much as you can.

(13) You will get old and die whether or not the Revolution happens in your lifetime. Remember this.

RED DAVE

[Flying Trotsky]

Personally, I try to use apathy as a means of driving myself on. What else can one do except fight the good fight?

[¿Que?]

I have an apathy for learning. I feel I'm preoccupied with praxis. Take Marx's thesis on feurerbach, for instance. If the point is to change the world, then learning serves a purpose, it is not an end in itself. However, this seems improbable because under communism, labor is supposed to be an end in itself, and not labor for duty, money, or anything else like that. It's the problem of reification, that makes objective social phenomena. It makes the need to work for subsistence an objective need. An unreified society would have the capacity to work for pleasure.

[Azula]

The best way to deal with apathy is to shock people out of their numbness, by doing something strong, which people will talk about, and to signal strengh, determination and vigour with your body language.

People don't listen to reason, they listen to emotions.

[RED DAVE]

The best way to deal with apathy is to shock people out of their numbness, by doing something strong, which people will talk about, and to signal strengh, determination and vigour with your body language.With all due respect, this is nonsense. We are Marxists, not Nietscheans.


People don't listen to reason, they listen to emotions.You have much to learn.

Reason without emotions is dry and boring and can be used to justify anything.

Emotions without reason move rapidly to hysteria and can be attached to any ideology.

I suggest you watch "Triumph of the Will."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcFuHGHfYwE

RED DAVE

[ellipsis]

The best way to deal with apathy is to shock people out of their numbness, by doing something strong, which people will talk about, and to signal strengh, determination and vigour with your body language.

People don't listen to reason, they listen to emotions.

If this were true, #opBART would have started a commuter revolution last week.

I don't know if you are talking about propaganda of the deed or whatever, but I think history has pretty clearly shown that propaganda actions made by fringe groups do not in and of themselves have the ability to create a broader movement or class consciousness.

What they have been shown to do is create an sense of urgency among the populace and in the state. The state will either a) isolate the movement and address some of the concerns of the people or b) brutally crackdown on all political and social dissent. If it is the latter, there is the possibility that people will reaction to strong state repression, but to consciously engineer this situation is kinda immoral, considering may lives will be lost, possibly with no benefit.

[No_Leaders]

That's pretty defeatist.
Maybe i should clarify what i mean. By that i really mean it's not like revolution is gonna happen today or tomorrow, or next week or month or even next year. It will happen i know that, but it may not happen in our time. I mean when i was younger getting into marxism then anarchism i really thought the potential for revolt was right around the corner. Had hopes that any major protest might lead to a revolution. Then i realized that this is something that's going to really take time.

[ellipsis]

Maybe i should clarify what i mean. By that i really mean it's not like revolution is gonna happen today or tomorrow, or next week or month or even next year. It will happen i know that, but it may not happen in our time. I mean when i was younger getting into marxism then anarchism i really thought the potential for revolt was right around the corner. Had hopes that any major protest might lead to a revolution. Then i realized that this is something that's going to really take time.

I can agree with that. Time alone is not going to do it, we must build a revolutionary struggle everyday, but as you say with the knowledge that we may not see the fruition of our projects immediately or ever.

[Sentinel]

I see where RED DAVE is coming from saying that one should be careful before getting organised. Besides the reasons he outlined, one must feel ready to get truly committed, being politically active requires lots of time and energy. Moreover, it's also good to do proper research before joining a political organisation. Lots of weirdos out there. :lol:

But I also think that getting active is the absolutely best cure to apathy and depression. Already the Christians realised it, 'extra ecclesiam nulla salus -- there is no salvation outside the church'.

The activity keeps one from becoming too introverted and depressed, and discussions with the comrades give you support and motivate you. Joining my current party (I was member of another org previously but never a very active one) gave me perhaps the single largest boost of self confidence in my life so far.

[scourge007]

I took up reading , listening to revolutionary songs , working out , and I watch movies. I go to college and when I'm not going to class I go outside and walk the streets.I hear the anger and bitterness in the people. When I read more revolutionary literature I'll try to educate them about Marxism.

[Dumb]

On the one hand, I'd love to get active, and that would probably shake me out of my doldrums. On the other hand, I want to stay away from organisations as possible; if anything, I'd probably just fuck up anything I touched.

[Veovis]

I've been feeling apathetic too, but you know what? I think I'm gonna go ride my bike.

For the good of the working class.:star2:

[ellipsis]

On the one hand, I'd love to get active, and that would probably shake me out of my doldrums. On the other hand, I want to stay away from organisations as possible; if anything, I'd probably just fuck up anything I touched.

Why must you kill all that you touch?

[Rafiq]

A revolution is inevitable, so just live your life normally. Don't try to blow shit up or rob banks until the situation is really chaotic, like Russia during WW1 or Germany in the 20s

[thesadmafioso]

A revolution is inevitable, so just live your life normally. Don't try to blow shit up or rob banks until the situation is really chaotic, like Russia during WW1 or Germany in the 20s

Revolutions do not simply materialize out of thin air, someone needs to be on the ground with the rank and file of labor organizing them into coherent organs of the movement.

I also don't think that we need to 'blow anything up' to participate in such activities, there is nothing violent about arming the workers with the revolutionary theory which is indispensable to the attainment of socialism and to the emancipation of labor.

[Dumb]

Why must you kill all that you touch?

I have a chronic history of rank incompetence; I've seen multiple projects blossom right after I left and/or struggle as soon as I joined. With the exception of graduating from college, I've failed at literally every undertaking I've ever, er...undertaken. Relationships, jobs, getting in to grad school, developing several skills I'd long coveted... There are many ways in which I'm very lucky indeed, so I'm not trying trying to say that my life sucks; what I'm saying, however, is that I suck. I'm not looking for pity, nor do I deserve any - this is all just fact of the matter, and the facts show that any revolutionary enterprise is best served by my absence.

[Nehru]

The activity keeps one from becoming too introverted and depressed, and discussions with the comrades give you support and motivate you..

What of guys, introverted or not, that find pleasure in things rather than people?

[OHumanista]

I am one of the young ones(19) but I fully agree with what Red Dave said. In any case I just do my best when I can and try to inspire myself, reading, talking, listening to leftist music...pretty much anything. :)