I think racial diversity is a good and great idea

[tradeunionsupporter]

I think racial diversity is a good and great idea for the West and the Western Nations because saying Europe or North America or Australia should be all White or majority White is racist and hate in my opinion in my view racial diversity is good because number 1 the racism in the past White people used to only want to be around other Whites and wanted to outlaw or ban Whites marrying Non Whites I think Non White Immigration is good because it gives a White persons the chance to knows what it's like to be around people of other races or skin colors I just disagree with White Supremacists and Nazis who want a White World does anyone agree ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiculturalism

[RGacky3]

White is racist and hate in my opinion

No its not its a color dummy.


I think Non White Immigration is good because it gives a White persons the chance to knows what it's like to be around people of other races or skin colors I just disagree with White Supremacists and Nazis who want a White World does anyone agree ?


I honestly think multiculturalism is niether good nor bad, its just the evolution of society, if things stay the same culturally, fine, if things change, thats fine too, any time you try and engineer culture your gonna fail.

[Revy]

No its not its a color dummy.

I think you may have been confused by OP's utter lack of punctuation. That is not the view they were trying to express. Just saying....

[bcbm]

the creation of the white race was racist actually

[RGacky3]

my bad, your right, my apologies.



the creation of the white race was racist actually


You mean the concept of a white race.

[ZombieRothbard]

I am for multiculturalism, not because "racism is bad", since that is just an unsupported preference claim.

Multiculturalism is important because it seeks to blend ideas and mold cultures, often taking the best of many cultures and excluding the worst of some cultures.

The only bad form of cultural is religion, because it typically advocates the extinction of other cultures.

[Ocean Seal]

I am for multiculturalism, not because "racism is bad", since that is just an unsupported preference claim.

Multiculturalism is important because it seeks to blend ideas and mold cultures, often taking the best of many cultures and excluding the worst of some cultures.

The only bad form of cultural is religion, because it typically advocates the extinction of other cultures.
So what you're telling me is that the systematic oppression of one or more races could possibly not be bad from an objective perspective. I mean hey let's extend that to the systematic massacre of a race. Yes, clearly saying that's bad is just an unsupported preference claim.

[L.A.P.]

I disagree.:rolleyes:

[Desperado]

I dislike like "multiculturalism" as a word as it nearly always implies that said cultures are clear cut homogeneous lego blocks which are then mixed together. All generalised "cultures" are already a mixture of "cultures" (for example Britain is already mixture of Welsh and English, Protestant and Catholic, long before we look at the newer arrival of Muslims). The usage of multiculturalism (sometimes accidentally when trying the opposite, sometimes sinisterly on purpose) alienates some segment from the whole. Ironically, "multiculturalism" is nearly always an exclusive grouping, not an inclusive one.

[ZombieRothbard]

So what you're telling me is that the systematic oppression of one or more races could possibly not be bad from an objective perspective. I mean hey let's extend that to the systematic massacre of a race. Yes, clearly saying that's bad is just an unsupported preference claim.

The act of oppression is bad, but the mere act of preferring some individuals over another, even based on silly arbitrary criteria, is not objectively wrong.

[Bronco]

The act of oppression is bad, but the mere act of preferring some individuals over another, even based on silly arbitrary criteria, is not objectively wrong.

I'm sorry but it's ridiculous to try and excuse racism and pass it off as trivial by reducing it down to "preferring some individuals over others". We're not talking about individuals, we're talking about considering an entire race of people inferiors and, by extension, advocating discrimination, prejudice and oppression

[ZombieRothbard]

I'm sorry but it's ridiculous to try and excuse racism and pass it off as trivial by reducing it down to "preferring some individuals over others". We're not talking about individuals, we're talking about considering an entire race of people inferiors and, by extension, advocating discrimination, prejudice and oppression

Racists that advocate for institutionalized superiority are more like fascists than they are just "racists". My understanding of being just "racist" means that you just have your own preferences. What separates the harmful racists and the non-harmful ones is whether they advocate for inequality under the law.

[Viet Minh]

Integration, integration, integration.
EDIT: not to be confused with assimilation or cultural imperialism

[L.A.P.]

Racists that advocate for institutionalized superiority are more like fascists than they are just "racists". My understanding of being just "racist" means that you just have your own preferences. What separates the harmful racists and the non-harmful ones is whether they advocate for inequality under the law.

Libertarian shows their true colors. These "personal preferences" become policy when the person with those preferences owns property in your ideal society, don't they?

[Reznov]

the creation of the white race was racist actually

Everything is racist! :laugh:

Wtf was this post even about?

[dude6935]

These "personal preferences" become policy when the person with those preferences owns property in your ideal society, don't they?

What do you mean by policy? That is kinda vague.

Racism is a belief. I think we should discuss thoughts and actions separately.

[Decolonize The Left]

Racists that advocate for institutionalized superiority are more like fascists than they are just "racists". My understanding of being just "racist" means that you just have your own preferences. What separates the harmful racists and the non-harmful ones is whether they advocate for inequality under the law.

I'm sorry, but "your understanding of being racist" is terribly ignorant and misguided.

Racism is the belief that one race is superior to another. It has nothing to do with 'preferences.'

Furthermore, all racism is harmful.
There is no such thing as 'non-harmful racists.' Your example of someone who is racist but doesn't 'act' on it is likewise misguided. Their racism need not be actualized in legislation to affect other people. Racism emerges in the smallest of ways - say this racist saw a murder happen and was called to testify and they honestly thought it was a black man who murdered the white person. Their honesty may be clouded by their racism and they believed they saw something they didn't.
Make sense?

- August

[dude6935]

I'm sorry, but "your understanding of being racist" is terribly ignorant and misguided.

Racism is the belief that one race is superior to another. It has nothing to do with 'preferences.'

That is a distinction without a difference. A white racist prefers whites over non-whites because he sees them as superior. Much as I prefer an Xbox because it is superior to a PlayStation.


Furthermore, all racism is harmful.
There is no such thing as 'non-harmful racists.' Your example of someone who is racist but doesn't 'act' on it is likewise misguided. Their racism need not be actualized in legislation to affect other people. Racism emerges in the smallest of ways - say this racist saw a murder happen and was called to testify and they honestly thought it was a black man who murdered the white person. Their honesty may be clouded by their racism and they believed they saw something they didn't.
Make sense?

- August

Yes, perfect sense. Kill all racists!

[Decolonize The Left]

That is a distinction without a difference. A white racist prefers whites over non-whites because he sees them as superior. Much as I prefer an Xbox because it is superior to a PlayStation.

What? Race is not equivalent to a video game console...


Yes, perfect sense. Kill all racists!

I don't know what you're talking about. Trolling perhaps?

- August

[RGacky3]

That is a distinction without a difference. A white racist prefers whites over non-whites because he sees them as superior. Much as I prefer an Xbox because it is superior to a PlayStation.


Prefers? What does that mean? Prefers for what? If its prefers to associate with or whatever, then he's just being stupid.

[dude6935]

What? Race is not equivalent to a video game console...

That is a false characterization of what I said. I didn't equate racism to a game console. I am talking about preferences. Racial preferences and consumer preferences are still just preferences. You like some people and some traits more than others. Preferences don't kill. They are just thoughts.




I don't know what you're talking about. Trolling perhaps?

- August

People are equating thoughts and actions. Racism is a belief. Lets not treat all racists as if they were genocidal maniacs.

You claim that a harmless racists is an impossibility. The only logical conclusion to that line of thinking is to disallow 'harmful' thoughts.

Are you advocating thought police? Or do you just plan to sit back and watch 'harmful' racists roam free?

Just because you don't understand my satirical argument doesn't mean I am a troll.

[Napoleon Winston]

I think racial diversity is a good and great idea for the West and the Western Nations because saying Europe or North America or Australia should be all White or majority White is racist

Yes, saying a place should be mainly owned by a specific race is, by definition, racist.
But what do you feel about ethnic groups?
Should a place like Britain be mainly British? Should Ireland be mainly Irish?



in my opinion in my view racial diversity is good because number 1 the racism in the past White people used to only want to be around other Whites and wanted to outlaw or ban Whites marrying Non Whites I think Non White Immigration is good because it gives a White persons the chance to knows what it's like to be around people of other races or skin colors I just disagree with White Supremacists and Nazis who want a White World does anyone agree ?

I agree that it shouldn't be a white world.
I disagree its of the utmost importance to pour people into countries for no apparent reason.
I also disagree that somehow different color= different culture and ideas.

Infact, the way you went on about racial diversity for no moral, ethical, cultural, or practical reason would lead me to believe you yourself are racist posing as a wolf in sheep's clothing.
There are many reasons why racism is bad, but saying racism is bad because diversity is good and diversity is good because racism is bad, isn't a reason.

[RGacky3]

Racial preferences and consumer preferences are still just preferences. You like some people and some traits more than others. Preferences don't kill. They are just thoughts.


What is a racial preferance? Like preferance for what?


People are equating thoughts and actions. Racism is a belief. Lets not treat all racists as if they were genocidal maniacs.


Its 2 things, one is a institutional arangement, one is just a belief, I agree, I don't care if some dummy is a personal racist, the problem comes when that becomes a power institution, which it is.


But what do you feel about ethnic groups?
Should a place like Britain be mainly British? Should Ireland be mainly Irish?


It SHOULD'NT be anything, it should be what it is, you can't, nor should you control natural cultural and ethnic evolution.

[Comintern1919]

That is a false characterization of what I said. I didn't equate racism to a game console. I am talking about preferences. Racial preferences and consumer preferences are still just preferences. You like some people and some traits more than others. Preferences don't kill. They are just thoughts.

People are equating thoughts and actions. Racism is a belief. Lets not treat all racists as if they were genocidal maniacs.

Dude, are you listening to yourself? Would you really talk with a black, and say:
"Hey, y'know what, I am a rascist. But don't worry, I don't hate you Race. I just don't like it. And I just prefer white people over your people, as we are clearly better. That's why we should get more money, better jobs, and more privileges. Surely you understand. But hey, we can still be friends! ... If you stick to your own kind."
Yeeeaaah, very nice, very friendly.

There is NO good rascism! If you think, someone or something is better than someone/thing else, that's your opinion. But if you think a WHOLE race is NATURALY less good, less to "prefer", that is rascism, and one of the worst things in this world.




Much as I prefer an Xbox because it is superior to a PlayStation.

You know what? I think, the PS3 is better, and I don't like the X-Boy.
Intolerant, rascist people like you would know start the typicall, and annoying, hating:
" Ah, X-Box is better, Those Playstation Gamer are all so silly and bad and stink, that's why developer should prefer us, and only produce X-Box exclusive games, which do not be released on Playstation! WHAT, that games isn't X-Box-Exclusiv? It's on THE PS3?! How can you, I'll kill y'all! " .
Tolerant people would say:
"Okay, I don't agree with you, because ... , but if you like the PS3 more, okay, you play it. After all, you have the same rights I have, and your opinion is as much worth as mine. After all, we don't prefer anyone! Hey, let's have a multiplayer-duell, together!".

How do you take the RIGHT to be able to tell other what's SUPERIOR? That's more than just arrogant.

[Rêve Rouge]

I think racial diversity is a good and great idea for the West and the Western Nations because saying Europe or North America or Australia...

Why only the "white" nations? Yes, white supremacy has/is been an issue in the past and present. But racism happens everywhere worldwide. Like in the middle east where Israeli's and Arabs have some tension, to the far east and southeast Asia where there's a strong sense of ethnocentrism in some nations. If anything, diversity should happen worldwide, not just the western nations.

[Zav]

There is no such thing as "race". People have a wide range of skin tones, and groups of people tend to have certain traits due to slight genetic bottlenecking and distant incest. That's how we've evolved. Apart from recognising that others have done horrible things because of perceived "race", I don't see why people even mention the concept, never mind make such a big deal about it.

Examples of such foolery:
"His skin is darker than mine! Oooh, scary!"
"I divide people by the color of their hide, but everyone should be equal."
"I am lighter in color than that person, therefore I am 'white' and they are 'black'."
"Herp. I am white, therefore I am superior to everyone. Derp."

[balaclava]

I am for multiculturalism,
Multiculturalism is important because it seeks to blend ideas and mold cultures, often taking the best of many cultures and excluding the worst of some cultures.


Argh . . .oh but that were the case.

Multiculturalism. as it has become to be defined, is a society where people of different cultures keep, retain and practice their own different cultures ensuring that their culture is not altered by aspects of other cultures. That in itself (I would argue) is a form of racial supremacy i.e. by refusing to take on aspects of another culture suggests that those aspects are inferior. Society by its nature, requires agreement, unity and common purpose to exits in harmoniously. Multiculturalism is divisive, division is bad.

[Thirsty Crow]

I also think it's a good idea since I wallow in enjoyment of other cultures, especially in music, cuisine and language.
Though, I'd emphasize that it's cultural diversity that is the real manifestation of differences usually associated with illusory "racial differences".


Society by its nature, requires agreement, unity and common purpose to exits in harmoniously. Multiculturalism is divisive, division is bad.It is not the existence of different cultures what is divisive, but rather the organization of social production. In other words, no society organized as a capitalist society can achieve anything we would call "harmony" or "common purpose", and the inherent social conflicts take the illusory form of cultural confilcts by means of specific social and political mechanisms (propaganda, defamation, social situations consequent to imperialism etc.).

[Ingraham Effingham]

the creation of the white race was racist actually

Are you refering to the NOI version of the Yakub and the island of Patmos tale?

[The Underdog]

Can anyone actually define 'culture' for me? I see no particular 'culture' when I look around me. Only haves and have-nots.

:confused:

[Thirsty Crow]

Can anyone actually define 'culture' for me? I see no particular 'culture' when I look around me. Only haves and have-nots.

:confused:
As a term, it can be used to signify social practices which are not usually signified by terms such as "the economic" or "the political", though the delineation is only conceptual since cultural practices, such as writing/readinf literature or producing/listening to music are also at least partly determined by the economic sphere (due to the fact that capitalism is inherently expansionist in the sense of seeking new markets).
So, culture refers to human practices which are not directly connected to the way people make a living (production, the economy) or how they decide upon affairs common to a community/society as a whole (politics; though, there's a tendency to talk about a "culture of democracy", but it is connected to a theoretical elaboration of "culture" I'll briefly descrbie below).
Therefore, some of the cultural practices are literature, music, painitng, cuisine, clothing etc.

Another view on culture states that the term encompasses a group's "whole way of life", which is broader category and can be used to describe a whole host of phenomena, such as the dissemination of attitudes through upbringing and education, the specific forms of human interaction within institutions such as the family, specific behavior in a whole host of different situations.

Hope this helps.

[Octavian]

I don't like the idea of multiculturalism so much because it breeds contempt. People tend to feel more on edge and hostile towards each other when forced into heavily diverse societies. To me it seems ridiculous to cause this hostility for the sake of feeling good.

[ComradeMan]

I don't have a problem with multiculturalism because it has always existed. In the days of Ancient Rome, Rome was a cosmopolitan city. What I do object to is pluralism passed off as multiculturalism.

[#FF0000]

I don't have a problem with multiculturalism because it has always existed. In the days of Ancient Rome, Rome was a cosmopolitan city. What I do object to is pluralism passed off as multiculturalism.

What do you mean?

[#FF0000]

I don't like the idea of multiculturalism so much because it breeds contempt. People tend to feel more on edge and hostile towards each other when forced into heavily diverse societies. To me it seems ridiculous to cause this hostility for the sake of feeling good.

What a stupid thing to think.

[#FF0000]

Are you refering to the NOI version of the Yakub and the island of Patmos tale?


No he's talking about the white race as a social construct.

[ComradeMan]

What do you mean?

Multiculturalism, at least to me, implies a lot of cultures living together in peace and contributing to a greater poly-culture. Pluralism, on the other hand, just means a lot of cultures (that don't like each other necessarily) thrown together in an awkward do ut des kind of relationship and only having minimal contact with each other when necessary under some kind of umbrella.

[Thirsty Crow]

I don't like the idea of multiculturalism so much because it breeds contempt. People tend to feel more on edge and hostile towards each other when forced into heavily diverse societies. To me it seems ridiculous to cause this hostility for the sake of feeling good.
Capitalism breeds contempt.
How many times does this simple point have to be repeated, that without material destitution, poverty and the drive to competion which results in domination, how can simple encounters of a different set of cultural artefacts or ways to create music or ways to meditate, how can this lead to hostility?

[Octavian]

What a stupid thing to think.
See this

Multiculturalism, at least to me, implies a lot of cultures living together in peace and contributing to a greater poly-culture. Pluralism, on the other hand, just means a lot of cultures (that don't like each other necessarily) thrown together in an awkward do ut des kind of relationship and only having minimal contact with each other when necessary under some kind of umbrella.

This pretty much describes urban Canada. It's somewhat good but for the most part it causes high levels of xenophobia and a lot of ethnic/cultural friction.


Capitalism breeds contempt.
How many times does this simple point have to be repeated, that without material destitution, poverty and the drive to competion which results in domination, how can simple encounters of a different set of cultural artefacts or ways to create music or ways to meditate, how can this lead to hostility?
Don't ask me because I don't create the contempt, it's just what I've observed. The fact of matter is that most people are stupid and not very open it causes problems.

[#FF0000]

Multiculturalism, at least to me, implies a lot of cultures living together in peace and contributing to a greater poly-culture. Pluralism, on the other hand, just means a lot of cultures (that don't like each other necessarily) thrown together in an awkward do ut des kind of relationship and only having minimal contact with each other when necessary under some kind of umbrella.

Okay, so pluralism would be like segregation or strictly divided "ethnic enclaves", whereas multiculturalism is a bunch of people of different backgrounds living in the same neighborhood.

[#FF0000]

See this


This pretty much describes urban Canada. It's somewhat good but for the most part it causes high levels of xenophobia and a lot of ethnic/cultural friction.


Don't ask me because I don't create the contempt, it's just what I've observed. The fact of matter is that most people are stupid and not very open it causes problems.

Well excuse me for not taking your anecdotal bullshit seriously.

Especially when I live in an area where over two dozen languages/dialects are spoken, and people get along totally fine. :mellow:

[ComradeMan]

Okay, so pluralism would be like segregation or strictly divided "ethnic enclaves", whereas multiculturalism is a bunch of people of different backgrounds living in the same neighborhood.

More or less... multiculturalism would also mean integration and cultural innovation not everyone living in their separate cultural "bubbles"- something I observed when I was in London and can also be seen in Milan and Rome.

Don't be too hard on that guy Octavian- your reality and locality may not be his. I don't know about Canada, I just know Italian Montreal ;), however in many places in Europe it seems the only level of multiculturalism is in terms of work and shopping, little else- i.e. the places where people are obliged to mix and maintain a moderately civil tone, yet there is no sense of community with the "others". This is a sad fact of the 21st century.

[Thirsty Crow]

Don't ask me because I don't create the contempt, it's just what I've observed. The fact of matter is that most people are stupid and not very open it causes problems.
Consider the fact that one of the drives for xenophobia and racism manifests itself in the propaganda of "they're here to take 'your' jobs", repeated ad nauseam by the right wing which naturally supports capitalism. Now, think about the fact that capital, as was ingeniusly stated in a book whose title I cannot remember at the time (yeah, I'm pretty stupid sometimes), creates an immediate atittude/sense of dependancy by its sole virtue of existence (in other words, capitalists create jobs, and if capitalists cannot offer enough of it, it can be attributed to the people who "don't belong here"), and connect it to the propaganda I mentioned and the overall cultural and ideological domination of capitalist apologia in relation to revolutionary criticism in the mainstream.
It's not so simple that people are stupid and there is an inherent, natural "clash of civilizations" or any other hawkish Huntingtonian bullshit. People are systematically excluded from the possibility to attain a skill set conducive to a devlopment of critical consciousness and militant class cousnciousness. This is bourgeois rule by means of ideology (since brute force cannot constitute stability in class rule).

[Octavian]

Well excuse me for not taking your anecdotal bullshit seriously.

Especially when I live in an area where over two dozen languages/dialects are spoken, and people get along totally fine. :mellow:

How long have those people been then there though. I know people can often integrate fine in some parts but it's easy to criticize and play "can't we all just get along card" from afar. When you have radically different cultures mixing in a short amount of time it creates problems and then the government/society has to bend to the needs/wants of one group and then another complains.


Consider the fact that one of the drives for xenophobia and racism manifests itself in the propaganda of "they're here to take 'your' jobs", repeated ad nauseam by the right wing which naturally supports capitalism. Now, think about the fact that capital, as was ingeniusly stated in a book whose title I cannot remember at the time (yeah, I'm pretty stupid sometimes), creates an immediate atittude/sense of dependancy by its sole virtue of existence (in other words, capitalists create jobs, and if capitalists cannot offer enough of it, it can be attributed to the people who "don't belong here"), and connect it to the propaganda I mentioned and the overall cultural and ideological domination of capitalist apologia in relation to revolutionary criticism in the mainstream.
It's not so simple that people are stupid and there is an inherent, natural "clash of civilizations" or any other hawkish Huntingtonian bullshit. People are systematically excluded from the possibility to attain a skill set conducive to a devlopment of critical consciousness and militant class cousnciousness. This is bourgeois rule by means of ideology (since brute force cannot constitute stability in class rule).

I realize this but try explaining it to the average worker. If you did you would probably met with stares or some anti-intellectual claim. If were ever going to connect with the working class I think it has to be me on their level but run from ours, we can't sit in the ivory tower all the time.

[#FF0000]

How long have those people been then there though. I know people can often integrate fine in some parts but it's easy to criticize and play "can't we all just get along card" from afar. When you have radically different cultures mixing in a short amount of time it creates problems and then the government/society has to bend to the needs/wants of one group and then another complains.

Uhh, pretty recent I think. Awhile back we just suddenly got a ton of Egyptian and Polish and Indian and Russian and Asian and African immigrants.

And despite all these sudden culture shocks all people complain about are people from New York and New Jersey.

[ComradeMan]

And despite all these sudden culture shocks all people complain about are people from New York and New Jersey.

Fuck that shit.... Jersey Rules goombah! ;) :lol:

I can't believe people are so prejudiced where you are! :lol:

[#FF0000]

Fuck that shit.... Jersey Rules goombah! ;) :lol:

I can't believe people are so prejudiced where you are! :lol:

They say people from Jersey can't drive and honestly they are fucking right.

[balaclava]

Because of the multinational composite of this forum it is possible that the term multiculturalism has a different meaning/form in different countries. I am in the UK and here it is defined as a structure where people of different cultures keep, retain and practice their own different cultures ensuring that their culture is not altered by aspects of other cultures i.e. there is no melting pot; no coming together but a separation of people who follow different cultures. That (I would argue (as have others not least of which is the chairperson of the Equality and Human Rights Commission) is divisive.

The question that follows is (in today’s political correct society) are we allowed to identify and vilify alien cultural practices that are bad e.g. first cousin marriage, female genital mutilation etc. Are we allowed to criticise others cultural values / practices without being branded racist?

[Viet Minh]

The question that follows is (in today’s political correct society) are we allowed to identify and vilify alien cultural practices that are bad e.g. first cousin marriage, female genital mutilation etc. Are we allowed to criticise others cultural values / practices without being branded racist?

Its fairly obvious when that criticism is down to racism, mostly because racists are such morons. So for instance the EDL talking about womens rights :rolleyes: are unlikely to be ardent feminists genuinely concerned about the role of women in other nations and cultures, they are simply using a cultural stereotype to slander an entire culture or religion. As for cultural rights, as long as the practises fall within the law of that nation then we have a right to criticise but can't exactly take a 'moral high ground', the danger being we are imposing our own cultural bias onto others. There may be some room for exceptions to be made, such as within sharia civil courts or where rabbis mediate over disagreements in the jewish community. However this would not extend to such a concept as 'honour killing' which is not a genuine cultural tradition anyway, although the right may portray it as such.

[Viet Minh]

Tune in tomorrow for 'I think the Nazis was bad'

[RGacky3]

When it comes to anectodal evidence, for every 1 guy that does'nt get along with other races, you'll have 1000 that do.

[ComradeMan]

They say people from Jersey can't drive and honestly they are fucking right.

:lol:

Don't be "dissin" out Joizee ;)

On the subject of driving stereotypes.... have you ever driven in Italy, or perhaps Greece? ;)

[#FF0000]

On the subject of driving stereotypes.... have you ever driven in Italy

My dad was in Italy when he was in the Navy for a bit. A tradition on base was to have the new people sit in the front seat whenever they were taking a taxi anywhere. Just to put the fear of god in them.

[ComradeMan]

My dad was in Italy when he was in the Navy for a bit. A tradition on base was to have the new people sit in the front seat whenever they were taking a taxi anywhere. Just to put the fear of god in them.

LOL! My friend said that seeing as the Church was against birth control they gave us all driving licenses easily instead! No, seriously- driving here is not fun, and fuck, when I was in Greece even I started saying Ave Marias!
;)

[Tomhet]

Ehh.. I don't really feel a connection to "white people" anywhos, if you'd even call me 'white'..