Another man shot (and subsequently killed) by police in the Bay Area

[Rusty Shackleford]

G68UmLMO7CY


Just 13 days after a man was shot at a BART station in SF by SFPD/BART Cops

[Fulanito de Tal]

In what context was he shot? From the comments of the people around, it seemed like he was shot without a just cause.

It seems like we need the original Black Panther Party back. (I wish we had a smilie of people holding rifles in the air, something like this http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h376/fulanitodetal46/granma.png)

[Rusty Shackleford]

from what i have heard, cops say he was armed and opened fire on the cops.

i head two stories of police murders today from the Bay Area and im not sure if they are the same ones. If the case is that the man who was shot was shooting at the cops, then i doubt there would have been a crowd around within minutes of him being shot.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

God damn it now I'm all pissed off. I'm thinking about moving to the East Bay but with my luck with cops I'll probably get shot or some shit. Why was this guy killed, thought he was going for a gun but it was his wallet? God damn it.

[Ocean Seal]

In what context was he shot? From the comments of the people around, it seemed like he was shot without a just cause.

It seems like we need the original Black Panther Party back. (I wish we had a smilie of people holding rifles in the air, something like this http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h376/fulanitodetal46/granma.png)
This is an excellent point. To what extent will the people allow violence against them to go unchallenged. How are people organizing in the Bay Area? Is there something we can do to show solidarity or how do we organize in multiple cities systematically.

[Rusty Shackleford]

This is an excellent point. To what extent will the people allow violence against them to go unchallenged. How are people organizing in the Bay Area? Is there something we can do to show solidarity or how do we organize in multiple cities systematically.
There are orgs like Souljah which i met at the anti-mehserle demo in walnut creek a year ago (almost to the day) and then there are other coalitions and orgs. PSL/ANSWER, RCP, ISO, Nation of Islam and so on taking part in the anti-police brutality work in SF.

I dont know all of what is going on or who organizes anti-police brutality stuff in SF/Bay Area only because i am not there. Most of the time, the community quickly organizes itself. But, since the murder of Oscar Grant, it may be even faster because people have been dealing with shit like this for even longer than that. But, Oscar Grant's death was almost an international issue, definitely a national one and it really reverberated because there was video and proof that he was murdered.

Since then, the community has been active and this may just galvanize it.

[ellipsis]

http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/2011/07/police-shoot-individual-bayview

A 19-year-old man who was shot by police Saturday afternoon in the Bayview has died.
The suspect, who was shot by two officers after allegedly turning and firing at the cops, was running from police after failing to provide a valid Muni fare died. A spokeswoman for Supervisor Malia Cohen, who represents the Bayview district, said she received confirmation from San Francisco General Hospital that the suspect died. Police said the man died at 7:01 p.m.


Read more at the San Francisco Examiner: http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/2011/07/police-shoot-individual-bayview#ixzz1SQZgy6MG

[Fulanito de Tal]

http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/2011/07/police-shoot-individual-bayview


A Fire Department ladder was extended to the rooftop of a nearby building so police could search for a weapon the suspect allegedly threw onto the roof of a one-story building across the street from the Joseph P. Lee Recreation Center. Police did not say whether a weapon had been found.

Read more at the San Francisco Examiner: http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/2011/07/police-shoot-individual-bayview#ixzz1SQgWI4Xu
OMFG. The guy allegedly threw a weapon on the roof of a building, but the weapon cannot be found. (Edit: Why would the police shoot someone that threw their weapon way?) So he was killed without a trial for not showing his Muni Pass (mass transit or similar pass?) to the police? If so, this is FUCKING MURDER.

[Rusty Shackleford]

seriously? a man gets shot and has the energy to throw his gun onto the roof of a nearby building? this is a worse excuse than "mistaking a gun for a taser"

[Jose Gracchus]

There are claims the gun has been found and he was a 'person of interest' in a Seattle murder, but I have not been able to find a lot of corroboration. Does anyone else have this story?

[Rusty Shackleford]

There are claims the gun has been found and he was a 'person of interest' in a Seattle murder, but I have not been able to find a lot of corroboration. Does anyone else have this story?
jesus fuck they love to make shit up.

i really doubt this could be true. seriously, a guy who was supposedly a suspect in a murder, and supposedly armed, would run from crops and then supposedly shoot at them over a bus fare?

how much more absurd can their story get.

[Fulanito de Tal]

There are claims the gun has been found and he was a 'person of interest' in a Seattle murder, but I have not been able to find a lot of corroboration. Does anyone else have this story?

lol. Does being 'a person of interest' justify being killed?

[Jose Gracchus]

No, of course not, I just want to know all the claims before I publicize the story.

[Le Socialiste]

When are people going to start fighting back? And by "fighting back", I don't mean a couple of peaceful protests and a few finger wags. I'm sick of seeing people merely going "tsk tsk, that's not how the police force is supposed to behave"; actions must accompany the words of the masses.

Sorry folks, I'm not really in a place to be much of a pacifist (not that I ever really was).

[A Revolutionary Tool]

When are people going to start fighting back? And by "fighting back", I don't mean a couple of peaceful protests and a few finger wags. I'm sick of seeing people merely going "tsk tsk, that's not how the police force is supposed to behave"; actions must accompany the words of the masses.

Sorry folks, I'm not really in a place to be much of a pacifist (not that I ever really was).

I feels you bro, but if it's true that he actually shot at the cops before he got shot then it's going to be hard to get others to defend him against the police killing him. In fact I'll gaurantee you most people will say "good riddance"

[bcbm]

When are people going to start fighting back? And by "fighting back", I don't mean a couple of peaceful protests and a few finger wags. I'm sick of seeing people merely going "tsk tsk, that's not how the police force is supposed to behave"; actions must accompany the words of the masses.

Sorry folks, I'm not really in a place to be much of a pacifist (not that I ever really was).

theres been a couple riots over the oscar grant case, the bart was shutdown for several hours after the last police murder and there was a march/mini-riot over this one... not sure what you want to see but people aren't just wagging their fingers

[Rusty Shackleford]

so a gun has been found. and its on video.

ugh what the fuck.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/07/17/BA2G1KBJ9G.DTL

why didnt the cops get it right away?

http://i.imgur.com/LLyRT.jpg

[Le Socialiste]

Riots accomplish little other than serving as an outlet for unfocused anger. Unless said riots are focused in their mission and seek to do more than vent the grievances of the rioters, I can't wholly get behind them. By action, I meant a concerted drive by the people towards the dismantlement of the police state (I know, idealistic much?), guided by a burgeoning revolutionary consciousness.

[Le Socialiste]

so a gun has been found. and its on video.

ugh what the fuck.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...BA2G1KBJ9G.DTL (http://www.anonym.to/?http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/07/17/BA2G1KBJ9G.DTL)

why didnt the cops get it right away?




Well, that sucks...no chance it was planted, then?

[black magick hustla]

Riots accomplish little other than serving as an outlet for unfocused anger. Unless said riots are focused in their mission and seek to do more than vent the grievances of the rioters, I can't wholly get behind them. By action, I meant a concerted drive by the people towards the dismantlement of the police state (I know, idealistic much?), guided by a burgeoning revolutionary consciousness.

are you kidding me riots are like one of the few weapons we have. riot throw hell make em pay

[Obs]

I sincerely wish every single cop on Earth would contract a painful, flesh-eating disease of some kind and die.

[bcbm]

Riots accomplish little other than serving as an outlet for unfocused anger. Unless said riots are focused in their mission and seek to do more than vent the grievances of the rioters, I can't wholly get behind them. By action, I meant a concerted drive by the people towards the dismantlement of the police state (I know, idealistic much?), guided by a burgeoning revolutionary consciousness.

so unless the perfect event springs forth from an ahistorical nothing, you oppose the circumstances that could build such an event? :sneaky:

[Le Socialiste]

so unless the perfect event springs forth from an ahistorical nothing, you oppose the circumstances that could build such an event? :sneaky:

Where did I say that? The only thing that frustrates me here is the lack of focus when it comes to public, political forms of dissent. How many riots can one go through? Eventually, people are going to realize that they must go to the root of the problem and forcibly remove it if they are to ever truly rid themselves of state oppression.

I don't know, I'm just upset over this. Maybe when I return to this thread tomorrow I'll be able to say what I want to more clearly...

[bcbm]

a riot is the beginning not the end, its one means of building something larger and exploding social passivity

[Jimmie Higgins]

I feels you bro, but if it's true that he actually shot at the cops before he got shot then it's going to be hard to get others to defend him against the police killing him. In fact I'll gaurantee you most people will say "good riddance"

People will say that anyway. If you want to give yourself an aneurysm (don't) then check out comments in the online version of the San Francisco Chronical whenever cops shoot someone here. People were constantly saying that Oscar Grant murdered 4 cops (he didn't) and that he was beating people up on the train and that he was resisting arrest and attacking cops on the platform - all of this was as false as Obama's Muslim faith, but just as widely believed and that case had clear video of an unarmed man obeying the police and being shot in the back for it.

We need to defend this and protest the cops no matter what. There was a protest of a few scores of people at midnight last night and when the cops shot this guy (in front of a crowd of people in a plaza by the projects where people always hang out) people began throwing bottles at the pigs. When they shot the guy on the 4th of July, there was also a few dozen people who protested and actually stopped the BART trains! This is good in that there is some knee-jerk anti-police violence sentiment out there, but it's much too small for the level of violence the cops have been unleashing.

It appears that this guy was "wanted for questioning" and they claim he shot at police (but they couldn't find shells or get powder off his hands?) which I think is fishy but not beyond possibility. Who gives a fuck - since when is evading a transit fair grounds for chasing, let alone killing, any-fucking-one! Seriously, this society needs armed men to make sure that people pay $1.25 - give me a fucking break!

I do not believe it is politically useful or effective to try and "organize" or create riots, but they happen as a natural result of treating people like shit (and I'm suprized they happen as infrequently as they do considering both the amount of injustice and anger in this society) but I'm going to be fucking pissed off if the pigs kill someone else without cop cars going up in flames as a result.

[Jimmie Higgins]

If riots happen, they happen and the cops and the city leaders reap what they sow. But the people of this city, and this country need a MOVEMENT against this kind of shit, not just a burst of anger - justified as it might be.

In other Cali news, there is a hunger strike in the most brutal prison here and there have been calls for a state-wide prison strike. All of this could amount to nothing, but I think it shows the potential to build a new anti-racism movement against the "new jim-crow" of prisons and systemic police repression.

[Jimmie Higgins]

There's a protest planned for Tuesday, here's the IndyBay post:

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2011/07/17/18685020.php?show_comments=1#18685049

[ellipsis]

There are orgs like Souljah which i met at the anti-mehserle demo in walnut creek a year ago (almost to the day) and then there are other coalitions and orgs. PSL/ANSWER, RCP, ISO, Nation of Islam and so on taking part in the anti-police brutality work in SF.

I dont know all of what is going on or who organizes anti-police brutality stuff in SF/Bay Area only.

I find it interesting you don't mention Anarchists at all, just marxist groups...

Justice for Oscar Grant (http://www.revleft.com/vb/www.justiceforoscargrant.org/) is the main coalition. Most of that goes on in the East Bay so I can't report on that.

I can report that anarchists helped to shut down ONE BART STATION (an impressive feat but not "shuting down bart" as has been suggested in this thread, after the shooting of a drunk man, in which there was less than one minute of interaction before the cops shot the guy "wielding a broken bottle."

Re orginal story. The cops say the guy threw the gun on the roof, and yet it was in line of sight of them ON THE GROUND? something doesn't add up here.

[Rusty Shackleford]

I find it interesting you don't mention Anarchists at all, just marxist groups...

Justice for Oscar Grant (http://www.revleft.com/vb/www.justiceforoscargrant.org/) is the main coalition. Most of that goes on in the East Bay so I can't report on that.

I can report that anarchists helped to shut down ONE BART STATION (an impressive feat but not "shuting down bart" as has been suggested in this thread, after the shooting of a drunk man, in which there was less than one minute of interaction before the cops shot the guy "wielding a broken bottle."

Re:orginal story. The cops say the guy threw the gun on the roof, and yet it was in line of sight of them ON THE GROUND? something doesn't add up here.


its probably because im not too knowledgable on the anarchist groups in the Bay. i dont really have much contact with them. and the oscar grant demos ive been at (which is not all, only 2 or 3) i didnt see anarchist orgs.

its not like its some anti-anarchist bias. remember, i dont live in the bay so i dont see everything all the time.

i know theres the raider nation or something, FnB, HnJ, but i havent really run into them. i think possibly FnBers when i was at the ILWU picket last june.

[Ocean Seal]

There are claims the gun has been found and he was a 'person of interest' in a Seattle murder, but I have not been able to find a lot of corroboration. Does anyone else have this story?
I don't even think that's the main point. If he did throw his gun away why would they shoot him. Even if they do find the gun its still no excuse because the man was unarmed at that point. But he'll probably go away for life and the cop will get suspended for two weeks.

[ellipsis]

its probably because im not too knowledgable on the anarchist groups in the Bay. i dont really have much contact with them. and the oscar grant demos ive been at (which is not all, only 2 or 3) i didnt see anarchist orgs.

its not like its some anti-anarchist bias. remember, i dont live in the bay so i dont see everything all the time.

i know theres the raider nation or something, FnB, HnJ, but i havent really run into them. i think possibly FnBers when i was at the ILWU picket last june.

I am just giving you flak. Sac-town is a whole different realm.

[Triple A]

I was surprised to open the video and see the guy is black.

[RedSquare]

I can report that anarchists helped to shut down ONE BART STATION (an impressive feat but not "shuting down bart" as has been suggested in this thread, after the shooting of a drunk man, in which there was less than one minute of interaction before the cops shot the guy "wielding a broken bottle."

From just reading up on that shooting incident now it's amazing how little effort SF/BART cops, and probably American cops in general, put into trying to disarm the suspect or use less-than-lethal force on them, even though the US is the country which introduced methods like taser, asp batons, and pepper spray.

A cop over here (Ireland) would have to take down a guy with a knife or bottle with either a baton or pepper spray. No one gets shot.

[ellipsis]

A cop over here (Ireland) would have to take down a guy with a knife or bottle with either a baton or pepper spray. No one gets shot.

BART cops have both and a taser, so why shoot somebody armed with a bottle?

Muni cops are SFPD I and they don't have tasers.

[RedSquare]

BART cops have both and a taser, so why shoot somebody armed with a bottle?

Muni cops are SFPD I and they don't have tasers.

Tasers have their own risks to a suspects health, but certainly less than 9mm bullets. I think part of the problem might be that arming people leads to a sort of acceptance that the use of lethal force is ok, that they don't need to spend time talking down someone, just shoot them and hope for the best.

Training and selection probably also has a lot to do with it. It seems to be that they nearly hire anyone in the US to get boots on the streets.

[Die Rote Fahne]

Regardless of the circumstances, the chances of the cop that is responsible receiving anything beyond losing his job, is slim to none. Even that is unlikely.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Regardless of the circumstances, the chances of the cop that is responsible receiving anything beyond losing his job, is slim to none. Even that is unlikely.
it is highly unlikely that the cop(s) responsible will lose their jobs.

most of the time, cops are sent on paid leave after killing someone. And when its cases like these, it may be a little longer.

Mehserle (the guy who murdered Grant) got less than a year in jail for what was really a first degree murder.

[ellipsis]

there were some pretty "intense" (for the US) protests last night, this indybay article (http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2011/07/19/18685332.php) doesn't mention that it was for this shooting, but it was.

they won't be hosted forever but check out the videos here

http://www.ktvu.com/video/index.html

[fionntan]

From just reading up on that shooting incident now it's amazing how little effort SF/BART cops, and probably American cops in general, put into trying to disarm the suspect or use less-than-lethal force on them, even though the US is the country which introduced methods like taser, asp batons, and pepper spray.

A cop over here (Ireland) would have to take down a guy with a knife or bottle with either a baton or pepper spray. No one gets shot.


Id love to live were you live here.... Im thinking county la la ..

[Jeraldi]

this kind of shit is why we need to get organized for a method of protesting that does not stick to a pacifist agenda. I am not saying riots something more organized. The protests should start non violent however be ready to change tone when certain conditions happen. these conditions are up to the groups and situation in the area.

[ellipsis]

more responce/protest footage.

i6oegdJBKig

[syndicat]

but they couldn't find shells or get powder off his hands?

well, now they claim tests have found gunshot residue on his right hand. even so, protests are justified because police have had way too much impunity to shoot people...especially black men.

[RedSquare]

Id love to live were you live here.... Im thinking county la la ..

Its the back arse of nowhere, so the worst thing likely to happen is a car accident, cows on the road, or a drunk using a bottle as a weapon(very rare even). The amount of police shootings in the 26 is next to nothing, and the North, well there's a few but they're armed and it's a completely different ball game. Definately there needs to be protests and questions asked, cops do have way too much on their side while the perp has very little. Especially in the US, if the person shot happens to be a black parolee then instantly it's ok, it's like his/her life was worthless anyway in most minds so it's ok to shoot him/her. That has got to change.

[Red Commissar]

The guy had a gun, he was wanted for murdering a PREGNANT WOMAN. What if that was YOUR woman he murdered? This fucker deserved to be shot! GOD bless the SFPD! THANK YOU! Look at all the crowd praising this fucker like he did good.


Top rated comment on OP's video :rolleyes:

These people have so little knowledge of the "rule of law" this country often holds so highly and blasts others for not doing so. Never mind the fact that these guys make up shit to cover their tracks. The police were not chasing him over a previous murder, but an unpaid ticket. Seriously, the Americans who are so shocked about the way Taliban did justice seem to care little when they do the same shit here :laugh:

[Rusty Shackleford]

yes, the comments on most papers generally are racist and reactionary.

"another animal down"
"god bless __PD"
"heroes in action"
"one less monkey"


shit like that. i cant stand reading the comments anymore.

[Obs]

Top rated comment on OP's video :rolleyes:

These people have so little knowledge of the "rule of law" this country often holds so highly and blasts others for not doing so. Never mind the fact that these guys make up shit to cover their tracks. The police were not chasing him over a previous murder, but an unpaid ticket. Seriously, the Americans who are so shocked about the way Taliban did justice seem to care little when they do the same shit here :laugh:

That's because to these people, it's not a matter of the rule of law, but rather a matter of "us good, law-abiding (white) citizens" and "them no-good, lazy, criminal (black/hispanic, or in Europe, Muslim) scum." Because they identify their enemy not by class, but by arbitrary factors, they see any attack on the people they hate as a good thing - more than half of these assholes would be cheering if the police went on a shooting spree in a black neighbourhood, for instance.

[syndicat]

according to a piece in Bay Citizen:

http://www.baycitizen.org/policing/story/police-video-proves-man-shot-had-gun/

a bayview resident turned over a cellphone video that showed a silver handgun laying on the ground near the man who was shot. the video shows some guy in a hooded sweatshirt picking up the gun. this also backs up the police story.

nonetheless, as I said, the protests and booing of the police chief Wednesday nite at the community meeting are all justified because the police have had impunity to kill people and not worry about paying for it. the protests force the authorities into more transparency and more control on rogue cops.