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Princess Luna
17th July 2011, 16:51
A longtime CIA officer who spent 21 years in the Middle East is predicting that Israel will bomb Iran in the fall, dragging the United States into another major war and endangering US military and civilian personnel (and other interests) throughout the Middle East and beyond.

Earlier this week, Robert Baer appeared on the provocative KPFK Los Angeles show Background Briefing, hosted by Ian Masters. It was there that he predicted that Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu is likely to ignite a war with Iran in the very near future.

Robert Baer has had a storied career, including a stint in Iraq in the 1990s where he organized opposition to Saddam Hussein. (He was recalled after being accused of trying to organize Saddam's assassination.) Upon his retirement, he received a top decoration for meritorious service.

Baer is no ordinary CIA operative. George Clooney won an Oscar for playing a character based on Baer in the film Syriana (Baer also wrote the book).

He obviously won't name many of his sources in Israel, the United States, and elsewhere, but the few he has named are all Israeli security figures who have publically warned that Netanyahu and Defense Minister Ehud Barak are hell-bent on war.

Most former Mossad chiefs wary of Netanyahu

Baer was especially impressed by the unprecedented warning about Netanyahu's plans by former Mossad chief Meir Dagan. Dagan left the Israeli intelligence agency in September 2010. Two months ago, he predicted that Israel would attack and said that doing so would be "the stupidest thing" he could imagine. According to Haaretz:

When asked about what would happen in the aftermath of an Israeli attack Dagan said that: "It will be followed by a war with Iran. It is the kind of thing where we know how it starts, but not how it will end."

The Iranians have the capability to fire rockets at Israel for a period of months, and Hizbollah could fire tens of thousands of grad rockets and hundreds of long-range missiles, he said.


According to Ben Caspit of the Israeli daily Maariv, Dagan's blasts at Israel's political leadership are significant not only because Mossad chiefs, in office or retired, traditionally have kept their lips sealed, but also because Dagan is very conservative on security matters.

Caspit writes that Dagan is "one of the most rightwing militant people ever born here. ... When this man says that the leadership has no vision and is irresponsible, we should stop sleeping soundly at night".

Dagan describes the current Israeli government as "dangerous and irresponsible" and views speaking out against Netanyahu as his patriotic duty.

And his abhorrence of Netanyahu is not uncommon in the Israeli security establishment. AccordingtoThink Progress, citing the Forward newspaper, 12 of the 18 living ex-chiefs of Israel's two security agencies (Mossad and Shin Bet), are "either actively opposing Netanyahu's stances or have spoken out against them". Of the remaining six, two are current ministers in Netanyahu government, leaving a grand total of four out of 18 who independently support the prime minister.

In short, while Congress dutifully gives Netanyahu 29 standing ovations, the Israelis who know the most about both Netanyahu and Israel's strategic situation think he is a dangerous disaster.

But according to Baer, we ain't seen nothing yet.

There is almost "near certainty" that Netanyahu is "planning an attack [on Iran] ... and it will probably be in September before the vote on a Palestinian state. And he's also hoping to draw the United States into the conflict", Baer explained.

The Israeli air force would attack "Natanz and other nuclear facilities to degrade their capabilities. The Iranians will strike back where they can: Basra, Baghdad", he said, and even Afghanistan. Then the United States would jump into the fight with attacks on Iranian targets. "Our special forces are already looking at Iranian targets in Iraq and across the border [in Iran] which we would strike. What we're facing here is an escalation, rather than a planned out-and-out war. It's a nightmare scenario. We don't have enough troops in the Middle East to fight a war like that." Baer added, "I think we are looking into the abyss".

US may be dragged into another war

Masters asked Baer why the US military is not mobilizing to stop this war from happening. Baer responded that the military is opposed, as is former Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, who used his influence to thwart an Israeli attack during the Bush and Obama administrations. But he's gone now and "there is a warning order inside the Pentagon" to prepare for war.

It should be noted that the Iranian regime is quite capable of triggering a war with the United States through some combination of colossal stupidity and sheer hatred. In fact, as Baer explained, the Iranian Revolutionary Guard would welcome a war. They are "paranoid". They are "worried about ... what's happening to their country economically, in terms of the oil embargo and other sanctions". And they are worried about a population that increasingly despises the regime.

They need an external enemy. Because we are leaving Iraq, it's Israel. But in order to make this threat believable, they would love an attack on their nuclear facilities, love to go to war in Bahrain and Saudi Arabia and Iraq and hit us where they could. Their defense is asymmetrical. We can take out all of their armored units. It's of little difference to them, same with their surface-to-air missile sites. It would make little difference because they would use terrorism. They would do serious damage to our fleet in the Gulf.


Given all that, is it possible that the United States would allow Israel to attack when the president knows we would be forced to join the war on Israel's side?

"The president is up for re-election next year," Blair pointed out, and Israel is "truly out of control".

What happens when you see 100 F-16's approaching Iraq and there is a call to the White House [from Netanyahu] that says "We're going in, we're at war with Iran"? What does the President of the United States do? He has little influence over Bibi Netanyahu. ... We can't stop him. And he knows it.


It's a pretty frightening scenario, made infinitely more so by the fact that top Israelis (who have heard Netanyahu's thinking from Netanyahu himself) also see the future the same way. Those Israelis deserve a world of credit for sounding the warning bell loudly enough that we would hear it and do something about it - although it's impossible to know if the people who matter are paying attention.

Actually, only one person matters: the US president. If Israel bombed Iran tomorrow, Congress would forget all about their partisan differences and run, not walk, to the House and Senate floors to endorse the attack and call for unstinting support for Israel. That is what Congress always does, and will always do so long as the lobby (and the donors it directs) are the key players in making our Middle East policies.

And who knows what Obama would do? So far, he has not exactly distinguished himself when it comes to standing up to Netanyahu.

But an Israeli attack on Iran would be different. It would endanger countless Americans (in the region and here at home, too). It would kill off any economic recovery by causing oil prices to skyrocket. It would engulf us in another Middle East war. And it would threaten the existence of the state of Israel.

This is something the president needs to focus on instead of being forced to nickel and dime with the likes of Representative Eric Cantor and Senator Mitch McConnell. How incredible that these two, and their right-wing allies, have our government tied in knots in their incessant effort to elevate themselves by destroying the President of the United States. It is sickening.
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/07/201171775828434786.html

Die Rote Fahne
17th July 2011, 16:55
I hope so. What better way to see the fall of American imperialism and Zionism.

EDIT: Not being serious here...you can stop spazzing out and neg. repping me haha.

Sasha
17th July 2011, 17:17
What? you lost your mind? you are so anti-imperialist you actually hope for an imperialists bloodbad that again will kill thousands of workers?
jesus. can we finally start restricting idiots like the moron above me?

Sensible Socialist
17th July 2011, 17:19
I hope so. What better way to see the fall of American imperialism and Zionism.
You can't seriously be hoping for the bombing of thousands of people, can you? Fucked up, man. :thumbdown:

agnixie
17th July 2011, 17:26
I hope so. What better way to see the fall of American imperialism and Zionism.

Please stop posting.

Also the guy is retired CIA, you know, the guys who failed to foresee the fall of the soviet union, the rise of Khameini, 9/11, etc. I'm not sure I'd take them seriously.

Marxach-Léinínach
17th July 2011, 17:47
How the fuck else is Israel gonna finally be destroyed? Are we all supposed to wait for the progressive-minded class-conscious Israeli people to rise up? :rolleyes: I just hope any war gets done with a minimum of Israeli civilian/any Iranian casualties and maximum Israeli military casualties

Sensible Socialist
17th July 2011, 17:59
How the fuck else is Israel gonna finally be destroyed? Are we all supposed to wait for the progressive-minded class-conscious Israeli people to rise up? :rolleyes: I just hope any war gets done with a minimum of Israeli civilian/any Iranian casualties and maximum Israeli military casualties
Is this how you think Israel is going to be destroyed? I'll assure you, the only thing destroyed will be the lives of working-class citizens as the bombs continue to fall.

Conscript
17th July 2011, 18:17
What? you lost your mind? you are so anti-imperialist you actually hope for an imperialists bloodbad that again will kill thousands of workers?
jesus. can we finally start restricting idiots like the moron above me?

Like it or not, communists have relied on exploiting the inevitable wars between imperialists since 1917. You're not doing yourself any credit. If you had the power, would you stop these wars before they happen? If yes, you're the one with no brain. Communists can't be the serious anti-war alternative if there's no wars.

Things must get worse before they get better. Simple as that, and as unfair to some people as that may be.

manic expression
17th July 2011, 18:19
How the fuck else is Israel gonna finally be destroyed? Are we all supposed to wait for the progressive-minded class-conscious Israeli people to rise up? :rolleyes: I just hope any war gets done with a minimum of Israeli civilian/any Iranian casualties and maximum Israeli military casualties
Israel will fall apart about ten minutes after its US credit card stops working.

Anyway, it would be terrible if Israel was to attack Iran at this point, as it could end up being the spark to a very bad fuse. It's unlikely to happen anytime soon, I think...we've had these warnings for years (remember that US reporter back in 2005 who said the US would be "In Iran" by June of that year?). Israel has bombed Iran before, so it's definitely not out of the question, but the Zionist imperialists would have to be more drunk on crazy juice than usual to try something like that now. Regardless, whatever the imperialists think they can manage to pull off, the people of the world must show them otherwise.

Sasha
17th July 2011, 18:20
How the fuck else is Israel gonna finally be destroyed? Are we all supposed to wait for the progressive-minded class-conscious Israeli people to rise up? :rolleyes: I just hope any war gets done with a minimum of Israeli civilian/any Iranian casualties and maximum Israeli military casualties


newsflash too Marxach-leninach and co, israel has fucking nucluar weapons, the US has an shit more, iran has none, israel has the best equiped and trained standing army of the world, the only way israel will ever cease to be as an racist entity is through an uprising of its proletariat and that of the countries around it. besides iran has no intrest what so ever to want to destroy israel or visa versa, they are uther dependent on each other to let their regime remain, they are the foundations each their existences is build upon.
they will fight some bloody quarrels, launch some rockets, throw some bombs, lots of workers will die and they will both revert back to the status quo both pleased with an job well done.
you are fucking simplistic idiots who should pull your anti-imperialist heads out of your anti-imperialist arses and get some sense in your ignorant heads about how the fucking world actually fucking works.
jesus fucking christ, i have seen people at stormfront with an more realistic grasp of world politics and materialism than you fucking lot, fuck of back to your parents basement, read an fucking book and newspaper and stop being an fucking embarrassment to the left.

Thirsty Crow
17th July 2011, 18:23
One of the striking details of this article was the claim that Bara cannot control Bibi.
Yeah, it's really believable to say "but oh my, what influence does the US government have over its Middle East outpost Israel and its government?". Really credible.

I don't know if I believe this prediction. It seems to me that potential harm for Israeli people is too high. But then again, did potential harm for civilians ever stop the dogs of war when they were hell bent on initiating it?

I hope that things do not escalate and that there is no direct military conflict, but I do suspect that with the growing intra-imperialist tensions (for all you "anti-imps", Iran is part of that equation too) the situation in the Middlea East, horrid as it is, is bound to escalate in one way or another, at some point in time.

Sasha
17th July 2011, 18:28
and let me get this straight... so if i would have supported the wars of the US in Iraq and Afghanistan and i guess all the other ones like vietnam too but only because it would mean lots of US soldiers would die this would according to the anti-imps be an acceptable position for an leftist to have?

i cant believe i'm even reading this shit

Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk
17th July 2011, 18:30
Yep, things will get worse before they get better. Yet another war on the cards on the bourgeoisie's international table of imperialist warfare. Cheerleading is the anti-communist position - the communist position is to oppose all wars and side with the working class as it is them who will pay in blood for the ruling class' bombing, on all sides.

Martin Blank
17th July 2011, 18:49
This sounds an awful lot like the same "dire warning" given last year ... and the year before ... and the year before that ... and the, well, you know. We first started hearing this song-and-dance six years ago, and I'm still waiting for the needle to fall. In other words, don't take it as if it's true or accurate.


I hope so. What better way to see the fall of American imperialism and Zionism.

A word of advice: The next time you have a thought, just let it go.

Jose Gracchus
18th July 2011, 06:05
Hasn't anyone ever seen the plethora of ex-CIA, ex-SEAL, ex-word-salad-blah-blah pop books, bullshit interviews on 24/7 cable news, ad nauseum? These are the cubicle Eichmanns of the U.S. imperial apparatus, and their pensions aren't that good, so they try to hock their he-man rah-rah-MURICA bona fides to the knuckledragger market demographic and political fringe (http://www.amazon.com/Ted-White-Blue-Nugent-Manifesto/dp/1596985550) to make money, drum up some publicity, and feel important.

This shit will never happen because it would be an absolute failure without total U.S. compliance and participation. The Israeli strike aircraft and tankers cannot make it to-and-fro the strategic targets in Iran (which are defended by much more capable air defense hardware and trained men, as well as combat air patrols, than anything Hussein's tinpot kingdom ever could throw up against them in the - much closer range - Osirak reactor bombing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Opera)) because they are too far away, especially without violating Iraq's sovereignty and basically scuttling our client regime there. The targets are also well-hardened and would probably not be substantially disrupted. Ending Iran's nuclear program would require a massive all-out strategic air and missile attack across the entire fabric of Iran's military-industrial infrastructure, which of course would still be no guarantee. Russia and China would certainly come down on the side of Iran in the Security Council.

Rusty Shackleford
18th July 2011, 06:10
For the past 2 years, an israeli attack on Iran has been "imminent"
yet it never materializes. i really think it is just posturing and an attempt to generate fear.

you know, crying wolf and all that.

Robocommie
18th July 2011, 06:16
For the past 2 years, an israeli attack on Iran has been "imminent"
yet it never materializes. i really thing it is just posturing and an attempt to generate fear.

you know, crying wolf and all that.

Hah, but you of course remember what happened to the boy who cried wolf the moment the villagers stopped believing his cries for help. ;)

Rusty Shackleford
18th July 2011, 06:23
Hah, but you of course remember what happened to the boy who cried wolf the moment the villagers stopped believing his cries for help. ;)
i guess, let me make a modification.

Its like crying wolf, but Iran, unlike the boy, isnt crying wolf constantly. whereas the wolf (the imperialists and israel) are doing all the crying that they are goign to attack.

i guess you could also call it 'sabre rattling'

Revy
18th July 2011, 07:12
How many times have predictions like this been made?

But then again, I don't discount the possibility.

Le Socialiste
18th July 2011, 09:22
newsflash too Marxach-leninach and co, israel has fucking nucluar weapons, the US has an shit more, iran has none, israel has the best equiped and trained standing army of the world, the only way israel will ever cease to be as an racist entity is through an uprising of its proletariat and that of the countries around it. besides iran has no intrest what so ever to want to destroy israel or visa versa, they are uther dependent on each other to let their regime remain, they are the foundations each their existences is build upon.
they will fight some bloody quarrels, launch some rockets, throw some bombs, lots of workers will die and they will both revert back to the status quo both pleased with an job well done.
you are fucking simplistic idiots who should pull your anti-imperialist heads out of your anti-imperialist arses and get some sense in your ignorant heads about how the fucking world actually fucking works.
jesus fucking christ, i have seen people at stormfront with an more realistic grasp of world politics and materialism than you fucking lot, fuck of back to your parents basement, read an fucking book and newspaper and stop being an fucking embarrassment to the left.


While I agree with much of what you've been saying, back off. You may disagree with Joe's and the other's posts to the point in which you're raving mad - ;) - but your little rant at the end is just as embarrassing.

As for this article, an attack on Iranian soil by Israeli forces has been considered imminent for years now. I doubt any such action will happen in the near future (not to say it won't ever happen).

Crux
18th July 2011, 09:40
How the fuck else is Israel gonna finally be destroyed? Are we all supposed to wait for the progressive-minded class-conscious Israeli people to rise up? :rolleyes: I just hope any war gets done with a minimum of Israeli civilian/any Iranian casualties and maximum Israeli military casualties
Do you also believe the invasion of Iraq was the only way to remove Saddam Hussein? This is, of course, assuming you are not a backer of that old U.S-collaborator butcher as well. Your discounting of independent working class action in favour of imperialist war is oh so telling.

~Spectre
18th July 2011, 09:48
It's a last ditch effort by Israel's propagandists. They routinely leak to American sources with the hopes of making the following argument: 1) It will happen. (2) Iran will think the U.S. did it anyway and attack U.S. interests. (C) Might as well attack them with Israel and get it over with.

It's all mostly nonsense. While Israel would love to see Iran bombed, Israel's current policies cannot continue without the support of the United States. They'd be economically sanctioned within 10 minutes of losing U.S. support, and would no longer be able to afford even a fraction of their armed forces.

The U.S. itself has made it clear that it doesn't want open war with Iran, as that could hurt U.S. interests in Iraq, cause steeper than normal casualties if reports of Iranian missile capabilities are true, and potentially cause the overthrow of the Saudi state when people realize that Israel's fighters flew through Saudi Arabia. All of this of course risking the meltdown of the global economy.

Netanyahu on his end, even assuming it's his sole decision to make, has already tasted the consequences of defying the United States. On a much more minor scale, he defied the alleged peace between Israel and Jordan, when he sent Mossad agents into Jordan to assassinate Khaled Mishal (a Hamas leader). Clinton forced him to not only release the antidote (Mishal had been poisoned) but accept Jordan's demands for a face saving measure of releasing various Hamas operatives in exchange for getting the captured Mossad agents back. Scuttlebut, some from Netanyahu himself, suggests that Clinton then made a few phone calls and sabotaged Netanyahu's reelection attempts.

Finally regarding doing it to distract from the recognition of a Palestinian state, I doubt that too. I don't see the value for Israel in making the entire world resent the Israeli government more than it already does.

maylocnuocnano
18th July 2011, 10:17
i hope that it's scary thought but it's not going to happen. Israel cannot ignore Iran's nuclear potential :). anyway, meaningless war and feel poor the innocent civilians

Bandito
18th July 2011, 10:27
Not gonna happen, but it's useful topic to see how many idiots we have on this board...

Obs
18th July 2011, 10:59
How the fuck else is Israel gonna finally be destroyed? Are we all supposed to wait for the progressive-minded class-conscious Israeli people to rise up? :rolleyes: I just hope any war gets done with a minimum of Israeli civilian/any Iranian casualties and maximum Israeli military casualties

hahaha working class action fuck that shit

Fuck off and stop making MLs look like bourgie mouthbreathers with no class perspective.

Jimmie Higgins
18th July 2011, 11:54
How the fuck else is Israel gonna finally be destroyed? Are we all supposed to wait for the progressive-minded class-conscious Israeli people to rise up? :rolleyes:

How...

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2l7ApaS-ZoI/Tc2RiIC5UKI/AAAAAAAApqk/vtBA6hPNtnI/s1600/Egypt_Tahrir-SquareMay13.jpg

^here's a clue.

No, probably not the "Israeli working class" (I don't think anyone here argued for that) but the developing revolutions in North Africa and the middle east have a better chance for both progressive change in Iran and the neutralizing or ending the Israeli apartheid system than a war. A war (excluding some horrible nuclear attack) would probably only increase the power of Israel to repress people in Palistine (for "national security" of course) and draw people into the arms of the Iranian ruling class for defense.

danyboy27
18th July 2011, 14:21
loss of soldier lives didnt stopped the brittish and the french from wrecking africa and the middle east into bits.

for an imperialist power to loose a war is merely an educational lesson, target practice if you will.

sure they will loose ton of lives and equipements, but the knowledge gained from this conflict is invaluable, and it will stimulate the war economy.

Sinister Cultural Marxist
18th July 2011, 14:33
The part that makes it seem credible is the psychology of Netenyahu. Clearly, war with Iran would go against Israel's interests, and traditional Israeli hardliners like Ariel Sharon or the Mossad chief Dagan mentioned in the article would not make a blunder so incredibly stupid. They would know such a move would be a disaster for the country and for Zionism in general, but the current PM is a very dangerous man in a way that the other hardliners aren't (or weren't, considering Sharon's in a vegetative state).

Netenyahu seems more focused on becoming the next Winston Churchill, so he is looking for a new "Naziism" to fight. Such a fight in his mind would save the legitimacy of the country and allow it to continue settlements unabated without foreign interference. Of course, it would just lead to skyrocketing oil prices and a collapse of the world economy, as well as an unpredictable military situation in the Middle East that could possibly lead to nuclear warfare. I think we can only hope that the ex-intelligence officials warning against this are wrong, but there's the distinct chance (however remote) that they're not. Perhaps, to use an earlier parable mentioned in the thread, the wolf really will come.

Dr Mindbender
18th July 2011, 14:41
How the fuck else is Israel gonna finally be destroyed? Are we all supposed to wait for the progressive-minded class-conscious Israeli people to rise up? :rolleyes: I just hope any war gets done with a minimum of Israeli civilian/any Iranian casualties and maximum Israeli military casualties

That wont be how a conflict with Israel plays out. Youre forgetting that Israel has nukes and this is precisely why they've been stockpiling them. They will consume Iran's cities with mushroom clouds (with US sanction) before Israel allows that to happen.

Dr Mindbender
18th July 2011, 14:45
i hope that it's scary thought but it's not going to happen. Israel cannot ignore Iran's nuclear potential :). anyway, meaningless war and feel poor the innocent civilians

'Potential' being the keyword. Israel HAS nukes.

While that remains the state of affairs they can pretty much ignore that.

Dr Mindbender
18th July 2011, 14:53
Not only that, if Iran came off worse against Israel in a conflict (which it will) the ensuing power vacuum would create the precedence the USA needs to replace the Islamic state with yet another complicit, proxy puppet government in the region.

Die Rote Fahne
18th July 2011, 17:19
I wasn't being serious. Jesus, folks need to relax. Usually my sarcasm comes through to at least one person...

RadioRaheem84
18th July 2011, 17:24
Israel did attack Iraq's nuclear program during the 80s I believe.

I could see them doing it again to Iran, though I doubt it.

danyboy27
18th July 2011, 17:25
I wasn't being serious. Jesus, folks need to relax. Usually my sarcasm comes through to at least one person...

use the sarcasm tag next time, its hard to identify it otherwise, especially on revleft. :D

Die Rote Fahne
18th July 2011, 17:27
use the sarcasm tag next time, its hard to identify it otherwise, especially on revleft. :D
I shall.

Sasha
18th July 2011, 17:52
While I agree with much of what you've been saying, back off. You may disagree with Joe's and the other's posts to the point in which you're raving mad - ;) - but your little rant at the end is just as embarrassing.



yeah yeah, i know, as an admin i shouldnt explode like that but after months of being harrased by the anti-imp lunatics (and that is an whole other thing than actual anti-imperialist socialists like i all hope we are) i had enough, here i am constentantly being accused of supporting imperialist wars that i dont support and the same lunatics come out openly cheerleading those actual imperilists bloodbads out of some twisted "as long as there are dead gi's its an good thing"? sorry?
so yeah, shouldnt have said that like that, still mean every word of it.

ellipsis
18th July 2011, 18:01
lol look at the similar threads below:

Israel is almost ready to launch a major attack against Iran (http://www.revleft.com/vb/israel-almost-ready-t129976/index.html) 25th February 2010

Israel will attack Iran on its own (http://www.revleft.com/vb/israel-attack-iran-t67628/index.html) 25th December 2007

Israel plans to attack Iran (http://www.revleft.com/vb/israel-plans-attack-t30349/index.html) 30th May 2005

This time.... THEY... MEAN.... BUSINESS!

ellipsis
18th July 2011, 21:55
yeah yeah, i know, as an admin i shouldnt explode like that

Do i need to issue a Verbal Warning?:D

Dr Mindbender
18th July 2011, 22:00
The worrying thing is there is still people here that genuinely think this militaristic wet dream is desirable.

Iraultzaile Ezkerreko
19th July 2011, 23:28
I think the point the article tries to make is that, whereas the threats of the past were merely posturing to get advantageous positions in negotiations or relations with the US; ex-security apparatus people actually believe Bibi is deranged enough(and encouraged by that sociopath Defense Minister of his) to do it. Now, whether or not THAT is credible is the argument we should be having.

t.shonku
22nd July 2011, 06:41
Relax there won't be any war between Iran and Israel !

The real war is going to happen in Africa and South East Asia.