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ÑóẊîöʼn
15th July 2011, 17:25
Is medical psychiatry a scam?

A while back I did some research on the genetics of mental illness, and was appalled to discover some disturbing things about medical psychiatry (by medical psychiatry I mean psychiatry centered on drug therapy rather than talk therapy). First of all, for the vast majority of drugs used to combat mental illnessand especially depressionthe doctors had no idea how they worked, yet they pretended they did. Patients were regularly told, when prescribed antidepressants like SSRIs (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors; Prozac is the classic specimen) that their depression was due to a chemical imbalance in the brain. SSRIs, for example, increase the amount of the neurotransmitter serotonin in the synapses (gaps) between neurons by preventing its reabsorption by the neurons. Because these drugs seemed to work (more on that below), doctors and pharmaceutical companies blithely concluded that depression resulted from a deficit of serotonin. But thats ludicrous, for just because a drug alleviates a symptom doesnt allow you to conclude that the symptom was due to the deficit of that drug. Its like saying that headaches are caused by a deficit of aspirin! As Marcia Angell notes in her reviews below, . . . instead of developing a drug to treat an abnormality, an abnormality was postulated to fit a drug.

An acquaintance of mine, visiting a psychiatrist for depression, was told that her brain was wired up wrong! That verges on medical malpractice.

I also learned that the genetics of mental illness is a subject rife with uncertainty and unreproduceable results. For every study localizing a gene or gene region responsible for a condition like depression, there was a counter-study showing no effect at all. Nevertheless, medical students in psychiatry are taught that the major mental illnesses have a genetic basis (Ive seen the textbooks).

Despite all this, psychiatry continues to be increasingly medicalized, that is, talk therapy is replaced by drug therapy (doctors can make a lot more money prescribing drugs than talking, for during the hour occupied by a talk therapy session, a psychiatrist could see and prescribe meds to three or four patients). And pharmaceutical companies make millions of dollars prescribing drugs for mental illnesses, so they continually try to expand the range of conditions that count as drug-requiring illnesses, including obsessive-compulsive disorder, various attention-deficit syndromes, and so on.

The whole mess is encapsulated in the book used by doctors to diagnose mental illnesses, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagnostic_and_Statistical_Manual_of_Mental_Disord ers), which is now undergoing its fifth revision. If you ever get a chance to look at it, do. Youll find that diagnosis is based on conforming to a certain number of symptoms in a numbered list. To be diagnosed with a major depressive episode, for example, you need to have five out of the nine symptoms described by the DSM (http://www.falseallegations.com/dsm-dprj.htm). But what if you have only three or four? Then you dont get your meds. Its all quite bizarre, and I concluded that the whole drug/genetics/diagnosis nexus is driven by three things: the desire of psychiatrists to be like regular doctors who treat well defined illnesses with well defined medications, the nebulous and ill-defined character of mental illnesses, and the desire of pharmaceutical companies to milk the public out of as many dollars as possible. This does not deny, of course, that mental disorders are often serious and life-threatening conditions that require some type of treatment or intervention.

And these conclusionsand other ones just as direare shared by Marcia Angell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcia_Angell), author of two new articles in The New York Review of Books The Epidemic of mental illness: Why? (http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2011/jun/23/epidemic-mental-illness-why/?pagination=false) and The illusions of psychiatry (http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2011/jul/14/illusions-of-psychiatry/?pagination=false) (theyre free, so have a look). Angell is a pathologist with an M.D., studied microbiology, and was the first woman editor of The New England Journal of Medicine. Her piece is basically an essay centered on four books, The Emperors New Drugs: Exploding the Antidepressant Myth, by Irving Kirsch, Anatomy of an Epidemic: Magic Bullets, Psychiatric Drugs, and the Astonishing Rise of Mental Illness in America, by Robert Whitaker, Unhinged: The Trouble with PsychiatryA Doctors Revelation about a Profession in Crisis, by Daniel Carlat, and the latest DSM, Fourth Edition, Text Revision (DSM-IV-TR), published by the American Psychiatric Association.

Antidepressants and anti-anxiety drugs are so widely prescribed in America that if youre not taking them yourself, you certainly know someone who is, so you owe it to yourself to have a look at these articles. Among Angells eye-opening statements and conclusions are these:

- Mental disorders are increasing at a furious rate in America, especially for children. While 1 in 184 Americans qualified for government disability aid for mental illness in 1987, the number more than doubled (1 in 76) by 2007. In children, the rise was an astonishing 35-fold! This almost certainly reflects not a genuine jump in disorders, but an increase in the frequency of diagnosis.

- As we all know, psychiatric talk therapy has been largely supplanted by the use of drugs. Medical students are now given minimal training in talk therapy and maximal training in how to prescribe drugs.

- There is no substantive evidence that mental illness is caused by chemical imbalances in the brain.

- Antidepressants are far less effective than people think: in fact, they may not be effective at all. Trials are typically only a month or two long, and I am not aware of any long-term tests of these drugs. More disturbing is that the drugs are barely better than placebos. Pharmaceutical companies doing blind testing of antidepressants are required to submit only two blind clinical studies with positive results, and these could be out of a much larger number of studies showing no positive results. That, in fact, seems to be the case. When Irving Kirsch investigated the studies, he found that while antidepressants were three times as effective as no treatment at all, they were only marginally better than placebo drugs, which cured depression at a rate 82% that of real antidepressants. Moreover, when you look at the degree of improvement of antidepressants over placebos, the difference, though statistically significant, is miniscule. Few people taking antidepressants know these depressing statistics.

- Doctors observed that other drugs with no effect on serotonin, like synthetic thyroid hormone, also appeared to relieve depression. What these drugs had in common was that they all had side effects. Was it the side effects, then, that helped depression? Sure enough, when doctors used placebos that had side effects (active placebos; one of these is atropine) rather than inactive placebos, they found no difference between antidepressant and placebo. A reasonable conclusion from this study is that patients, when they experience side effects, think that theyve broken the blind test, and are taking the real drug. They then improve simply as a result of realizing that theyre taking something thats supposed to help them.

- Whitakers book reaches an even more depressing conclusion. He realized that the natural history of mental illness has changed over the decades: while schizophrenia and depression, for instance, used to recur episodically, separated by periods of normality, now they are chronic and lifelong. Whitaker concludes that psychoactive drugs actually change the brain in a way that prolongs and intensifies mental disorders, for the brain tries to compensate, ineffectually, for the chemical imbalances induced by drugs. Here is a really disturbing passage from Whitakers book:

Imagine that a virus suddenly appears in our society that makes people sleep twelve, fourteen hours a day. Those infected with it move about somewhat slowly and seem emotionally disengaged. Many gain huge amounts of weighttwenty, forty, sixty, and even one hundred pounds. Often their blood sugar levels soar, and so do their cholesterol levels. A number of those struck by the mysterious illnessincluding young children and teenagersbecome diabetic in fairly short order. The federal government gives hundreds of millions of dollars to scientists at the best universities to decipher the inner workings of this virus, and they report that the reason it causes such global dysfunction is that it blocks a multitude of neurotransmitter receptors in the braindopaminergic, serotonergic, muscarinic, adrenergic, and histaminergic. All of those neuronal pathways in the brain are compromised. Meanwhile, MRI studies find that over a period of several years, the virus shrinks the cerebral cortex, and this shrinkage is tied to cognitive decline. A terrified public clamors for a cure.

Now such an illness has in fact hit millions of American children and adults. We have just described the effects of Eli Lillys best-selling antipsychotic, Zyprexa.

- The DSM book resulted from a deliberate decision by the American Psychiatric Association (APA) to remedicalize psychiatry in the late 1970s. Each time it is revised, the number of disorders included increases drastically: the latest has 365, more than doubling the 182 in the DSM-II. Angell notes a serious lack of scientific underpinning:

Not only did the DSM become the bible of psychiatry, but like the real Bible, it depended a lot on something akin to revelation. There are no citations of scientific studies to support its decisions. That is an astonishing omission, because in all medical publications, whether journal articles or textbooks, statements of fact are supposed to be supported by citations of published scientific studies. (There are four separate sourcebooks for the current edition of the DSM that present the rationale for some decisions, along with references, but that is not the same thing as specific references.) It may be of much interest for a group of experts to get together and offer their opinions, but unless these opinions can be buttressed by evidence, they do not warrant the extraordinary deference shown to the DSM.

- The connection between drug companies and psychiatrists has always been congenialI would call it corrupt. The companies pay for the doctors to go to conferences, often in vacation-y places, they sponsor their research, and give them huge fees as consultants and speakers. Angell notes that in states that must reveal financial connections between drug companies and doctors, psychiatrists get more largesse than any other group of physicians. And 20% of the funding of the American Psychiatric Association (which, of course, publishes the DSM) comes from drug companies.

- More than half of the contributors to the new version of the DSM (95/170) have financial ties to drug companies, including all of the contributors to the sections on mood disorders and schizophrenia.

- Drug companies also give a ton of money to patient advocacy groups, like the National Alliance on Mental Illnessesgroups whose agendas include a strong push for drug therapy for mental disorders.

- Perhaps the most disturbing thing in Angells articles is the huge increase in drug therapy for mental disorders in children, who are often treated with drugs not approved by the FDA for their diagnosed disorder. Juvenile bipolar disorder increased 40-fold between 1993 and 2004, and autism more than fivefold. As Angell notes, Ten percent of ten-year-old boys now take daily stimulants for ADHDattention deficit/hyperactivity disorderand 500,000 children take antipsychotic drugs.

Angell and the authors she reviews describe further disturbing things, like the drug industrys illegal push to get doctors to prescribe drugs for conditions for which those drugs havent been approved by the FDA (American Food and Drug Administration). If you are a patient, or know someone who is, you must have a look. These articles, and the data presented by Angell, have convinced me more than ever that medical psychiatry is largely a scam, a rotten-to-the-core coalition between psychiatrists and pharmaceutical companies. Now I know that many psychiatrists are deeply motivated to help their patients, for mental disorders are among the most frustrating and recalcitrant conditions faced by doctors, and many patients indeed need urgent medical or therapeutic attention. But the way its being done now is not only ineffective, but positively harmfulalthough lucrative for doctors and drug companies. The few researchers and psychiatrists crying out against the madness, as in the three books under review, are largely shouting in the wilderness.

UPDATE: To the readers who are taking medications for mental disorders, do not take this post as an incitement to quit your medications. I hope nobody interpreted my piece this way, but I wanted to make that crystal clear. I am not a physician and am merely recounting my own experience, conclusions, and the article of Dr. Angell. But I do urge you to read that article, whether or not youre a patient.

I would add, though, that personal testimony that a drug has helped a person is not the same thing as positive results in a double-blind study. Many people claim that they have been helped by homeopathic medicine or other cures that cant be documented scientifically. The placebo effect (which must be operative in homeopathy) is well documented.

Finally, for similar views on the self-serving behavior of the pharmaceutical industry with respect to treating mental illness, see Frederick Crewss (open-access) 2007 NYRB piece, Talking back to Prozac (http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2007/dec/06/talking-back-to-prozac/), a review of three books on psychiatry and Big Pharma.


I've always had my suspicions about psychiatry as currently practiced, and this unfortunately confirms some of the worst.

I recall someone mentioning elsewhere on this forum that our modern technological society is damaging our mental health. This seems not to be the case - rather, overdiagnosis, shitty science, and the corruption that allows both to fester are what is at fault, in addition to the usual iniquities of the capitalist price system.

Ocean Seal
15th July 2011, 17:31
I've always had my suspicions about psychiatry as currently practiced, and this unfortunately confirms some of the worst.

I recall someone mentioning elsewhere on this forum that our modern technological society is damaging our mental health. This seems not to be the case - rather, overdiagnosis, shitty science, and the corruption that allows both to fester are what is at fault, in addition to the usual iniquities of the capitalist price system.
I would expect you to be the last member to post this article. But as you said in your post, overdiagnosis, shitty science and corruption are more responsible than psychiatry itself.

Mental illnesses exist in the same way that physical diseases exist and both needed to be treated with adequate seriousness. That being said I really don't understand why all doctors aren't subject to the same scrutiny as are the psychiatrists. The problems which you stated such as corruption are plenty prevalent in other areas of medicine. There is also a great degree of overdiagnosis, combined with every test under the sun to get the most money out of patients. But I wouldn't argue that medicine or psychiatric medicine is a scam, but rather that there is a significant amount of corruption in that field which is a symptom of capitalism.

Sasha
15th July 2011, 18:00
yeah, no one in their right mind (pun intended) would argue that the way psychiatry and esp psychiatric medicine in the big bucks sectors is handled at the moment, especially in the US, is not wrong and rotten and corrupt but saying its an scam in its foundations edges you pretty close to the Scientology crowd.
pointing at depression and ADHD threatment to make an point about psychiatry is like looking at the hundreds of thousands of breastimplants and saying plastic surgery is useless while disregarding the thousands of maimed accident and war survivors who benefited from reconstructive surgery

ÑóẊîöʼn
15th July 2011, 18:04
I would expect you to be the last member to post this article. But as you said in your post, overdiagnosis, shitty science and corruption are more responsible than psychiatry itself.

Are you sure you've read it beyond the title? Because when you say...


Mental illnesses exist in the same way that physical diseases exist and both needed to be treated with adequate seriousness.

After an article in which the author clearly stated:

"Now I know that many psychiatrists are deeply motivated to help their patients, for mental disorders are among the most frustrating and recalcitrant conditions faced by doctors, and many patients indeed need urgent medical or therapeutic attention."

... it makes me think you didn't actually read it beyond the title. At no point did I or Jerry Coyne lay the blame at the feet of the psychiatric profession as a whole.


That being said I really don't understand why all doctors aren't subject to the same scrutiny as are the psychiatrists. The problems which you stated such as corruption are plenty prevalent in other areas of medicine. There is also a great degree of overdiagnosis, combined with every test under the sun to get the most money out of patients.

It seems to me that with mental health the problem is exacerbated by by the simple virtue of our brains being one of the most complicated organs on the planet. Other organs and tissues are relatively simple by comparison, so it is easier to tease out the complex chain of events that constitute biochemical processes.

Whereas we have a fairly good understanding of say, the human heart, the human brain is still mostly a "black box" in neurochemical terms.


But I wouldn't argue that medicine or psychiatric medicine is a scam, but rather that there is a significant amount of corruption in that field which is a symptom of capitalism.

Hence the question mark. It's a title designed to pique interest, not provide all the answers.

Ocean Seal
15th July 2011, 18:17
Are you sure you've read it beyond the title? Because when you say...

I did which is why I said that you were correct in saying that the flaws in the practice of psychiatry don't stem from psychiatry itself but rather from corruption and capitalism. And while the brain is more complex, the article does indeed take an almost dismissive stance towards psychiatry because exact mechanisms can't be postulated for the working's of many of these medications. Which has always been a problem in psychiatry but it doesn't invalidate the fact that for something like Bi-polar disorder taking lithium will help. The author is right in claiming that not all of these diseases have a genetic basis or a known genetic basis, but again like in all fields of study if there is a prevailing current of thought sometimes the opposition is not mentioned.

ÑóẊîöʼn
15th July 2011, 18:49
I did which is why I said that you were correct in saying that the flaws in the practice of psychiatry don't stem from psychiatry itself but rather from corruption and capitalism. And while the brain is more complex, the article does indeed take an almost dismissive stance towards psychiatry because exact mechanisms can't be postulated for the working's of many of these medications. Which has always been a problem in psychiatry but it doesn't invalidate the fact that for something like Bi-polar disorder taking lithium will help.

Where did the author deny the efficacy of lithium? What Coyne is pointing out is that the results that show the efficacy of best-selling medications such as fluoxetine are cherry-picked by the drug companies while at the same time independant tests show it to be little better than placebo. This means that even if we can't tease out all the neurochemical complexities, we can still perform empirical tests. This has been done so for fluoxetine and other drugs pushed by the companies, and they have been found wanting.

Also, things like the DSM having no citations are worrying signs, to say the least.


The author is right in claiming that not all of these diseases have a genetic basis or a known genetic basis, but again like in all fields of study if there is a prevailing current of thought sometimes the opposition is not mentioned.

It's definately a problem if the "prevailing current of thought" is based on no evidence.

Ocean Seal
15th July 2011, 19:09
Where did the author deny the efficacy of lithium? What Coyne is pointing out is that the results that show the efficacy of best-selling medications such as fluoxetine are cherry-picked by the drug companies while at the same time independant tests show it to be little better than placebo. This means that even if we can't tease out all the neurochemical complexities, we can still perform empirical tests. This has been done so for fluoxetine and other drugs pushed by the companies, and they have been found wanting.

Also, things like the DSM having no citations are worrying signs, to say the least.

Again this is not a problem of psychiatry alone, it is the fact that the industry is controlled for profit and the bourgeois interests are more than willing to fund shoddy science. There have been cases of medication outside of psychiatry which haven't been very effective or have come with a number of side-effects. Its not a psychiatry issue, it's a capitalism issue.



It's definately a problem if the "prevailing current of thought" is based on no evidence.
I wouldn't say that it's no evidence. Its just not conclusive evidence as the article says. And scientists have adhered to other prevailing currents of thought with less evidence (one example being the ether theory debunked by Einstein).

¿Que?
15th July 2011, 19:15
This is an interesting look into something I've suspected all along. I take meds, but mostly because people I know and love swear by them and supposedly can tell when I'm not on mine (although not always, we've come to find out).

I generally agree with the article. I don't think the medications are as effective as they're making it out to be. Furthermore, as the article suggests, the medications may induce depression if you stop taking them. To me it seems a bit like an addiction.

I found this part to be interesting:

Its all quite bizarre, and I concluded that the whole drug/genetics/diagnosis nexus is driven by three things: the desire of psychiatrists to be like regular doctors who treat well defined illnesses with well defined medications, the nebulous and ill-defined character of mental illnesses, and the desire of pharmaceutical companies to milk the public out of as many dollars as possible.
I don't necessarily disagree with psychiatrists wanting to be like "regular" doctors. In fact, I would encourage it. The fact is, when people separate the behavioral sciences from the natural and physical sciences they are doing so based on two assumptions: the first is that the natural sciences are more methodologically rigorous than the behavioral and social sciences. Although some may disagree, I believe this to be complete bullshit. The social and behavioral sciences are just as methodologically rigorous as the natural and physical sciences. The principles of empirical investigation between the two are almost identical, both subscribing to the same basic philosophy of investigation. The issue comes up because the social sciences and to a certain degree the behavioral sciences, do tend to focus more heavily on philosophical matters with respect to epistemological problems, than in the natural and physical sciences (with the exception maybe of some deep theoretical physics). That said, I believe the first assumption is invalid. The second assumption, albeit more valid, is still not a reason to assume an irreconcilable gulf between these two (or four) areas of inquiry. That is, that the social and behavioral sciences, being focused on society and human behavior must oftentimes include the observer within the subject of inquiry. This is a presents a problem for objectivity for obvious reasons, however, this assumption is predicated on the notion that there is such a distinction to be made between observer and subject, or subject and object. Indeed, the fact that we are part of the natural world is inescapable, and this in itself creates a problem for any type of objective position from which to assess the natural world.

However, in spite of this, I am not lead to agree with psychiatry and in fact agree very much with the article. The fact that the DSM is uncited, something that I did not know until I read this article, deserves more scrutiny, and I am certain to grill, at some point or another, some of the people who insist on these medications, particularly, those that insist that I take them.

ÑóẊîöʼn
15th July 2011, 19:29
Again this is not a problem of psychiatry alone,

A canard that neither myself nor Jerry Coyne endorse, so please stop repeating it.


I wouldn't say that it's no evidence. Its just not conclusive evidence as the article says. And scientists have adhered to other prevailing currents of thought with less evidence (one example being the ether theory debunked by Einstein).

Do you really think we should be handing out SSRIs like Halloween candy on the basis of inconclusive results?

Also, ether theory wasn't debunked by Einstein, the Michelson-Morley experiment in 1887 beat him to it.

Ocean Seal
15th July 2011, 20:12
Do you really think we should be handing out SSRIs like Halloween candy on the basis of inconclusive results?

No, of course not. But depression does exist and claiming that it is being overdiagnosed today because in the past it was less so. In the past a large part of low diagnosis could be derived from the stigma of going to a psychiatrist. And I wouldn't say that SSRI's have had inconclusive results. A good part of psychiatry is correct, and although the specific pathways can't be sorted out, I don't think that's enough to dismiss the data.
And yes there is some unreliable data, but I'm just saying, that happens in every field, and isn't so much the problem of psychiatry as a science, but the power of money.



Also, ether theory wasn't debunked by Einstein, the Michelson-Morley experiment in 1887 beat him to it.
Michelson-Morley played an important part in presenting evidence against the ether theory. But they're null result didn't disprove the ether, as they often questioned their results. But it was a good point, I almost forgot about the experiments in measuring the speed of light prior to Einstein almost entirely.

ÑóẊîöʼn
15th July 2011, 21:01
No, of course not. But depression does exist and claiming that it is being overdiagnosed today because in the past it was less so. In the past a large part of low diagnosis could be derived from the stigma of going to a psychiatrist.

That does not convincly explain why diagnoses for children have increased 35-fold, especially when also considers how the number of disorders in the DSM has increased subtantially, including such "disorders" as Oppositional Defiant Disorder, the description of which comes scarily close to medicalising youthful rebelliousness. My hypothesis with stuff like ODD is that psychiatrists are pressured not just by pharmaceutical companies, but by conformist parents and caregivers who haven't the foggiest clue how to deal with young people who don't follow their every order to the letter.


And I wouldn't say that SSRI's have had inconclusive results.

Maybe this meta-analysis (http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pmed.0050045) of all clinical trials submitted to the FDA will change your mind.


A good part of psychiatry is correct, and although the specific pathways can't be sorted out, I don't think that's enough to dismiss the data.

As shown above, it is not necessary to know the specific pathways in order to test the effectiveness of medication.


And yes there is some unreliable data, but I'm just saying, that happens in every field, and isn't so much the problem of psychiatry as a science, but the power of money.

I've not denied that it happens elsewhere, but there are other factors at play here which mark out psychiatry as a notable offender. Diagnoses for Juvenile bipolar disorder increased 40-fold between 1993 and 2004. If this happened with say, juvenile diabetes, one would hope that our response would not be to use poorly-tested drugs to treat such a condition. Of course, it helps that conditions such as diabetes have more clear physiological symptoms than depression, the organs, tissues and processes involved are simpler and easier to study directly, and such conditions also lack the complex social dimensions that mental illnesses have.

To summarise, with fields like psychiatry we have to be extra vigilant because it is much easier to "cheat" - symptoms such as a rash or metabolic dysfunction are much harder to simply mask rather than actually treating the underlying condition.


Michelson-Morley played an important part in presenting evidence against the ether theory. But they're null result didn't disprove the ether, as they often questioned their results. But it was a good point, I almost forgot about the experiments in measuring the speed of light prior to Einstein almost entirely.

Was there ever any actual "evidence" for the lumineferous ether in the first place? Because without it I would say that the Michelson-Morley experiment conclusively falsified it as a hypothesis.

bcbm
15th July 2011, 21:51
related:
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/07/20117313948379987.html

Salyut
15th July 2011, 23:02
related:
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/07/20117313948379987.html

I was given Seroquel for anxiety. Drooled on myself, slept for 18 hours, and I wasn't able to sleep without it.

Fuck. That. Shit.

MarxSchmarx
19th July 2011, 05:56
In reading through a lot of those links, there was really little mention of the comparatively rigorous statistical studies that have been done for decades that show how many commonly prescribed medications repeatedly help people control the symptoms of mental illness quite repeatedly.

One can of course ask whether people need to take medication to deal with seemingly commonplace experiences, although I think a lot of criticisms along these veins have much more to do with cultural prejudice around mental illness than anything else.

But when one looks at the evidence, there is wide variation in the success of talk therapy. Certain behavioral therapies like helping people overcome irrational phobias have been proven effective, but all in all pharmacology has proven more successful on a regular basis as a generality at helping people treat mental illness.

And yes there are probably plenty of ulterior motives for why pharmacological treatment of mental illnesses have become ubiquitous. Not least is the cost factor, although it is not clear to me why a patient must prefer spending hundreds of hours talking to someone on a couch rather than simply taking a pill. In medicine, where the focus is on patient well being and effective, evidence-based care, ulterior motives are to some extent irrelevant. If something works, adopt it. If something doesn't work, no matter how elegent and theoretically sound, it should be abandoned.

The evidence for psychotic medications being considerably more effective for a wider range of conditions and illnesses than traditional talk therapy is sound. True, there is as yet little mechanistic basis for understanding why this is so. But just because we don't have a reductionist story to tell for why a pill makes you feel better doesn't mean it does not work.

Jose Gracchus
19th July 2011, 06:26
Personally, I think a huge volume of psychological and mental problems are basically the human wreckage of living in an alienated class society, and a lot of fully human qualities must be medicalized into 'disorders' because they in one way or another, interfere with your efficient functioning as a wage slave and commodity dump consumer. I do not think its all bullshit, but I suspect in a communist society both the number of 'disorders', and their rate of occurrence would plummet, as would the use of psychotropic drugs to treat them.

As society becomes more degraded and competitive, medicalization and drug administration skyrockets. Is this matched by commiserate improvements in society at large? No. I think this has to do with the fact that in the last 20-30 years there's been a real retrogression, combined conveniently with a way of turning mental health into an embarassing and messy system of public provision, to a means of extremely lucrative corporate profit.

Demogorgon
19th July 2011, 09:38
These kind of articles are actually pretty irresponsible because despite the disclaimer at the end telling people that it is not meant to discourage people from taking their medication it is clearly going to do exactly that. Anyway there are some obvious flaws in the article that I think must be pointed out. The article obviously focuses on America, but once you extend some of the arguments to Britain you realise that it cannot be supported. For instance it claims that Doctors prefer medication to "talk therapy" because there is more money for them in it, but British Doctors don't make money in that way. They get their salary and that is that. Yet they make heavy use of anti-depressants. Indeed if memory serves Inverness is the place, or at least one of the places, with the highest rate of mental illness diagnoses in the world and is awash with medication for it. That can hardly be put down to a money making conspiracy on the part of doctors.

Anyway there are some further glaring flaws in this article. Take for instance:
ut thats ludicrous, for just because a drug alleviates a symptom doesnt allow you to conclude that the symptom was due to the deficit of that drug. Its like saying that headaches are caused by a deficit of aspirin!No, saying an illness is caused by a deficit of something is not saying that it is caused by the lack of a drug to treat the deficit. If Advate is prescribed to treat Haemophilia, it is not a claim that Haemophilia is caused by a lack of Advate for instance.


Antidepressants are far less effective than people think: in fact, they may not be effective at all. Trials are typically only a month or two long, and I am not aware of any long-term tests of these drugs.Again no. It bends the truth to suggest that is even possible, given the amount of testing it takes before they can even be tested for clinical effectiveness. I suspect the author means that the final phase of trials only lasts a month or two. I do not know if that is true, but certainly the American authorities are known to approve the use of drugs pretty quickly. Again in Britain however that isn't the case and it takes longer (quite a lot longer in some cases). Once a drug becomes available in Britain it will have to have been tested more thoroughly. As for the claim that there are no long-term tests for drugs. That is just making things up. All commonly used drugs are subject to constant testing. Simply prescribing them to patients and monitoring the effects is testing in of itself and medical literature is full of these kind of case studies.

psychiatry continues to be increasingly medicalized,I quoted this bit simply to lead into a larger point. The author seems to be under the impression that psychiatry is not proper "medicine" which is laughable. Moreover describing a move towards drug therapy as a move in that direction is also silly as Cognitive Therapy (what the author calls "talk therapy") is also a form of medicine.

Anyway the wider point I wanted to make is that for all this talk of psychiatrists, most ordinary depression diagnoses are made by General Practitioners and the medicine prescribed by them. Only if that doesn't work and they feel more powerful anti-depressants may be required (the reason fluoxetine is so common is because it is not as strong as others and people are more likely to tolerate it) or if the diagnosis may need to be revised. Moreover, in Britain, all prescriptions made outside of hospitals are actually made through General Practitioners. If you see a psychiatrist they won't prescribe you anything. They will ask your doctor for a prescription.


Perhaps the most disturbing thing in Angells articles is the huge increase in drug therapy for mental disorders in children, who are often treated with drugs not approved by the FDA for their diagnosed disorder. Juvenile bipolar disorder increased 40-fold between 1993 and 2004, and autism more than fivefold. As Angell notes, Ten percent of ten-year-old boys now take daily stimulants for ADHDattention deficit/hyperactivity disorderand 500,000 children take antipsychotic drugs.This is playing to people's great suspicion of Ritalin. I understand why people worry about it, but a lot of what people think is plain wrong. The reason is that people have a belief that it is being simply given out to any misbehaving child to calm them down without addressing cause of behaviour. This would be a terrible thing to do, but the good news is that is isn't possible. The thing is Ritalin is not a "calming" drug. It is a stimulate. One of its main purposes is to treat narcolepsy. The reason it works with ADHD is that it stimulates the parts of the brain that allow for self control. In other words, it isn't calming people down, simply giving them the ability to control themselves. If you try giving it to a child who does not have a problem concentrating and exercising self control, it certainly won't clam them down, it would be more like giving them caffeine. In other words if it is given due to misdiagnosis it will become obvious pretty quickly.

To conclude this article makes some pretty harsh claims about psychiatry, alleging a corrupt relationship with drug companies (and God knows, drug companies are hideously corrupt, hell they can make arms dealers look nice), but the trouble is that it looks at America without making any kind of international comparison. In Britain for instance much of what is alleged clearly does not happen. But British Psychiatry is not much different from American psychiatry.

It should be noted that drugs (of all types) are over subscribed in America compared to Britain, but that is down to the American health care system as a whole, psychiatry doesn't stand out there.

piet11111
23rd July 2011, 14:51
But when one looks at the evidence, there is wide variation in the success of talk therapy. Certain behavioral therapies like helping people overcome irrational phobias have been proven effective, but all in all pharmacology has proven more successful on a regular basis as a generality at helping people treat mental illness.

By that logic we should limit the treatment of broken bones to massive amounts of painkillers as patients no longer report pain the problem must be fixed.

The Underdog
24th July 2011, 00:22
A few years ago, while I was studying furiously for my final A2-level exams, my mother was increasingly concerned with my inability to concentrate. Despite my claims that it was a consequence of the considerable workload of four involved A2 subjects, combined with my part-time job, my mother nevertheless booked an appointment with an educational psychologist, and I took a series of different tests.

Once the results of said tests were in, they indicated that I was teetering on the border of a diagnosis of ADD (that is, Attention Deficit Disorder, without the hyperactivity). As mum obviously wanted me to do well, she pushed for our family GP for a small prescription of Ritalin.

The only difference that I had noticed was that it had triggered relatively intense heart palpitations. I'd wake up after some sleep, and my heart would be going like i'd just run a marathon.

My mother, while well-meaning, was very naive to so readily medicate me without a clue as to what she was doing, especially given that there was never really a big problem in the first place.

Nothing Human Is Alien
24th July 2011, 02:47
Once when applying for financial assistance I was sent to a psychologist and a psychiatrist for evaluation. The psychologist was a wishy-washy liberal and the psychiatrist had a picture of himself and Ronald Reagan on the wall. I'm not sure which was worse.

On the other hand, the psychologist that evaluated me upon my release from prison said I was "obviously OK" after about one minute and we spent the rest of the time talking about Nicaragua, Daniel Ortega, the Sandinistas and the absurdity of psychiatry in the United States (diagnosing "disorders" by a "check off" list of symptoms under which more than 50% of Americans would be considered mentally ill, labeling opposition to oppression and exploitation as "disorders," prescribing drugs even though it's not understood how they work, etc.). He actually asked me to come back sometime and give him some materials on socialism(!).

black magick hustla
24th July 2011, 07:18
i think medication can help but i think a lot of psychic distress is caused by class society and a lot of psychiatrists are full of shit because it seems to me mental disorders a lot of the time are based upon value judgements (i.e. if u cant function as a succesful wage slave u are fucked, see ADD).

regards

- some scientist

The Underdog
24th July 2011, 21:34
i think medication can help but i think a lot of psychic distress is caused by class society and a lot of psychiatrists are full of shit because it seems to me mental disorders a lot of the time are based upon value judgements (i.e. if u cant function as a succesful wage slave u are fucked, see ADD).

regards

- some scientist

Indeed.

The description of the relatively recently conceived 'Oppositional Defiant Disorder' is as follows, according to the DSM; 'an ongoing pattern of disobedient, hostile and defiant behavior toward authority figures'.

In other words, shut up, don't rock the boat, do as you are told, and work diligently for your superiors.