Sky News breaks media silence over Libyan rebels' atrocities against civilians

[The Vegan Marxist]

m-Juh1IGBUc

Other interesting note, while Gaddafi and his supporters help house, clothe, and feed children, the Libyan rebels are instead arming them (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2014236/Libya-Children-young-7-trained-fight-Gaddafi.html), which only tells us they clearly don't have the support amongst the Libyan people, or else they wouldn't be resorting to child soldiers.

[Turinbaar]

http://www.channel4.com/news/child-soldiers-sent-by-gaddafi-to-fight-libyan-rebels


Ninety boys, between the ages of 15 and 19, where called to military barracks in Tripoli "for training" as soon as the 17th February popular uprising began, Murad, and another captive have independently said.

Though they aren't as young looking as the photos of the rebel's child soldiers, its important to note this is not an exclusively rebel tactic, and the employment of child soldiers does not necessarily mean lack of support, (otherwise that would mean the libyan people support neither Gaddafi or the rebels). BTW before anyone says "bourgeoise propaganda," the OP references Sky News and Daily Mail.

[The Vegan Marxist]

http://www.channel4.com/news/child-soldiers-sent-by-gaddafi-to-fight-libyan-rebels

Though they aren't as young looking as the photos of the rebel's child soldiers, its important to note this is not an exclusively rebel tactic, and the employment of child soldiers does not necessarily mean lack of support, (otherwise that would mean the libyan people support neither Gaddafi or the rebels). BTW before anyone says "bourgeoise propaganda," the OP references Sky News and Daily Mail.

Yeah, I understand where you're getting at, but 15-19 isn't exactly a young age to join the military, per se. 15 is only two years younger than the youngest age one can be to join the U.S. military (granted, every 17 year old has to first acquire parental permission before joining), you get the picture though.

Where, on the other hand, the rebels are resorting to 7-10 year olds, which, IMO, does appear to allow us to assume they're lacking in numbers, thus their (desperate?) willingness to arm a 7 year old child.

They are, of course, nothing more than mere assumptions, but I hope you understand where I'm getting at, and not just trying to throw around baseless arguments that hold no merit to reality.

[Turinbaar]

Yeah, I understand where you're getting at, but 15-19 isn't exactly a young age to join the military, per se. 15 is only two years younger than the youngest age one can be to join the U.S. military (granted, every 17 year old has to first acquire parental permission before joining), you get the picture though.

Where, on the other hand, the rebels are resorting to 7-10 year olds, which, IMO, does appear to allow us to assume they're lacking in numbers, thus their (desperate?) willingness to arm a 7 year old child.

They are, of course, nothing more than mere assumptions, but I hope you understand where I'm getting at, and not just trying to throw around baseless arguments that hold no merit to reality.

I understand what you are saying. Child soldiers always suggest desperation, and the age difference is clear, but so is the desperation of a regime that uses the schools as networks for forced conscription. None of the ninety schoolboys described in the article I referenced had joined of their own free will.

This item from the Mail was also important


Although they do not appear to have been involved on the front line, the boys are clearly being trained to operate the weapons.

This is opposed to the schoolboys being forced into Gaddafi's army, who were almost immediately shoved into the fray. Its an even more disgusting and pointless tactic than the Ayatollah's shoving Irannian children onto the Iraqi minefields, because NATO will simply keep bombing as long as Gaddaffi sends more unwilling kids into the fight.

Furthermore, the boys forced into fighting for Gaddafi (those who had survived) were taken in to hospital by the rebels. Do you think this would have happened the other way around?

[The Vegan Marxist]

Furthermore, the boys forced into fighting for Gaddafi (those who had survived) were taken in to hospital by the rebels. Do you think this would have happened the other way around?

Yes, because we have several differing accounts of people fleeing areas like Benghazi and Misrata, whether they be civilians, or armed combatants, who received medical treatment in areas like Tripoli.

It's pretty clear through Sky News' report, and subsequently their talk with that of the doctor who fled to Tripoli, that the rebels were not so nice to those coming in that were deemed as their enemies. The doctor was threatened and warned not to help those of their enemy - those deemed as "pro-Gaddafi". So whatever point you were trying to make, it's clearly misleading.

[danyboy27]

I dont understand, the taleban routinely use child to set up trap and embush NATO, it totally goes unoticed here, but all the sudden, the rebels are using child for their war effort and its an outrage, its horrible.

i think Using child in time of war is fucking disgusting, no matter who does it, the op on the other hand seem to be selective in its disgust for the use of child soldier.

[black magick hustla]

15 yos in many cultures are already adult. republican militias in the spanish civil war had 16 yos. i think this whole conflict is an ethnic civil war and there is nothing to be gained out of it, but i always thought the whole dumb differential between 18 yos and 16 yos was meaningless, the western bosses think they are above those dumb third world militias because they have some arbitrary 18 yo lower age. when i was 18 yo i was jerking off and trying to get laid and living in my parents house i don't think i was mature enough to be able to deal with issues of who deserves to have a bullet in the head or not

[bailey_187]

The article says the youngens are being taught to clean, handle weapons and are being used to carry them, but explicitly says they arent fighting. just saying.

[bailey_187]

should also be noted that this is in the city of Misrata that is under seige, so obviously there are going to be shortages of people as people flee the violence, and no one else can get in. i dont think this indicates in anyway the support fo the rebels.

i dont "support" the rebels, just not going to let OP have some cheap propaganda victory

[WeAreReborn]

The article says the youngens are being taught to clean, handle weapons and are being used to carry them, but explicitly says they arent fighting. just saying.
So they know how to use and clean guns for what reason? They wouldn't waste their time and resources teaching children how to fight if they didn't want to deploy them.

[bailey_187]

So they know how to use and clean guns for what reason? They wouldn't waste their time and resources teaching children how to fight if they didn't want to deploy them.

maybe they will be deployed, maybe they wont. i doubt the rebels will give gaddafi such a great propaganda victory that easily though. im guessing theyare being trained though as a last resort defence of city if it falls to the government.

all we can see though is pictures of kids transporting rifles and cleaning them though

[Steve_j]

I dont understand the point of these threads. Much of the same evidence and arguments presented and much worse could quite legitimately be leveled against various communist or anarchist groups through out history, this does not legitamise the position of their opponents.

By all means criticisms are welcome but to angle them with statements like
while Gaddafi and his supporters help house, clothe, and feed children are empty. All of the most horrific politicians in the history of human kind could claim this, so what your point?

Edit



The doctor was threatened and warned not to help those of their enemy - those deemed as "pro-Gaddafi"
Um......... its a fucking war!
How the fuck would you react to supporters of an authoritarian organisation who have killed your love ones. Of all the people on this thread i never picked you to be a liberal :P

[The Vegan Marxist]

Um......... its a fucking war!
How the fuck would you react to supporters of an authoritarian organisation who have killed your love ones. Of all the people on this thread i never picked you to be a liberal :P

You're clearly being selective in what is being said. My response was to Turinbaar, who claimed that the rebels were helping give their enemies medical attention. In which my response was what you quoted, showing how it's quite the opposite.

And yes, you're right, and I don't expect any side to help give medical aid to their enemy during a time of war. If one does, I'd be very surprised, but that's irrelevant, since my response wasn't addressing that. So next time you attack me, be sure you know what exactly you're attacking.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

The Vegan Marxist, how many "communist" groups have you supported that have killed civilians and whom have armed children? Are we going to act surprised when Ghaddaffi supporters are gunned down and executed? I mean really, you surprised? Since when did civil wars look nice, and if you're going to be walking around with a tattoo with Ghaddaffi on it in an rebel stronghold do you think they're going to treat you good? No of course not.

It seems like the last people you'd expect to care about morality in war are the first ones to come to Libya's "anti-imp" regimes considering most support those like the Naxalites who have beheaded people and admitted that they have armed people that were 16 years old. Must not have much support I guess. It's just hard to accept your argument when you create a double standard for other rebel groups IMO. Like next thing we know Spartacus will come in here and talk about how bad the rebels are because they executed a civilian.

[Geiseric]

Isn't training younger children how to use firearms a common sight in middle eastern, and north african countries? I know that it's not uncommon even in the U.S. among petit bourgeois people who enjoy "hunting" but I would want my dad to show me how to shoot a gun if we were being invaded. I would want to know as well if we lived in a dangerous area, so much can go wrong. Child soldiers is always bad though, have them doing logistics or stuff in the backround if you must but if you're depending on child soldiers these days to do front line fighting, it's fair to say that you lost. That's the kind of shit Hitler did to fight off the red army when they were rolling into berlin.

[agnixie]

Other interesting note, while Gaddafi and his supporters help house, clothe, and feed children

By interesting I think you mean irrelevant. Fascist organizations do a lot of charity work to gain populist support. Capitalists do a lot of it. Hell, imperialists do a lot of it. But hey, long live the King of Africa.

[RadioRaheem84]

By interesting I think you mean irrelevant. Fascist organizations do a lot of charity work to gain populist support. Capitalists do a lot of it. Hell, imperialists do a lot of it. But hey, long live the King of Africa.

It's part of cultural hegemony and many people in high power use it to curb their influence with the populace.

Hamas does it too. But at the same time, instead of paiting them all with the broad brush, agnixie, you could understand the differing conditions each group faces.

Is it just punk rock to be so damn anti-Gaddafi like that? I understand being an oppositionist againt his regime, but you make it seem like you are literally a trade unionist fighting Hitler or Mussolini. Sorry to burst your bubble but it's not like that.

[agnixie]

Is it just punk rock to be so damn anti-Gaddafi like that?
¿Que? You sound fantastically old just now.



I understand being an oppositionist againt his regime, but you make it seem like you are literally a trade unionist fighting Hitler or Mussolini. Sorry to burst your bubble but it's not like that.

No, I'm not feeling like such, in fact it should be obvious by the way I go about it that I consider it irrelevant, which I've probably written in three or four threads already. I know some of you seem to think this shit on revleft is somehow important, especially given how pompous and press-releasy certain people are, but sorry to break it to you, we're fucking irrelevant and these debates about Gaddafi are just an example of why. If there's a bubble to burst here it's the idea that these bullshit threads do fuck all. They do even less than liberal million strong marches in major cities of the world against war. They're a fucking joke, and I admit that the only reason I still get involved in Libya threads is that people like threetune and tvm, no matter how frustrating they get when approached seriously, provide a lot of mirth.

[Steve_j]

You're clearly being selective in what is being said. My response was to Turinbaar, who claimed that the rebels were helping give their enemies medical attention. In which my response was what you quoted, showing how it's quite the opposite.

I stand corrected, that will teach me to skim read whilst drinking.

Liberal slur retracted!;), but the original part of my post remains.