Was Mikhail Gorbachev a true Communist?

[Revolutionary_Marxist]

Out of curiosity, was Gorbachev a real communist? From my experiences so far on RevLeft people tend to have a some-what negative opinion of Gorbachev. Is it because of the fall of the USSR, or is there something else? Thanks...

[Rjevan]

No, he wasn't. Self-admitted anti-communist, as the link in Ismail's signature shows: http://www.revolutionarydemocracy.org/rdv6n1/gorbach.htm

[thesadmafioso]

Not at all, to quote Gorbachev from the first line of the aforementioned article "My ambition was to liquidate communism". When you look at that in the context of his disastrous policy decisions, it is a forgone conclusion that he was certainly not a communist.

Amusingly enough, I was actually about to go find a post made by Ismail to find that exact link when I first read the title of this topic. It would appear I was beat to the task though.

[Ismail]

Gorbachev today is an avowed social-democrat. The July 1990 program statement of the CPSU shows just how watered-down it became under his leadership: http://www.revleft.com/vb/cpsu-programme-statement-t142763/index.html?t=142763

[Arlekino]

Oh yes thanks for Gorbochov closing down factories, free market. Well is no point to cry now is past is already destroyed. I wish comeback some good leadership in future and maybe will change in better.

[Black Sheep]

It's because of the fall of USSR, which turned it from a deformed,mutated bureaucratic authoritarian welfare state, to a capitalist hellhole.
Not a good transition, standard-of-living-of-the-people wise.

Fuck that clown.


I wish comeback some good leadership in future and maybe will change in better.
Leadership in what? I hope you mean the russian communist party, and not the Russian Federeation...

[Arlekino]

It's because of the fall of USSR, which turned it from a deformed,mutated bureaucratic authoritarian welfare state, to a capitalist hellhole.
Not a good transition, standard-of-living-of-the-people wise.

Fuck that clown.


Leadership in what? I hope you mean the russian communist party, and not the Russian Federeation...

Yes good leadership in Russian communist party or even in any country.

[Weezer]

Gorbachev claims to be a social democrat, so no.

[Black Sheep]

Yes good leadership in Russian communist party or even in any country.
But in both cases,it's the work from below that yields results.
A "good leadership" in a capitalist country means nothing : the economy and policies of it are restricted to a capitalist framework, no substantial good for the working people can come out of reforms, because capitalism pressuposes and is based on exploitation of labor.
That's the difference between social democracy and socialism , revolutionary left and reformist left.The 1st believe in destruction of the exploitation system and the construction of a classless one, the 2nd promotes tweaking the (inherently unjust) system into one more favorable to the workers.
A few more breadcrumbs isn't what we need comrade.We deserve the full loaf, we make it ourselves dammit!

New leadership,again,can't change a communist party if it truly operates democratically, as a leader is simply a tool of the collective decision making.A shortcut.

[Ilyich]

No, he wasn't. Self-admitted anti-communist, as the link in Ismail's signature shows: http://www.revolutionarydemocracy.org/rdv6n1/gorbach.htm

I agree that Gorbachev is not a communist, he is a social democratic capitalist. Gorbachev was, however, a Leninist before the 1990's. In his 1987 book Perestroika, Gorbachev cites Lenin's NEP as the inspiration for his own economic policy. Also, Gorbachev once said,


"As a young man, I really took to heart the Communist ideals. A young soul certainly cannot reject things like justice and equality. These were the goals proclaimed by the Communists. But in reality that terrible Communist experiment brought about repression of human dignity. Violence was used in order to impose that model on society."

I think Gorbachev became a social democrat during the 1990's and the link provided by Rjevan is Gorbachev lying.

Edit: Ismaik and DarkPast, your replies make sense. I would like to point out that I do not at all support Gorbachev or his legacy. I was only pointing out that what he wrote in 1987 contradicts Rjevan's assertion that he was a "self-admitted anti-communist."

[Ismail]

In his 1987 book Perestroika, Gorbachev cites Lenin's NEP as the inspiration for his own economic policy.So what? Chinese economists in the 1980's cited Lenin's NEP as well. It's called "raising the red flag to oppose the red flag." Dengist arguments that China needed to swerve onto the market in the 1980's are lame and anti-Marxist; the claim that the Soviet Union needed to do so is even more absurd.


I think Gorbachev became a social democrat during the 1990's and the link provided by Rjevan is Gorbachev lying.Well keep in mind that up until 1989 pretty much every single Soviet politician praised Lenin as the glorious founder of the mighty Soviet state and that the country was valiantly leading the globe towards communism and the advancement of mankind, and that they themselves were studious disciples of the great Lenin, scientifically analyzing the problems at hand and so on and so forth. It isn't much different from CCP officials today. Obviously they aren't going to say "my inspiration for the economic policies I put forth can be traced back to such great thinkers as Milton Friedman" or something.

[DarkPast]

Questionable whether he ever was a Leninist. I have trouble believing he suddenly had a change of heart in the 1990's since his reforms were a definite move towards capitalism and western-style democracy. The quote above is actually dismissive of communism; basically he's saying it's utopian and unachievable. And he wasn't exactly a "young man" anymore when he came to power.

It shows how rotten the whole system had become by then, since the part leadership didn't believe in the ideas they were supposed to represent.

[Os Cangaceiros]

There was nothing particularly unique about Gorbachev...the USSR and surrounding bloc nations (and former Yugoslavia) spawned innumerable apparatchiks just like him. People who had minimal or no interest in socialism/Marxism and were primarily concerned with the great Stalinist legacy of "orderly careerism". He just happened to be the one who put the final nail in the coffin of the USSR.

[RedMarxist]

It shows how rotten the whole system had become by then, since the part leadership didn't believe in the ideas they were supposed to represent."


Just Like China. the Party claims to be communist, yet it is none of what it claims to be. What it represents is a thing of the past, a past it has completely abandoned.

In my opinion China becoming capitalist would be like if America became Communist-it would go against[and im not trying to sound reactionary] what our founding fathers stood for. In China's case restoring capitalism goes against what Mao stood for. Sick.

[Tommy4ever]

Just Like China. the Party claims to be communist, yet it is none of what it claims to be. What it represents is a thing of the past, a past it has completely abandoned.

In my opinion China becoming capitalist would be like if America became Communist-it would go against[and im not trying to sound reactionary] what our founding fathers stood for. In China's case restoring capitalism goes against what Mao stood for. Sick.

Didn't Abraham Lincoln go against what the American founding fathers stood for when he abolished slavery?

:cool: Yeah I said it!

[Ismail]

Didn't Abraham Lincoln go against what the American founding fathers stood for when he abolished slavery?Washington, Franklin, Paine and Jefferson among others favored the gradual abolition of slavery, so no.

[Comrade Crow]

Out of curiosity, was Gorbachev a real communist? From my experiences so far on RevLeft people tend to have a some-what negative opinion of Gorbachev. Is it because of the fall of the USSR, or is there something else? Thanks...

Gorbachev was only like the single greatest Communist, even more so than Marx, what're you talking about?

[DarkPast]

Gorbachev was only like the single greatest Communist, even more so than Marx, what're you talking about about?

Sarcasm, right?

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

The 1990 CPSU party program that Ismail links to above is one of the best documents you can read if you want to see where reformism and careerist non-communist 'communists' got the USSR in its final years.