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Catma
12th July 2011, 23:11
The situation with the kulaks sabotaging farmland had dire consequences in the Soviet Union. This was a case of bourgeois and petit bourgeois about to be dispossessed of their property and class privilege.

Sabotage is something any revolution must be prepared to deal with. Since I'm in America I wonder how this would play out in a revolution here. I don't think there are so many bourgeois in direct control of operations, in MOST industries, that their direct action would cause tremendous problems. On the other hand, what we do have plenty of is ideological fanatics and desperate people who will act as tools for the capitalists.

What could a fairly large pool of committed counterrevolutionaries accomplish in modern America during a revolution? Unfortunately I think the answer is a massively disproportionate amount of damage. Lots of the infrastructure that Americans consider essential is extremely vulnerable. Take for example the northeast blackout of 2003. I don't know what it takes exactly to cause a cascading failure in the aging power grid, but it can probably be accomplished by several hundred armed and coordinated goons. Combine that with persistent attacks on repair workers, and the heat of high summer, and you have a disaster of magnitude rarely seen in the US or anywhere. The economic damage would be catastrophic. There would be deaths among the weak and elderly. Fresh food, and in some cases, water, would become increasingly hard to come by.

And this is but one scenario. It is not hard to picture prolonged chaos and terrorism plaguing a revolution in the US (or any other modern state, really.)

What say you, comrades? Maybe at the point of revolution there would be so much popular support that the capitalists couldn't carry out such an operation? Could workers' militias be trained and organized enough to fight off this kind of tactic? I think there would be persistent resistance to any successful revolution today, especially in the US. This thought is especially bleak and has really ruined my day. Please tell me why I'm wrong!

Black Sheep
13th July 2011, 10:33
Well it's a practical problem, isn't it?


What say you, comrades? Maybe at the point of revolution there would be so much popular support that the capitalists couldn't carry out such an operation?

That seems highly unlikely,and i reckon there are plenty of mercenaries to hire, even if noone feels like acting to overthrow the new socialist regime.The cappies will try everything to undermine a revolution and destruction of stuff that better the peoples' well-being seems to be a historical favorite.


Could workers' militias be trained and organized enough to fight off this kind of tactic? I think there would be persistent resistance to any successful revolution today, especially in the US. This thought is especially bleak and has really ruined my day. As i said the problem is a practical one - if there's enough support for the revolution, then lots of people will volunteer to defend it, and defence of infastructure from sabotage is a subset of that.

A better thing to worry about is how the hell to defend against stealth bombers or unmanned probes , or emps with noone taking responsibility for the action or something.

I'd imagine stuffing the railroad lines with TNT is a bit outdated...

Os Cangaceiros
13th July 2011, 10:37
Hopefully you don't buy into the whole "kulak saboteur" myth of why the ineptly planned collective farming agenda failed in the fUSSR...

tracher999
13th July 2011, 11:14
secure your stuff and your home against sabotage thats the only thing you can do
in the DIY forum is er a topic about securing your home

greetz:)

Catma
13th July 2011, 12:24
Hopefully you don't buy into the whole "kulak saboteur" myth of why the ineptly planned collective farming agenda failed in the fUSSR...

Only partially. I'm underinformed about the whole thing. Can you point me at some good resources about it?

Black Sheep
13th July 2011, 21:29
Only partially. I'm underinformed about the whole thing. Can you point me at some good resources about it?
Another view of Stalin , for the stalinist view.
A revolution betrayed,for the trot / anti-stalinist view.

RemoveYourChains
14th July 2011, 15:56
What say you, comrades? Maybe at the point of revolution there would be so much popular support that the capitalists couldn't carry out such an operation?

Aside from the need for revolution to be sufficiently popular amongst the masses (and keeping them from feeling alienated from the workings of the new regime), the other half the answer is the ruthless suppression of counter-revolution.

Put another way - make the punitive consequences of sabotage highly unattractive to anyone contemplating such. And have ALL of this take place in the full light of day, so there is no doubt that such measures are being taken not for the satisfaction of any private ends, but in defense of the "territory" won by the people.