Rise of neo-nazism in Eastern Europe

[Dogs On Acid]

What's causing it?

[jake williams]

The shortest and simplest answer is the failure of the social democrats.

Edit: I didn't exactly see the "eastern" part. If you're talking about the former socialist countries, the simplest answer there is that NATO/EU have supported nationalist and neo-nazi governments since at least the second world war. It doesn't help that many of those socialist governments had right wing elements (nationalist, anti-democratic) which were easily revived in the post-socialist era.

[Stalin Ate My Homework]

'Fascism is Capitalism in decay'- Lenin

[Rss]

The shortest and simplest answer is the failure of the social democrats.

I was pretty dumbstruck by this first, but then I remembered that finnish social democrats have always been more right-wing than rest of them in Europe. Väinö Tanner was corporatist, stubbornly anti-communist and good friend of Nazi-Germany.

I think that roots of rising fascism in Eastern Europe are in failings of political upbringing in those countries during their slow decay into full-blown capitalism since fifties.

[Leonid Brozhnev]

Nationalist fervour brought on by the collpase of the SU coupled with the rising inequalities of the capitalist system and government/ local authority corruption out of control. In some ways the full-blow capitalism in the East is much worse than in the West, it's a rawer kind of capitalism where everybody is out to make as much money as possible, every inch of space is used to advertise products and minorities are seen as criminals. It breeds the anger, ignorance and inequality fascism needs.

[W1N5T0N]

Lukashenko is a fascist, no?

[agnixie]

Lukashenko is a fascist, no?

Ex-communist, he's a lot like the national bolsheviks - lionizes Stalin, reactionary politics, a lot of cronyism, a lot more nationalism.

[RadioRaheem84]

Just what makes right wing reactionary politics so darn attractive to people in messed up nations? Even if left wing elements are suppressed, woudn't people still collectivize in more left wing manner? Why does right wing nationalism, religious zealousy, or neo-Nazism always come into the fray? Do nations just leave these elements to fester in the slums?

[jake williams]

I was pretty dumbstruck by this first, but then I remembered that finnish social democrats have always been more right-wing than rest of them in Europe. Väinö Tanner was corporatist, stubbornly anti-communist and good friend of Nazi-Germany.
There's that, but it's only one of several examples. There are several polls suggesting that a huge chunk of that pink-jackbooted little brat Le Pen's support is coming from disaffected PS voters - ex-social democrats. We should hope that in Spain, Portugual, and Greece - all with "social democratic" governments, and all with unusually sharp economic crises - workers turn to the left, and organize to the left, but it's not guaranteed.

[Dogs On Acid]

There's that, but it's only one of several examples. There are several polls suggesting that a huge chunk of that pink-jackbooted little brat Le Pen's support is coming from disaffected PS voters - ex-social democrats. We should hope that in Spain, Portugual, and Greece - all with "social democratic" governments, and all with unusually sharp economic crises - workers turn to the left, and organize to the left, but it's not guaranteed.

We had elections not so long ago, the right-wing crushed the left completely. The Portuguese Communist Party amazingly held it's votes at around 7%, but the left-wing coalition (Left Bloc), and the social-democratic Socialist Party lost more than half of the votes compared to last elections.

I honestly don't understand why the fuck people turn to the right when Capitalism fails. Is it misinformation? Ignorance??

[RadioRaheem84]

I would like an answer to that too? How strange is it to ask for more capitalism when capitalism fails?

[bailey_187]

Its able to use accepted ideology (e.g. nationalism) to challenge (in rhetoric) the current state of affairs maybe? i dno

[Os Cangaceiros]

'Fascism is Capitalism in decay'- Lenin

I thought that was a Trotsky quote.

[A Marxist Historian]

We had elections not so long ago, the right-wing crushed the left completely. The Portuguese Communist Party amazingly held it's votes at around 7%, but the left-wing coalition (Left Bloc), and the social-democratic Socialist Party lost more than half of the votes compared to last elections.

I honestly don't understand why the fuck people turn to the right when Capitalism fails. Is it misinformation? Ignorance??

It's because of the extreme failures of the Left. What left wing parties these days talk about socialism as the answer *right now*? No, they just are trying to get some left wing voices at the table, tax the rich a little more, cut back on social welfare measures a little less.

Nobody believes that is workable any more with the entire economy in crisis. And when the socialist or even communist parties are elected to office, they govern in exactly the same way as the right.

The fascists call for revolution and overthrow of the whole system and replacing it with another one. So people start to listen to them.

Since the left wing parties don't call for anything like that any more, and since you have a philosophy ever since the collapse of the Soviet Union that "communism is dead," shared pretty much just as much by the communists and socialists as everybody else, as people get desperate they go right instead of left.

Getting back to the original thread question, this is particularly true in Eastern Europe.

Because in the '90s, people in Eastern Europe were so disgusted by the results of restoring capitalism that in most Eastern European countries they voted the old, usually renamed, Communist Parties that had run things before the Berlin Wall went down back into power. Even in Poland!

People expected that what by then they saw as the good old days of Communist Eastern Europe would come back. But nothing like that happened, it made no difference at all.

When Jaruzelski, the dictator Solidarity revolted against back in the '80s, was elected president again, and the ex-Polish Communist Party ruled Poland for a decade, what did they do? Well, they joined NATO and sent Polish troops to Iraq. And that's about it.

Is it any wonder the fascists are rising in Eastern Europe?

-M.H.-

[RadioRaheem84]

But how is it that people first turn to the right wing as a reaction to the failures of capitalism?

How does collective and social solidarity against a system that is fucking them over turn right wing?

[freya4]

Most of these far-right and ultra-nationalist feelings come from disgruntled youth who are dissatisfied with their own lives and lack of success. A lot of them are unemployed and have not been able to achieve economic prosperity, so they look for the easiest scapegoat, usually immigrants and ethnic minorities. This is the case not only in Eastern Europe, but really everywhere. Hitler, after all, only came to power because of the circumstances in Germany at the time. People were more willing to take the easy way out and blame the Jews and other unpopular groups for economic and social problems, rather than actually analyze the situation and realize these problems were inherit in capitalism itself. I do, however, find it very strange that an ideology such as Nazism would be so widespread in Eastern Europe, when Hitler and the Nazis held the Slavs as an inferior race that ought to be exterminated alongside the Jews and gypsies. It's very ironic and at the same time very sad. I can't imagine what their grandparents, many of whom gave up their lives in the extremely bloody struggle against the Nazis, would have thought of them.

[Leonid Brozhnev]

A snippet from Ross Kemp On Gangs...

eAQyf5TTLbM

Essentially, they dislike 'communism' and most likely blame the current economic failings on it's legacy. Like most right wingers they have a lobotomised view of how to tackle societies problems, that is, minorities are predisposed to be nothing but benefit leechers, prostitutes and criminals so they need to be imprisoned or removed some other way.

[jake williams]

But how is it that people first turn to the right wing as a reaction to the failures of capitalism?

How does collective and social solidarity against a system that is fucking them over turn right wing?
We should look at what is going on concretely. There is a general theme that the left is failing to offer alternatives, organizational and politically, but this is very general. It's very important to distinguish the social democrats - the traitors of the labour movement, the bourgeois politicians making false appeals to workers, those who actually believe that capitalism can be fair and democratic even while they prove otherwise during crises - and the revolutionary left forces, whose failures are of a different sort.

In France the fascists criticize a "left" political elite which really is characterized by vulgar excesses at the expense of workers. This "left" political elite in the socialist party offer workers basically nothing. The French fascists are not criticizing the PCF, which has quite different problems, both political and organizational. They're criticizing attacks on French culture and immigration, which mainly is a false problem that Sarkozy and the French bourgeoisie in general have been promoting for some time, but they're also appealing to legitimate grievances about the lack of national sovereignty that the European process entails and the lack of popular sovereignty that capitalism itself entails.

Thus they are making appeals to real grievances, grievances to which no other similarly organized and powerful force is appealing. This is a general theme.

In Spain, the recent victories by the Francoist right represent to a lesser extent major organizational or ideological successes by the right, but instead the failure of the revolutionary forces to win over workers sold out by the social democrats, leading to a general sense of defeatism (and anti-politics and anti-democracy on the part of the youth movement in the streets).

The cases of Greece and Portugual, where the respective communist parties and mass movements are stronger, are different, and more hopeful, but they face similar dangers.

In Canada, the United States and Britain the political cultures are different, but similar problems exist.

In Britain, while the BNP and similar groups represent an important threat along the lines of that displayed by other fascist groups in Europe, things have been relatively tame. In Canada the ultra right is a beneficiary of several factors. The relatively less violent state of economic crisis has been helpful. Also, here the ultra right represents a relatively broad alliance of the big bourgeoisie, including importantly finance (to an extent, although I've had a couple interesting debates with friends lately on that topic). Social democracy having been historically weak has also, somewhat paradoxically, had a mediating effect: the NDP has less of a demonstrated record of betraying workers, which has led to their receiving some support, though its class basis is debatable. But in times of uncertainty, "sound fiscal management" (ie. the protective dictatorship of capital) is appealing, as is talk about "law and order", as are, on the part of populists, attacks on a perceived or actual liberal elite. In Quebec, historically stronger social democrats have a historically more extensive record of selling out workers, and are less popular with workers in their organizational forms.

In the United States, there really are no social democrats nor social democratic mass movements, except maybe in Wisconsin. There isn't really a labour movement and the Democrats are the closest thing there is to a social democratic labour party. Thus basically the only major group (and one with a whole lot of funding) which has presented itself as a channel for popular rage against the crisis and its bourgeois reponse has been the Tea Party (and the fascist and white supremacist groups around it, the militias, the conspiracy theorists, and so on).

The US right has carried out a common trope on the part of fascists - portray the crisis of capitalism as one of parasitic finance capitalism (ie. the Jews, if you're listening for it), not of "good" capitalism, Wall Street and not Main Street, big business and not small business. This appeals both to workers who are unusually indoctrinated into capitalist mythology, and to the petty bourgeoisie itself. But it does run afoul of the banks (and for that matter, the Jews), which both in the US and Britain are an unusually important part of the economy (ie. finance is a disproportionate part of the US and British economies relative to those in Europe), and the bourgeoisie as a whole probably will continue to support the Democrats at least through 2012, at least unless the Republican leadership can find a way to make the Tea Party a bit safer.


So the situations in respective countries are complex (and again, we're not talking about Eastern Europe), but there are some common themes.

[manic expression]

What's causing it? The fall of socialism caused it. With the reestablishment of capitalism throughout the region, right-wing nationalism became the order of the day. Frustration with the virtual collapse of life as everyone knew it was vented not against the victorious capitalist class but against whomever happened to live next door. The competitive logic of the capitalist system was applied with vigor between the nations. Ethnic cleansing and other chauvinistic policies were congratulated and hailed as heroic. Every two-bit racist saw it as an opportunity to settle old scores from the 19th Century. This hatred made for a horrifying combination with the abject desperation and bitterness following the fall of European socialism. IMO, it hasn't fundamentally changed since then.


Ex-communist, he's a lot like the national bolsheviks - lionizes Stalin, reactionary politics, a lot of cronyism, a lot more nationalism.
International students from around the world walk the streets of Minsk without fear of being attacked and seriously injured by fascist thugs...something you can't say for Moscow...and so you say Lukashenko's the "national bolshevik"?

[DarkPast]

Most of these far-right and ultra-nationalist feelings come from disgruntled youth who are dissatisfied with their own lives and lack of success. A lot of them are unemployed and have not been able to achieve economic prosperity, so they look for the easiest scapegoat, usually immigrants and ethnic minorities. This is the case not only in Eastern Europe, but really everywhere. Hitler, after all, only came to power because of the circumstances in Germany at the time. People were more willing to take the easy way out and blame the Jews and other unpopular groups for economic and social problems, rather than actually analyze the situation and realize these problems were inherit in capitalism itself.

This. I'm so sick of people here in Croatia blaming the situation on "Yugo-Serb communists".
I could never understand why people don't get that it isn't another nation that's responsible for their problems, but another class. What do I have in common with the ministers, the bankers and the moguls of my country, looking down upon us from their ivory towers (if they look at us at all)?

I think I should also mention religion here. Many people are religious here, and most consider atheism to be synonymous with communism. Furthermore, our eastern neighbours are of different religion. So people tend to see it like this:
We (Croats) = Catholics
are threatened by
Communists or "Yugoslavs" = Atheists
Bosnians = Muslims
Serbs = Orthodox


I do, however, find it very strange that an ideology such as Nazism would be so widespread in Eastern Europe, when Hitler and the Nazis held the Slavs as an inferior race that ought to be exterminated alongside the Jews and gypsies. It's very ironic and at the same time very sad. I can't imagine what their grandparents, many of whom gave up their lives in the extremely bloody struggle against the Nazis, would have thought of them.

Well I can answer for my country. During World War 2, the local Nazi (ustaše) ideologues took on the (totally bogus) idea that Croats stemmed from Goths or Persians rather than Slavs. Instead, the Serbs were labelled as the inferior, Slavic race.

Most people still view Jews as the stereotypical money-grubbers. Though it doesn't really matter much because there are only several thousand Jews in the entire country. Also, I'd say this prejudice has its roots in the historic, religious prejudice against them rather than Nazi racial theory.

The gypsies are hated by most people because they are seen as lazy, crooked, dirty and poor. Their poverty is very much the result of the prejudice most people have towards them, as well as sheer ignorance - few people know they suffered at the hands of the Nazis just as much as the Jews, for example.

As you can see, there's a large pool of "enemies" to choose from and place the blame on before looking for the *real* causes of the problems.

When told about the Nazi atrocities, most people brush it off as "they had it coming" (they=Serbs, Jews etc.) or "the commies were worse" or "yeah, well the Nazis had the right idea but went too far."

[Arlekino]

the media playing in Baltic states big role how communist done damage, genocide against nationality of Lithuanians or Latvians that why most of radicalising ideas are arising. Even Lithuanian forum is calling "Komunizmas Lietuvoje" is comments from left wingers are radical racist comments. I posted on Chit Chat sections. Which you can read those comments.

[bietan jarrai]

What left wing parties these days talk about socialism as the answer *right now*?

None obviously, as attempting a socialist revolution right now would end in complete failure.

[bietan jarrai]

Is it misinformation? Ignorance??

Obviously alienation has led to this, especially among the students and youths. People would rather not do anything and have their rights taken away then do a lot to keep and earn their rights. Most young people have no idea, plus you know what is teached at school. Communism is bad blah blah blah capitalist crap. They go to the kind of protests like the Geração à Rasca cause it's cool, and everybody's doing it. They know no alternative.
I remember when the government fell, the next day was Student Day, and there was a protest planned, but most of the people decided they would do nothing because the government fell. A few people even told me the Left Bloc (:laugh:) would take care of things from now on.
What's important right now is not to start a revolution, but to wake people up. We need revolutionaries to make a revolution possible.

[Dogs On Acid]

Obviously alienation has led to this, especially among the students and youths. People would rather not do anything and have their rights taken away then do a lot to keep and earn their rights. Most young people have no idea, plus you know what is teached at school. Communism is bad blah blah blah capitalist crap. They go to the kind of protests like the Geração à Rasca cause it's cool, and everybody's doing it. They know no alternative.
I remember when the government fell, the next day was Student Day, and there was a protest planned, but most of the people decided they would do nothing because the government fell. A few people even told me the Left Bloc (:laugh:) would take care of things from now on.
What's important right now is not to start a revolution, but to wake people up. We need revolutionaries to make a revolution possible.

Geração a Rasca was ridiculous. Like you said, most youth participated because is was just cool, they had know idea what they were doing.

Even rich kids were there :lol:

The Left Bloc should get off their arse and take action. They have become reformists and are honestly just trying to conquer dissapointed social-democrats from the Socialist Party.

Also Portugal has a very old population, many of them have lived through the Revolution but are also very misinformed. I mean, my "grandfather" took his daughter out of church because they kept telling the kids Communists ate babies (Os Comunistas comem crianças).

[bietan jarrai]

(eu nem me preocupei em ir, na verdade no dia até tive um comício, mas soube que realmente gente que conhecia e que é bem abastada esteve lá. Acho que aquilo foi mais um desfile dos ganzados :laugh:)
My family isn't properly communist or leftist; my mother's side is absolutely reactionary, on my father's side I have an anarchist uncle, two uncles who were part of OCMLP/FEC-ml which were maoist organizations that were mainly active in Porto, before the revolution. One of them is still a leftist. My parents are pretty leftist though, at least labourists or social-democrats (neither PS or BE), more like center-left.

They did everything they could to stop us and they did on the 25th of November. We were probably the country that was closest (perhaps ever been) to the revolution in West Europe... Wish it was still that way. Well, we are struggling for it to be :)

[Dogs On Acid]

(eu nem me preocupei em ir, na verdade no dia até tive um comício, mas soube que realmente gente que conhecia e que é bem abastada esteve lá. Acho que aquilo foi mais um desfile dos ganzados :laugh:)
My family isn't properly communist or leftist; my mother's side is absolutely reactionary, on my father's side I have an anarchist uncle, two uncles who were part of OCMLP/FEC-ml which were maoist organizations that were mainly active in Porto, before the revolution. One of them is still a leftist. My parents are pretty leftist though, at least labourists or social-democrats (neither PS or BE), more like center-left.

They did everything they could to stop us and they did on the 25th of November. We were probably the country that was closest (perhaps ever been) to the revolution in West Europe... Wish it was still that way. Well, we are struggling for it to be :)

Anarchist uncle? That's awesome camarada :blushing:

[A Marxist Historian]

But how is it that people first turn to the right wing as a reaction to the failures of capitalism?

How does collective and social solidarity against a system that is fucking them over turn right wing?

They don't turn to the right first. Problem is there really isn't much of a left to turn to.

The left these days doesn't want to get rid of capitalism, it wants to clean it up and bring back the good old days when you had social services and wages weren't dropping like a rock.

And that's the *radical* left. The moderates are going along with the master plan, just want to slow it down a little.

If there was a *serious* left movement out there of any size, a revolutionary movement really interested in overthrowing the system and replacing it with something better, people would be turning to it.

-M.H.-

[A Marxist Historian]

None obviously, as attempting a socialist revolution right now would end in complete failure.

Just 'cuz socialism is the answer right now, doesn't mean we can get it next week. Patience me friend...

Though in Greece, if you had a real revolutionary party shooting for working class revolution, you could indeed get that right now. Now if only the KKE...

The *program* has to be revolution, and that means revolution ASAP, not in the sweet bye and bye, given the mess the world was in.

But it took the Bolsheviks nearly 20 years to get their revolution after they were founded and adopted their revolutionary program, which was to overthrow the Tsar ASAP, not find a way to make Tsarism nicer.

Nowadays, what with globalization and all, might not take that long. But not next week.

-M.H.-

[Delenda Carthago]

What happened was, 30 years of socialfascism.

30 years of nationalism, imperialism, totalitarianism, class colaboration propaganda, leader worshiping. This is what it leads to.

[Dogs On Acid]

What happened was, 30 years of socialfascism.

30 years of nationalism, imperialism, totalitarianism, class colaboration propaganda, leader worshiping. This is what it leads to.

What are you talking about? Social-Fascism was a name given to Social-Democracy by the Third International...

[Rainsborough]

Originally Posted by The Marxist Historian http://www.revleft.com/vb/revleft/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showthread.php?p=2172439#post2172439)
If there was a *serious* left movement out there of any size, a revolutionary movement really interested in overthrowing the system and replacing it with something better, people would be turning to it.

There probably is but they wouldn't be welcome on here.:rolleyes: