Why is there no monastic tradition in Judaism?

[MarxSchmarx]

Christianity and Buddhism are perhaps most famous for their monastic traditions among the world's major religions, but certainly other sects like Taoism have prominent monastic movements, and Sanyasa in Hinduism as well as Sufism in Islam are for all practical purposes monastic orders.

So why is there a lack of monasticism in Judaism, which spawned Christianity and Islam and is an old religion that had plenty of opportunity for an "organic" monasticism to develop?

[ComradeMan]

Christianity and Buddhism are perhaps most famous for their monastic traditions among the world's major religions, but certainly other sects like Taoism have prominent monastic movements, and Sanyasa in Hinduism as well as Sufism in Islam are for all practical purposes monastic orders.

So why is there a lack of monasticism in Judaism, which spawned Christianity and Islam and is an old religion that had plenty of opportunity for an "organic" monasticism to develop?

Ancient Israelite religion/Judaism did have some kinds of "monasticism" in a very loose sense, the Nazirites.

I suppose a problem with Christian or Buddhist type monasticism is the factor of celebacy; not having a family would be problematical in Judaism as the instruction is to go out be fruitful and multiply. Judaism is very family centred too as a religion.

Sannyasa are only supposed to become sannyasa as a final life stage, i.e. when they have already been a householder and had a family. Previously only the dvija varna ("caste") men could become sannyasa.

[Comrade Crow]

I think if you look at the practices of either Christian monks of the last 2000 years (ex: holy anorexics) or Hindu monks, for the length of it's faith (enough said), you'll probably see why Jews/Muslims don't really have a monastic tradition. There is the study of the mystical (sufi or kabbalah) but no monks, moderation in all things is holy, in Islaam, I figure it's the same mindset for Jews.

[MarxSchmarx]

I think if you look at the practices of either Christian monks of the last 2000 years (ex: holy anorexics) or Hindu monks, for the length of it's faith (enough said), you'll probably see why Jews/Muslims don't really have a monastic tradition. There is the study of the mystical (sufi or kabbalah) but no monks, moderation in all things is holy, in Islaam, I figure it's the same mindset for Jews.

Just a second there. I don't think Islam has been nearly as "anti-monastic" as Judaism. Historically if you look at the practice of the Dervishes and even of the Sufis, there is nothing quite like the devotion required in Judaism. Moreover, I think the persistence of vaguely esoteric and Sufiest devotions like Amadou Bamba and the practice of the endowments Wakf speaks to the ability of Islam to essentially incorporate a monastic tradition, however the purists may disagree. Kabbalah Judaism I think remains a fringe sect of Judaism, whilst Sufism out side of the middle east and south asia and even to some extent there has been a dominant force in the history of Islam

[Sun at Eight]

The Essenes bear some resemblance to the slightly post-hermitage days of Christian monasticism in Egypt. Christian monasticism really did begin as people fleeing out to the desert to live ascetically and pray to God, so you could sort of group a lot of the Hebrew prophets in there.

[hatzel]

Christian monasticism really did begin as people fleeing out to the desert

'Fleeing' may not necessarily be the best word, as fleeing generally suggests that one is fleeing from something, some kind of threat. In fact, it was when the threat was mitigated by the transformation of Christianity from a small 'sect' or 'elite clique' into a major 'state' religion under Constantine that monasticism started in earnest. The intention, as far as I can tell, was to forward what is effectively the religious version of a 'prolier-than-thou' attitude, whereby people who would previously have existed as a small group, considering themselves 'bastions of the true faith' and perhaps facing oppression (and the martyrdom that comes with it) suddenly found themselves a lot more mainstream, and so embraced monasticism as a means by which to maintain their position as 'bastions of the true faith' above the masses, and continue the possibility of martyrdom in the sense of material self-sacrifice. One could argue that the glaring difference between Judaism and Christianity-Islam is that the former did not have the same history of being a major, widespread, majority religion of vast empires and all that, but instead existed in the minority. As such, a further minority of the 'ultra-pious' would seem unnecessary...this may explain the dramatic fall of Nazaritism (if we'll call it that) and other such quasi-monastic shows of piety on Judaism's becoming an extreme minority religion in subsequent empires.

[Sun at Eight]

Yes, "fleeing" was probably not the best word without further context, since I meant "fleeing the temptations" of late antique urban Christianized society, but people automatically think of the persecution of early Christians.

However, Judaism does have many examples of the further minority of the ultra-pious after the rises of Christianity and Islam, although it was always centred on families and communities (a bit like small "extreme" Protestant communities in Europe, particularly at the same time as the rise of Hasidism).

EDIT: Just wanted to make clear that Hasidism starting out was different from the image we get today, since it was partly a mystical revolt against legalism, but it was still about piety and seeking a closer connection to God.

[Comrade Crow]

Just a second there. I don't think Islam has been nearly as "anti-monastic" as Judaism. Historically if you look at the practice of the Dervishes and even of the Sufis, there is nothing quite like the devotion required in Judaism. Moreover, I think the persistence of vaguely esoteric and Sufiest devotions like Amadou Bamba and the practice of the endowments Wakf speaks to the ability of Islam to essentially incorporate a monastic tradition, however the purists may disagree. Kabbalah Judaism I think remains a fringe sect of Judaism, whilst Sufism out side of the middle east and south asia and even to some extent there has been a dominant force in the history of Islam

Don't call me purist but I would tend to disagree. I have read and own many Sufi books, I love Rumi, I love Sufi history, I've spoken to many Sufis and all that but I wouldn't necessarily compare it to monasticism. In fact, speaking from a legal standpoint, I don't think a lot of the (if not all) practices of the Christian or Buddhist monks would be considered halal. I don't think (atleast to my knowledge) that Sufism has all that in common with the practices of Christian or Buddhist monks. Sufism is still Islaam, it follows all the same rules and such of Islaam, either Sunni or Shi'a. I'm no scholar or anything but I just don't think you could rightly compare Sufis to monks.

[Zealot]

Monasticism is frowned upon in most sects of Islam since the quran specifically outlaws it but the closest they have is Sufism. Judaism had Nazirites, scholars believe Jesus and John The Baptist were probably Nazirites.

[Zugunruhe]

Monasticism is frowned upon in most sects of Islam since the quran specifically outlaws it but the closest they have is Sufism. Judaism had Nazirites, scholars believe Jesus and John The Baptist were probably Nazirites.Are we talking about the same Jesus? Didn't Jesus drink wine at the last supper?

[Queercommie Girl]

I suppose a problem with Christian or Buddhist type monasticism is the factor of celebacy; not having a family would be problematical in Judaism as the instruction is to go out be fruitful and multiply. Judaism is very family centred too as a religion.


That's one thing that is common to Confucianism and Judaism.

In ancient China there were many debates between Confucians and Buddhists. The "family" was always something that came up a lot.

In order to adapt to the Chinese cultural background, Chinese Buddhism has evolved to become generally speaking more "worldly" than many other Buddhist branches. In traditional Chinese Buddhism there is a rule which states that no-one is allowed to become a monk or nun if his/her parents do not approve of it.

Even the Confucian argument against homosexuality is primarily that homosexuals cannot have natural children, rather than because "God disapproves" or something like that in many "Western" religions.

In ancient China, many people turned to Buddhism when they wanted to escape the tight clutches of Confucian family control.