Should the International Brigade be re-formed

[Barry]

“Crowned heads, wealth and privilege may well tremble should ever again the Black and Red unite!”
-Otto von Bismarck, dictator, Germany (said upon hearing of the split in the First International between Marxists and anarchists.)



We see still in many countries a large split between different left groups, however with conflict in many countries against the capitalist status quo as well as many countries intervening against their old allies in favour of "peoples freedom" suposidly. In this time of people revolt and with capitalism flailing theoretically should the International Brigades be reformed to support peoples revolutions as well as left wing nations.
Also do you beleive that scoialist, communists and anarchists could work within a democratic, volentary organisation based upon fighting for the aspirations of the working class be it for either cause. of course stringent rules would apply but a new international brigade could reguvinate as well as greatly enhance the left wing movement

[OhYesIdid]

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Sure, dude, where to?

[MarxSchmarx]

What is the international brigade? More often than not that phrase refers to volunteer soldiers from abroad who fought on the side of the loyalists in the Spanish civil war. Do you mean the first international?

If you mean reforming the International Workingmen's Association, I think something like that would be very productive. The appeal to historical continuity to such a venerated institution has the potential to serve as a mechanism of cohesion where other, newer attempts at uniting the anti-capitalist left have failed. I think something like this should be tried, esp. among the younger generation of activists willing to set aside the acrimony that informs the elders in their respective organizations.

[LegendZ]

What is the international brigade? More often than not that phrase refers to volunteer soldiers from abroad who fought on the side of the loyalists in the Spanish civil war. Do you mean the first international?
I'm pretty sure he means this. Anyway I say go ahead.
But when the UAVs bomb your camps don't come crying to Revleft.

[Barry]

lol, was just wondering in present time if a situation like the spanisvel war was to occur could the modern left adpat as it did back then to form a volentary force that would fight for the left. Again its in theory so I aint actually setting it it up myself was just wondering if the situation occured again could the modern left actually achieve this its hypothethical


outside of that a international left wing movement would be very productive, I only proposed this question again in relation to capitalism's international intervention in all countries. while the left as such has no huge international organisation.

[The Idler]

No. Why would you reform an organisation that lost in their conflict. It has proven its failure.

[Susurrus]

Sure, dude, where to?

Libya would be a good start. Find the comrades there and help them out against the tyrants and the imperialists/capitalists.

Maybe Greece too if it erupts.

[Susurrus]

No. Why would you reform an organisation that lost in their conflict. It has proven its failure.

It didn't fail, nor the militias; it was the Stalinist Popular Army that failed.

[Barry]

Its the basis of having a international voluntary force that would be able to fight against international imperialism and capitalism, the capitalists fight internationally and it seems to me that left theory to support the basis of aiding our comrades in their fight rather then focusing on our own regions.
Plus although the 1st Brigades failed by loosing the war as such, it also showed the great strenght of the left as hundreds traveled on their own to fight for the cause of the peoples freedom, supporting true international solidarity

[agnixie]

Libya would be a good start. Find the comrades there and help them out against the tyrants and the imperialists/capitalists.

Maybe Greece too if it erupts.

Yes, because it's totally leftists' place to die for a fascist. :rolleyes:

[Susurrus]

Yes, because it's totally leftists' place to die for a fascist. :rolleyes:

If you are referring to Gaddafi, then I would say that applies to tyrant category. If you are referring to NATO, then that fits in the imperialist/capitalist category.

[agnixie]

If you are referring to Gaddafi, then I would say that applies to tyrant category. If you are referring to NATO, then that fits in the imperialist/capitalist category.

Hm?

Gaddafi is a totalitarian third positionist, a nationalist and a militarist, who sees Africa as little more than his imperialist sphere of influence, much as Mussolini did, and otherwise sees it as a bunch of backward tribes to put under his influence. His ideology is based on plenty of racist arguments, and the general attitude of his regime has been a cultural genocide of the remaining berbers in Lybia (he will insist to whoever that his tribe are pure bedouins, and he wrote plenty on the racial superiority of the bedouin arabic people). When I use the word fascist, it's because it means something. That is fascism.

It's about as ridiculous proposal as offering to die for Franco because of limited french support meaning omg the republicans are agents of french imperialism (it's very clear with what they did that it was only british government pressure keeping them neutral).

But be my guest, crowned heads aren't going to tremble if you convince people to die for a billionaire dictator, they'll laugh their asses off because they found the best useful idiots.

[SHORAS]

Probably working towards a revolutionary situation (as much as this can be done) where you are is of greater help and importance to those suffering around the world and to greater humanity in the long term however slow or difficult. Perhaps someone could expand on the theoretical reasons if they'd like.

[Susurrus]

Hm?

Gaddafi is a totalitarian third positionist, a nationalist and a militarist, who sees Africa as little more than his imperialist sphere of influence, much as Mussolini did, and otherwise sees it as a bunch of backward tribes to put under his influence. His ideology is based on plenty of racist arguments, and the general attitude of his regime has been a cultural genocide of the remaining berbers in Lybia (he will insist to whoever that his tribe are pure bedouins, and he wrote plenty on the racial superiority of the bedouin arabic people). When I use the word fascist, it's because it means something. That is fascism.

It's about as ridiculous proposal as offering to die for Franco because of limited french support meaning omg the republicans are agents of french imperialism (it's very clear with what they did that it was only british government pressure keeping them neutral).

But be my guest, crowned heads aren't going to tremble if you convince people to die for a billionaire dictator, they'll laugh their asses off because they found the best useful idiots.

Urrgh. Let me spell this out as clearly as possible. I. SAID. I. CONSIDER. GADDAFI. TO. BE. A. TYRANT. WE. SHOULD. FIGHT. HIM.

[Aspiring Humanist]

Gaddafi is a dictator who needs to be overthrown and the rebels are capitalist backed fascists who lynch africans.

Any leftist resistance thats there is too minute to even consider sending an international brigade because it doesnt have a chance in hell of doing anything big. Both the rebels and Gaddafi have legitimate armies, a guerilla war would end up as a failure within weeks
To my knowledge Greece has had a few attacks on police officers recently but if things didn't really heat up after the EA shot a RPG at an american embassy I don't see what will

[REVLEFT'S BIEGGST MATSER TROL]

Yes Definately it should be reformed. What would it actually go do though?

[Susurrus]

the rebels are capitalist backed fascists who lynch africans.

Any leftist resistance thats there is too minute to even consider sending an international brigade because it doesnt have a chance in hell of doing anything big. Both the rebels and Gaddafi have legitimate armies, a guerilla war would end up as a failure within weeks


I think the ground-level rebels are probably aiming for something completely different from the higher-up capitalist backed fascists. Leftist ideas could quite easily take hold.

A few months ago, Gaddafi was the only one with an army. Batista had an army, too.

[thesadmafioso]

The first international brigade came into being only after specific circumstances were put into play, due to this it would likely be rather difficult to recreate in a contemporary context. There is not open conflict between armies of the right and the left in Greece or Libya as their was in Spain and because of this I do not believe that these situations are open to this sort of methodology, as great an undertaking as this would be in the realm of revolutionary theory.

[Susurrus]

The first international brigade came into being only after specific circumstances were put into play, due to this it would likely be rather difficult to recreate in a contemporary context. There is not open conflict between armies of the right and the left in Greece or Libya as their was in Spain and because of this I do not believe that these situations are open to this sort of methodology, as great an undertaking as this would be in the realm of revolutionary theory.

Perhaps smaller bands of leftist ronin/knights errant/whatever could wander the lands, fighting injustice where they find it.

[The Idler]

It didn't fail, nor the militias; it was the Stalinist Popular Army that failed.
The Stalinist Popular Army crushed the International Brigade and the militias in the Barcelona May Days. They clearly did fail.

[Black Sheep]

Libya would be a good start. Find the comrades there and help them out against the tyrants and the imperialists/capitalists.

Maybe Greece too if it erupts.

Yeh, you can crash on my couch

[Susurrus]

Yeh, you can crash on my couch

International Couch-Surfer Brigade. Beware the Armored Couch Division. :)

[Wanted Man]

Moved to Politics.

[Blake's Baby]

The Stalinist Popular Army crushed the International Brigade and the militias in the Barcelona May Days. They clearly did fail.

No, the 'Stalinist Popular Army' crushed the POUM Militia in the Barcelona May Days. The International Brigades were originally Stalinist formations. This doesn't mean that everyone in them was a Stalinist, or that foreign volunteers didn't go to Spain and join other militia units. But the 'International Brigades' as such were formed by the ComIntern.

[The Idler]

No, the 'Stalinist Popular Army' crushed the POUM Militia in the Barcelona May Days. The International Brigades were originally Stalinist formations. This doesn't mean that everyone in them was a Stalinist, or that foreign volunteers didn't go to Spain and join other militia units. But the 'International Brigades' as such were formed by the ComIntern.
Well even the International Brigade was crushed by Franco.

[Arlekino]

Would be nice to see them back. Why not. We struggle, we hate capitalist and we don't like imperialist. :):)

[The Idler]

Would be nice to see them back. Why not. We struggle, we hate capitalist and we don't like imperialist. :):)
Because it didn't work the first time.

[Reznov]

Its the basis of having a international voluntary force that would be able to fight against international imperialism and capitalism, the capitalists fight internationally and it seems to me that left theory to support the basis of aiding our comrades in their fight rather then focusing on our own regions.
Plus although the 1st Brigades failed by loosing the war as such, it also showed the great strenght of the left as hundreds traveled on their own to fight for the cause of the peoples freedom, supporting true international solidarity

I understand what your saying in theory and it is good, but that's about it.

How the hell would you even go about even starting something like this? Do you have the funds and means? Who will volunteer with you, "Leftists"? I doubt most RevLefters would leave their computer to actually go do something in the real world like that, myself included.

[#FF0000]

"Let's reform the International Brigades to fight on behalf of the national bourgeoisie or on behalf of the IMF in their Banker Wars"

No lets not.

[Susurrus]

How the hell would you even go about even starting something like this? Do you have the funds and means? Who will volunteer with you, "Leftists"? I doubt most RevLefters would leave their computer to actually go do something in the real world like that, myself included.

Well, if we're going by the original model, recruiters would be sent to various countries to find leftists, explain the crisis, then, should they wish to fight, make arrangements to get them into the country in crisis and sign them up. Yes, leftists. I would.

[#FF0000]

Where on earth would we go?

[Susurrus]

Where on earth would we go?

To quote myself:

"Libya would be a good start. Find the comrades there and help them out against the tyrants and the imperialists/capitalists.

Maybe Greece too if it erupts."

[Rusty Shackleford]

To quote myself:

"Libya would be a good start. Find the comrades there and help them out against the tyrants and the imperialists/capitalists.

Maybe Greece too if it erupts."
so, you form a supposedly communist international brigade to go to libya and fight alongside racists, monarchists, and neo-liberals against the only force in that country that has brought any sort of progress?

[#FF0000]

"Libya would be a good start. Find the comrades there and help them out against the tyrants and the imperialists/capitalists.

So you'd have a bunch of lightly armed civilians up against NATO bombers and NATO armed "rebels" and the Libyan army at the same time?

Why go to Libya to kill myself when I have bathtub whiskey and ambien right in my own home?


Maybe Greece too if it erupts."

That wouldn't be a military conflict, I don't think, and even if it were, what arms would these brigades have?

[Susurrus]

so, you form a supposedly communist international brigade to go to libya and fight alongside racists, monarchists, and neo-liberals against the only force in that country that has brought any sort of progress?

CAN NO ONE READ?!?!?!? This is like the third time someone's said something like this. I specifically said find the COMRADES and fight the IMPERIALISTS/CAPITALISTS AND the TYRANTS.

[#FF0000]

That doesn't really change that this is a bad idea.

[Manic Impressive]

hypothetically speaking if there was a counter revolution occurring then the formation of an international brigade would be good. But that's not really likely in the foreseeable future. There are a lot of experienced protesters who travel around Europe to protests, the papers were full of stories of "anarchists flooding in to Britain to cause trouble" last year, although that was obviously highly exaggerated I did meet a couple of French guys and one Dutch comrade who had come over specifically to protest. So maybe an international protest brigade could be set up? :p

[Aspiring Humanist]

It might be a good idea to get the foundations for a new international brigade going just in case some new struggle pops up that is clearly defined as fascists vs leftists in the near future which I think could happen


But more likely what's going to happen is expansion of the armchair activist brigades

[Rusty Shackleford]

ok seriously. guerrilla warfare and international brigades is all some people are about. its like some sort of disconnect.

There was no 'plan' for an international brigade in spain in case some general would mutiny and try to overthrow the government. What happened was a general mutinied THEN workers ran to get guns, THEN it slowly turned into a war, and THEN the international brigades were formed. It was a global mobilisation that in most cases was led by the 'stalinist' communist parties.

the framework that was there was the soviet union and the comintern! not some "hyper-revolutionary guerrilla underground super secret just in case its needed leadership and organization council."

[Conscript]

It's a better idea to hold off on that until there's a revolutionary state/whatever anarchists set up to seriously support one with things we probably will never have without them, like arms and expertise. Though maybe we could lay a logistical framework for it, already having ways of dealing with language barriers and transportation for example, instead of rushing to figure it out on the eve of revolution. Once it starts getting funded by revolutionaries, it can mobilize.

[Tommy4ever]

revleft is funny

[Susurrus]

I just acquired a pamphlet/small book entitled: Towards a Citizens' Militia: Anarchist Alternatives to NATO and the Warsaw Pact. Will report on contents.

[Barry]

I dont really see the point insittin around and twidling our tumbs until a revolutionary situation evolved to then go about setting up a organisation, this causes a situation were thingts end up rushed. I aint saying that a standing army should be formed nut a Brigade logistical network would surely be beneficial.
Also why focus solely on a facist vs revolution war, if a situation developed were by a revolution begun in a capitalist nation then surely would a international brigade be of benefit to aid the workers in their struggle against capitalism as well as supporting socialist nations against imperialist aggression after all the capitalists get a little violent when democracy doesnt work their way. :)

[Barry]

Because it didn't work the first time.

Is that really a valid excuse because a thing failed the first time then it doesnt work? the spanish civil war had alot of complex elemtents that contributed to the loss of the republic.
Also if you take the aim of the international brigade as solidarity and to stand and fight against fascism and imperialism then did they not succeed by merely fighting in the conflict.
Better to die on you feet then live on your knees?

[Barry]

I just acquired a pamphlet/small book entitled: Towards a Citizens' Militia: Anarchist Alternatives to NATO and the Warsaw Pact. Will report on contents.

Sounds like an interesting read:)

[Imposter Marxist]

This thread fails on so many levels, that I can't fathom it getting any worse.

To respond to the OP, the Brigades aren't something that we can just "form", especially not without a 'home base.' like the USSR.

[agnixie]

This thread fails on so many levels, that I can't fathom it getting any worse.

To respond to the OP, the Brigades aren't something that we can just "form", especially not without a 'home base.' like the USSR.

Thank you for proving my earlier point. The USSR was not a home base of the international brigades. It was a liquidator of the spanish revolution that shot everyone else in the back.

[black magick hustla]

the international brigades were an organ of counterrevolution called to defend the republican capitalist state against the nationalists. very few minorities actually pushed for the destruction of the republican state.

[The Idler]

Is that really a valid excuse because a thing failed the first time then it doesnt work? the spanish civil war had alot of complex elemtents that contributed to the loss of the republic.
Also if you take the aim of the international brigade as solidarity and to stand and fight against fascism and imperialism then did they not succeed by merely fighting in the conflict.
Better to die on you feet then live on your knees?Better to dies on your feet than live on your knees - yes. But someone once said "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results."

[Barry]

Better to dies on your feet than live on your knees - yes. But someone once said "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results."

ha ha touche. But can you see that theoretically there exists different cicumstances, all I was pointing out is that in theory the idea of a international volentary force that could support peoples revolutions in the world. I will admit that you cannot simply repeat strucutures and actions but learn from the mistakes of the past.
Would a internationally volentary force thats aims are solely to support peoples revolutions etc. be doomed to fail?

[Barry]

This thread fails on so many levels, that I can't fathom it getting any worse.

To respond to the OP, the Brigades aren't something that we can just "form", especially not without a 'home base.' like the USSR.

Many of those who joined the international brigades during the spanish civil war were not under the influence of the USSR. Example the Irish contingents were mostly class concious leftists who traveled themselves to spain to join the fight.
Also to add I was merely asking in this thread could a internationally volentary force aimed at supporting revolutions and te left be formed on a ideological basis as well as a practical one. The International brigade is the closest example.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Isn't it illegal, wouldn't we all be rounded up and put in jail?

[Susurrus]

Isn't it illegal, wouldn't we all be rounded up and put in jail?

Your point is?

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Your point is?

How would we organize such a thing? Was the original one outlawed?

[Susurrus]

How would we organize such a thing? Was the original one outlawed?

The original Brigadists often had their citizenship revoked or were denied social services and membership in their nations' armies. Those in America were labeled "pre-mature anti-fascists" and denied the ability to join the army. Today, they probably wouldn't arrest us until we returned if we were only joining an existing force, and they would probably only revoke citizenship. The only way they could get us is if we were initiating a conflict, which would be a neutrality violation.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

The original Brigadists often had their citizenship revoked or were denied social services and membership in their nations' armies. Those in America were labeled "pre-mature anti-fascists" and denied the ability to join the army. Today, they probably wouldn't arrest us until we returned if we were only joining an existing force, and they would probably only revoke citizenship. The only way they could get us is if we were initiating a conflict, which would be a neutrality violation.
Well I'm just remembering that one guy that tried to hunt down and kill Osama Bin Laden, isn't he in jail for that? The U.S. doesn't even let people voluntarily form a independent group that will help fight battles that they are in, you can't even form a militia to go help fight battles in Afghanistan if you wanted to. What would the reaction be if you wanted to go fight in a conflict the U.S. was against? I mean we're having activists arrested because they support FARC and the PFLP, supposedly giving material aid to them. Imagine if we're helping fight their battles, giving them arms and men and women to fight.

[Susurrus]

Well I'm just remembering that one guy that tried to hunt down and kill Osama Bin Laden, isn't he in jail for that? The U.S. doesn't even let people voluntarily form a independent group that will help fight battles that they are in, you can't even form a militia to go help fight battles in Afghanistan if you wanted to. What would the reaction be if you wanted to go fight in a conflict the U.S. was against? I mean we're having activists arrested because they support FARC and the PFLP, supposedly giving material aid to them. Imagine if we're helping fight their battles, giving them arms and men and women to fight.

Well, remember that capitalists and the powerful play by no laws but their own. The official reasons for the FARC and PFLP thing would either be because they are "terrorist organizations" or because they are against Israel, a US ally.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Well, remember that capitalists and the powerful play by no laws but their own. The official reasons for the FARC and PFLP thing would either be because they are "terrorist organizations" or because they are against Israel, a US ally.
Exactly, so what happens when a revolution is taking place somewhere? We just get on a plane and travel there with weapons and shit without getting stopped by our governments?

[Susurrus]

Exactly, so what happens when a revolution is taking place somewhere? We just get on a plane and travel there with weapons and shit without getting stopped by our governments?

Well, a bunch of Americans went to join the mujihideen in Afghanistan during the soviet invasion without telling the government. Plus we might not need to take weapons(though it's perfectly legal to do so).

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Well, a bunch of Americans went to join the mujihideen in Afghanistan during the soviet invasion without telling the government. Plus we might not need to take weapons(though it's perfectly legal to do so).
Well how would you organize such a group?

[Susurrus]

Well how would you organize such a group?

There would probably be a traveling committee that would survey the situation and determine if it merits our help, then report back to the rest of the organization, which would send recruiters to inform and recruit forces, as well as notify existing members and handle logistics.

[mosfeld]

In South Asia today, the focal point of world revolution, I think that it would be highly counter productive to send Europeans over there to fight and that it would be a burden on the people -- teaching them how to fight a guerrilla war, feeding them, waiting for them to adjust to the culture/geography/language/etc. This applies to other third world regions as well. If a conflict were to break out in Europe, then it might be possible and work out.

[Barry]

Well the aim is to create a international organisation so yes there were be many different levels of national backrounds to fight alongside them. Although there would be a level of strain to train these, after awhile the international organisation would eb able to provide a large amount of help as well as training. These organisations would also be able to train outside of conflicts.
The idea of an elected leadership to inspect and recommend involvment and then a vote would probably be best. There would be many loopholes in national governments, technically your not a mercenary because you have no financial/material gain, although the weapons would be a different element. Also as long as your are not breaking any national/international laws you cannot be arrested or banned. As long as your not breaking any national laws, I cannot see training being banned. Plus we cannot always take the soft appraoch of working within the capitalist laws which are designed to prevent anything of this sort. :)
Ideologically a united left appraoch without any purposful pushing one ideology would be best the aim would be set upon aiding revolutions and people. Theoretically the old international combined with a organisation etc.

[smashcapital]

Oh hell yes! Sign me up! :)

[Barry]

Oh hell yes! Sign me up! :)

join the group movement for the reformation of the international brigade:) comrade

[LegendZ]

join the group movement for the reformation of the international brigade:) comrade
Get a free CIA profile as well!

[Barry]

Get a free CIA profile as well!

lols as I stated in my posts this is merely a theoretical disscussion, and the group is merely a movement with no actual affiliations or plans:). Plus being in the left will get you that for free.:crying:
Anyways cant be squimish about capitalist state organisations following me, although would be a waste of government funds probably:confused:

[OhYesIdid]

Whoa, guy, hold on. Now, I know my comment (first, by the way) was not exactly poetry, so I guess I'll articulate my opinion:

This is a laughable idea.

I suppose I'll articulate further:

Look, man, the Spanish Civil War was a cool period in time and all, but this just seems like escapism. Today, the revolutionary's role in society is, you know, as a part of his society. Start simple: look for people who think like you. Then get in contact with leftist organizations, ask for propaganda, get involved in petitions and protests, speak to more people about politics, learn to debate, stencil neighborhood walls...the list goes on and on. Think about it this way: you might think the world guerrilla heroes out there need you, but you'd probably be just a drag who needs to be trained and treated (protip: foreign environments are foreign for you body too), and you'll probably get killed (or worse); your community, however, needs you. Just by being part of said community you've got a massive advantage over any outsider who may seek to come and organize; people know you, and they (hopefully) trust you; it's easier to form strong bonds when the people talking to you lives where you live, sees the same things, and is exposed to similar experiences. The best thing you can do for the communist movement right now is to work at your home, social circle, or workplace to fill the ranks of the international leftist movement. In fact, how about this: it's many times more heroic to stay in your community and fight to create a local movement, than to go on in some hopeless adventure and die tortured in some secret CIA facility in the middle of nowhere.

Fun fact: the CIA doesn't give a shit about international gun laws. In fact, they don't give a shit about any laws. Once you declare yourself an enemy, expect them to sabotage you (or worse. Much, much worse). This will surely unleash a shitstorm but I think you should know these people are evil. They'll kidnap your family, rape your loved ones, burn entire villages down and torture you to death in ways we the people aren't even allowed to know about. This is not a game, and warfare nowadays is not as simple as marching to the battleground and taking aim. It is a much more violent and sinister affair now, think long and hard before entering that hell.

[Barry]

Is this aimed at me?? I have outlined constantly that I am not setting up the international brigade, I am active on a local community basis in my country.
I am merely speaking theoretically and the question was should the international brigade be set up in these time?
and what would a modern international look like, only wth a large popular support could a functional brigade be set up and I am not attempting to set up the actual organisation:). :)My point was that although supporting the idea and disscussing the points above. Plus would not be advertising it on revleft if I was in the process of actively starting the international brigade.
This is the way in which I am disscussing the CIA I do not underestimate their threat

[praxis1966]

My point was that although supporting the idea and disscussing the points above.

Alright, fine. You've made your point. We all get it. Now let me make my point which is not coincidentally a distillation of OhYesIDid's points.

Basically, what I want to know is given that capitalist exploitation, state repression, patriarchy, racism, and all the rest exist right here where I am and therefore need to be destroyed right here where I am, why the hell do I need to travel halfway around the world like some naive, condescending, first-world narcissist in order to participate in some hypothetical revolutionary conflict? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that I disagree with internationalism and never would, but why do some people have this adventurist outlook on being a revolutionary? I can be a revolutionary right where I am.

So go on, convince me as to why I should be one someplace else...

[OhYesIdid]

Look, Barry, what worries me is the naive nature of such a suggestion. Death and warfare are serious business, and you seem to be treating them like they're serius bissnez.
However...
An international armed brigade nowadays would be very different. For one, I believe it would just be a network of small cadres, even individual persons, who would carry out small strategic sabotage actions, contacting through an IIRC or whatnot (full disclosure: I know nothing about how da toobs work). It would be much less heroic or bombastic, and would probably be hunted down within a year or so. Some people might remember them fondly afterwards, but that will greatly depend on what tendency they align themselves with.
Or Hugo Chavez can just get some young Venezuelans with clubs to attack a Colombian armored truck, die, and make a statue of them afterward.

[khad]

If there were an international brigade today, you'd be forced to look for arms from countries in the third world ruled by eccentrics with a soft spot for revolutions and aren't looking for a return on investment--like Gaddafi. Donations from left wing members of the NRA aren't going to cut it.

If you can't step it up to MANPADS/RPG/mortars, you might as well not even bother on today's battlefield.

By the way, in case you didn't realize, those are highly illegal.

[OhYesIdid]

If you can't step it up to MANPADS/RPG/mortars, you might as well not even bother on today's battlefield.

See, that's the thing: it would be silly today to march orderly into some battle field. Guerrilla skirmishes, man, guerrilla skirmishes.
Besides, the Iraquis did a pretty good work of fucking up Americans (note: war is horrible and I do not condone it) with IEDs, no?

[khad]

See, that's the thing: it would be silly today to march orderly into some battle field. Guerrilla skirmishes, man, guerrilla skirmishes.
Besides, the Iraquis did a pretty good work of fucking up Americans (note: war is horrible and I do not condone it) with IEDs, no?
Made from high explosives and artillery shells looted from army bases.

Call me when you can ebay a six-pack of 155mm shells, because I doubt you're brave enough to embark on a looting expedition.

[Barry]

Look, Barry, what worries me is the naive nature of such a suggestion. Death and warfare are serious business, and you seem to be treating them like they're serius bissnez.
However...
An international armed brigade nowadays would be very different. For one, I believe it would just be a network of small cadres, even individual persons, who would carry out small strategic sabotage actions, contacting through an IIRC or whatnot (full disclosure: I know nothing about how da toobs work). It would be much less heroic or bombastic, and would probably be hunted down within a year or so. Some people might remember them fondly afterwards, but that will greatly depend on what tendency they align themselves with.
Or Hugo Chavez can just get some young Venezuelans with clubs to attack a Colombian armored truck, die, and make a statue of them afterward.

I understand that warfare is not simply a walk in the park, neither is the idea of revolution, neither am I stating that we all go off to some other country and begin a revolution. I wished to explore idea's have changed so much as well as with modern society to see if the idea of a international supportive force could be ideologically supported or if the idea as such of international solidarity with revolutions was dead or changed somewhat.
Neither do I support foreign guerilla groups entering a nation to envoke a revolution. The naiviety you point out is based upon your asuumtion that I am stating that such a organisation would enter pre-maturely to a nation and attempt to start a revolution there. I was attempting to base this based upon a force that would support revolutions and revolutiopnary governments in their conflicts rather this. Your point would however support the basis for a guerilla war enacted by locals in a nation which they would eventually gather national support similar to cuba, however even guerilla warfare must expand to urban and larger scale conflict.



To address praxis1966 on a ideological basis I am basing this, however to disscuss why you shouldnt fight internationally is a more practical one, would you rather stay in your own nation and wait until the circumstances to beat the capitalist elite arise or would you rather to aid a current revolution in solidarity? Its more a question of do you support international solidarity, supporting a majority in a nation that is in a revolution. Again I do not mean to make this out to be adventure I am not saying we should all fly out and be the next che guevara's. Was wishing to see the lengths of as such internationalism, it all depends on your own view of internationalism. I support the revolutionary movement both in my own country and internationally, and that some nations wont neccessarily undergo a revolutionary situation for some times. Would you rather aid a current revolution or wait for your own countries one to arise?

[Barry]

Alright, fine. You've made your point. We all get it. Now let me make my point which is not coincidentally a distillation of OhYesIDid's points.

Basically, what I want to know is given that capitalist exploitation, state repression, patriarchy, racism, and all the rest exist right here where I am and therefore need to be destroyed right here where I am, why the hell do I need to travel halfway around the world like some naive, condescending, first-world narcissist in order to participate in some hypothetical revolutionary conflict? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that I disagree with internationalism and never would, but why do some people have this adventurist outlook on being a revolutionary? I can be a revolutionary right where I am.

So go on, convince me as to why I should be one someplace else...


But is a revolutionary defined as someone who excepts the political/ethnic/economic boundaries created by the feudal and then capitalist rulers? or someone who is defined by their membership of being in first/second or third world countires. Neither is a revolutionary a adventurist, a revolutionary is someone who sees the exploitation,repression, racism etc. that are tools of international capitalism and wishs to end this with no personal gain except that of living in a equal society.
Yes you could wait in your own country and hope that the exploited of your nation rise up and then manage to survive the power that is world capitalism, or as a revolutionary you can see that all of us share a common element outside of the divisions thought up to keep the poletariate weak and that is that we live in a global system in which we are all exploited, and as a revolutionary seek the development of global liberation from capitalism. International struggle is more important now then ever surely you would support the cause of any peoples who are in revolution then taking the naive appraoch of waiting for it to happen were you are.
Surely the left cannot simply succeed by just acting in the borders that capitalism created to divide the working class from ever uniting, Capitalism itself recognises no borders, to defeat established capitalism in some nations you have to defeat it internationally otherwise you merely get crushed by the greater scheme. Although work in our own area's is important surely the liberation of our brothers/sisters abroad is just as important.
Look thats just my view and my ideological basis for international solidarity and aid even outside of the international brigade. But of course you are entitled to your own opinions/views:)

[praxis1966]

But is a revolutionary defined as someone who excepts the political/ethnic/economic boundaries created by the feudal and then capitalist rulers?

No, which is why many revolutionary organizations work in cross border solidarity with one another.


Yes you could wait in your own country

Who's waiting, dude? You seem to think I've never been to a meeting or march before.


International struggle is more important now then ever surely you would support the cause of any peoples who are in revolution then taking the naive appraoch of waiting for it to happen were you are.

Again, who's waiting? Just because there isn't an open revolt that's as obvious as Egypt doesn't mean there isn't a movement where I am or that I'm not a part of it.


Surely the left cannot simply succeed by just acting in the borders that capitalism created to divide the working class from ever uniting,

Of course not. That's why the IWW, which I'm a member of, supports the BDS movement concerning Israel for instance. You know why? Because when we talked to representatives of various Palestinian labor unions that's what they asked us to do. We're not exactly sitting in isolation twiddling our thumbs over here.


Although work in our own area's is important surely the liberation of our brothers/sisters abroad is just as important.

If they're equally important (which I agree they are) then I might as well just stay here.

[Impulse97]

If there were an international brigade today, you'd be forced to look for arms from countries in the third world ruled by eccentrics with a soft spot for revolutions and aren't looking for a return on investment--like Gaddafi. Donations from left wing members of the NRA aren't going to cut it.

If you can't step it up to MANPADS/RPG/mortars, you might as well not even bother on today's battlefield.

By the way, in case you didn't realize, those are highly illegal.

Don't forget tanks, IFV's, arty, ack ack and communications equipment. It's gonna get real damn expensive real damn quick. Far more than I think any one leftist group can raise. Then theirs ammo, parts, fuel, and finding replacement fighters. Hell medical supplies and food too.

As much as I want to do something like this, I don't think it's even feasible. Without the above equipment your not gonna last six months.