why the rich fear violence in the streets

[bcbm]

http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2011/07/06/why-the-rich-fear-violence-in-the-streets/

[JustMovement]

Some disgusting comments:


coakl wrote:

"The solution is obvious: reduce the number of dangerous poor people, namely unemployed under-40 males.
How? Make abortions and birth control free to all teenaged girls or poor mothers already on welfare. Prevent the animals from being born."


however a brilliant response: "coakl – I am willing to give post-natal abortions to all rich people."

"Be afraid rich people. Be very afraid."

"Gosh! I sure hope the rich aren’t hunted down and slaughtered like hogs!"


"I’m arming myself and training not necessarily for a battle against the wealthiest people, but for the day I finally get to start killing conservatives. Rich, poor, “middle class”. I don’t discriminate. I’m an equal oppertunity sniper. The violence has already made it’s way here. People are dying in the street as we type. Starvation, desease, hunger. And all those ayn rand reading libertarians think it’s just dandy. Well, Lets just see if I can’t help them win the bullet hole contest. Keep your heads down, fellas. I like a challenge." (lol)

[Rusty Shackleford]

yeah, that Phractal guy just got a file opened on him.

[RedMarxist]

this is just sick. The terrorism, the murder. You should get evaluated or something.

you tell me you would train Child soldiers? that you would love to burn rich people inside their homes? are you a goddamn psychopath bcbm?

the rich don't deserve to die just because they have lots of accumulated capital, do they?

Look, in a true revolution, there would inevitably be violence. But when Lenin said to use violence, Lenin I don't think in my Opinion meant to blow up rich people with home made pipe bombs.

The NPA and Naxals are attacking legitimate targets. Military ones. that is revolution.

I hope to one day join the revolution in America. But I do not want to join YOUR revolution. Your "lawless" revolution of murder killing destruction. Granted I would attack military targets...but unarmed wealthy people who are just as innocent as you or I?

Sick.


When the revolution comes, I will wage a thousand year guerrilla war from the Rockies if I have to, if that is what it takes. But I will have rules. Your revolution will be that of wonton destruction and robbery. Peace.

[Rusty Shackleford]

I hope to one day join the revolution in America. But I do not want to join YOUR revolution. Your "lawless" revolution of murder killing destruction. Granted I would attack military targets...but unarmed wealthy people who are just as innocent as you or I?

Sick.


When the revolution comes, I will wage a thousand year guerrilla war from the Rockies if I have to, if that is what it takes. But I will have rules. Your revolution will be that of wonton destruction and robbery. Peace.


Appalachia is probably more conductive to class warfare.


probably the only flaw in your plan.

[JustMovement]

When do we start training the child soldiers bcbm?

[Hebrew Hammer]

When do we start training the child soldiers bcbm?

Bread for every household! A gun for every toddler!

:hammersickle:

Neat article, btw.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Look, in a true revolution, there would inevitably be violence. But when Lenin said to use violence, Lenin I don't think in my Opinion meant to blow up rich people with home made pipe bombs.

Didn't Lenin say something about how great it is to blow up rich people w/ pipe bombs in "State and Revolution"? I coulda swore I read something like that in there...


The NPA and Naxals are attacking legitimate targets. Military ones. that is revolution.

Dude the Naxalites have a past consisting of many communiques about how they cut off some landlord's head and kicked it off his roof and shit like that.


I hope to one day join the revolution in America. But I do not want to join YOUR revolution. Your "lawless" revolution of murder killing destruction. Granted I would attack military targets...but unarmed wealthy people who are just as innocent as you or I?

Sick.

"Placid and carefree sleeps the bourgeoisie, but the day of shuddering and fear, of ferocious tempests, of bloody revenge is approaching. The savage, blinding lights of explosions begin to light up its dreams, property trembles and cracks under the deafening blows of dynamite, the palaces of stone crack open, providing a breach through which will pour the wave of poor and starving."

:cool:

[Leftsolidarity]

this is just sick. The terrorism, the murder. You should get evaluated or something.

you tell me you would train Child soldiers? that you would love to burn rich people inside their homes? are you a goddamn psychopath bcbm?

the rich don't deserve to die just because they have lots of accumulated capital, do they?

Look, in a true revolution, there would inevitably be violence. But when Lenin said to use violence, Lenin I don't think in my Opinion meant to blow up rich people with home made pipe bombs.

The NPA and Naxals are attacking legitimate targets. Military ones. that is revolution.

I hope to one day join the revolution in America. But I do not want to join YOUR revolution. Your "lawless" revolution of murder killing destruction. Granted I would attack military targets...but unarmed wealthy people who are just as innocent as you or I?

Sick.


When the revolution comes, I will wage a thousand year guerrilla war from the Rockies if I have to, if that is what it takes. But I will have rules. Your revolution will be that of wonton destruction and robbery. Peace.

When did bcbm say any of that? All he did was post a link.

[bcbm]

i was trolling about class terror over in learning i guess it got out of hand:blushing:

[ZeroNowhere]

this is just sick. The terrorism, the murder. You should get evaluated or something.

you tell me you would train Child soldiers? that you would love to burn rich people inside their homes? are you a goddamn psychopath bcbm?

the rich don't deserve to die just because they have lots of accumulated capital, do they?

Look, in a true revolution, there would inevitably be violence. But when Lenin said to use violence, Lenin I don't think in my Opinion meant to blow up rich people with home made pipe bombs.

The NPA and Naxals are attacking legitimate targets. Military ones. that is revolution.

I hope to one day join the revolution in America. But I do not want to join YOUR revolution. Your "lawless" revolution of murder killing destruction. Granted I would attack military targets...but unarmed wealthy people who are just as innocent as you or I?

Sick.


When the revolution comes, I will wage a thousand year guerrilla war from the Rockies if I have to, if that is what it takes. But I will have rules. Your revolution will be that of wonton destruction and robbery. Peace.
Moonlight on horseback, till death we will ride!
Northern winds pushing us towards suicide;
Mars, god of war, masturbating in rage,
Wild libido I've freed from its cage!

[Le Socialiste]

Thank you for that lovely contribution, ZeroNowhere. :rolleyes:

Why did I enjoy reading the comments more so than the actual article? Anyway, RedMarxist needs to realize that the ruling-classes represent the result of capitalism's inherent exploitative nature: they benefit from the suffering of the people, and in this day and age the global proletariat. A revolution isn't truly a revolution unless all vestiges of the old order are purged from society. That includes all those wealthy folk who fear the resentment of those they exploit. They didn't go through some rags-to-riches fairy-tale to get where they are; they got where they are on the backs of workers. They more than deserve what the revolutionary willpower of the people deals them.

[W1N5T0N]

Damn...i posted without really reading the article. Now my post is somewhere between all that psycho hack in the comments section of that article. Shite...

Oh well.

[Pretty Flaco]

I could take a billionaires team of elite guard dogs hands down.

[Kamos]

Yeah, it's pretty obvious. Just like certain dictators, rich people have nothing to fear - except that they get killed out of nowhere.

[chegitz guevara]

They need to fear me! I've been in the news twice, both times in street fights. :D

[Pioneers_Violin]

the rich don't deserve to die just because they have lots of accumulated capital, do they?

Look, in a true revolution, there would inevitably be violence. But when Lenin said to use violence, Lenin I don't think in my Opinion meant to blow up rich people with home made pipe bombs.

The NPA and Naxals are attacking legitimate targets. Military ones. that is revolution.

I hope to one day join the revolution in America. But I do not want to join YOUR revolution. Your "lawless" revolution of murder killing destruction. Granted I would attack military targets...but unarmed wealthy people who are just as innocent as you or I?

Sick.


When the revolution comes, I will wage a thousand year guerrilla war from the Rockies if I have to, if that is what it takes. But I will have rules. Your revolution will be that of wonton destruction and robbery. Peace.

RedMarxist appears to be young, inexperienced and naive, as yet unexploited.
Please forgive him for disgracing our crimson flag with his timid squeamishness.

RM:

In the process of "accumulating capital" as you put it, most of these rich people have robbed others who can least afford it. This has accelerated since Reagan with huge numbers of people cheated out of their life savings, their pensions, their careers, their homes etc... causing widespread misery and premature death amongst the "non-rich". The "rich" that have caused this and willingly benefited from this don't deserve death.
They deserve something worse than death.

By the way, these same "rich" people will be the first to start shooting the revolutionaries. Or more likely, having their private armies shoot the revolters. Many, many revolters will die at the hands of these charming thieves and scoundrels you call "the rich".

Attacking "military targets only" is a pretty good recipe for suicide. Also, it's attacking poor slubs who probably had little choice in their enlistment. Attacking the source of the problem is a much wiser endeavor for the revolutionary.

Revolting against unjust laws and those that create and enforce them is lawless. So? Do you want to be a nice, law-abiding wage slave forever in the Neo-Feudalistic direction the world is headed?

When and if the revolution comes, there will be no time to separate the good from the bad rich. Some of the good will inevitably die along with the bad and a whole lot of the revolutionaries will die as well.
This is the nature of revolutions. It's a bloody endeavor.

The goal is to pursue the greater good. That's the whole point of revolt in the first place. People will die on both sides.

Read your history. Even in just one relatively minor Unionization effort the rich mine owners set up machine guns and hired the US Army Air force to bomb the miners trying to organize a union.

"The rich" haven't changed at all in the last hundred years. They are not in the least bit innocent.

[Obs]

[would you] love to burn rich people inside their homes?
Yeah, that sounds pretty awesome, actually.

Then we can hang up their charred remains with their guts hanging out and have a big party underneath. Maybe with this song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Orlbo9WkZ2E&NR=1) playing.

[Pioneers_Violin]

Yeah, that sounds pretty awesome, actually.

Then we can hang up their charred remains with their guts hanging out and have a big party underneath. Maybe with this song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Orlbo9WkZ2E&NR=1) playing.

Nah.
Waste of a perfectly good building. Burn them OUTSIDE of the house.

Maybe I'm a Stalinist, but I prefer this song: http://youtu.be/zGnOQHGJknA

The Soviets had the best revolutionary propaganda music ever. ;)

[Rusty Shackleford]

New Proposal: 'Operation: Wall Street Journal'

All of us have free time we spend wastefully posting on revleft and surfing the internet. So, i propose that whoever wants to can find an article on WSJ for coordinated commie and anarcho comments. Troll bourgie readers.

1 point of unity: dont attack others for their left ideology directly. you can indirectly but dont let it devolve into revleft.

1st rule: dont mention Revleft. you can use your RL names but its more fun when we do it this way.
2nd rule: dont go around calling for bloodletting or making real or fictitious threats against real people. Its not encouraged on here, and this is a 'safe' spot for us types on the internet. what makes you think its any more ideal to do it on well known mass-read media websites.

Anyone down?

(we all have real world problems and we all have real world responsibilities, but when were not dealing with them and are enjoying our spare time, we can engage in a little anon-inspired internet rampagery. i cant see how this would be completely useless. If anything, its for a good laugh)

[Pioneers_Violin]

Sounds like fun.

[Broletariat]

New Proposal: 'Operation: Wall Street Journal'

All of us have free time we spend wastefully posting on revleft and surfing the internet. So, i propose that whoever wants to can find an article on WSJ for coordinated commie and anarcho comments. Troll bourgie readers.

1 point of unity: dont attack others for their left ideology directly. you can indirectly but dont let it devolve into revleft.

1st rule: dont mention Revleft. you can use your RL names but its more fun when we do it this way.
2nd rule: dont go around calling for bloodletting or making real or fictitious threats against real people. Its not encouraged on here, and this is a 'safe' spot for us types on the internet. what makes you think its any more ideal to do it on well known mass-read media websites.

Anyone down?

(we all have real world problems and we all have real world responsibilities, but when were not dealing with them and are enjoying our spare time, we can engage in a little anon-inspired internet rampagery. i cant see how this would be completely useless. If anything, its for a good laugh)

The last time something like this was organised (operation net invasion) it got shut down by The Man, I mean the mods.

[Rusty Shackleford]

The last time something like this was organised (operation net invasion) it got shut down by The Man, I mean the mods.
well, whatever they do, they do.

[The Idler]

Individual capitalists might fear it, but the interests of the capitalist class as a whole are served by low-level street-violence as a moral excuse for repression. It sounds like a bunch of Che Guevara meets Call of Duty fantasists on here sometimes.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Individual capitalists might fear it, but the interests of the capitalist class as a whole are served by low-level street-violence as a moral excuse for repression. It sounds like a bunch of Che Guevara meets Call of Duty fantasists on here sometimes.
no doubt conditions are creeping at a slow pace in the US towards whats going on in Europe. So, it is a legitimate fear expressed by the bourgeoisie here. But, going around saying you are going to brick their faces is silly.

[Rss]

If god had wanted capitalists to live, he would not have created communists. Easy as that.

[The Idler]

If god had wanted capitalists to live, he would not have created communists. Easy as that.
What a stupid mindless violent provocative statement.

[Hud955]

this is just sick. The terrorism, the murder. You should get evaluated or something.

you tell me you would train Child soldiers? that you would love to burn rich people inside their homes? are you a goddamn psychopath bcbm?

Apparently so!

It appears to have something to do with "the revolutionary will of the people". For 'people', in this instance, yes, read self-selected power-heads and 'psychopaths'.

Revolution is about abolishing classes to eliminate the conflicts and contradictions of capitalism. Capitalists are not the enemy of socialists, capitalism is. I get the feeling that idea of Marx's has been drowned out somewhere by a general outbreak of testosterone poisoning.

[Obs]

Revolution is about abolishing classes to eliminate the conflicts and contradictions of capitalism. Capitalists are not the enemy of socialists, capitalism is. I get the feeling that idea of Marx's has been drowned out somewhere by a general outbreak of testosterone poisoning.
Yeah, I see how unrealistic it is to expect the individuals who benefit from capitalism to want to defend it. Obviously it's just a matter of winning them over with superior arguments, preferably over a warm cup of green tea.

No, wait, that's asinine.

[Pretty Flaco]

Some people on this site are scary violent. :huh:

[Rusty Shackleford]

yeah, its dumb. i mean, tone it down a bit. seriously.

[Os Cangaceiros]

"Let us devastate the avenues where the wealthy live." - Lucy Parsons :cool:

[Cane Nero]

The passion for destruction is also a creative passion.

[Os Cangaceiros]

"Night and day he [the revolutionist] must have but one thought, one aim -- merciless destruction. Striving cold-bloodedly and indefatigably toward this end, he must be prepared to destroy himself and to destroy with his own hands everything that stands in the path of the revolution." - Nechayev :cool:

[#FF0000]

It really took way too long for Nechayev to get quoted in this thread.

[BostonCharlie]

I'm shocked, shocked, to learn that avowed revolutionary leftists are entertaining ideas of violent class war.:ohmy:

OK, I know the rules against advocating or getting very explicit about wet work on this forum are there for good sound practical reasons, but wouldn't it suffice to warn miscreants that bourgeois states have big ears and it's best to be discreet in public places? Why all the prissiness? Is not this place chock full of Leninists, Maoists and other tendencies who did not exactly hold with Quakerish notions of social transformation?

Everyone needs to keep it real.

[The Intransigent Faction]

Some people on this site are scary violent. :huh:

Squeamish? It's supposed to be scary---if you own the means of production/make a living by exploiting workers.

Don't get me wrong. Being bloodthirsty for the hell of it won't do the world any good. Violence has had its place in political movements in the past, though, and it will continue to as long as hierarchy and exploitation exist.
If anything, it's far more "scary" to be too afraid to use necessary violence to overthrow a system that causes countless unnecessary deaths every day/month/year from starvation, disease, etc. You know what else was "scary violent"? WW1, the Vietnam war...you get the idea.

If anybody's sociopathic, it's those people who fucking sit around in multimillion dollar mansions on piles of money with full knowledge of the resultant human suffering from the system that made them so wealthy---not the people who argue that wealth must be expropriated by force if necessary.

I've turned my back on Maoism, but one thing that Mao said still rings true: "A revolution is not a dinner party."
---End rant.

[Hud955]

The passion for destruction is also a creative passion.

No it isn't. It is just a cliche.

[Hud955]

Yeah, I see how unrealistic it is to expect the individuals who benefit from capitalism to want to defend it. Obviously it's just a matter of winning them over with superior arguments, preferably over a warm cup of green tea.

No, wait, that's asinine.

It is pretty assinine to confuse the necessity of defending a revolution with the psychotic macho fantasies of hormonally challenged teenagers (even middle-aged ones).

[RedMarxist]

exactly. I may be in HS, but I have this to say: For all those peaceful Marxists who sit around saying we need a revolution yet don't do anything... learn from the past.

If Lenin hadn't used violence, then the USSR would have never have been created

If Mao had not used violence, then the communists would have never taken power in China

If Ho Chi Mihn, whom I admire very much, had not used violence, Vietnam would have been a very different place today(not to sound as if I'm defending the current Vietnam though)

And so too today in America. If we, fellow communists, don't use violence against the rich and government, then our dreams of a 'socialist America' will never come true. We have to start a revolution or 200 years from now the Earth will be devoid of all life.

Mao On Guerrilla Warfare: "Historical experience is written in iron and blood."

so too now shall we Communists orchestrate a guerrilla war against the capitalist ruling class. May the president and wealthy few tremble in fear at an American proletarian Revolution.

[Rusty Shackleford]

this isnt about total pacifism vs total violence. of course social upheaval is violent. of course the state is violent. and of course class warfare ultimately ends in social upheaval.

the problem is just being violent for violence sake.


EDIT: Also;


so too now shall we Communists orchestrate a guerrilla war against the capitalist ruling class. May the president and wealthy few tremble in fear at an American proletarian Revolution.
LOL

[RedMarxist]

No, I fucking mean it. Figures that people think Guerrilla warfare in America is 100% IMPOSSIBLE, Despite you know, the good terrain, the masses of poor that could potentially support us, etc.

It's the only freaking way were liberating the proletariat, that and peacefully protesting like in Greece and getting tear gassed for it-or worse

Let me refer briefly to the Taliban, our chief enemy. They kept the most powerful army on Earth engaged for 10 whole years.

So, if they can engage us for 10 years in Afghanistan, than what is stopping us from keeping the Most powerful army on Earth engaged for an even longer period of time in our own country?

It is the only way. Call me a future terrorist all you want, I'm sticking by my decision. I hope YOU-the FBI and the CIA are monitoring this site, because a storm is coming. Through the vanguard party may we wage an unstoppable guerrilla war against the ruling classes who rape and pillage entire nations for profit.

I may be in HS right now, but 10 years down the road I may be part of a proletarian army.

[Robocommie]

hay guys lets go play Mario Kart

[La Comédie Noire]

The way they talk about violence, sometimes I think the business and military elites know something we don't about economic and ecological threats.

[RedMarxist]

hey everyone, ever heard of the Swamp Fox? you know that guy who waged a Guerrilla war against the British for a really long time before finally driving them out of S. Carolina? http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/biography/fox.html

well, how come guerrilla warfare to you is IMPOSSIBLE if this guy did it in the 1700's?

If he did it with primitive weaponry, lack of supplies, and being surrounded by tea drinking British soldiers then we can do it too.

[Robocommie]

hey everyone, ever heard of the Swamp Fox? you know that guy who waged a Guerrilla war against the British for a really long time before finally driving them out of S. Carolina? http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/biography/fox.html

well, how come guerrilla warfare to you is IMPOSSIBLE if this guy did it in the 1700's?

If he did it with primitive weaponry, lack of supplies, and being surrounded by tea drinking British soldiers then we can do it too.

Jesus I miss being 15 sometimes.

[Rusty Shackleford]

No, I fucking mean it. Figures that people think Guerrilla warfare in America is 100% IMPOSSIBLE, Despite you know, the good terrain, the masses of poor that could potentially support us, etc.

It's the only freaking way were liberating the proletariat, that and peacefully protesting like in Greece and getting tear gassed for it-or worse

Let me refer briefly to the Taliban, our chief enemy. They kept the most powerful army on Earth engaged for 10 whole years.

So, if they can engage us for 10 years in Afghanistan, than what is stopping us from keeping the Most powerful army on Earth engaged for an even longer period of time in our own country?

It is the only way. Call me a future terrorist all you want, I'm sticking by my decision. I hope YOU-the FBI and the CIA are monitoring this site, because a storm is coming. Through the vanguard party may we wage an unstoppable guerrilla war against the ruling classes who rape and pillage entire nations for profit.

I may be in HS right now, but 10 years down the road I may be part of a proletarian army.


Im going to be harsh, and its not because of your age or anything. But, your idea is stupid and unproductively dangerous.

Seriously. Get that idea of a proletarian guerrilla army in the US mountains our of your head. NOW.

Every country has "good terrain" for launching a great and glorious insurgent proletarian revolutionary army. Does it mean you do it? and does it mean a group of armed ideologues in the hills becomes a glorious insurgent proletarian revolutionary army? fuck no.

The US population is primarily Urban. And whatever rural population there is, its sparse. And no one will give a fuck about Asspen getting shut down because the vanguard is shooting guns around it. Its not going to make revolution happen.

The US isnt Cuba, Bolivia, Pre-1950 china, or the Congo. It is a highly urbanized and higly industrialized country(even compared to the rest of the world, the US still does produce a lot but thats besides the point) and theres also good roads going EVERYWHERE.

Also, The US Military probably has had fantasies about getting invaded on either coast and having to run back into the hills and mountains to defend murika. What makes you think some disconnected and isolated band of ideologues with guns is going to avoid the US military, FBI, Police, and Minutemen type groups? Especially when it is basically something they have real plans for.

Its not going to resonate with the working class AT ALL. It will just end up being a historical attraction or peculiarity. Also, "but what about the RAF, Weather Underground, and SLA?" Sure they had manifestos on urban guerrilla warfare with things like "Das Conzept Stadtguerrilla" But what happened? They failed. They failed miserably. Even if they had some popular support, its not like it was going to create popular action.

Another good example is the Narodniks and what not in Russia. They managed to kill the Tsar. but nothing happened. There was another Tsar to replace the last one!

Seriously. Stop it.


Also, The Taliban has been at it for decades in a country that is largely unmapped and there are no maps of towns and hamlets outside major cities. It is highly rural and also very impoverished. The US is pretty much the exact opposite.


So, i will say it again. Stop it.

[Obs]

hey everyone, ever heard of the Swamp Fox? you know that guy who waged a Guerrilla war against the British for a really long time before finally driving them out of S. Carolina? http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/biography/fox.html

well, how come guerrilla warfare to you is IMPOSSIBLE if this guy did it in the 1700's?

If he did it with primitive weaponry, lack of supplies, and being surrounded by tea drinking British soldiers then we can do it too.
I'm not sure you understand how guerilla wars work.

[RedMarxist]

uh yes I do. If not guerrilla warfare, what do you suppose we do to create a socialist state in America? sit around and discuss creating one?

What makes you think it isn't physically possible to wage one in modern day America?

How could you NOT get poor Appalachians to join your cause? they'd readily take up a gun if that meant a better future then.

and the urban population? what makes you think they would not support you, at least give solidarity, if the success of your revolution meant and end to capitalist oppression?

and concerning "urban guerrilla warfare", what makes you think the revolution cannot be both rural and urban? We could attack police stations as well as government buildings. Terrorism yes, but effective.

OK, what do you suppose we do if none of my retort above convinces you? drink hot chocolate in the freezing rain well asking the president to give us true socialism? fat chance.

We must take control of the state and make them give us socialism. After that lets hope it withers away(and yes i read The State and Revolution)

[Rusty Shackleford]

If revolution were to occur in the West, it would be more like the Russian Revolution than all the other revolutions that have taken place.

Not by guerrilla war.

[Decommissioner]

The idea of guerilla war in the US is silly. Socialism in the US can only come with mass strikes, walkout, and automation of the working class. Guns only come into play when the capitalists try to destroy burgeoning councils created by the workers. Socialism comes when the majority of workers decide to overthrow the current state in favor of a state run by proletarians, not when a group of people decide to fight the military and take over an already established rotten bourgeois state.

I don't think there will be workers rioting rich neighborhoods and burning down houses on a mass scale and lynching capitalists in the streets. It wont be a crime to be a capitalist because the capitalists property will be expropriated...making them just like everyone else. We will crush capitalism, we will not crush capitalists. This notion of trying to justify first blood of individual capitalists, you guys have no idea how far reaching and dangerous that concept is. I know people who are capitalists who are more poor than I am. Do they need to be executed? The petit bourgeois mom and pop restaurant owners? Chances are those of you with killboners for murdering capitalists are probably close to a small shopkeeper or someone in management too.

Big capitalists that have commited crimes should stand trial...not because under capitalism they were a capitalist..but because under capitalism they used their power and influence to commit crimes against people.

[RedMarxist]

should big capitalists have a right to stand trial? Or should they be shot like dogs?

opinions?I remember trying to make the argument to my mother(I need a life I know) about whether or not Gaddafi has a right to stand trial...or be shot for this crimes against humanity. She said everyone has a right to a fair trial regardless of the crimes held against them. But I countered by saying: but won't they be 100% of the time found guilty, as the people trying them our naturally opposed to a former dictator? that did not work.

as you can see i fail at arguing. two, what do you think? does a brutal dictator or a capitalist deserve to bet shot in the back of the head execution style, or does he/she deserve a trial?

[Rusty Shackleford]

First: i would suggest you stop arguing with your mother about whether or not political prisoners should be shot.

Two: i would suggest you stop arguing that political prisoners should be shot.

Sure, executions can come in war, and maybe after a war for crimes made in war. But prisons arent supposed to be death factories. They should be there to reform.

[Cane Nero]

No it isn't. It is just a cliche.
It can be a cliche, but it´s true...

It takes a lot of creativity to rebuild things again after you have destroyed everything...

[Obs]

RedMarxist, totally serious question here, no bigotry intended: are you autistic?

[chegitz guevara]

People like RedMarxist are going to get us all shot.

[JustMovement]

Whoa, how did you go from accusing people they are terrorist, child soldier training monsters to asking if capitalists, and I quote here, should be killed like dogs and fantasising about shooting people in the back of the head???

A bit of an extreme u-turn!

But to answer your questions seriously, in Europe there was a period in the 70s called the years of lead where various far-left and far-right groups conducted terrorist operations. These involved putting bombs in banks, killing judges, industrialists, politicians, kidnapping people, and so on.

A lot of people died, and it defused a potentially revolutionary situation as people were scared and turned away from the left as they were disgusted by these acts. In Italy, people think the decline of the left started with the execution of the head of government Moro at the hands of the Red Brigades. The government is thought to have refused to negotiate with the Red Brigades, and have Moro killed basically, so they could draw support away from the communists. The state will use these actions against any radical movement.

Personally I think these acts were morally wrong. But perhaps more importantly they were completely counter-effective. Revolution comes at the hands of the workers, through protests, strikes and seizure of property. People of course need to defend themselves, but this has to be done on a mass basis, and not by some military vanguard.

[RedMarxist]

uh, yes I do have autism thank you very much!

I wasn't 'fantasizing' about, and i quote, 'shooting people in the back of the head'. No, I was making the argument that because he[Gaddafi] killed a bunch of his own people, that should not he be barred from a fair trial, as he will no doubt lose anyway?

I'm not 'sick' if that is what your insinuating. No, I don't think capitalists should actually be shot. I was asking: should they get a trial, or be executed?

I did not say: lets kill all the capitalists!

[Obs]

uh, yes I do have autism thank you very much!
Yeah, thing is, I'm autistic as well. I used to make the same kind of really grandiose, fantastic statements you're coming with here, but what you need to do is just put a set of really heavy brakes on your imagination. Yeah, it's fun to imagine yourself running around in the mountains with a gun and being some sort of modern freedom fighter, but thing is, if that was the solution, it would've been done by now. You need to listen to some of the people who've been doing this for years, because they generally know what they're doing - what we need right now is to make people take us seriously, and running off to the woods and pretending to be FARC isn't going to help us to that end.

I'd suggest you slow down, start reading, find an organisation to work with, and let the more experienced folks there teach you. Only when you've become an integrated part of that organisation, and you've learned how to speak your case, should you even consider becoming as publically outspoken about your political beliefs as you seem to be right now. That's what worked for me.

[JustMovement]

apologies, fantasising was the wrong word.

[RedMarxist]

are you insulting me for having autism, JustMovement?

[JustMovement]

No I was genuinely apologising for using the wrong word.

[nuisance]

this shit is crazy.

[Luís Henrique]

This thread is sooooooooooooooooo trashable...

Luís Henrique

[Hud955]

exactly. I may be in HS, but I have this to say: For all those peaceful Marxists who sit around saying we need a revolution yet don't do anything... learn from the past.

If Lenin hadn't used violence, then the USSR would have never have been created

If Mao had not used violence, then the communists would have never taken power in China

If Ho Chi Mihn, whom I admire very much, had not used violence, Vietnam would have been a very different place today(not to sound as if I'm defending the current Vietnam though)

A very good reason to avoid violence then.

Learn from the past? It seems you haven't learned much of a lesson. Thanks to your heroes the socialist movement is still fighting off 60+ years of anti-working-class state capitalist propaganda. At least Lenin took the Soviet Union out of the war (The only valubable thing he ever did for the working class and the peasantry).


And so too today in America. If we, fellow communists, don't use violence against the rich and government, then our dreams of a 'socialist America' will never come true. We have to start a revolution or 200 years from now the Earth will be devoid of all life.

I shudder to think what your dream of a 'socialist America' looks like and at what cost to working class lives and wellbeing you think it should be brought about.

[Rss]

words

I've noticed that as anti-working class rhetoric and balls-to-the-wall mudslinging of bourgeoise media gets more and more intense, it usually is a signal that working class movements are doing their jobs.

Now, I'm not an anarchist, but admittedly they have been doing a good job rocking the boat in Greece, considering that they have been in the crosshairs of bourgie media big guns.

This brings us to this question: Who are under worst bombardments of mainstream media mudsling barrage? ML-movements, Maoists and in Europe, anarchists. Oi, where are trots and leftcoms?

[nuisance]

Oi, where are trots and leftcoms?
selling perhaps or on the internet trying to smear other groups.

[praxis1966]

this is just sick. The terrorism, the murder. You should get evaluated or something.

you tell me you would train Child soldiers? that you would love to burn rich people inside their homes? are you a goddamn psychopath bcbm?

the rich don't deserve to die just because they have lots of accumulated capital, do they?

Look, in a true revolution, there would inevitably be violence. But when Lenin said to use violence, Lenin I don't think in my Opinion meant to blow up rich people with home made pipe bombs.

The NPA and Naxals are attacking legitimate targets. Military ones. that is revolution.

I hope to one day join the revolution in America. But I do not want to join YOUR revolution. Your "lawless" revolution of murder killing destruction. Granted I would attack military targets...but unarmed wealthy people who are just as innocent as you or I?

Sick.


When the revolution comes, I will wage a thousand year guerrilla war from the Rockies if I have to, if that is what it takes. But I will have rules. Your revolution will be that of wonton destruction and robbery. Peace.

A) I could give two shits what Lenin said. B) Show me a rich person and I'll show you a thousand poor people he's starved half to death to get his fortune. How again is that innocence?

[synthesis]

I like how bcbm takes the time to remove the capital letters from his thread titles... trendy wanker.

[black magick hustla]

i think some people misinterpret what "class violence" is. it has very little to do with substitutionalist individual violence i think. "class violence" looks more like greece, tunisia, or algeria looks like.

[Robocommie]

My idea of "classy violence" is to slowly boil my enemies in a cauldron made of the finest Toledo steel filled with the most luxurient olive oil imported from Greece, or rolling boulders on top of them carved from fine Tuscan marble, or impaling them on stakes made from Brazilian cherry wood.

It's both violent and VERY chic.

[RedSquare]

Hmm...sounds like a good time to set up or invest in a security company! What say they when those who guard the gates for a pittance open them and join the hordes of their fellow working class?

[bcbm]

I like how bcbm takes the time to remove the capital letters from his thread titles... trendy wanker.

i type them instead of copying and pasting them from the source, actually:sleep: