Family members approaching fascism

[Black Sheep]

Okay , father & godfather are spewing shit about
"those damn immigrants"
"the jews control the world and are heads of the biggest corporaations"
"all you see in X square are non-greeks"
"X% of Y crimes are committed by Z nationality immigrants"

I've pretty much used up my arsenal, including

-Economic conditions leading to criminal behavior
-Jews ascending to banking elite due to 19th century germany's land ownership restrictions
-counterexamples of non criminal immigrants
-the ideology of a nation being a fraud
-division of workers,instead of kicking their bosses' asses


God damn, my father is also a veteran communist.
Please advise.
Arguments would be good, but i think what i need is a strategy.

[Revolutionair]

Ask HIM what he is going to do about it. Ask him about all of his concerns. When he says something like "throw out all the immigrants", ask him whether he really thinks that that will solve all of his problems, ask him whether that will strike the root of the problem.

Propose Marxist strategies, proof that they work more effective than right-wing techniques. (because right-wing techniques never solve the problem, they were not designed to solve the problem, they were designed to keep the ruling class in power)

[Kamos]

When I sent my reply I got a message saying "Sorry - this forum is not accepting new replies!" What's the deal with that? Anyway, pretty much what Psycho said (edit: in post #3).

[communard71]

Strategy for family members: tread lightly because they are your family, but make it clear you are not willing to engage with them in useless debate forever. I have similar issues with brother/father even mother at times and I give simple, clear counter examples and if I notice over time there is no change in their ability to understand, or even their willingness, I will no longer engage them in political/economic conversation and will politely leave the room if its begun, intentionally leaving those behind with an uncomfortable recognition. They know it can’t be as simple as they want it to be. They know increased immigrants don’t steal jobs and create social unrest, that those conditions are made possible by Capital and that immigrants, like all others, respond to the stimuli created by the ruling class. I have said it, and they see it from their own experience. So I leave them with that recognition. With non-family members, it’s easier. Debate, even confrontation feels more natural and can work, but not family, or at least not right away (I have physically fought with my own brother over these ideas and it was a mess).

[theblackmask]

I've had similar experiences with my dad and brother years ago, and I really have to agree with the "tread lightly" approach. Make your points as clear as you think they need to be without causing too much conflict...just make sure your point is communicated. Once it gets to the point where either of you is getting frustrated, back off...it's not worth ruining your relationship over.

In the end, as is happening now, material circumstances combined with your consistently expressed viewpoint may have a real effect. A few months ago my dad tried telling me something about communism and Karl Marx and I about shit myself. Assuming your family isn't really a bunch of fascists assholes at heart, I think they'll come around with time :)

[Comrade Crow]

I would definately say you need to try to change their views, that's atrocious. You're a family member so they would probably listen to you more so than anyone else. You don't even have to involve specific politics just common sense.

[BE_]

Some of family members act the same way. My grandpa is always talking about "them Mexicans". I've never tried to argue with my grandpa because he is the kind of person that always acts like hes right no matter what and would probably get in a fit of anger if i debate with him.

Just get a good argument from the people on the forums (I'm to time constrained to think of an argument) and don't be to harsh and say crude insults because that can effect your relationship with them ( I've seen that firsthand). Just keep it calm and friendly and you could possibly change their minds. Good luck!