Chavez - "No Reason to Honor Columbus"

[Valkyrie]

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/americas/10/...reut/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/americas/10/11/venezuela.columbus.reut/index.html)

[dannie]

he has a point, the spanish and portugese explorers did violate what is now called, the human rights

[Frances of Assisi]

Columbus tried to sell the natives into slavery. He IS responsible for much of what the conquistadores did in the future. He should not be honored, but should be a figure scorned and loathed. Celebrating this day is like celebrating a "hitler day."

[Marxist in Nebraska]

Chavez is absolutely right. Columbus is in the history books because he raped, murdered, and stole from harmless Native inhabitants in the Caribbean. This established a precedent of genocide for profit throughout the Western Hemisphere. Columbus is a pioneer... in mass murder, which is hardly worth a celebratory holiday.

Please go to the CNN link above and vote in the poll. The question is whether Columbus Day should be a day to celebrate or mourn, and 65% favor it as a celebration for the genocidal conqueror. Get out and represent your conscience.

[Y2A]

Oh god. Who cares this happened hundreds of years ago. I do not blame whites for the problems of my people like Chavez does. And wether you like it or not good things did come from european imperialism.

[Bornagainlefty]

Sadly the consequences of the conquest are still apparent today in much of South America. The rich landowners are often directly descended from Europeans, and much of the poor peasant population are indigenous peoples. Columbus "discovering the americas was a complete and utter disaster for the natives. I read somewhere that the population plummeted by something like 35 MILLION !!!!! If the natives are now getting any benefit from it, that is little compensation.

[RED CHARO]

Who monitors these sites????
Y2A;
The Japanese where never conquered by Europeans, and there civilization manged to flourish.....
What good came to the Indiginous people of all continents from the conquests?????

[the SovieT]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2003, 04:20 PM
he has a point, the spanish and portugese explorers did violate what is now called, the human rights
the human rights did not existed on those times...


becuase if you choose to follow that criteria you will notice that the natives were violating the same code, this with theyr canibalist practices, theyr possession and use of slaves, and theyr ceremonial executions....


what the spanish, Portuguese, Holandese, English etc etc did was force theyr culture to entire continents, rape thery lands, destroy entire cultures, anhilate tribes, and most of all use them for slave labour...

this not to refer the pests and diseases brought by them, the intolerence and arrogance, the false sense of patriotism and nacionalism on a land that did not belong to them, the forced migration of millions of africans to the Americas.... the list goes on...


it has nothing to do with human rights...

[Ian]

I love that picture Flores :)

[the SovieT]

Originally posted by Ian [email protected] 14 2003, 08:28 AM
I love that picture Flores :)
ofcourse i sent it to you ;) :lol:

[Frances of Assisi]

sOVIET- The natives were not half as bad as you make them out to be. Not ALL tribes were cannibalistic or sacrificed people. The Aztecs were one of the few who did this. And even so, it was a backwards part of their pagan religion. This does not merit destroying an entire culture. See how the natives embraced christianity(many of them did)?

I just think its unfortunate that they were forced into it, especially the Incas. but many did so voluntarily.

The slavery was widespread until only the last half of the 19th century. It existed probably before civilization existed. You act as though the natives were the only ones with slaves Soviet. :rolleyes:

[Pete]

And even so, it was a backwards part of their pagan religion.

Dogma Dogma Dogma Dogma Dogma Dogma Dogma.

Pagan when used in the Christian context is very often a derogatory word, and I am assuming, since you are emulating the good priest Francis D'Assissi, that you are very very christian. Such a worldview is what led to the destruction of hundreds of diverse cultures and the genocide of millions upon millions of people.

When your people are dying, and only the men in the shiny coats with the sticks that speak fire are staying alive you begin to wonder what they have that you don't. Then you realize that they have different orthoproxy and orthodoxy, so you think that is why. People where very superstitious in those times and held religion to explain things that they could not. So, logically (at the time) they converted. Of course they still died because worshipping a god will not counteract the raging hordes of virus that are coming at you as you interact with the invading population of savages from across the sea....

No they where not forced into them as such, some where don't you deny that...the Inquistion was raging in Spain during the "discovery" period and the Jews, and soon the Muslims, where all expelled, these men had little tolerance for other religoins and destroyed the artificats that they could (such as the city of Techonolitan ... excuse my spelling), but again this was not universal and not all artifacts where ruined. They where forced into the religion by their world view, which, I would not doubt, if the Europeans where falling to rockets and bombs falling from giant birds that they too would look up the religion of the conqueror...

Many natives also tried to absorb the Christian God and the christian 'avatar' (jesus) in to their religoin. The only one that was truly successful, that I know of, where the Hindus... there are shrines to Jesus and Allah in India...

Anyways. I have no direct point, just a lot of comments.

[pastradamus]

It was a great comment that would have flared anger in the whitehouse I'd imagine.Painting Christopher Columbas like a true realist.There are many politicains out there with the same perspective as Chavez but in a world of modern day slavery few have the balls to spit in America's face.


http://www.embavenez-paris.com/ images/chavez.jpg

[Red Flag]

americans dont say fuck columbus cuz they're scared of all the italians that love this guy. I say fuck columbus running... in the Dominican Republic they got a fucking corss built the size of a small city with his ashes in the middle guarded by soldiers and shit, WTF... iguess they dont realize he killed off the native tainos and enslaved their ancestors..

"Christopher Columbus couldn't use a fucking compas, and some how school tried to turn this zero into a hero" - Sun R.A.

[apathy maybe]

I don't know if someone else mention but, he wasn't even the first European to reach the 'New' World.
The Vikeings and the Irish probably both reached it first hundreds of years previous.

[Pepe Cy]

In Cyprus we have a saying “Columbus, I fu*k your curiosity”.

Which means off course that if it wasn’t Columbus to discover America things would have been much better. We wouldn’t have the exploitation of America from Europe, the natives Americans would have let free to make their own development.

Even better, we wouldn’t have such a powerful and aggressive country which is responsible for the inequality and exploitation that exist today.

[Pepe Cy]

Something that I would like to add.

I love and I admire all those comrades who are citizen of the U$A and members on this website.

I consider them to be my brothers, my comrades and the real Americans.

[the SovieT]

Originally posted by Frances of [email protected] 14 2003, 11:08 PM
sOVIET- The natives were not half as bad as you make them out to be. Not ALL tribes were cannibalistic or sacrificed people. The Aztecs were one of the few who did this. And even so, it was a backwards part of their pagan religion. This does not merit destroying an entire culture. See how the natives embraced christianity(many of them did)?

I just think its unfortunate that they were forced into it, especially the Incas. but many did so voluntarily.

The slavery was widespread until only the last half of the 19th century. It existed probably before civilization existed. You act as though the natives were the only ones with slaves Soviet. :rolleyes:
who fucking said they deserved?

you cant simply blame the colonists of violating human rights as a horrible thing when EVERY culture did it..

or you think the aztecs gave a flying fuck about human rights or something like that?