Capitalists argue minimum wage is "job killer;" teens paid more than they create

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

This is from: http://news.yahoo.com/minimum-wage-job-killer-172000791.html

With many states facing record numbers of unemployed teens, economists debate whether to blame the downturn, or minimum-wage hikes

As the economic recovery stalls, teen unemployment is hitting record levels in many states. Nationally, the unemployment rate for Americans age 16 to 19 is more than 24 percent — and more than 40 percent for African Americans. There are many causes for the dire statistics, but conservatives say one is the hike in the minimum wage from $5.15 an hour in 2007 to $7.25 by 2009. Is that really why so many teenagers can't find work?

Of course the minimum wage is hurting teens: Driving the minimum wage ever higher "doesn't end up delivering prosperity," says Ed Morrissey at Hot Air. "It drives up business costs," which inevitably forces some employers to cut some jobs. And when they have to pay people $2 more an hour, they're going to give what work they do have to more experienced applicants rather than inexperienced teenagers.

No. It's the recession, stupid: Obviously, "teens have been hit hard by the recession," says Anne Thompson at OurFuture.org. But the problem isn't the minimum wage, it's just that older workers are now taking jobs that used to go to teens. And as the "youngest, least experienced members of the workforce," teens are "among the last to be rehired in economic recoveries." Since World War II, teen unemployment has typically been 2.5 to 3.5 times the total rate. And "with overall unemployment at a painful 9.1 percent, May’s teen unemployment rate of 24.2 falls within that historic range."

Both sides are right... and wrong: Minimum wage opponents have a point, says Antoine Gara at Bloomberg Businessweek. It's true that, because the minimum wage is higher than the actual value of teens' labor, it keeps "some low-skilled workers out of the market." But as economists note, "the main cause of unemployment today is a lack of demand, not overpriced labor." Dropping the minimum wage might help a bit, but it's hardly a panacea.

More of this crap here:

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/would-killing-the-minimum-wage-help-07012011.html

http://hotair.com/archives/2011/07/01/how-has-that-minimum-wage-hike-worked-for-teens/

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

The reality.

http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/anth484/minpov.jpg

[Kamos]

This is a common argument from capitalists to make us believe the minimum wage should not be raised, and the more enlightened members of our society know that this is total BS.

[Ocean Seal]

I argue that capitalists are a job killer. Capitalists are paid more than they create.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

I'm hearing more and more of this talk lately. It is quite likely a precursor of an upcoming drive against the lowest paid and most desperate sections of the working class as a component of the overall "austerity package" being forced on us.

When the current crisis first broke out there was a lot of rhetoric about "overpaid" public workers and "shared sacrifices." We see what that was leading up to.

[Sensible Socialist]

Just like raising the minimum wage in Haiti thirty cents is a job killer.

It's a load of capitalist bullshit. If corporate executives weren't making hundreds of times as much as the average worker, unemployment would be nearly non-existent.

[Weezer]

So what are these CEO's and Executives with their thumbs up their asses producing exactly?

They're just producing propaganda like this. What an accomplishment.

[Jose Gracchus]

I do love how bourgeois media uncritically accepts Bloomberg Business' take on it, like its natural science, and there's never even the pretense that any group representing labor or youth be consulted.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Yep. As far as they get is a quote from someone at a liberal website twisting in the wind. That's the extent of acceptable (read: bourgeois) discourse.

[Jose Gracchus]

Naturally the only response to the cool, portrayed as "objective" and "scientific" bourgeois viewpoint is one which is openly framed as polemical, political, and partisan. Sober guys in suits, or kooks in the road? Who're you going to trust? Fuck this noise.

[Cleansing Conspiratorial Revolutionary Flame]

A solution to this would be the bourgeois being removed from their current positions and the means of production being placed in the palms of the working class in order to ensure that those whom produce the majority of the goods required are given the proper amount of control over their future and the ability to control the fruits of their labor. Especially as in relation to production the bourgeois remains an aristocratic class that exists in order to exploit the labor from the proletariat without massively producing or laboring as the proletariat is to do in order to benefit the bourgeois. :rolleyes: Obviously, it would be more 'cost effective' if the means of production were to be held democratically in a common fashion and the bourgeois in relation to the means of production are unable to squander wealth that they did not themselves create through labor.

[danyboy27]

Higher minimum wage FAVOR capitalism, those libertarian dont know a damn thing about how the economy work.

making the minimum wage higher mean the worker got more money, more money mean more consumption, more consumption mean more profits.

and, technology being more efficient every year, there is always a way for them to optimize the workplace in order to generate even more profits in less time.

If you remove the minimum wage, you will kill the consumption, less demand, less profit.

There is a reason why the state have labour safety regulation, minimum wage regulation. Beccause without it capitalism couldnt last.

[Rusty Shackleford]

god fucking damnit would i go apeshit if my wage was cut. ive worked 7 days straight this week at part time hours at minimum wage. im not even close to working overtime or even 32+ hrs.

[Pretty Flaco]

Higher minimum wage FAVOR capitalism, those libertarian dont know a damn thing about how the economy work.

making the minimum wage higher mean the worker got more money, more money mean more consumption, more consumption mean more profits.

and, technology being more efficient every year, there is always a way for them to optimize the workplace in order to generate even more profits in less time.

If you remove the minimum wage, you will kill the consumption, less demand, less profit.

There is a reason why the state have labour safety regulation, minimum wage regulation. Beccause without it capitalism couldnt last.

American "Reaganomics" could be making a comeback...

[Obs]

Hey, boss? Maybe I don't give a shit how your business is going, give me my fucking money, you prick.

[KC]

I always like quoting people from the 19th century that argued against minimum wage or child labor with wackos that believe this shit, because it shows how batshit insane they are.

[danyboy27]

American "Reaganomics" could be making a comeback...

and that would probably be bad for buisness and destroy what left of the consumers in america.

EIther the us will become a full blown dictatorship, or some ''common sense'' capitalist will try to save the whole system by pressuring the U.S governement of doing actually something at the last minute.

[Coach Trotsky]

and that would probably be bad for buisness and destroy what left of the consumers in america.

EIther the us will become a full blown dictatorship, or some ''common sense'' capitalist will try to save the whole system by pressuring the U.S governement of doing actually something at the last minute.
I think they will try to get one half of the population to kill the other half.
And that the ruling class will dominate both/all of the opposing parties in the American conflict.
You can already see the basic delineation of the the antagonistic parties:
On the one hand, you'll have the Tea Party Christian Taliban fascist coalition.
On the other hand, you have the Democratic Party coalition (although this might splinter).
It will look like a religious and "racial" civil war, and that is how the combatants and the masses will tend to see it.
NONE of the leading parties in this conflict will be anticapitalist.
MOST of the current "Left" will fool themselves into thinking that the Democrat coalition is the "progressive side".
Whatever side 'wins' the conflict, it will be an enormously bloody and downright genocidal affair, and ALL the workers and oppressed will be the losers ultimately.
This will happen if the revolutionary socialists don't get their heads out of their asses, break with the bourgeois liberals, get bold and begin independently and dynamically intervene among and organize workers, oppressed and youth. Only massive militant class struggle, the conquest of power by the proletariat, the overthrow of capitalism in the US and the intense active solidarity of promoting and supporting revolution worldwide can stop the course toward a terrible future we are upon right now.

[Sensible Socialist]

I always like quoting people from the 19th century that argued against minimum wage or child labor with wackos that believe this shit, because it shows how batshit insane they are.
Do you know of any quotes off-hand? I'd love to use some anti-child labor law quotes against my capitalist friends. :lol:

[RebelDog]

As John Pilger says, if you want to get to the truth of a matter then take what powerful people say and invert it. If the already pathetic mimimum wage were raised it would have the effect of creating extra demand and thus create jobs, because poor people are already underconsuming. Lowering the minimum wage would only put more money in to the pockets of the business class. Its all just hot air about helping unemployed teens. Its bullshit coming from the mouths of people who don't give the slightest toss about the unemployed, or indeed employed, or what age they are. Its just gimme, gimme, gimme, we want every fucking penny and we will never stop until we get it and we don't give a fuck that we are destroying the lives of the next generation and creating huge problems for wider society. Here is a better policy to help unemployed teens in the US. Go to workplaces and occupy them and demand jobs. Demand the right to a decent life free of poverty, fear and violence.

[Coggeh]

This is from: http://news.yahoo.com/minimum-wage-job-killer-172000791.html



Both sides are right... and wrong: Minimum wage opponents have a point, says Antoine Gara at Bloomberg Businessweek. It's true that, because the minimum wage is higher than the actual value of teens' labor, it keeps "some low-skilled workers out of the market." But as economists note, "the main cause of unemployment today is a lack of demand, not overpriced labor." Dropping the minimum wage might help a bit, but it's hardly a panacea.


This is BS!. Not all jobs are wealth producing jobs. A nurse doesn't produce wealth. Most teens are working basic non-skilled jobs, watering, retail, etc etc, they don't produce wealth yet there labour is vital. The argument that they don't produce enough wealth for there costs is redundant because in reality they don't produce any.

Also by not raising it, it results in a pay cut in reality, with inflation steadily on the rise and the price of goods and services going up their minimum wage buys less, therefore it is a pay-cut not to even raise it.



As John Pilger says, if you want to get to the truth of a matter then take what powerful people say and invert it. If the already pathetic mimimum wage were raised it would have the effect of creating extra demand and thus create jobs, because poor people are already underconsuming. Lowering the minimum wage would only put more money in to the pockets of the business class.
In essence I agree with you, but we can't fall into the trap of using Keynesian arguments about more money for poor = better capitalism. Fact is capitalism is in crisis, capitalists are doing what they always have done, in order to maintain profits they are cutting from the economy to actually raise wages in one sector but not another would be damning for the capitalists because although yes workers may have more money that doesn't mean the capitalist is going to bring in that money.

Fact is capitalists compete with each other same way labour under capitalism will compete with each other by offering the same work for lower wages. Unless there was a government decision to bring in higher wages, higher minimum wages etc no such decision will ever be made. But what if production costs because of wages become to high and we have a flight of capital? They move out and just sell the products in the country where workers do have high wages thus creating more unemployment etc etc. While agreeing with your sentiment we cannot avoid the argument about its faults and we have to maintain the point that there is no solution based on market capitalism or the fallacy of Keynesian economics. We need to end the strike in capital and if the capitalists won't invest in jobs etc etc we'll take theirs capital off them and do it ourselves.

[Olentzero]

Lowering the minimum wage would only put more money in to the pockets of the business class.And here we get to the heart of the matter! The economic crisis means that the traditional sources of profit are drying up, so the bosses have to find some way of keeping more of the money they are getting. Income's down, so costs have to be cut. Thus, the attack on the minimum wage.

And the whole "teens are paid more than they create" argument is easily destroyed by looking at one of the most common jobs teens work - fast food. The minimum wage - what is it now, $7 an hour over there? - is enough to buy one, maybe two value meals at McDonald's. And yet the grease-slingers back there can prepare the components of six to twelve of those same value meals in approximately 3 minutes. So in those 3 minutes they create between $42 and $84 worth of food, but their labor cost is approximately $0.33 (assuming 3 teens: one on burgers, one on fries, and one on the cash register).

33 cents. The value of the food they prepared is at least 100 times the cost of their labor. Even if everything they cook doesn't ultimately get sold, it's pretty clear to everyone not blinded by greed that they do, in fact, create more value than they are paid.

[smashcapital]

Well it sounds like we should all live with 30 people per house and agree to work for .25 cents an hour. Then we could be competetive with India and China.

One things for certain, they just better not go after that CEO's multi-million dollar salary and multi-millions dollar bonuses.
After all, they work sooo hard for that money????

These people are ridiculous! Funny, I seemed to hear about how all these giant corporations are making record profits year after year. And all they can do is try to attack the lowest paid workers for making too much?

Ugh!!! Eat the rich! :mad:

[Obs]

Ugh!!! Eat the rich! :mad:

That rhetoric is disgusting.

There's plenty of food to go around.