Getting active in a non trendy activist way

[ReVoLuTiOnArYbUtGaNgStEr]

Recently I attended a rally and other political Demos with a comrade of mine, I noticed these types of things attract people who are going around claiming communism, or more trendy today, claiming Anarchism, alot of these same people had iphones paid for by their parents, travelled round the country on the old mans money and basically have no real class analysis and would infact lose their privellage of being able to travel round indefinately and get hammered everynight and act as though drunken singing is the key to smash the bourgeioisie.

The other big crowd these things attract are non violence peace activists, needless to say I would find less of a headache by walking into a moving truck. So how can I get active, in community stuff without dealing with the activist scene?

I was thinking of maybe trying to get a place advertised and endorsed by the council and run a club for youth, with things like boxing, football etc, giving kids something to do, stopping them from terrorising the old people and everyone else on the street at night and allowing the local parents to know their kids are safe and not have to pay for a sitter or put them in daycare etc.

I always felt that these political groups and activists go about things wrong, they highlight the big issues and are too full on and intesnse too soon, they do not have any sort of attachment to the workers in any area and do not act as a positive movement in the average working persons life. In my view it is far better to start small, not even too political, working class club is as far as I would push the rhetoric, but these groups and services act as a kind of rallying cry, when the people get a bunch of people actively helping them, not looking for their vote or for their cash, they start to apreciate it and even become willing to defend it.

If we are to become a force in society, we cannot be reduced to theoretical masturbation but must take part in all the little issues in our community, wether its working class youth groups, community streetwatch to stop people terrifying old people and making them scared to leave the house, to free daycare, taxi service and everything inbetween.

We are at present forced to rely on capitalist institutions, building our ouwn, independent working class ones is key to building a movement, banners and flags and jingoistic chants are pretty irrelevant to a single mum working at mcdonalds, is she likely to join a worers movement after hearing "blood for oil NO NO NO!" or after a workers movement helps her out with free daycare, makes sure junkies arent leaving needles in her stairwell for her kids to have to walk through and generally showing solidarity in action through all the shit workers face every day.

I am looking at setting something small up in my local area, the plan is to have some comrades start a community fund, we will do some fundraising aswell and then we can start, very low scale at first and hopefully start to make a strong community and unite them on key issues facing our community, provide good free/ultra cheap services with none of the people running them profiting in anyway. All the funds would go back into cooperative cycle for other programs, services.

Got to go work now, let me know what you think.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Perhaps look into starting a cooperative or something? I think that this might be the best place to start. As much as anything else an economic cooperative gives a basis for workers to interface with each other as workers as well as experiment with worker management, even if a market cooperative is still fundamentally a Capitalist organization. It's still exploitation, but in theory everyone is equally exploited as all the workers are owners of the "means of production" and thus have a say in how surplus value is raised and utilized.

I see nothing wrong with the idea of a youth group either. It has similar benefits, but doesn't have the disadvantage of still being a profit-based organization like a cooperative. On the other hand, the profit-based nature of the cooperative means it is self-sustaining, whereas any group like that would need help from volunteers or donators.

Don't give up altogether on protests though. They are often full of trendster kids who just want an :blackA: or a :che: on their t-shirt, but these trendster kids are not bad people, just insufficiently educated on what revolution really means. It is better to educate them now than wait for them to become counter-revolutionary rich yuppies in their 30s or 40s. If you start something like the thing you're suggesting, invite the trendsters to volunteer or work, they might end up learning a thing or two. They're obviously open to the idea of socialism so it would be a mistake to write them off. I agree that they are often alienated from the workers, but I think part of that has to do with the material realities of our society. Society in America is good at building invisible walls between communities and building ideological superstructures to help people rationalize.

[tracher999]

wtf terrorising old people its the old people that terrorise the youth with always complain about a foodbals to many nois ant other bulshit like stop with it i can t hear my tv i hate it stop spreat that bulshit the youth do not terrorising old people

:laugh:

[ReVoLuTiOnArYbUtGaNgStEr]

what do you call smahsing old folks fencing, drinking at the front of their houses till the early hours, smoking weed and acting like parasites while the rest of us work hard and act like normal people? I sure wish people would stop comparing every teenage youth to a lynched black man circa 1822.

[RED DAVE]

My experience with this kind of work is that if it is not tied, explicitly and concretely, to a larger movement, you will end up (a) doing social work and (b) burning out.

There was a tremendous amount of this kind of grassroots work done in Sixties by liberal, radicals, active revolutionaries. The results were the same: nil for the movement. Some individuals benefited; activists, until they crashed from exhaustion, felt good about themselves. But this was/is not revolutionary activity.

Community action type work is very iffy. The most successful such work I was involved in, the rent strike movement of the early and mid-60s, was explicitly connected to the civil rights movement and the left-wing of the labor movement, even some vestiges of the old Left in a few communities.

The work was exciting, often fun, occasionally dangerous and a good education for the participants, who were already politicized. But we did not particularly recruit to our movement, and we certainly did not recruit to any revolutionary organizations.

RED DAVE

[nuisance]

sounds like you want to be a social worker more than a radical. perhaps you should get to know some these trendies rather than merely encountering them at demos. you might even find out that they've got various projects and interests that may coincide with your own, or some might have the same qualms as you and be interested in this community stuff.

[ReVoLuTiOnArYbUtGaNgStEr]

Its not social work, it is building class solidarity, workers institutions and an attempt to stop the deteriation of urban communities and combat the criminal/antisocial behaviour on the streets of working class areas. I really see building up a strong community and institutions for the people ran by the people as the only way to get workers to lead ourselves and to raise consciousness enough so that when the police try and shut down these institutions, the people will be there to defend them.

I do not think the things you brought up in regards to activists trying to do social programs is comparable as this will be workers running and initiating these things in their own communisty, not some liberal middle class self hating white student who wants to help us oh so ignorant people.

[Ocean Seal]

Recently I attended a rally and other political Demos with a comrade of mine, I noticed these types of things attract people who are going around claiming communism, or more trendy today, claiming Anarchism, alot of these same people had iphones paid for by their parents, travelled round the country on the old mans money and basically have no real class analysis and would infact lose their privellage of being able to travel round indefinately and get hammered everynight and act as though drunken singing is the key to smash the bourgeioisie.

You shouldn't judge. Just because someone has an iphone doesn't mean that they're super-bougie or something, some people have nice phones and belong to the working class and working poor. In fact an iphone can sell for $50 with a plan, it could have been a birthday gift or something. Don't call people trendy till you get to know them. How do you know that they travel around the country and get hammered every night?

Also, why would we lose the privilege to travel under socialism. Are we supposed to work year round without vacation time? Because in that case social-democracy sounds like a better option. We are socialists because we want to expand that privilege to more and more people. Better working conditions is what we stand for, not to be locked up inside a factory. I'd like to have more vacation time, and every working class person I know probably would agree with me.

[Sensible Socialist]

I see where you're coming from, but you can't generalize or judge a group of people without knowing their exact circumstances. I know a few people, pretty well-off, who have gotten into revolutionary politics. Are they supposed to sell off all their possessions? Get to know the specific people you're talking about at the demos. They might turn out to be complete arrogant Che-shirt waiving dicks, or they could be decent people.

[ReVoLuTiOnArYbUtGaNgStEr]

You shouldn't judge. Just because someone has an iphone doesn't mean that they're super-bougie or something, some people have nice phones and belong to the working class and working poor. In fact an iphone can sell for $50 with a plan, it could have been a birthday gift or something. Don't call people trendy till you get to know them. How do you know that they travel around the country and get hammered every night?

Also, why would we lose the privilege to travel under socialism. Are we supposed to work year round without vacation time? Because in that case social-democracy sounds like a better option. We are socialists because we want to expand that privilege to more and more people. Better working conditions is what we stand for, not to be locked up inside a factory. I'd like to have more vacation time, and every working class person I know probably would agree with me.

well the fact he had a brand new iphone on unlimited minutes paid for as he told me by his mum was a hint. And there were countless spoilt brats who just go around on their parents money acting all superior, one of them said "people in the underdeveloped nations are starving but no one cares, the world is a selfish place", he was a fucking richboy who had everything given to him and could go anywhere on his parents money and then acted all superior for being a vegan trendy wanker.

Infact in the core activist group there who converged, about 4 were workers, and one was a student who i know is from a working class background, the rest were just spoilt kids trying to be all out there and deep with their Anarchy shirts and organic bag of nuts.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

I'd rather have the kids of "richboys" at rallies than in business school. They didn't chose to be born into wealth any more than the working class chose to be born into poverty.

I see where you're coming from in terms of their alienation from the actual conditions of workers, but you really shouldn't resent them for it. If people do, they run the risk of falling into that ultra-maoist trap of purging any revolutionary insufficiently proletarian. Try to educate them on how their parent's bourgeois conditions make their own lives possible, but also be willing to learn from them too. I don't like the modern consumerist lifestyle, but I try to be sympathetic towards those who fall into it (from all classes) because the society is based around it and raises people from an early age to live within it.

[Ocean Seal]

well the fact he had a brand new iphone on unlimited minutes paid for as he told me by his mum was a hint. And there were countless spoilt brats who just go around on their parents money acting all superior, one of them said "people in the underdeveloped nations are starving but no one cares, the world is a selfish place", he was a fucking richboy who had everything given to him and could go anywhere on his parents money and then acted all superior for being a vegan trendy wanker.

Infact in the core activist group there who converged, about 4 were workers, and one was a student who i know is from a working class background, the rest were just spoilt kids trying to be all out there and deep with their Anarchy shirts and organic bag of nuts.
If you'd like, the PSL tends to have most of our people coming from working class backgrounds, and I've never heard anyone act superior whether or not they were students or anything. Some people have some talents but everyone just try to do their work without being arrogant to anyone else. I'm not sure if you'd like to check us out if you're an anarchist though as the PSL is a Leninist organization. But just try to ignore trendyness, and if someone from a middle class background wants to help out and isn't doing it for the trendy factor let them in and don't make them feel uncomfortable being they aren't poor.

[o well this is ok I guess]

It seems you talked to this guy and heard enough to pass judgement on him.
So did you confront him for how you perceived him?

[nuisance]

Its not social work, it is building class solidarity, workers institutions and an attempt to stop the deteriation of urban communities and combat the criminal/antisocial behaviour on the streets of working class areas.
You spoke building a community centre/space to cure social ills, not to mention with the aid of a council grant. Sorry, but that is social work. There is no revolutionary potenial in doing this and it can exist within the capitalist system and is infact basically an example of the Big Society idea of the Conservatives in the UK.
This is not to say that such initatives aren't useful or cannot aid a revolutionary project, but it is not revolutionary on its own.


I really see building up a strong community and institutions for the people ran by the people as the only way to get workers to lead ourselves and to raise consciousness enough so that when the police try and shut down these institutions, the people will be there to defend them.
what interest would the police have in shutting down a council funded initative aiming at reducing social problems in a troubled community? i am not saying that a sense of community isn't productive, but more of how you would intend to go from defense or offense. why would these initatives not sit comfortably in capitalist society?


I do not think the things you brought up in regards to activists trying to do social programs is comparable as this will be workers running and initiating these things in their own communisty, not some liberal middle class self hating white student who wants to help us oh so ignorant people.
are activists not workers? tbh it sounds like you have actually had very little interaction with these 'trendie activists' to be making such sweeping generalisations.

[ReVoLuTiOnArYbUtGaNgStEr]

Sorry if I was not clear, I m not hoping for a government grant, whatever that is, but rather to get Amatuer boxing club status and be fully recognised by the council as a legit club, this would make getting people involved so much easier as using the local rec as a place for fundraising meeting picking up etc would be possible.

The point is once we get more established in our community then we can go onto bigger things, like unionising, unemployed organising, homeless housing issues etc, the point is to start small, all these talks of revolution is good but not based in reality atm and the only way to get your local council estate organised is to start on the small issues. Also yes I have been exposed to these type of people and no they do not deserve any time, they are ridiculous and have no possible gain from revolution.

I am not talking about people born into a rich family etc as all being incapable or being revolutionary, what im talking about is people who choose not to work, are given all they want and travel about on parents money and spout lifestylist nonsensical bullshit about being anarchists and communists depsite the fact they dont work and still have anything they want, if I was with them on my estate people would not only not listen they would be grabbing pitchforks :D

[nuisance]

The point is once we get more established in our community then we can go onto bigger things, like unionising, unemployed organising, homeless housing issues etc, the point is to start small,
Why not start with these initatives right away, obviously according to logistics. Would not a squatted social centre be better for these aims, not to mention far easier to establish.


all these talks of revolution is good but not based in reality atm and the only way to get your local council estate organised is to start on the small issues.
No ones talk about having a revolution right now, but more that actions or rather projects, need to be orientated towards revolution, meaning that social revolution is our constant point of reference. Indeed small issues are important and are largely the one people shall rally around, it is generally small issues that ignite insurrection, not grandoise ideas and theoritical ponderings.


if I was with them on my estate people would not only not listen they would be grabbing pitchforks :D
are you a peasant or something? :p

[ReVoLuTiOnArYbUtGaNgStEr]

I thought about squatting a place, but it would be evicted sooner or later, this would not attract many working class mothers and fathers to send their kids, squatting is the worst lifestylist expression of them all, it allows no longterm progress and is only possible to defend a squatt and take control of it permanently if you had an entire council estate of people to defend it, atm we dont have any support for this.

[Ballyfornia]

You could draw a dirty, big Anarchist sign on the walls of your local council.

[nuisance]

I thought about squatting a place, but it would be evicted sooner or later, this would not attract many working class mothers and fathers to send their kids, squatting is the worst lifestylist expression of them all, it allows no longterm progress and is only possible to defend a squatt and take control of it permanently if you had an entire council estate of people to defend it, atm we dont have any support for this.
I know what you mean but they do occasionally get to last awhile, particulary in London, Brighton and Bristol (your in the UK, right?), though you could be right with the new tory rage against squatting. also, in my experience, those trendy kids, generally enviromental ones, are pretty good at helping secure squats. i wouldn't say squats put off people if the right outreach is done. ive been involved with one that was also booked by locals and even had a well used creche service. it also can serve as an autonomous zone that people can and will fight for, aswell as a hotbed for radical ideas- just look at the tesco riot in bristol that revolved around the eviction of a squat there, not to mention because of the riot another squat on the road which was due to be evicted was rescued becasue the cops and council didn';t want a repeat the occurances.

[Principia Ethica]

To the OP. . .I see where you are coming from. . .I really do and sometimes I take on that attitude a little bit. But then I have to sit down and check myself. So keep in mind that at times, I'm guilty of this type of thinking myself.

But if you are talking about students or those still hanging off of mom and dad's apron strings. . .I don't think it is fair to judge them. . . yet. My parents did/do okay. I do okay. But my outward appearance might get you to lump me in with the "trendies." It's part of my work to spin this illusion that I'm very well off. I tend to have to look the part. (I don't go around wearing Louboutins everywhere I go, but you might catch me sometime and while I think that it is RIDONKULOUS to spend $1000 on a pair of shoes, my "fans" buy into the illusion and gift me some of these ridiculous accouterments that I would have NEVER bought for myself.)

I believe in socialism. I have no issue taking a pay cut. . .even a huge one to help those in my industry doing less well than me for things out of their control. I believe in helping out who I can, where I can. (Yes, I do self guided social work ;) ) I believe that there are people that work waaaaaaaaay harder and longer than I do that don't get paid what they should. . .or at least have a standard of living that they should. I believe that the system we have now is broken and the sooner it falls and gets replaced with something else, the better.

Would you write me out of the movement because my parents weren't dirt poor or because I don't do manual labor all day long or because of the phone I have or what clothes I'm wearing? Does it matter where we come from as long as we believe and fight for the cause?

[blake 3:17]

Why not start with these initatives right away, obviously according to logistics. Would not a squatted social centre be better for these aims, not to mention far easier to establish.

In some places squatting makes sense beyond either survival or protest. More organic forms of reclaiming abandoned land might make more sense.

[Os Cangaceiros]

well, I've got bad news for you: if you want to become active in "the scene" in the USA, then there's a large chance that you're gonna have to deal with at least some trendy wankers. A lot of leftie activism is extremely clique-ish. It also seems to attract a lot of 1) weirdos, and 2) power-hungry narcissists who want to dominate their only little social scene, no matter how small or irrelevant that scene is. These are my observations...you can draw your own conclusions.