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View Full Version : Face Value: Why do some blindly support countries who are 'socialist' or 'communist'?



00000000000
6th July 2011, 10:59
I have come across a couple of articles on here before that seem to offer some level of support to the DPRK. This is usually in response to some provocative language from the USA or any other comment made by a Western reactionary state / group. Irrespective of how aggressive and pig-ignorant the US has often been towards any nation state that makes the slightest nod to the Left, this open support of the DPRK regime seems either incredibly naive or purposefully mis-informed.
I have seen footage of DPRK dissidents being publicly executed. They were tied to a stake and killed by firing squad in front of a whole village while the Party Official read out the charges. These charges amounted to nothing more than trying to leave the country. They were killed in cold blood, in public, for emmigrating.
Is this a worker's state run for the benefit of all? Is this really what Marx was getting at?
Just because a country is officially known as a 'People's Democratic Republic', that doesn't mean it is democratic or run for the benefit of the people or even that is a true republic. It's no more genuine a title than when the Ministry of War was re-named the Ministry of Defence; nothing 'defensive' about Iraq or Afghanistan.
It seems that many on the Left will automatically throw all their weight behind a country like the DPRK simply because it doesn't fit the typical Western capitalist model and it flys in the face of US glabal dominance. While I love the idea of any country being run on it's own terms without the multi-nationals or old-school Western imperialism having a foot-hold, that does not automatically make it a country that deserves un-reserved support or adulation.
I know there are some that would make the arguement that the US has corporal punishment, state-influenced media and executive power weilded by an elite just as much as in DPRK or any other 'communist' country, so what makes the reactionary power better than the communist one? Well, the main benefit of the US model, when compared the DPRK, is their is at least some form of democracy that could, given the right circumstances, produce a representative executive body. There are at least elections, no matter how fruitless they sometimes seem. There is no dynastic system of producing a new Head of State and the Cult of Personality is not quite as dogmatic and absurd.
All I'm saying is, whatever might be wrong with the Western captialist system, I would much rather suffer that than what is suffered by anyone who dares to have an opinion in the DPRK. I'd prefer food from a multi-national than none at all (not too many famines in the UK or US). Just because it goes against the US model doesn't automatically make it right and just because it calls itself a People's Republic, it doesn't excuse the hereditary head of state holding all the power and crushing all dissent in the People's name.

(Disclaimer: I am not a firm supporter of the USA or a citizen of that country. I am not a Conservative or Labour or BNP voter / member. I have not been 'duped' by clever Western propoganda to toe the capitalist party line. I am a free-thinking indiviudal who has always supported Left-wing ideas and politics of my own free will)

Tim Cornelis
8th July 2011, 21:30
I can understand when people argue against NATO involvement in Libya as the motivations for the invasion/war are largely based on media fabrications (e.g. massacre in Misrata which did not actually take place). But defending North Korea indeed seems idiotic.

If a Korean War breaks out (continues) it's likely conscription will be temporarily reinstated in many NATO-members, I personally would not object to being summoned to fight against North Korea.

Killermunch
19th July 2011, 08:40
I don't understand how people can think that places like N.Korea and China are communist, it's disgusting how people can sheepishly follow labels and news stories without making an educated decision for themselves. Anyone with the basic knowledge of how communism, socialism, and marxisim work they can see that you cannot have a tolitarian/dictatorial communist state; they just can't exist in the same government because they are on the opposite ends of the political spectrum. Dictatorships are facsist, and fascism is an extreme capitalistic state, so therefore "tolitarian" communism just cannot exist. It's like trying to get anything with a mass to travel at or faster than the speed of light it just can't happen, and that's why the C.C.C.P. failed so miserably. Hell even monarchisim is fascist because of the way the monarchy capitalizes on it's people and hordes the wealth it amasses from them.

grok
27th July 2011, 18:13
This article poses the correct question. The thing is, people are fallible animals; and so if you understand your dialectical-materialism, you understand that just because some people start out with a good idea, doesn't mean they end up in a good place. Quite the contrary all too often, tragically. And so it is indeed VERY un-marxist to give uncritical support to any regime, simply because it calls itself "socialist" or even a "people's republic": because historical developments have shown us simply and directly that even the best of collective goals can be subverted in their entirety by objective material and also subjective political circumstances. The DPRK, with its "Juche" brand of distorted stalinism, is indeed an abomination on the Earth; and no real socialist anywhere should be in any way supporting it.

However, it is even MORE wrong to help the imperialists subvert the DPRK -- as one "komrad" here above has just expressed the intent: because, objectively-speaking, this would aid imperialism -- and not the poor, oppressed masses of the DPRK.

Such is the confused, dangerous state of the 'Left', everywhere.

SamFluffy
3rd August 2011, 12:11
I honestly don't know why anyone would support North Koreas system unless they were in power in that country, life is pretty shitty for anyone in North Korea that isnt in the ruling party. Persoanlly if my country started war with North Korea I would not want to fight against North Korea coz being an anarchist I am against imprerialism.

Fopeos
3rd August 2011, 14:12
Anyone who believes that the DPRK is a communist country doesn't really understand communism. I don't see how anyone can defend it's policies. That being said, I would not support another nation's attempts to alter N.Korea's policies through military intervention or economic sanctions. It's entirely up to the workers of Korea to choose their government. It's their fight. Any external intervention by NATO, the UN, or China will only serve to strengthen imperialism and unleash more suffering onto an already desperate population.

Engel
21st August 2011, 19:37
It pains me to see the DPRK called a communist country. Just because they claim to be communist does not make it so. At this point Kim Jong Ill is merely a cult of personality and a tyrant. As a communist I believe it is our job to oppose tyranny where ever it rears its ugly head.