Thoughts on public school systems

[Leftsolidarity]

This is not really a question of "How do you think the school system is right now?" but a question of whether or not you agree with a public school system and if it should be required or not.

btw, idk if this should be in learning or not

[Blackburn]

Is this a USA centric question?

[Pretty Flaco]

It needs more funding! That's what I think!
And American public schools need to be on par academically with private schools... We're not gonna do that with 40 kids to a class and teachers out jobless on the street.

EDIT
fuck i answered how you didn't want us to, shit

[RedSonRising]

Adequate, well-rounded, and accessible education should be an unrestricted entitlement for everyone. It should certainly be a right. Making it mandatory does have some value, but it should be up to the respective community to choose whether it is enforced as a mandate, depending on their needs. Many places and occupations in certain communities' cultures don't require an extensive amount of education.

[Dunk]

I think a more pertinent discussion is whether education is really on the agenda of our schools, and what are our best resources available to us to educate ourselves and our children?

EDIT: And: How to ensure sustainable work for all of our teachers?

[Sensible Socialist]

To answer the very narrow question: should we require the public schooling system we have now? The answer is no. Right now (speaking specifically of the United States) the education system is nothing more than twelve years of forced compliance. From four or five years of age, you are made to memorize facts and figures. No one tells you why, but you must do this. Teachers are only allowed to teach the material in a strict manner. If you don't learn in conventional ways, too bad for you. As young as seven or eight children are subjected to standardized tests. They give students the idea that those who perform well on a specific set of facts are smart, and anyone else is dumb. This is reinforced by different classes based on grades, or "intelligence."

The curriculum in middle and high school (age twelve or so and up) is remarkably poor. Students are never told why they are learning material (the old answer of "because you need it in life" is thrown around, with no explanation). This creates feelings of disdain to learning in general, because students associate it with the education system. What the public education system is creating in a generation of kids (who will grow to be adults) that are completely warped. They only know how to accept facts (a trait the government loves) and how to work in specific ways without asking questions (a trait corporations love). Most people have little in the way of critical thinking or knowledge of the outside world. It's worksheets and tests for most of the population.

That said, there is nothing more spectacular than an adequate and diverse public education system. Where else could someone go to access dozens of knowledgable adults on a variety of subjects? If the money used for war and corporate bailouts was given to schools, the worthless classes taught in the same fashion could be turned into lively and interesting places for students to expand their horizons.

Then, the question would become: should students have to attend a public education system that fulfills the desires of students and teachers? My answer isn't so clear. I believe people learn best when they want to learn. Placing a student in a room with a teacher will not work if the student is not interested. I, and the rest of my bored generation, can attest to this. Yet I also believe that no person can stay uninterested. Presented with a wealth of courses and opportunities, people (even young children) will want to take part in the educational atmosphere.

I don't think it's so cut and dry as some make it. Whether there should be forced compliance to the educational system is debatable. But I believe the focus should be on changing the dominant thinking of the teacher as the all-knowing holder of information and the student as the supplicant waiting to be imbued with life's answers. Rather, education should be a journey undertaken by many people, each adding something to the journey of others.

For now, our mission must be two-pronged. First, we must fight against all cuts to education, especially secondary education. We cannot let the corporate agenda continue to turn education into a for-profit industry. Secondly, we must fight for more resources to education, and we must insist that the needs and desires of all students be accommodated.

[RichardAWilson]

Well, Karl Marx opposed state administrated schools. However, he did believe schools and an education should be available to everyone (I.e. Implying state financing).

I believe a reasonable approach would be establishing Tripartite Councils to manage individual schools (I.e. Representing Teachers, Administrators and Parents).

[RichardAWilson]

Another issue is that teachers are often uninterested. Most men and women that would make wonderful teachers are going into other fields where the pay is much higher. I hated a number of high school teachers that were boring and didn't care. College Professors, however, are much more interactive.

Teacher compensation will need to be reevaluated to attract the brightest and hardest working. With that said, some form of performance-based compensation will also need to be introduced to ensure those that aren't good teachers aren't overpaid.

There has been too much focus on small class sizes. However, what good is a smaller class if the teacher isn't teaching in field? I know this from experience. I had a high-school Spanish teacher that was a former music teacher and she couldn't even speak Spanish. She made for a lazy and boring teacher and I learned nothing in her class.

To Summarize My View:

1. Increase Starting Teacher Salaries to match those of Starting Professor Salaries.
2. Introduce Performance-Based Compensation Standards.
3. Allow teachers more freedom in formulating classroom curriculum.
4. Introduce Tripartite Councils to administrate the schools.
5. Hire Certified Psychologists for School Guidance Counselors. (In our schools, those positions have become bureaucratic cushy positions for those with privilege and tenure in their districts).
6. More funding for school libraries and encouraging teachers to assign reports that require research and critical thinking. There is too much focus on "teaching the textbook."

There are a handful of ideas. Education Reform is a serious matter and there are hundreds of ways we could improve our schools and offer a qualitative education as well as a quantitative one.

[Sensible Socialist]

Teacher compensation will need to be reevaluated to attract the brightest and hardest working. With that said, some form of performance-based compensation will also need to be introduced to ensure those that aren't good teachers aren't overpaid.
I think something we need to be carefull of is the performance-based compensation rhetoric. It's often used by the right-wing to justify paying teacher's based on their students' test scores, which in no way correlate to the effectiveness of a teacher.

[Leftsolidarity]

Alright there have been some good responses but I was viewing it more in a way of saying we had a revolution and destroyed the capitalist state. Now whether you are a statist or anarchist do you think that there should be an effort to build some sort of public education system?

[RichardAWilson]

Yeah, well, it's all in who manages it. Yes, you're right that the right-winged want to use it to reduce educational spending and undermine our public educational system. However, it is a good idea in the sense that it can be used to improve the schools when it's managed for the right reasons (I.e. the general wellbeing of Society).

[Rafiq]

One sideness absolutism should be done away with. We are taught there is one philosophy, one side of the argument, one history, and one teaching. You cannot expect anything. We live in Bourgeois society, and children will be indocrinated accordingly.

[Sensible Socialist]

Alright there have been some good responses but I was viewing it more in a way of saying we had a revolution and destroyed the capitalist state. Now whether you are a statist or anarchist do you think that there should be an effort to build some sort of public education system?
Of course. A public education system is one of the most valuable tools in allowing people to become active and engaged citizens of the world.

[RichardAWilson]

Another idea I like is year around schooling. Conservatives are wanting to shortern the school year even more to save money. That's a big problem. I also think that we need to get young people more involved in their schools (I.e. School Clubs, Teams, etc.) and Student-Governments should have more influence over their schools.

[Sensible Socialist]

Another idea I like is year around schooling. Conservatives are wanting to shortern the school year even more to save money. That's a big problem. I also think that we need to get young people more involved in their schools (I.e. School Clubs, Teams, etc.) and Student-Governments should have more influence over their schools.
There is obviously a problem when students need three months off to recover from the beating they took the previous year. Likewise, there is obviously a problem when very few students actually want to wake up in the morning and go to school.

I'm for year-round education, through a format of lectures, seminars, hands-on learning, and community-based involvement that does not follow a rigid timeframe. Away with the bells in the hallways. They create drones that only know how to punch in and punch out when the boss tells them to. People should want to learn, to experience, every hour of every day. They should wake up not dreading learning, but excited to discover something new.

[RichardAWilson]

That's a bull's eye!

[Leftsolidarity]

Another idea I like is year around schooling. Conservatives are wanting to shortern the school year even more to save money. That's a big problem. I also think that we need to get young people more involved in their schools (I.e. School Clubs, Teams, etc.) and Student-Governments should have more influence over their schools.

Fuck that, I try to ditch school as much as possible as it is. Just because conservatives want to do something doesn't mean we should jump to the extreme opposite.

[Sensible Socialist]

Fuck that, I try to ditch school as much as possible as it is. Just because conservatives want to do something doesn't mean we should jump to the extreme opposite.
I'm going to assume that the previous poster is advocating for year-long schooling with increased student and teacher resources.

[Leftsolidarity]

I'm going to assume that the previous poster is advocating for year-long schooling with increased student and teacher resources.

Even so I do not support it. I, for a long time have not even agreed with the concept of a school system yet I am coming around to the idea. I do not really believe in reforming this school system (definitely not within a capitalist society) but I think it might be okay in a communal low-key way.

I like my summers free to do things. I actually learn and read far more during the summer because I do not have to put my books and projects aside for school bullshit.

[Sensible Socialist]

Even so I do not support it. I, for a long time have not even agreed with the concept of a school system yet I am coming around to the idea. I do not really believe in reforming this school system (definitely not within a capitalist society) but I think it might be okay in a communal low-key way.

I like my summers free to do things. I actually learn and read far more during the summer because I do not have to put my books and projects aside for school bullshit.
Again, year-round schooling in the sense of indepedent, unique, and open learning. Not a teacher telling you the "facts." The goal of year-round education is providing opportunities and resources for students to learn throughout the year. There would certainly be times when you can take a break and just chill. I think we all need that. But the opportunity is there all year, whereas in the current system, students (especially lower-income students) are completely on their own.

[Hebrew Hammer]

It fucking sucks but school lockdowns because of gang related violance was awesome, lol.

[Leftsolidarity]

It fucking sucks but school lockdowns because of gang related violance was awesome, lol.

Haha that gets interesting. A few years back my highschool rioted (I feel rather proud about it also) and they brought in dozens of police that swarmed the halls.

The students were pissed over the measures put in place by the superintendent and were like fuck this shit lets have some :reda:!!! Then the administration and security were like :eek:. Then police back up came but kids were still like :tt2:. Then they started arresting kids and everyone was like :thumbdown:. Then it was on the news and other people were like :ohmy:.

Haha I made a story with smiley faces. Fucking awesome.

[infearoffear]

Haha that gets interesting. A few years back my highschool rioted (I feel rather proud about it also) and they brought in dozens of police that swarmed the halls.

The students were pissed over the measures put in place by the superintendent and were like fuck this shit lets have some :reda:!!! Then the administration and security were like :eek:. Then police back up came but kids were still like :tt2:. Then they started arresting kids and everyone was like :thumbdown:. Then it was on the news and other people were like :ohmy:.

Haha I made a story with smiley faces. Fucking awesome.

LOL thats insane, Ive never heard of any schools around here rioting:thumbup1:

I remember being a little kid in elementary school and absolutely hating it, it's funny I always remember thinking that if only all the other kids would just band together to overthrow the hugely outnumbered teachers, then we could be free and we wouldn't have to do any more work. I guess even as a child I was a revolutionary :D

[infearoffear]

Anyways the public school system, at least the one we currently have, is a joke. I absolutely abhorred going to school and I have learned mountains more on my own than I have in any public K-12 education system. Any education system set up after a revolution should focus on encouraging children to love learning for learnings sake, and encourage them to learn about what they really love rather than the factory system we currently have for pumping out mindless drones to be gears in some capitalist machine

[eyedrop]

Generally I'm in favour of state run schools and competing "private schools" with the same funding as state run schools. That would mean the same support from the state and the same financial grants per student as the public schools and no private funding or tuition allowed. Then Steiner schools and such should be able to exist just as well as public schools with no elite schools existing.


There is obviously a problem when students need three months off to recover from the beating they took the previous year. Likewise, there is obviously a problem when very few students actually want to wake up in the morning and go to school.

A large part of students work during the summer months, at least from 16-17 and onwards, they don't have all that time to recover

[Sensible Socialist]

A large part of students work during the summer months, at least from 16-17 and onwards, they don't have all that time to recover
Very true. But the point still stands: it's sad that students need two or three months away from school to be able to tackle the next year.