Christian Leftists

[Stalin Ate My Homework]

Hello, I am not sure if this is the right place to ask, so please forgive me if it is not.

I used to be in a group called 'Christian Leftists' but now it seems to have disappeared. Anyone know what happened?

Thanks in advance and please excuse my ignorance. :)

[ComradeMan]

Hello, I am not sure if this is the right place to ask, so please forgive me if it is not.

I used to be in a group called 'Christian Leftists' but now it seems to have disappeared. Anyone know what happened?

Thanks in advance and please excuse my ignorance. :)

Thanks to Hebrew Hammer :rolleyes:, the Mods/Admins decided to remove all religious based user groups. The Christian Leftist group had been here without any issues for quite a long time if I am not wrong.

[Ocean Seal]

Thanks to Hebrew Hammer :rolleyes:, the Mods/Admins decided to remove all religious based user groups. The Christian Leftist group had been here without any issues for quite a long time if I am not wrong.
Wow they deleted it, that's kind of silly. Was this because of his Nudist Kibbutz group? Can we make another one, if we include everyone?

[Blackburn]

I think the mods decided it was all too much. :laugh:

[Le Socialiste]

That's just ridiculous. People should just make a new one. Religion is, I believe, a private affair. So long as it isn't forced on others, I see no problem with it. As much as we may avoid it, many of our comrades do hold some form of spirituality/faith (myself included). Now, I would never think to exclude others based on their faith, but unfortunately the vast majority of Christians, Jews, Muslims (and many, many others), do. But those who stand against the sort of bigotry and national pride that all too often defines religion(s) shouldn't be ostracized for this.

...

Okay, rant over. That all said, I'm not offended. It seems silly that all faith/spirituality-based groups have been scrapped, but I'm not going to raise a fuss over it.

[thesadmafioso]

It matters not if they are allowed to maintain a group on this site, for they will be swept into the dustbin of history in due time by the shifting economic reality created by Marxism. Religion is an ancient relic which in most every aspect is unfit to serve a purpose of value to the proletarian, and for this reason it will cease to exist with the application of time. It is of no harm to allow for certain elements of religious thought to bolster the immediate cause of Marxism due to this, as it is an alliance which is by its very substance one that cannot be anything but provisional. Of course, philosophical opposition to the role of religion must be maintained in conjunction with this tentative measure, as the idealistic thought of religion is still absolutely opposed to the scientific thought of the materialist dialectic of Marxism.

[Stalin Ate My Homework]

It matters not if they are allowed to maintain a group on this site, for they will be swept into the dustbin of history in due time by the shifting economic reality created by Marxism. Religion is an ancient relic which in most every aspect is unfit to serve a purpose of value to the proletarian, and for this reason it will cease to exist with the application of time. It is of no harm to allow for certain elements of religious thought to bolster the immediate cause of Marxism due to this, as it is an alliance which is by its very substance one that cannot be anything but provisional. Of course, philosophical opposition to the role of religion must be maintained in conjunction with this tentative measure, as the idealistic thought of religion is still absolutely opposed to the scientific thought of the materialist dialectic of Marxism.

You make a strong argument but you have to realise not all of us are dogmatic marxists or religious fundamentalists. Any sectarianism that exists is surely no worse than the various 'tendancy wars'. Like Fidel Castro I see no logical contradiction between the teachings of Christ and Communist ideology.

[Le Socialiste]

It matters not if they are allowed to maintain a group on this site, for they will be swept into the dustbin of history in due time by the shifting economic reality created by Marxism. Religion is an ancient relic which in most every aspect is unfit to serve a purpose of value to the proletarian, and for this reason it will cease to exist with the application of time. It is of no harm to allow for certain elements of religious thought to bolster the immediate cause of Marxism due to this, as it is an alliance which is by its very substance one that cannot be anything but provisional. Of course, philosophical opposition to the role of religion must be maintained in conjunction with this tentative measure, as the idealistic thought of religion is still absolutely opposed to the scientific thought of the materialist dialectic of Marxism.

Human beings have been steeped in various levels of spirituality for centuries, long before faiths such as Christianity, Judaism, and Islam were around. My point being, things like faith, religion, and spirituality aren't going away. For better or for worse (probably the latter), it's a constant aspect of our reality.

[thesadmafioso]

The historical emergence of religion is largely irrelevant to this discussion, for my point in regards to the future of religion was more focused on its material role. Institutionalized religion has long since been an implement of the ruling elite which has been used to placate the wills of the masses. Organized religious thought has always served the purpose of deluding the consciousness of the masses into a state of ignorance through a torrent of metaphysical and moralistic nonsense. This method of oppression is only allowed to exist when material economic suffering is present, and when the dialectical progression of history does away with this through the process of the revolutionary synthesis of class, religion will lose its demand. As religion is a product created to combat the discontent sewn by economic disparity and inequality, it can only be treated as yet another piece of the useless bourgeois superstructure of hegemony; something to be washed away by all encompassing tide of Marxist revolution.

Any supposed "spirituality" left in the wake of a complete and proper workers seizure of power will be tossed aside with the spread of materialist thought and the science which it embodies.

[Le Socialiste]

The historical emergence of religion is largely irrelevant to this discussion, for my point in regards to the future of religion was more focused on its material role. Institutionalized religion has long since been an implement of the ruling elite which has been used to placate the wills of the masses. Organized religious thought has always served the purpose of deluding the consciousness of the masses into a state of ignorance through a torrent of metaphysical and moralistic nonsense. This method of oppression is only allowed to exist when material economic suffering is present, and when the dialectical progression of history does away with this through the process of the revolutionary synthesis of class, religion will lose its demand. As religion is a product created to combat the discontent sewn by economic disparity and inequality, it can only be treated as yet another piece of the useless bourgeois superstructure of hegemony; something to be washed away by all encompassing tide of Marxist revolution.

Any supposed "spirituality" left in the wake of a complete and proper workers seizure of power will be tossed aside with the spread of dialectical materialism.


Ah, I gotcha. For the record, I agree. I'm no fan of organized religion; in fact I'm quite opposed to it.

[Stalin Ate My Homework]

How exactly would you set up another group anyway? I'm sure theres a demand for it, possibly set up an all encompassing one called 'Religious Socialists'?

[thesadmafioso]

How exactly would you set up another group anyway? I'm sure theres a demand for it, possibly set up an all encompassing one called 'Religious Socialists'?

Click on the groups tab at the top of the RevLeft site banner, from there you can find the option to create a group in the lower left side of the page. It should be right below the section for your groups.

Of course, I would not suggest that you do that if the mods have already decided against allowing groups of that sort.

[Hebrew Hammer]

I killed it like Jesus.

:rolleyes:

[ZrianKobani]

I'd say I was sad but after I got restricted I lost any ability to get attached; didn't seem like it had much activity but still sucks:crying:

[hatzel]

How exactly would you set up another group anyway? I'm sure theres a demand for it, possibly set up an all encompassing one called 'Religious Socialists'?

This may be acceptable. I could consult the admins about it, if there is a certain level of interest...

[Le Socialiste]

If you were to make another group, I wouldn't limit it solely to 'religious' socialists. Some might be spiritual, but not religious (like yours truly). I don't know, just figured I'd toss that out there.

[Desperado]

the shifting economic reality created by Marxism

Marxism causes the shifting economic reality? I was under the impression that it was the class struggle. Oh no, I forgot, if the prophet Marx hadn't been born on the seventh day then the proletariat would not have been enlightened to the holy dialectical cause.

[Blake's Baby]

Yeah, don't trust those beardy Jewish communists. Marx, and Jesus, bloody troublemakers that's what they are.

[Orange Juche]

I killed it like Jesus.

:rolleyes:

Yeah, but he came back three days later.

[Orange Juche]

This may be acceptable. I could consult the admins about it, if there is a certain level of interest...

Level of interest noted.

[hatzel]

How exactly would you set up another group anyway? I'm sure theres a demand for it, possibly set up an all encompassing one called 'Religious Socialists'?This may be acceptable. I could consult the admins about it, if there is a certain level of interest...

The BA (well, CotR :lol:) have told me that the vote that lead to the removal of the Christian Leftists group, along with the Nudist Kibbutz and other such groups, has prohibited the creation of all religious groups on this site, be they exclusive (like the original groups) or universal (like the proposed group). Therefore, I feel I should let you all know that the proposed group would not be allowed, and any attempt by anybody to create such a group will lead to the group being deleted. So it totally wouldn't be worth the effort.

In lieu of a group, I suggest that those who would have been interested in joining dedicate some time to making the religion sub-forum that you currently find yourself in into something that's actually worth reading, rather than the stinking pile of atheist vs. theist 'debate' crap that every thread usually becomes...perhaps an interesting theological topic or two, or some discussion about explicitly leftist interpretations of religion and spirituality. Is that really so much to ask? :rolleyes:

[Orange Juche]

The BA (well, CotR :lol:) have told me that the vote that lead to the removal of the Christian Leftists group, along with the Nudist Kibbutz and other such groups, has prohibited the creation of all religious groups on this site, be they exclusive (like the original groups) or universal (like the proposed group). Therefore, I feel I should let you all know that the proposed group would not be allowed, and any attempt by anybody to create such a group will lead to the group being deleted. So it totally wouldn't be worth the effort.

Bollocks.

[Le Socialiste]

Is there any way to appeal their decision on not admitting the proposed group? I just think there's no reason for not allowing our comrades who do hold religious and spiritual beliefs (myself included, again) to create an all-inclusive group on Revleft. No Christian Leftists, no Muslim, Jewish, (insert religion here) Leftists - just a pan-spirituality/religious leftist group.

But if there's no possible way the admins. and mods will hear of it, then I guess your suggestion works too. It's funny, I haven't really cared about these groups before, but now that they've been deleted it just seems like there must be some way to work around this (or through it, whichever).

[bcbm]

Is there any way to appeal their decision on not admitting the proposed group?

nope


I just think there's no reason for not allowing our comrades who do hold religious and spiritual beliefs (myself included, again) to create an all-inclusive group on Revleft. No Christian Leftists, no Muslim, Jewish, (insert religion here) Leftists - just a pan-spirituality/religious leftist group. the ba's line is basically that the revolutionary left and thus the board must maintain an "anti-theist" position and having any sort of religious groups contradicts this apparently. there is currently a "mysticism and communism" group that could maybe fulfill such a function, though by mentioning it i probably just doomed it.


But if there's no possible way the admins. and mods will hear of it, then I guess your suggestion works too. It's funny, I haven't really cared about these groups before, but now that they've been deleted it just seems like there must be some way to work around this (or through it, whichever).these groups were never a problem and most existed for years with the ba not even knowing they existed. it was only some hubbub around the jewish group which unfortunately brought them all into the crosshairs.

its bullshit but thats life i guess

[Belleraphone]

I don't see why you have to ban religious groups. Many religious people are leftists. The more people we have on our side, the better. If we're going to allow people who worship the dictatorship that was the USSR, then I don't see why we can't allow religious people.

[Black Sheep]

What it was deleted!? :scared:

Good riddance.

[bcbm]

I don't see why you have to ban religious groups. Many religious people are leftists.

me either, i argued against the ban.

[Le Libérer]

As close as it was, the vote to remove all religious groups passed by the mods. There was very convincing arguments by both sides of the debate but the poll to remove all religious groups did pass.

If you want to make threads in the religion forum about religion and there isnt any preaching involved in that thread, its perfectly acceptable.

Hope that helps.

[hatzel]

the ba's line is basically that the revolutionary left and thus the board must maintain an "anti-theist" position

And there I was thinking that "[p]ersonal beliefs/positions on religion/spirituality should not affect an individuals overall status on RevLeft" :tt2:

(And yes I realise that I'm conveniently cutting off half that sentence and quoting totally out of context and everything, but I just don't give a D!)

EDIT: should just point out that I couldn't actually care less which groups are and aren't allowed, as I don't use them, post in them, read them, anything like that. I just question the validity of claiming that their prohibition is due to the explicitly anti-theistic position of the board, whilst it is also claimed that one's (a)theism should not affect their status on the site. It seems like a contradiction to claim to oppose something, whilst also claiming to tolerate it...but still I don't care, because I'd much prefer to see this sub-forum spilling over with interesting content, and the removal of religious groups may actually help to achieve that, if threads which would otherwise be started in such groups are instead started here...

[Hoipolloi Cassidy]

Celui qui croyait au ciel
Celui qui n'y croyait pas
Tous deux adoraient la belle
Prisonnière des soldats.
[...]
Quand les blés sont sous la grêle
Fou qui fait le délicat
Fou qui songe à ses querelles
Au coeur du commun combat.

[Translation: "The one who believed in heaven/the one who didn't/both loved the beautiful woman/jailed by the soldiers/When the wheat is under a hailstorm/he's a fool who acts picky/a fool who thinks of his own quarrels/at the heart of the common struggle.]

- Louis Aragon, French poet, Communist and Surrealist. (Poem written while he was in the Resistance).

[Stalin Ate My Homework]

Thanks mods for answering my questions. I cant say I agree with the decision but it is understandable. :)

P.s If ever the decsion to block religious groups is lifted I'd definately be interested in joining such a group.

[Ocean Seal]

nope

the ba's line is basically that the revolutionary left and thus the board must maintain an "anti-theist" position and having any sort of religious groups contradicts this apparently. there is currently a "mysticism and communism" group that could maybe fulfill such a function, though by mentioning it i probably just doomed it.

First this, and then banning/restricting us. I wonder if we could make an open group dedicated to the discussion of religious themes without preaching for all members so long as they didn't troll.

[Blackburn]

As close as it was, the vote to remove all religious groups passed by the mods. There was very convincing arguments by both sides of the debate but the poll to remove all religious groups did pass.

If you want to make threads in the religion forum about religion and there isnt any preaching involved in that thread, its perfectly acceptable.

Hope that helps.

You know... I'm kinda soft on religious issues..but as a functioning Agnostic I agree with the decision.

Finally one forum where the Reactionary spirit is not expressed through Religious bigotry.

[bcbm]

yes groups of leftists who happen to have a belief in some god or church is "religious bigotry" :rolleyes:

[Le Libérer]

yes groups of leftists who happen to have a belief in some god or church is "religious bigotry" :rolleyes:

Bcbm are you religious? If so what faith?

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

[Who?]

As close as it was, the vote to remove all religious groups passed by the mods. There was very convincing arguments by both sides of the debate but the poll to remove all religious groups did pass.

If you want to make threads in the religion forum about religion and there isnt any preaching involved in that thread, its perfectly acceptable.

Hope that helps.

I understand that religion hasn't generally been embraced by the left. I myself am an atheist. However I didn't notice any particularly reactionary behavior on the part of our religious members. I know for a fact that the Christian leftist group (or whatever the name was) was open to users of all faiths. So I don't really see the problem, the group wasn't a haven for reactionaries, it was just a place where religious leftists could meet and discuss issues that may have caught some heat in the main forums.

I mean, I'm a Maoist and I'm sure that more people from my tendency's user group have been banned for supposed "reactionary behavior" (which I won't get into right now) than from the Christian group.

[Hebrew Hammer]

I wish to apologize to the Christians, I feel like I rained on your parade.

I never understood this issue regarding religious user groups really.

[Blackburn]

yes groups of leftists who happen to have a belief in some god or church is "religious bigotry" :rolleyes:

Ahh you failed to grasp the context I was using that term in.

Congrats!

[Dumb]

How about a group, "Spiritual and Non-Spiritual Leftists"?

[Blake's Baby]

'Spiritual and non-Spiritual Leftists' can be shortened to 'Leftists' can't it?

[Dumb]

Or "Leftists who are spiritual, scientific, both, or neither"!

[bcbm]

i think trying to make a group that tries to squeeze through the ban won't be especially effective and it is also probably pointless to argue against the decision here. even if it could be voted on again i doubt it would be for at least six months


Bcbm are you religious? If so what faith?

no i'm an atheist


Ahh you failed to grasp the context I was using that term in.

maybe you could explain instead of being obnoxious? given that you previous sentence was applauding the decision to ban religious groups, it seems pretty contextual to make a connection.

[ZrianKobani]

I wish to apologize to the Christians, I feel like I rained on your parade.

It's cool, broseph. I don't think it was intentional and as a fan of your posts, I don't take it personally.

[Cleansing Conspiratorial Revolutionary Flame]

Abrahamic Religious Discussion Group (http://www.revleft.com/vb/group.php?groupid=769)

[bcbm]

religious discussion is only allowed on this board as per the new rule, your group is going to get closed down by a global mod/admin i am afraid

[Le Libérer]

Abrahamic Religious Discussion Group (http://www.revleft.com/vb/group.php?groupid=769)
I have deleted that group. Everyone in this thread is aware of the rule there will no longer be religious groups on revleft.

So if any of you make another one, you will get an infraction.

Thread closed.