Some questions about Anarchy

[Belleraphone]

Let's take for example anarcho-syndicalism.

How would jobs be assigned, how would public needs like hospitals be ran?

Would there be private property? And what would unite the communes together in case of a foreign attack? What about research at Universities?

And lastly, is there a good book about how society was managed in Anarchist Spain? I know these seem like pretty novice questions and I apologize, I am a new user on these boards. I am currently reading into Anarchism and am in no way criticizing it.

[Sensible Socialist]

Let's take for example anarcho-syndicalism.

How would jobs be assigned, how would public needs like hospitals be ran?
First of all, it's important to understand that "jobs" would not hold the same meaning as they do under capitalism. Today, people work all day, every day at one single activity. Bosses extract as much value out of a worker as they can, through the division of labor. However, jobs after capitalism would consist of people performing actions they enjoy.

Maybe I want to work at a museum, while also being a part-time instructor at a school. That's entirely possible. People perform work they enjoy.

For work that isn't as enjoyable, everyone could put in a bit of their time to help the community. For example, everyone could put in an hour or two a week cleaning up a building (like a hospital) or a park. Together, work would be completed much faster, and with a group it's more enjoyable.


Would there be private property? And what would unite the communes together in case of a foreign attack? What about research at Universities?
There is no private property in the sense of the means of production. No one person would own factories or stores. Property is owned by the community. In case of attack, community-based defense forces, militias if you will, would consist of trained citizens who unite on a larger scale in case of a dangerous emergency. Research at Universities would be conducted by those knowledgeable in those fields. Not very different than today, with the exception of funding no longer being an issue.

[ColonelCossack]

In the end, I think, communists and anarchists have the same sort of aim- we both want the sort of society mentioned above by sensible socialist; a classless society free from exploitation. The only difference is how we're going to get there- Anarchists want the immediate abolition of the state, and communists (leninists in particular) want the state to wither away.

I'm not entirely sure, because I know relatively little about anarchism/anarchy, so please correct me if i'm wrong.:lol:

[Le Socialiste]

Here's two books I've found really helpful regarding Anarchist Spain (I use this term loosely, for numerous reasons):

1. The Anarchist Collectives: Workers' Self-Management in the Spanish Revolution 1936-1939
http://www.amazon.com/Anarchist-Collectives-Self-Management-Revolution-1936-1939/dp/0919618200/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=I1EWJJUCRZDZ4C&colid=16UJAWGGUZW5T

2. Anarchists In The Spanish Revolution
http://www.amazon.com/Anarchists-Spanish-Revolution-Jose-Peirats/dp/0900384530/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=I166UK9A6202B5&colid=16UJAWGGUZW5T

[Ele'ill]

Just touching on the idea of 'jobs' for a minute, specifically 'shitty jobs', I'd be one of the first people to volunteer for 'sewer duty' and other such horrors. Why? Because it's extremely important for everyone and I like stepping up and taking on those types of tasks.

[Belleraphone]

Thanks for the replies.
When I said private property, I meant my own house/apartment. Would I still have that? And what about domestic security. Some versions of anarchism say we won't have any policemen, so how will we stop criminals?

Also, did living standards increase when Spain went anarcho-syndicalist? And Lesocialiste, why do you use that term loosely? Are you saying Spain wasn't anarchist?

[Hivemind]

Yeah, most people under capitalism look at "shitty" jobs, for example sewer duty as stated above, with disdain, and they look at jobs such as being a doctor as some really important thing. What most people dont realize is that both are extremely important, and both need to be done.

However, with us being at the knee of the exponential boom of technology, I foresee the ability to automate a lot of tasks that people don't really want to do, which I'm all for, since it gives people the freedom to not do things they would not like. That being said, there are still going to be people who jump at the opportunity, because it would help the community a lot.

EDIT: I'd write more but I'm on my phone and it's annoying to write a lot on the topic. I have much more to say though. Maybe when I get home.

[nuisance]

anarchy negates all systems, including the sewer system.

[Tim Cornelis]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/25020337/The-Anarchist-Collective-Sam-Dolgoff

The free version, you should never have to pay for dead authors.

"How would jobs be assigned"

They wouldn't, assigning jobs implies an authority decides for you. Everyone would just do the jobs they like on the condition they have the intellectual and physical capacity in doing so.

I don't see why University Research is an issue to you, why it's so significant. I guess it would just continue the same as today.

The workers of the hospital would decide how it's run, workers' self-management.

More info:

http://anarchism.pageabode.com/afaq/secIcon.html

[ColonelCossack]

Some versions of anarchism say we won't have any policemen, so how will we stop criminals? ?

I've heard some people say that in the society we're all aiming for people wouldn't really want to be criminals, because all the crimes brought about by capitalism (theft etc) would cease to happen. Having said that, though, what about people with psychopathic mental disorders etc?

[Leftsolidarity]

anarchy negates all systems, including the sewer system.
lol what?

[Tim Cornelis]

The existence of a security force will be depend on the degree of its necessity. This is why mutualists have argued for 'private' security cooperatives whilst anarchist communists reject these (mutualism will have more crime than communism).

It is highly likely that the number of committed (property, petty) theft under anarcho-communism will exceed the number of solved property and petty crimes.

For the rest a volunteer neighbourhood watch consisting of members of the neighbourhood and interacting with them as well as with council courts will maintain security, I suppose.

[Tim Cornelis]

Thanks for the replies.
When I said private property, I meant my own house/apartment. Would I still have that? And what about domestic security. Some versions of anarchism say we won't have any policemen, so how will we stop criminals?

Also, did living standards increase when Spain went anarcho-syndicalist? And Lesocialiste, why do you use that term loosely? Are you saying Spain wasn't anarchist?

I think most anarchists think housing should be common property (see squatters), however common property does not mean the community decides how your house is furnished. It means everyone has the right to use a house if it is not already used by someone else (use rights come to replace property rights). Thus, it is still your private possession and you decide how to furnish it, but if you don't live in it or others also live in it, it is no longer your private possession.

[Sensible Socialist]

Thanks for the replies.
When I said private property, I meant my own house/apartment. Would I still have that? And what about domestic security. Some versions of anarchism say we won't have any policemen, so how will we stop criminals?

You can still have personal living quarters, private space. You're not going to be forced to live in a hut with twelve other people. That said, I'd like to envision housing as developing into a more communal feel, with connected housing that protects individual privacy while at the same time fostering a communal atmospher.

I'll move on to crime. First of all, crime would decrease in an anarchist society. Most crimes are caused by poverty, poor conditions, and a failing education system that creates an angry working class population. There wouldn't be rampant crime. However, for the crimes that do occur, community law enforcement could be in place. But the key is that members of such organization are accountable to the community, and the job of protecting the community is spread equally to all members of the community.

[Kadir Ateş]

My question for anarchists, particularly anarcho-syndicalists is their fear of "the party". If they mean strictly vanguardism, I could understand, but it seems as though they have their own sacred cow when it comes to revolutionary syndicalism, which I find mirrors the enthusiasm and support Leninists have for the vanguard party. Why is this?

[Belleraphone]

Thanks for the replies guys. Although I would like to know if the anarcho-syndicalists in Spain were true anarchists, and did their living conditions increase for the short time that Anarchy was present.

[Leftsolidarity]

Thanks for the replies guys. Although I would like to know if the anarcho-syndicalists in Spain were true anarchists, and did their living conditions increase for the short time that Anarchy was present.

I do not know a whole lot of the living conditions but I don't know of anyone who has ever claimed they weren't true anarchists. I look at them with pride and respect yet I don't even called myself an anarchist anymore. A thing to keep in mind about "living conditions" and all that is that they were in the middle of a civil war so conditions were bound to be tough.

[Belleraphone]

I do not know a whole lot of the living conditions but I don't know of anyone who has ever claimed they weren't true anarchists. I look at them with pride and respect yet I don't even called myself an anarchist anymore. A thing to keep in mind about "living conditions" and all that is that they were in the middle of a civil war so conditions were bound to be tough.

Why aren't you an anarchist anymore? Just wondering.

How would national projects like a Space program work? And advancing technology.

[Leftsolidarity]

Why aren't you an anarchist anymore? Just wondering.


I'm a Marxist but my beliefs are very borderline anarchist. I just don't agree with the idea of destroying the state and capitalism at the same time. I think a socialist state should look like the Paris Commune.


How would national projects like a Space program work?

I don't think it would but a group of people might figure something out.


And advancing technology.

That is very general but people have always been inventing things.

From the second chapter of the Communist Manifesto:

"It has been objected that upon the abolition of private property, all work will cease, and universal laziness will overtake us.
According to this, bourgeois society ought long ago to have gone to the dogs through sheer idleness; for those of its members who work, acquire nothing, and those who acquire anything do not work. The whole of this objection is but another expression of the tautology: that there can no longer be any wage-labour when there is no longer any capital."